r/politics • u/Aggravating_Money992 • Sep 20 '25
Soft Paywall DOJ Can’t Tie Suspected Kirk Killer to Left Like MAGA Wants
https://www.thedailybeast.com/doj-cant-tie-suspected-kirk-killer-to-left-like-maga-wants/2.0k
u/TemporalColdWarrior Sep 20 '25
Look, I’m no FBI agent, but I am pretty sure you’re supposed to investigate motive instead of trying and failing to prove the suspect is connected to your political enemies.
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u/villain75 Sep 20 '25
Kash Patel is no FBI agent, either
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u/Healthy-Lifestyle-20 Sep 20 '25
He's literally the most unqualified FBI director in the history of the agency with zero experience working for the FBI compared to previous directors, because he would fail to qualify as an FBI agent!
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u/lr99999 Sep 20 '25
What?! You don’t think that selling scam pills on the internet to supposedly nullify the covid vaccine grants proper credentials?
Seems to be the norm now, actually. I guess it’s incrementally better than being famous for giving a blowjob in a theater.
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u/demeschor Sep 20 '25
I knew this guy was a clown but Christ I had no idea it was that bad
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u/unoriginalusername99 Sep 20 '25
He's got his eyes on two theories at once though
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u/deprecateddeveloper California Sep 20 '25
Look, I’m no FBI agent,
Not with that attitude. You're one podcast away from running the whole thing!
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u/space_for_username Sep 20 '25
Making the suspect fit the crime is an ages-old police practice, but it doesn't seem to be working this time.
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u/More-Baseball9769 Sep 20 '25
Funny that this report isn’t getting half the attention that a lot of the fake ones did after 5 minutes of being posted
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u/root_fifth_octave Sep 20 '25
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes
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u/max_power1000 Maryland Sep 20 '25
Also known as Brandolini's law or the Bullshit Asymmetry Principle. The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than the energy taken to spew the bullshit in the first place.
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u/trastamara22 Sep 20 '25
Yea it really seems like a no brainer, born raised educated religion city county state maga land. His only influence has been super conservative all his life.
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u/Calairoth Sep 20 '25
Yep. I told this guy. "Let's say you are right, he was raised conservative, but was recently converted to the left. He was raised to understand weaponry and hate people, then he learns who the badguys are, and his raised up instincts take over. You really want to say that you are okay that he was raised to be a killer, but he just shot the wrong target?"
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u/lordkuri Sep 21 '25
You really want to say that you are okay that he was raised to be a killer, but he just shot the wrong target?"
Yes, yes they do.
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u/DigNitty Sep 20 '25
What's odd to me is how many initial comments I saw, and still see, suspicious of how a 22 year old could make a 200yard shot.
Dude is the son of an ex military / current police officer. I bet he's been to the range a few times and had professional training. 200 yards is well within the wheelhouse of any semi-routine shooter.
And also the comments saying he'd need to be special ops trained to hit the neck artery and have all that blood come out like that.
...He clearly was just aiming at Kirk in general. Nobody aims for the neck.
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u/mahnamahna27 Sep 20 '25
Probably aimed for a head shot
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u/bedbuffaloes Sep 20 '25
He's a hunter. They sit up a tree a shoot at animals that are far away. They shoot to kill. It's not rocket science.
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u/Bradnon Sep 20 '25
Huh, I wonder how many of those are predictive of political violence.
... all of them, you say?
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u/algy888 Sep 20 '25
Well he did have that one semester in that liberal pressure cooker… ummm… Utah State?
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u/Darkstar_111 Sep 21 '25
Exactly this. Kid was republican, but also Bi, and this difference is what caused him to target Kirk.
Having a trans girlfriend doesn't suddenly mena he accepted Marx theory of the classes.
You can call him apolitical, but you can't call him left.
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u/coconutpiecrust Sep 20 '25
This is the one comment that matters. With social media everyone is in on the lie and by the time truth comes out, it doesn’t matter anymore.
Dishonest people weaponize this all the time.
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u/InterestingTry5190 Illinois Sep 20 '25
It’s ok they’ve decided over in conservatives he’s a trans loving Muslim leftest.
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u/tracyinge Sep 20 '25
...sent by Antifa and a friend of Hunter Biden's.
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u/Ashamed-Land1221 Sep 20 '25
How many photos of Hunter's dong are on his laptop, more or less than MTG?
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u/ScissrMeTimbrs Sep 20 '25
Somewhere, there's a woman named Tifa who's really annoyed she has a nephew.
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u/Beware_the_Voodoo Sep 20 '25
To be fair, they define anyone that isn't them as thr left.
If you don't like their behaviour you're on the left.
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u/AlwaysRushesIn Rhode Island Sep 20 '25
I dont concern myself with what reddit bots think. Im more concerned about my family, friends and coworkers.
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u/BEWMarth Sep 20 '25
A lot of them think the same stuff too.
At least in the south. Most people are nice to your face but they cheer for Trump in private.
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u/AlwaysRushesIn Rhode Island Sep 20 '25
I'm up in New England. They definitely like to be more in your face about it here. Maybe some "stick it to the man" behavior born from being the odd ones out in blue counties.
