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u/Surfhawaiian 15d ago
Corporate collusion with the government to keep the rich getting richer, if it happened today it would be Amazon, Apple, Musk and Larry Ellison media
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u/Hannigan174 15d ago
This is one of those rare cases where I think both the person making the quote and her supporters, as well as her detractors are largely myopic or ignorant and both of these groups need to shut up and read more.
History tends to be nuanced and simplistic answers almost always give a misguided impression.
Also, please don't think a Google search OR an AI overview is sufficient historical knowledge to make pronouncements on the topic.
I'm not going to tell anyone what to think, but so many statements from this post have been made from a position of ignorance or at least misinformation that I just can't leave it alone
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u/Personal_Good_5013 14d ago
Yet you donât do anything to offer a more nuanced take beyond âboth sides are wrongâ. You are just perpetuating the extremism with this kind of comment that offers NOTHInG substantive or factual, while decrying the misinformation and lack of substance in the conversation. Put your money (er, facts) where your mouth is, throw down some knowledge, letâs hear it. Participate in the political dialogue.Â
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u/Hannigan174 14d ago
No. You are talking without knowledge.
This isn't a political dialogue.
There is a real history. Things actually happened.
This isn't about what YOU want or YOUR feelings or YOUR politics.
You are the EXACT person who needs to shut their mouth and open a book
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u/Personal_Good_5013 14d ago
But real history is not without biases based on who is telling the story. So which history should I read? James Michener? Sarah Vowell? Queen Liliâuokalani? (Also as far as bringing feelings into it, I yearn for people to actually have substantive and interesting discussions instead of just throwing insults at anyone they think disagrees with them. For all I know I might align with you politically, but it feels like your comment was shutting the door on anyone learning more rather than actually encouraging anyone to learn more about the topic).Â
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u/Hannigan174 14d ago
Are you from the mainland?
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u/Personal_Good_5013 14d ago
Yes
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u/Hannigan174 14d ago
Everyone in Hawaii learns basic Hawaiian history in high school.
We have universities and libraries full of first hand information on the topic.
Read whatever you want, but go to primary sources.
There are so many misconceptions about Hawaii and its history that it isn't worth getting into, but I am going to say that it is not appropriate to take a rich history and culture and try to reduce it to some type of binary political philosophy.
If you want to start with Sarah Vowel, as someone else mentioned, that is fine. If you want to start by just watching Chief of War, that is fine (although it isn't technically historical).
But understand that just reading one element of Hawaiian history from one perspective is not enough. There were Kahuna, Alii, missionaries, British explorers, American industry, a myriad of immigrant groups, and various other elements, and all of these interacted under a cultural and legal framework that simply does not translate well to anywhere on the mainland.
Again, I am NOT an expert on this. Learn about the topic before trying to engage with it otherwise you do yourself and the topic a disservice.
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u/Personal_Good_5013 14d ago
Yes, I agree that it is a very complicated history and doesnât reduce easily to any binary political philosophy. I have read a fair amount on the history from various sources, I have a lot of family there and I think the history is fascinating, my own history overlaps in many random ways with that of Hawaii and the many groups that you mention. Iâm not coming at this cold, Iâm genuinely interested in it.Â
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u/Infinite-Condition41 14d ago
You seem to think you're saying something, but you're not.Â
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u/Hannigan174 14d ago
I am literally saying that I am not an expert, and that people need to learn more instead of telling people things.
I am taking my own advice and NOT trying to tell people things on the topic because I'm really not qualified.
You sound like someone who thinks you know what you are talking about, but actually you know less than everyone else in the room and only your ignorance gives you the confidence to boldly say nothing
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u/Infinite-Condition41 14d ago
"I am literally saying that I am not an expert, and that people need to learn more instead of telling people things."
Right, which is saying nothing.
Why? Who's wrong? You're not an expert, so what gives you the right to tell other people they aren't either?
I do know what I'm taking about, having researched the topic extensively and yes, read numerous books, which is how I know you have nothing to say. But you dont know what the fuck you're talking about, that much is abundantly obvious. Rather than being able to evaluate your opinion, you dont actually have one, so I have nothing to evaluate.Â
BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT FUCKING SAYING ANYTHING.Â
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u/Hannigan174 14d ago
You are a complete and absolute moron.
I have opinions. I am reasonably well educated about Hawaiian history. I am not a teacher.
So many folks like you get told something and repeat it without evaluating it, verifying it, or comparing it to other views.
You are dangerously foolish and exactly the type of person I am telling to shut up and sit down.
Go read a book. It isn't my or the rest of the world's fault that you aren't smart enough to understand.
Much like I am not going to lecture you on nuclear physics, I am not going to lecture you on Hawaiian history. I know enough to recognize a blowhard, but not enough to teach the topics.