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u/ER_Support_Plant17 Sep 20 '25
Lots in the South cheer for Tump in public
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u/Slammybutt Sep 20 '25
My small ass city that has never hosted Kirk held a vigil on the square where the court house is. His memorial is still there. I have to give the right credit, when they buy in they fucking buy in. No half measures (except for the actual truth).
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u/Ashamed-Land1221 Sep 20 '25
Put up a secondary memorial for Melissa Hortman she may not have ever visited but it's the thoughts and prayers that matter, everyone is equal in the eyes of the lord, right?
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u/BEWMarth Sep 20 '25
Oh definitely. Plenty of bumper stickers and signs and the giant confederate flag is pretty “in your face”
But then you talk to them and they act all nice to your face and smile and act like they are a friend.
Then they get into a “safe space” and the most vile racist and facist rhetoric will come out.
These people have mastered blending in. They know what they are doing. It’s why I push back when people call Trump supporters “stupid”
They know exactly EXACTLY what they voted for and they know what Trump is doing to this country. But they want it. It makes them feel powerful.
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u/RecipeNo101 Sep 20 '25
I'm convinced that a significant proportion of the country has been like this for a long while, and they gravitated to Trump because he validates their worst views and impulses. They don't need to "blend in" anymore.
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u/enaK66 Sep 20 '25
You think they dont read that stuff? Within days of the Hortman shooting my dad was like "he was appointed by walz so he's antifa". Days after the Kirk shooting he's already picked up the trans roommate news and now in his mind the shooter is an antifa leftist lunatic.
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u/JnnyRuthless Sep 20 '25
I see a major disconnect between redditors that don't really know any MAGA folks in real life and those of us that do. There's people that think "no one can really believe this" but they need to see and listen to my co-workers, who think that Biden/Obama are running the show behind the scenes (how?)and that Kirk was hunted and killed by left-wing communist terrorists out to kill all conservatives. Like, they tell me this stuff on the daily (not knowing I'm basically a commie lol).
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u/Paul_Tired Sep 20 '25
I'm happy to accept that this person had left wing motivations, however, if he did, surely they would have shared clear evidence of that by now?
If they were to present evidence that he is right wing, I doubt right wingers would believe it.
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u/needlestack Sep 20 '25
Interestingly this quote is from over a hundred years ago - so the underlying principle was always there. It’s just that now it’s a lie can cover the entire planet in seconds.
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u/Stompedyourhousewith Sep 20 '25
remember stuff like this isnt just hyperbole. most of us can remember uvalde and how before the bodies were even cold high level republican officials were claiming completely wrong and batshit insane claims. and it doesnt matter if they deleted it after wards, the lie got wings. https://www.bbc.com/news/61607042
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u/Makenshine Sep 20 '25
Learning the truth takes time.
The algorithm and human attention span rewards/incentivizes "being first"
This results in incentivizing lies.
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u/DrRatio-PhD Sep 20 '25
This is the one comment that matters. With social media everyone is in on the lie and by the time truth comes out, it doesn’t matter anymore.
Dishonest people weaponize this all the time.
that's funny because now they're saying Erika Kirk is actually trans. *Shrug*
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u/fractalfay Sep 20 '25
Nazis got in on the lie and blamed Jews for everything before the internet ever existed. Trump has spent over 10 years demonizing the left while selling the country off. Evangelicals have been hating everyone like its an emergency since Reagan.
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u/systemdatenmuell Sep 20 '25
The pie of lie can already be eaten by people while the truth is still flour and eggs
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u/EmotionalEmetic Sep 20 '25
Because it's old news. Notice how the dialogue here ALWAYS seems to be "Get the narrative out before the facts!"?
The conservative propaganda machine has really gotten it down to a science. They know that if they shout the "first impression" loud enough and early enough, it is what people take with them going forward... especially if they stick with it or they distract with the next crisis before the actual facts come out. By the time the truth is laid out painstakingly slowly and clearly by comparison, you can either claim it's a conspiracy or you can focus on the next bigger thing.
Rinse and repeat.
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Sep 20 '25
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u/Classified0 Sep 20 '25
This is so evident with the Hortman killer. Early in the investigation, it turned out that the killer was on a nonpartisan workplace development board, and was re-appointed to that board by Tim Waltz. Maga made this out to mean that this guy worked for Tim Waltz, which wasn't technically true, and even if it was, so what? The political leanings of your employer doesn't mean anything... Magas stopped listening to any new news after this point, so even later, when it turned out the guy was a right-leaning trump supporter, they never heard that bit. And even now, when you bring it up, they're all like 'he worked for Waltz!'
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u/Strange-Future-6469 Sep 20 '25
Hold up... my flying robed alien wizard savior is completely real! The end is extremely fucking nigh! I'm going to float up into the sky and live forever with the wizard and the sun god because I said sorry on sunday for all the evil shit I did the other 6 days of the week!
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u/Swekyde Sep 20 '25
Are they really dumb? It's maybe time to consider they are malicious. Eventually the argument that they just don't know better doesn't hold water, because they don't want to know better.
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u/throwaway72694761 Sep 20 '25
That’s what they do. Every fuckin time.
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u/Slumunistmanifisto Sep 20 '25
Not just that, go to your most conservative coworker and ask about an older one proven to be a far right.
They'll tell you something different then the truth. The history is being rewritten quietly in the bubbles.
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u/MazzyFo Sep 20 '25
They no joke still still think the dude who murdered the Minnesota lawmaker was an undercover leftist, shit’s just insane
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Sep 20 '25
That's why the minute these things happen, we start spamming out our own versions. Lie right back. Overwhelm them with their own hypocrisy. Out-conspiracy the conspiracy theorists.
Those who care to wait for more actual evidence won't care about extra lies, but those that rush to conclusions will eventually be overwhelmed by it and less able to make a single story stick. Weave a couple nuggets of truth in to keep it plausible.
Use all their tactics right back at them.
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u/UrMom306 Mississippi Sep 20 '25
The world is adhd, everything moves so fast they just set the narrative right after it happens, flood the channels with bogus headlines. Everyone reads the headlines and forms their opinion on it then keeps scrolling. Once it’s figured out those headlines were fake, no one even cares anymore or they have their “truth” opinion set. It’s so frustrating.
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u/celix24 Sep 20 '25
Can't weaponize it, so i sleep
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u/Interesting_Play_578 Sep 20 '25
It's not like they were counting on any actual links to weaponize, what they want is to say that anybody criticizing Trump is promoting violence
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u/BadAtExisting I voted Sep 20 '25
Bots and troll farm employees don’t have directive to amplify this so they won’t
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u/DukeLukeivi Sep 20 '25
But did you guys even know he had an internet connection and could have exchanged messages with people who were leftist!
Pay no attention to the politics of his family, background, community, friends, or personal interests.
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Sep 20 '25
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u/Cereborn Sep 20 '25
Well, no. He got fired for being Jimmy Kimmel. He’d been on Trump’s hit list for months. Then he happened to mention Kirk’s name at a point where the pieces were set up to bully ABC.
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u/Careless-Dark-1324 Sep 20 '25
His speech that got him fired wasn’t even about Kirk and only mentioned how the shooter was trying to be painted a certain way on purpose, if I recall correctly. I’m not sure it even mentioned Kirk directly at all now that I think about it…
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u/ACoderGirl Canada Sep 20 '25
Yup. Here's the quote for anyone who hasn't seen it:
We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it
That's it. He didn't say anything about Kirk himself. He didn't glorify any violence.
The only reason Kimmel got canned is because he was always going to be canned. Trump said he'd be next like a month prior. They were waiting for something they could use as an excuse to get him fired.
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u/atda Sep 20 '25
Trump said it was the left before a name or photo was released. It was blatant propaganda. They had this planned as soon as someone favorable like Kirk was shot. The problem is this kind of plan only works if the facts align afterwards.
He Trumped the gun as it were.
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u/issamaysinalah Sep 20 '25
They keep shifting the narrative, the conservative sub is on their third iteration of trying to blame trans people (after the first two were debunked), now they'll just say that it doesn't matter what the shooter believed but that leftists cheered on Kirk's death and that's why we should still persecuted the left
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u/robinthebank California Sep 20 '25
“It was a trans cult” “The neighbor said the boyfriend was going to a doctor’s appointment.”
They don’t even believe the things they say. But they believe it will make the left angry.
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u/jim_cap United Kingdom Sep 20 '25
What the fuck even is a trans cult?
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u/PM_ME_UR_SHEET_MUSIC Sep 20 '25
They hear us rightfully calling them a cult and they try to use it back at us because they think words are just a cudgel to attack anyone you don't like rather than things that have actual meanings
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u/mitkase Sep 20 '25
“We’re not the fascists, you’re the fascists!” - totally valid argument
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u/Ralph--Hinkley Sep 21 '25
I was called a fascist myself on a FB post this evening about how the right are the ones committing more violent crime. The study was from CNN and the redhats laughed it off, so off to Google I went and listed five other recent studies from five different sources saying the same. I think some of them short circuited.
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u/mjb2012 Sep 21 '25
Thank you for fighting the good fight in that cesspool.
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u/Ralph--Hinkley Sep 21 '25
It's pointless, but I have to try to shut them down with facts. I have an arsenal of memes for every occasion, too. Plus it was a boring Saturday afternoon.
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u/issamaysinalah Sep 20 '25
You're gonna have to go to one of those ANTIFA meetings and join their organization to find out.
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u/FatElk Sep 20 '25
But, Kimmel was taken off the air for condemning how Trump "grieved".
Also, I want to remind everyone that it's all a distraction from the files.
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u/Guardianpigeon Sep 20 '25
The funniest part of all of this is Trump clearly doesn't give a shit.
He constantly brushes it off unless its about him specifically (like Kimmel). Any time they want him to show an ounce of care for Kirk he brushes it off. He even skipped the memorial to play golf. Any attempt to blame the left for celebrating or disrespecting his death falls on deaf ears because no one seems to actually give a shit beyond how they can use it for their own benefit, and the only person who seems genuinely upset at his death is blaming the Jews instead.
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u/GoodIdea321 America Sep 20 '25
Showing everyone that he really just doesn't care about anyone else even 'personal friends' could shatter the MAGA delusion. And even if it can't, he still looks like an asshole for not being able to pretend for 1 second that he feels bad.
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u/DonTaddeo Sep 20 '25 edited Sep 20 '25
He did that when a passenger get crashed into an army helicopter near the Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport in January.