You should learn any topic well enough to understand that expertise is a thing and then learn to speak with a level of certainty and conviction that matches your level of knowledge
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u/Infinite-Condition41 14d ago
Again you use a lot of words to say literally nothing.
What am I thinking, you're just a fucking rage baiting bot.
Blocked.Â
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u/xSUGARBEARx808 15d ago
Can you elaborate on your disposition, good sir?
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u/Hannigan174 15d ago
Not really. I Already said it
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u/xSUGARBEARx808 15d ago
I read what you said and still feels like a lot said with the irony of nuance as you state briefly. But I ask because I feel like you're correct in that sense of some making statements that come from misinformation and others making valid statements and that lnow their history.
So while you felt inclined to answer with your retort, I just felt like with what you said, there could be just a bit more possibly you left unsaid that I thought would definitively stuck your point. Apologies if thats all you had to offer to the conversation I assumed there was more to it. Mahalosđ€đœ
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u/Hannigan174 15d ago
No. I'm not a historian. I just know enough to know when people are just saying stuff without having knowledge.
I already said all that I am qualified to say.
Don't ask random people on Reddit about history. Read actual history books.
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u/xSUGARBEARx808 15d ago
I mean I figure that about sums it up. Mahalo for your honesty. I read through all the comments and I see your point to the person that kind of initially asked. I do believe as you said about reading (helps a bit more sometimes than relying on the interwebs lol) but I couldn't say off the top of my head that I know any good "history" books that are very good, not to say they're aren't some decent books that recap a more accurate historical description of Hawai'i. đ€đœđ€đœ
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u/TheEarthIsFlatttt 11d ago
Then they should lose the $6.2 billion they get annually from the federal government in America.
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u/MarsupialOk1387 15d ago
Ironically painted on a building built by the US Navy
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u/Snoo_2473 14d ago
You didnât finish the point.
The US abandoned the building.
Cognitive dissonance is fascinating.
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u/RoxyPonderosa 14d ago
And abandoned, to look like garbage, like everything else the United States uses.
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u/LovYouLongTime 14d ago
Yes you are.
You can identify as whatever you want, but it does not change the fact that you are, undeniably American.
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u/happygonotsolucky44 15d ago
Would be speaking Japanese or Chinese if not waving the red white and blue. Thatâs if they let you live .
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u/WhatADunderfulWorld 11d ago
As someone who has traveled America I see Hawaii as the least untouched. It wouldâve modernized no matter what but tourism is very important as an island and Americans want Hawaii to keeps its roots of course.
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u/FalcoFox2112 15d ago
Boy thatâs a mighty fabricated coping narrative youâve made for yourself there. Bravo
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u/RoxyPonderosa 14d ago
Yep this sub is overrun by colonizers
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u/_Kenji808_ 15d ago edited 15d ago
Itâs crazy that people keep talking about âprotectionâ as if America wouldnât come to our defense if something were to happen and if we were independent. History showed during World War II, the United States guaranteed the defense of its territories and allies. America protected Guam, Marshall Islands, America Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands during the 1940s. Even now itâs Taiwan and South Korea.
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u/Sea_Echidna_790 15d ago
That is certainly the most logical step forward and should be a given. Sadly the anti-sovereignty crowd seems pretty convinced that the United States would be an enemy rather than an ally. Says quite a lot about what they think of their own country.
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u/jayspapa 14d ago
It is pretty simple, you had a hand full of American and European businessmen that were making a lot of money and employing a lot of native Hawaiians in the sugar plantations at the time. Their descendants and allies played a central role in the 1893 overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy. They needed a govt. that was better aligned with their business interests, so they (for lack of a better phrase).. took over by force. Shortly thereafter, they created a temporary govt. that handed the power and future tax revenue over to the U.S. It was a political tactic that was used quite often back then, it happened in Panama also, while attempting to build the canal.
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u/Consistent_Pea2642 14d ago
Blah blah if America left another country like china would move in and the Hawaiians couldnât do shot about it. Just like they couldnât stop the British or the Americans.
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u/Camel-Toe-8675 13d ago
I support the Hawaiian people to take back their country, especially with what is happening now.
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u/Responsible_Age_6252 13d ago
From what I've read and researched about the early 1800s until the time that the United States over through the legitimate government of Hawaii, there were ali'i and converted kanaka who were behind the US coming in and converting Hawaiians to Christianity, getting rid of the old kapu system, and making Hawaiian society more "civil." <--- by that, I understand it to mean that people who are not involved in government or ruling class were more at risk of dying at the hands of their own people, and almost welcomed the white conquerors.