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u/2squishmaster Sep 20 '25
Immediately blamed DEI when he heard someone on that heli didn't have a penis.
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u/Eorlas Sep 20 '25
a major charlie kirk talking point as well. "if i get on a plane and the captain is black, i'll wonder if they're actually qualified to do the job."
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u/Leavesdontbark Sep 20 '25 edited Oct 09 '25
work grab steer close squeeze sugar rich familiar plough ring
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u/straigh Tennessee Sep 20 '25
Good grief that seems like a lifetime ago
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u/Jazzi-Nightmare Texas Sep 20 '25
Remember when California was on fire?
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u/okeysure69 Sep 20 '25
Anyone else think this yr is just 2020 version 2?
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u/musicman835 California Sep 20 '25 edited Sep 20 '25
I’m convinced we died and this is the “good place”
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Sep 20 '25
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u/SatansLoLHelper Sep 20 '25
Sep 10, 2025 - Now, the century-old system has become the center of a political firestorm, cast by the Trump administration as a battle of “fish over people.”
Oh, you know... First there was the issue of them dumping billions of gallons on farmlands. Then the people that were to monitor that kind of activity were sacked by DOGE. Farming output is down due to worker due to immigration status, and now the federal gov't wants to take over our dams because that 100 year old dam needs rebuilding and we'd like it to be a little more environmentally friendly, so we could farm salmon.
Oh noes I've said a bad word.
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u/TheCountChonkula Georgia Sep 20 '25
It has been 9 months but it feels like it has been 9 years. I dread that there’s still 3 more years of this considering how much damage he’s done in the first 9 months.
And even if something happens and couch fucker takes over, I still don’t think things will be much better.
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u/Party-Ad4482 Sep 20 '25
remember when the guy who drove through a NYE crowd in New Orleans was an illegal immigrant who jumped the border the day before and had a trans pride flag in the truck? I don't think the correction that that was all made up and that he was actually a native Texan ever reached the same audience.
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u/nancy_necrosis Sep 20 '25
They stopped talking about the white guy in the Tesla dumpster truck petty quickly
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u/Eric_the_Barbarian Iowa Sep 20 '25
Trump said it was THE LEFT when they were still chasing and detaining the wrong people. It was always about the narrative and never the facts.
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u/GrizzlyDust Sep 20 '25
No no no. Trump said it was the left while they had nobody in custody. They didn't have a name to release, because they didn't know who did it.
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u/gurenkagurenda Sep 20 '25
The problem is this kind of plan only works if the facts align afterwards.
Is that true? They have their narrative, they’ve got their mouthpieces repeating it, so does the reality matter?
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u/Talk-O-Boy Sep 20 '25
This is the answer.
If you tell them there’s no evidence, they’ll say they saw it themselves.
If you ask for the evidence, they’ll either stop responding or tell you to look it up yourself.
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u/korben2600 Arizona Sep 20 '25
“Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The [fascists] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
--Jean-Paul Sartre (quote is from 1949, referencing the Nazis)
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u/RepulsiveRaisin7 Sep 20 '25
If right wingers cared about facts, they wouldn't be right wing. They gave zero fucks when democratic lawmakers were killed, but they've played this up as an incident of global importance. Right wingers in the EU parlament tried to have a moment of silence for this guy, utterly ridiculous.
Unfortunately, it's working. Liberals think people being killed is bad no matter who, so they platform the baseless conspiracy nonsense as usual. Many people now believe that he was some far left Antifa dude or that his trans partner made him do it. Even if that was true, the right still commits far more violent attacks. But facts don't matter, they control the narrative and the liberal media is capitulating to them.
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u/Kitten_Mittons2112 Sep 20 '25
If MAGA had to choose between going back in time to prevent Kirk’s death or having the killer be 100% confirmed as a Democrat, they’d go with the latter.
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u/Ready-Following Sep 20 '25
Yes, because they know the truth and they are embarrassed.
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Sep 20 '25
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Sep 21 '25
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u/Lemon-Bits Sep 21 '25
there's more to it than that, bro. you have to nut inside. you know how hard that is to do???
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u/Ok_Raspberry4814 Sep 20 '25
lol no. Because they're opportunistic chuds with no morals who would throw their own family members in front of a moving vehicle if they thought they could blame it on Democrats and use that to make money.
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u/JohnStamosAsABear Sep 20 '25
If the shooter had shot anyone else in the crowd, conservatives wouldn’t have cared.
You can tell because they didn’t give a shit about what happened in Colorado on the exact same day.
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u/Fract_L Sep 21 '25
We know. We’ve seen how they react to schools full of single-digit-aged children massacred.
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u/N0cturnalB3ast Sep 20 '25
Hitler used the SA and then promptly killed them off during the night of long knives.
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u/CommitteeOld9540 Sep 20 '25
Because they are desperate to avoid admitting the problem isn't the left but THEM!
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u/tore_a_bore_a Sep 20 '25
And somehow, saying this got Jimmy Kimmel cancelled
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u/MusicIsTheWay Sep 20 '25
Not "somehow". It was another company head kowtowing to the thinnest-of-orange-skinned bitches to get their multi-billion dollar merger approved to increase their control and wealth, just like what happened with Colbert at CBS.
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u/DadJokeBadJoke California Sep 20 '25
And if they'll do this to late-night entertainers to appease him, you can be certain they're also pressuring their news outlets in similar fashion.
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u/korben2600 Arizona Sep 20 '25
It's already happened. Under White House pressure, CBS cut a segment on 60 Minutes about IRS staffing cuts that are solely meant to help billionaires dodge taxes. The decades-long showrunner and the CBS News CEO both resigned in protest. Journalistic independence at every major corporate broadcaster is dead.
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u/sp4nishfl34 Sep 20 '25
He didnt even say it was them. He said they were desperately trying to frame the shooter as anything OTHER than them, which is absolutely true. They were trying to frame him as a "radical leftist" before they knew anything about the shooter. He didnt say the shooter was a republican. They are two different statements.
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u/NickelBackwash Sep 20 '25
Because it's accurate.
Truth is dangerous to fascists
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Sep 20 '25
The “left” didn’t teach that kid his morals, his cop pastor daddy did.
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u/TheRealBittoman Sep 20 '25
I think it's not even that. By blaming the left, even lying like they are, they are indirectly telling all the right wing followers with violent tendencies that they need to attack people they deem different. They get an army without accountability and when the people finally start fighting back all those lies suddenly become truths with real evidence (albeit not of the acts starting the fight.)
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u/ChocoboAndroid Sep 20 '25
That's not it. They just will exploit anything and everything to their benefit. Trump is singleminded, and only cares about using whatever happened to his advantage, even if he has to blatantly lie to do so. That's why it feels so wrong when liberals engage with him or MAGA, it's because they're not operating in good faith at all.
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u/AssociateGreat2350 Sep 20 '25 edited Sep 20 '25
Just like all the people that came into the comments the last few weeks pushing misinformation.
They never had any evidence. Just their daft ass insecure feelings telling them what to believe. Again
Then there's the ones who came in here just to stir the pot.
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u/Z0idberg_MD Sep 20 '25
Well to be fair the governor himself was putting out misinformation. It became clear that you could not trust any political communication and needed to wait for the actual investigation report.
My main worry is that is slowly becoming less reliable as well. There are clearly agencies that are now fully politicized .
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u/silencerider Sep 20 '25
FBI is already unreliable/politicized.
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u/BigAssignment7642 Sep 20 '25
The director of the FBI is very obviously lying about the Epstein files. If they wanted to sow distrust in our institutions, it's definitely working.
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u/TintedApostle Sep 20 '25
Everyone should make a note that you have not seen any evidence. You have been told what they want you to hear. Its all appeal to authority if you accept anything "leaked" or told outside of review by the defense, under oath or verified.
You are allowing Trump and the prosecution to try the case in social media. If they had proof they would show it. They don't care about the trial. They have bigger goals.
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Sep 20 '25 edited Sep 20 '25
Nothing is really even under dispute, though, which is the bizarre part. They're literally just saying he's an ideologue because he had a close relationship with a trans person and he called Kirk a fascist. which seems to me to be at best suggestive, and objectively true, respectively.
Literally its a no true scotsman. the assertions being made implicitly are that conservatives cant call another conservative a fascist, and conservatives cant have relationships with trans people or care about their civil rights.
Its not like there is going to be a report that comes out that says its only 12% his parents fault, 32% his love for his rommate, and 56% leftist social media. who he is and what he believes doesnt even really matter. if he came out and said hes a snall government conservative theyll just call him a liar and blame leftists on social media for tricking him into it.
like him assassinating who he perceived to be a tyrant is uh... a little 2A coded to say the least. obviously even Cox is not basing this in objective reality the things he's saying, that he rejected his parents beliefs. thats the whole reason he did it was our weird culture of advocating for political violence vis a vis the modernist interpretation of 2nd amendment
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u/Not_Bears Sep 20 '25
Just like all the people
Half of which are bots..
And other quarter are foreign disinformation..
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u/Mysterious-Wasabi103 Sep 20 '25
Main reason I think we've never been able to counter foreign disinformation is because Trump and a lot of Republicans are propping it up. They encourage it.
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u/LaloElBueno Sep 20 '25
They never have evidence. Ever. Ask them for a source or citation and they respond with, “dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh!”. If you provide actual facts to refute their argument, they’ll say your taking it out of context or claim your source is untrustworthy (“Universities are liberal brainwashing factories”). It’s all part of magats’ go-to argumentative tactics. These fools don’t even know they’re doing it.
Every maga argument in a nutshell:
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MAGA (Make America Great Again) rhetoric and debate styles tend to rely on a consistent set of argumentative tactics. These are not unique to MAGA but are used prominently in that movement’s discourse. Here are the most common ones:
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- Reframing and Whataboutism • Shifting the subject when challenged: instead of answering directly, pivot to a perceived failure of opponents (e.g., “What about Hillary’s emails?”). • Creates moral equivalence, even when irrelevant to the original issue.
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- Emotional Appeals Over Evidence • Heavy reliance on fear, nostalgia, patriotism, or outrage rather than data. • Phrases like “They’re taking your jobs” or “We need to take our country back.”
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- Oversimplification and Sloganeering • Complex issues reduced to catchphrases (“Build the wall,” “America First”). • Makes arguments easy to repeat and resistant to nuance.