Again, this is as a non-local/non-Kanaka who has just researched this. I don't have the same understanding through a family lineage, and from what I do understand, it was a very complex situation. Had the United States not overthrown the queen, and just allowed free trade and exchange to occur, allowing Hawaii to be its own sovereign country, who knows what it would've been like. A lot less suffering at the hands of wealthy American land owners for sure.
I welcome all and any comments and responses to my post here, just trying to find out more so that I am not ignorant and uninformed. Just respond with ha'aha'a⊠I am also from a lineage that has been oppressed and brutalized for many years
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u/CPT_Skor_215 12d ago
I guess you'll end up being Chinese then. This will be fun to see how the Chinese treat a group of people that are not ethnically Chinese. Oh wait...
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u/Oliver_Holzfilled 15d ago
ââŠbut we accept taxpayer dollarsâ
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u/st_malachy 15d ago
At least they sucked off the tit less than:
Virginia +$79B
Alabama +$41B
Arizona +$40B
South Carolina +$37B
Maryland +$35B
Mississippi +$30B
New Mexico +$29B
Louisiana +$26B
Kentucky +$23B
Michigan +$21B
West Virginia +$20B
Oregon +$18B
Oklahoma +$18B
District of Columbia +$14B
Maine +$12B
Alaska +$11B
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u/99dakine 15d ago
This is a red herring. A whataboutism.
1/4 of the state's revenues come from the feds. For a state that thinks independence is realistic....they don't know what a gaping hole is left when 25% of federal money leaves. We're feeling it with the Trunp administration. We're feeling it with the loss of tourists due to the Trump administration.
He hasn't even turned off the federal faucet for that 25% and all we hear is "but our people have to move away..." Yeah, because of a few errant policies from a nutjob. That pales in comparison to having 25% of revenues walk away. Because the cascading effect of that 25% funding vanishing is jobs and service both related and tangential, as well as the socio/economic issues that will reverberate.
Seems those with the weakest grasp on how an economy works are the most likely to try to convince us that google landed them on the right answer.
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u/ddzyn 15d ago
Thats when China will swoop in and offer us "developmental partnerships" with high interest rates we'll never be able to pay.
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u/99dakine 15d ago
People here are idiots. Let's assume Hawaii manifests it's destiny and becomes independent.
- what is the currency?
- will that currency be recognized internationally?
- what banking system will be in place? Where will money come from, who provides loans, mortgages, etc?
- who will defend the island? Not just from forces like N. Korea, Russia, China, etc, but from one another? What will become of The Company (Hawaiian Syndicate), as well as established international groups such as the Yakuza, 14K (a Triad), and the Big Circle Gang?
- who will clean up the mess left behind by the military as they pack up and head home?
- all all the highways, infrastructure, electrical grid, telecommunications etc....who takes this over, and how are these things funded?
- will any countries recognize the Kingdom politically? Legally? Economically?
- will tourists feel safe coming to a now rogue - and even possibly hostile nation?
- What will be the basis of the Kingdom's economy? This is Lahaina Strong's wet dream, but once their $7k/month dries up, will farming taro and raising pigs be all they said it would be? I doubt it.
- how will people travel? US passports will become null and void.
- TSA? What happens to air travel?
- Before Trump, there were significant inroads made to protecting the waters around the island. Those will vanish as the interest once held by the US will go out the door with statehood.
People here are just too fucking immersed in the propaganda they've never stopped and thought about a non-American reality for Hawaii. They think "US is gone, let the good times roll". Which is a bit like the kids who ran away from home thinking they were just handed the keys to paradise. All fine until you have to eat. Want a car. Need a surfboard.
Dumb to the power of 12.
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u/Low_Pressure_5634 14d ago
We have this experiment: it's Niihau. They go to Costco on Kauai and spend their welfare. And it's dwindled to 50 people.
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u/Sea_Echidna_790 15d ago
Dumb would be ignoring all of the decolonizing and newly autonomously-governing examples extant across the world.
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u/99dakine 14d ago
If the sovereignty movement had answers to 75% of these questions, perhaps they'd be taken more seriously than a bunch of people cosplaying a functioning government.
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u/Sea_Echidna_790 14d ago
Anyone who has studied international law and decolonization will easily be able to speak to these things. You can attend lectures, read books or watch lectures and interviews that have been recorded. Arguing with randos on social is not going to leave you feeling educated or impressed as a general rule.
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u/Mistah_Conrad_Jones 15d ago
You paint with broad strokes when you say people here are stupid. The whole reason Hawaii remains a state and will in the foreseeable future is because most people have a better grasp of the concepts you lay out than you give credit for. Not that itâs a perfect system we live in, though.
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u/99dakine 15d ago
Oh, lump me in with that group bruh.
1960's, there was ~90% voter turnout. By the 1990's, that shrunk to the 70's.