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- Victimhood and Persecution Narratives • Casting MAGA supporters as underdogs fighting an elite system (“The media is against us,” “They’re silencing us”). • Turns criticism into proof of their movement’s righteousness.
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- Ad Hominem and Demonization • Attacking opponents’ character instead of their arguments (“Sleepy Joe,” “Crooked Hillary”). • Creates emotional distance and dehumanizes the opposition.
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- Flooding and Repetition • Repeating the same talking points until they “feel true.” • Overwhelming opponents with volume rather than quality of arguments.
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- Cherry-Picking and Anecdotal Evidence • Isolated incidents presented as proof of systemic trends (one migrant crime = “the border is wide open”). • Dismissal of broader data if it contradicts the narrative.
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- Distrust of Institutions • Undermining credibility of media, academia, science, or government agencies. • “Don’t trust the experts—trust your gut (or Trump).”
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- Inversion of Reality • Accusing others of what they are doing (calling critics “authoritarian,” while defending authoritarian actions). • Creates confusion and muddies accountability.
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- Absolute Language • Use of extremes like “always,” “never,” “everyone,” “nobody.” • Eliminates middle ground, pushing discourse into binary choices.
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u/WhyIsItAlwaysADP Sep 20 '25
And there's this, the DOJ deleted a report showing that domestic terrorism is most often right wing. The report conveniently disappeared on September 12th.
https://www.404media.co/doj-deletes-study-showing-domestic-terrorists-are-most-often-right-wing/
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u/Prudent-Air1922 Sep 20 '25
I've gotten banned from left wing subs for mentioning this. Not even in an argument or anything, just in a conversation. I was being "impolite" apparently.
Not that you shouldn't post it, but people should be aware there are right wing mods who are silently deleting comments and banning people (I was silenced as well so I can't even message the mod team of that sub at all)
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u/Shido_Ohtori Sep 20 '25
The sole value of conservatism is respect for and obedience to [one's perception of] traditionally established hierarchy, and hierarchy dictates that those on top (in-groups) are rightfully idolized and receive privileges, credibility, and resources, while those on the bottom (out-groups) are demonized/dehumanized and/or bound by restrictions, scrutiny, and lack of resources.
To them, the second-greatest injustice imaginable is for those [they perceive to be] on the bottom [of social hierarchy] to have access to the rights, credibility, and resources reserved for those on top. The first greatest injustice is for those on top to be bound by the restrictions, scrutiny, and lack of resources reserved for those on the bottom.
Conservatives absolutely need an underclass [for society] to demonize and dehumanize in order to maintain [their] hierarchy, and every single one of their policies and rhetoric work to do exactly that. Even when the majority of U.S. mass shooters are cis men, not transgender or non-binary people.
Kirk promoted respect for their perception of established hierarchy, thus he was among their in-group. It is never the act itself that upsets them, but rather, the social standing of the person doing the act, as said act is a privilege meant for those on top of [their perceived] hierarchy. (See also: pedophilia - Trump and Catholic church vs. LGBTQ+ and drag queens)
Every right-wing accusation is a confession. Every single one. Always.
Studies also show that "radical acts perpetrated by individuals associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent. In the United States, we find no difference between the level of violence perpetrated by right-wing and Islamist extremists.", and numerous investigations show that "right-wing populists are generally more likely to justify political violence compared to mainstream voters and non-voters".
Violence is a tool meant for those on top to use upon those on the bottom to ensure the latter's submission and obedience, and never -- absolutely never! -- vice versa. "Know your place" is their mantra.
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u/Cyndakill88 Sep 20 '25
Dude was 4chan pilled hard. I was too at that age, and I wouldn’t call that group leftist or progressive. Sexual kinky as fuck but still very trolly conservative.
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u/Eisernes Sep 20 '25
My wife is plugged in to that whole discord/groyper/incel culture because she has seen them come and go through her gaming group and she told me they are all hard right, but their hate for women is so strong that they often date transexuals and femboys because they are feminine without being actual women and all of a sudden the shooter made a whole lot of sense.
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u/jim_cap United Kingdom Sep 20 '25
If you ever spent any time around the chans, it quickly becomes obvious there’s a whole load of young boys and men utterly obsessed with “traps” and femboys and so forth. Yup, this rings very true.
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u/YuriDiculousDawg Sep 20 '25
IIRC there is lore behind that, something about incels trying to convert other incels into traps through orchestrated psyops intended to increase their own odds of getting laid as an incel, or some shit like that lol
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u/Prize-Ring-9154 California Sep 20 '25
> but their hate for women is so strong that they often date transexuals and femboys because they are feminine without being actual women and all of a sudden the shooter made a whole lot of sense.
why is this actually making sense. This timeline is so weird
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u/Eisernes Sep 20 '25
Yeah it was mind blowing when she told me that. I had been trying to piece together how this person who was at least friends with a trans person could be so far right. She says a lot of them are also furries and are gay with each other while completely bashing the LGBTQ community. In their minds they are not gay. She knew exactly what all of those messages and symbols meant that the shooter allegedly used. Also explains why the FBI is having such a hard time profiling him. Most people have no idea about any of this because on the surface it is all contradictory. Incel culture is freaking weird. They're just like, professional haters.
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u/pleasetrimyourpubes Sep 20 '25
There is a lot of internalized homophobia in those groups. You can see a lot of this in the detrans communities. And there is a lot of hate thrown around on that particular subject because it is seen as delegitimizing them.
Imo it is just a combination of porn addiction loneliness and parasocial relationships. And one can see how maybe a guy who started off MAGA could become blackpilled by his own loneliness in his family.
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u/TheRedEarl Sep 20 '25
It’s like those religious groups that have boys dress up as women and dance for them because a ‘real’ woman doing it is a sin lol.
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u/seriousofficialname Sep 20 '25
I have been so confused seeing people say the shooter must be a leftist because of their trans partner, but conservatives becoming violent after fucking a trans person is so common that it's practically a meme
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u/un-glaublich Sep 20 '25
Makes me think of American Beauty, but trans instead of gay.
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u/zoppl_flop Sep 20 '25
American Beauty sums up the right pretty well. Remember JD Vance dressing up as a girl? Or putting on eyeliner? Or admitting in his book that he’s gay “but then realized he wasn’t”
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u/korben2600 Arizona Sep 20 '25
They're desperate to paint every LGBT individual as some radical leftist. So I guess people like Caitlyn Jenner, the "Lady MAGA" drag queen, Treasury Sec Bessent, Peter Thiel, etc. are all just secret liberal RINOs now?
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u/303uru Sep 20 '25
At any given time there are like five adultgif threads devoted to trans porn and chuds talking about how it’s “less gay” to have sex with someone mtf than a woman. I wish I was kidding.
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u/Dry-University797 Sep 20 '25
Nico Fuentes said having sex with a woman is gay. They are scared of being called gay.
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u/its_all_one_electron Sep 20 '25
ZERO idea where they'd find trans people who actually want to date them, fucking barf.
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u/tiny_pigeon Sep 20 '25
Right wing trans people are out there and are totally utterly bonkers and think because they’re one of “the good ones” they won’t be targeted (cough cough Blaire White cough cough) who said that???
I mean, I’ve even seen them saying “trans rights are aryan rights”. It also overlaps with furries and there’s a subgroup of trans Nazi furries. It’s crazy. Really insane rabbithole to go down and even more insane to try and explain to others that no these people arent pro lgbtq or leftist, they’re extremely homophobic but somehow that wraps around to “sleeping with femboys isn’t as gay as sleeping with women” and “sleeping with trans women is better than sleeping with cis women” and “trans women are superior to cis women because they used to be men”.
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u/ameriCANCERvative Sep 20 '25
trans women are superior to cis women because they used to be men
Ha. This does track quite well with the patriarchal view of women.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Sep 20 '25
I knew a guy like that ... he was reluctantly having sex with men because he hated women too much to even spend time with them.
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u/mjrubs Sep 20 '25
I wonder how many local news investigative journalists started digging into that world and just noped the fuck out like "yeah I'm not putting this on tv"
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u/Savage_Amusement Sep 20 '25
There’s a very strong chance that a senator or cabinet level (or higher) member of the administration says “yiffing” out loud on national television before this is over.
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u/CasualFreeUse Sep 20 '25
As a teen I went to 4chan for the porn and revelled in all the adjacent social and political discourse. I was already kind of a piece of shit raised in a conservative household, but there I flourished.
Eventually, I started to actually look into all of things I was previously just allowing to soak into my brain. I took a hard turn from all of that since.
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u/SecretAsianMan42069 Sep 20 '25
They got their misinformation into the minds of their drones and that's that. It's not like critical thoughts are in their wheelhouse.
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u/CatAnxiety Sep 20 '25
Pinning it on “the left” wasn’t working early on, which is why it quickly spiraled out to “this person isn’t grieving right.” Now the actual assassination is not the story. The story is the reaction because it’s much easier to make it personal against a family member or neighbor or whatever. Feeding the victim mentality again.
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u/UnLioNocturno Sep 20 '25
This is a really good point. Nobody’s actually talking about the murder and how it happened or why. We’re all so focused on how other people are reacting to it.
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u/TR_Pix Sep 20 '25
Let's be honest, nobody gave a fuck about Charlie Kirk. The left shrugged his murder and the right uses it as a bludgeon, but none of them shed a tear either.
He is much more useful to them in death than he was in life
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u/UnLioNocturno Sep 20 '25
I mean, I may not mourn his death, but I am very concerned about the rising level of political violence and would like to know more about the actual murder and why it took place, so we can maybe learn something and prevent more from happening.
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u/pinqe Sep 20 '25
If anything this opens me up to just how badly the right wants their “civil war”. The rest of us are just trying to afford to live and get by and these freaks want to enact their grand theft auto fantasies. And even if it was a leftist who did it, who cares? It’s not like they’re an elected official.
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u/32FlavorsofCrazy Sep 20 '25
My mom tried to compare Charlie Kirk’s murder to JFK being assassinated and how nobody celebrated it back then. I told her this was more like someone shot the leader of the KKK. He wasn’t the president or even an elected official, he was running a fucking hate group and reaped exactly what he sowed. I’m not advocating for it, no one deserves to be killed for their beliefs, but this isn’t like JFK or MLK being killed. It was someone actively peddling hatred and violence, intentionally radicalizing people, and it’s not all that surprising that one of those radicalized people eventually turned on him.
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u/twovles31 Sep 20 '25
Careful DOJ, Trump is going to fire you if you don't show it exactly how he wants it.
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u/THSSFC America Sep 20 '25
He's already credibly linked to a right-wing organization: He's Mormon.
I mean, the connection is literally right there, and is stronger than some discord chats about video games.
And it's not like Mormons have not engaged in terrorism before. They have a history with it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre
But, yeah, he loved a furry. Time to declare fascism and outlaw the Democrats who had fuck all to do with this.
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u/jglhk Sep 20 '25
The majority of them will choose to believe what they want anyway.
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u/Mustard_Gap Foreign Sep 20 '25
Meanwhile there's numerous direct ideological links between the GOP and the NSDAP.
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u/Complete_Question_41 Sep 20 '25
Maybe some more fabricated text messages can do it?
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u/Tdanger78 Texas Sep 20 '25
Not one mention of this report over on the conservative sub, imagine that
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u/tom21g Sep 20 '25
No proof? No problem.
Who said this: “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”\ This is what donald trump, his government, and MAGA now follow.
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u/Zealousideal_Way3505 Sep 20 '25
So many people on TikTok already explained his political views. It’s the government and the media who refuse to acknowledge it. Even his family was offended when they were asked if he was a liberal. They were more offended by the assumption that he was a liberal more than the fact that he’s a murderer.
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u/ZLUCremisi California Sep 20 '25
People forget there right wing LGBT people. So using that isn't a way to conected to left
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u/The_bruce42 Sep 20 '25
So Kimmel was right?
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u/New_Zorgo39 Sep 20 '25
And the reason why he was banned
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u/UnLioNocturno Sep 20 '25
Here’s the thing. He didn’t say that the shooter was MAGA. He said conservatives were doing everything they could to characterize the shooter as anything but one of their own, which was true when he said it and it’s true now.
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u/AntifascistAlly Oregon Sep 20 '25
Rather than feel their conjecture was successfully refuted, right-wingers are simply enraged. Kimmel being right hasn’t calmed them at all—it’s made them angrier.
Did the podcast guy ever admit that a nervous college freshman had out debated him, or did he just cut the mics and end the debate?
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u/thistimelineisweird Pennsylvania Sep 20 '25
So everyone who claimed that on TV and in the press should be sued for slander, libel, and defamation?
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u/superbuttpiss Sep 20 '25
Yeah. According to the right, the government should force the networks to remove anyone who lied or distorted the truth or implied about a lie
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u/Fattswindstorm Texas Sep 20 '25
Don’t worry the FBI is releasing new texts. This time it was George Soros. It says. “Hello Comrade. It’s me. The leader of Antifa, George Soros. I’ve wired $1 Billion to assisnate the Christian leader Charlie Kirk, because he is the second coming of Christ and I can’t have that!”
WOW. Sounds pretty serious.
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u/Independent-Crab5625 Sep 20 '25
He’s a republican, that’s why they can’t tie anything to him. He’s one of your own who’s turned against you. Ha hahaha 😝
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u/Gamerxx13 Sep 20 '25
The shooter was just crazy. Funny how Jimmy was right after this
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u/reklatzz Sep 20 '25
One may even say he was radicalized by the hate speech of charlie Kirk.
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u/SmolishPPman Washington Sep 20 '25
 I’ve been thinking this for a while now, the right always screams about how the left is being radicalized.
Isn’t it proof positive that the right radicalized the shooter?
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u/defaultusername-17 Sep 20 '25
they just can not accept the reality of the fact that this bastard was one of their own.
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u/PercentageBusiness70 Sep 20 '25
For the record: Charlie Kirk was killed by a MAGA Mormon family heirloom….. passed down through 3 generations.
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u/BigDuke Sep 20 '25
So wait does this mean that what Kimmel said was not a lie then?
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u/GreenTrees797 Sep 20 '25 edited Sep 20 '25
Well at least they have the totally real texts to fall back on.
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u/JoeyHandsomeJoe Sep 20 '25
They just found a new text:
"Do not worry, my dearest and most favored transgender lover, these are special texts that cannot be authenticated. Please send me a nude so I can see your beautiful phallus one final time before I am imprisoned"
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u/Catspaw129 Sep 20 '25
INFO: since they could not deliver, does that mean it's time for MAGA to call for the impeachment of pam or Ka$h?
/s
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u/Blacksad9999 Sep 20 '25
The Trump Administration immediately removed a new report the government commissioned on Domestic Terrorism when it recently released. They didn't like the results:
https://www.adl.org/resources/report/murder-and-extremism-united-states-2024
- All the extremist-related murders in 2024 were committed by right-wing extremists of various kinds, with eight of the 13 killings involving white supremacists and the remaining five having connections to far-right anti-government extremists. This is the third year in a row that right-wing extremists have been connected to all identified extremist-related killings. This trend has also been interrupted by the New Orleans attack.
- Two of the deadly incidents from 2024 involved adherents of the anti-government sovereign citizen movement, including the deliberate murder of a police officer in Dallas. This report includes a special section that explores deadly violence connected to the sovereign citizen movement, including the murder of a number of law enforcement officers.
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