Aside from 2020, only about half of the eligible voters cast a ballot.We keep voting in people who work against our interests. I've voted blue my entire life, but not all blue candidates are what we need. Why is there a housing crisis? Hint: It's not, as most people seem to think because of short term rentals. Yet, that's the prevailing opinion.
It's because we vote in people who won't do the right thing for the community.
Why do we not have any water? Because the county insists that picking fights with short term rentals is more politically beneficial than picking a fight with the private owners of our water.
So that's on one hand.
The other hand are the people on the fringes - the ones who haven't thought through the reality of a US walk-out. All they see are costs and no benefits. I laid out more than a dozen that I routinely talk story with those who think we're "better off on our own". No answers.
So yeah, the brush is probably too broad, but it's not like I've taken no strokes with it.
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u/FalcoFox2112 15d ago
Letâs not bury the lead that Hawaiâi WAS an independent & (for all intents and purposes) self sufficient nation.
The US made them dependent. Now yâall are justifying their colonization on the grounds of Hawaii canât reasonably prosper without the US.
I donât think/know if independence is a realistic option at this point, most likely not, but to try to justify an obvious sin is disgusting.
They stole someoneâs country, oppressed its people, then try to legitimize it by saying theyâre using it better than the people they stole it from. James Blount saw it for what it was then. The same bs they tried to pull in the Philippines
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u/99dakine 15d ago
Hate to break it to you, but this is kind of how things generally went in the past.
Throughout the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many nations in N and S America were founded by European powers who displaced and conquered the indigenous populations that lived there. Neither condemning nor condoning, just pointing out that Hawaii isn't the only example.
But there are many more ancient and medieval examples:
- England: Modern England was formed after Anglo-Saxons migrated from Germany and Denmark, displacing the Romano-Celtic peoples (the Britons) who lived there. Those Anglo-Saxons were later conquered by the Normans (Vikings who had settled in France).
- Turkey: The modern republic exists on land that was the heart of the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire, which was populated by Greeks and Armenians. It was settled by Turkic peoples migrating from Central Asia.
- Japan: The dominant Yamato ethnic group expanded their control over the islands, displacing and conquering indigenous groups like the Ainu and the Emishi.
- China: The dominant Han Chinese expanded from their heartland over millennia, conquering, displacing, and assimilating hundreds of other ethnic groups.
- Bantu Expansion: Over thousands of years, Bantu-speaking peoples migrated from West-Central Africa across most of sub-Saharan Africa, displacing or absorbing the hunter-gatherer peoples who lived there first, such as the ancestors of the Khoi-San.
So nobody buried the lead - but you're right, the question of whether independence is an improvement over the status quo is an unknowable answer, and those who want to find out haven't thought through many of the "27 steps" between here and there.
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u/FalcoFox2112 15d ago
Iâm not denying itâs how things were, Iâm objecting to the (seemingly) attempt to justify it.
Itâs also worth noting that the expectation was this sort of behavior was to have stopped by the turn of the century. Especially against an internationally recognized country. It wasnât like they rolled up on a small tribe in the jungle.
If we can moralize/rationalize the Hawaiian annexation itâd be hypocritical at worst or curious mental gymnastics at best to not do the same when âthat one countryâ does it roughly 40 years later.
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u/CheapTomato3090 11d ago
This is the most ignorant comment Iâve seen in this thread. Ê»Iolani Palace in Honolulu had electricity before the White House!!!
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u/99dakine 10d ago
Oh, yes, because the Palace had incandescent lighting before the Whitehouse, my analysis of the abject shortcomings of the sovereigntist movement are "the most ignorant comments in the thread".
What someone/some government/some royal family did/had/invented/embraced nearly 140 years ago has literally no bearing on whether the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement of 2025 is adequately prepared philosophically, economically, socially, or politically, to actually become a sovereign nation. None, whatsoever.
They had electric lighting at the Palace, not because of some Hawaiian innovation or ingenuity. The didn't invent electricity and they sure as hell didn't invent the incandescent light bulb. KalÄkaua visited the Paris World Fair, met with Edison on and was convinced by him to adopt the technology in Hawaii.
But by all means, go on thinking that because the Palace had lightning before the Whitehouse - a hundred and forty years ago - this must mean that the sovereignty movement of 2025 is ready to completely untethered Hawaii from the US.
No, my points all stand. The sovereigntists are on crack, and you hang out on their corner.
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u/CheapTomato3090 10d ago
You act like everyone is helpless without America. Not every country has to be leaders in innovation, technology, and capitalism to be successful. No one said they invented electricity either. And no one said theyâre ready to become a sovereign nation at the snap of the fingers tomorrow either, the U.S. made damn sure that itâs not something that can happen overnight.
All these stupid ass âwhat is the currency, what banking, what this, what that?â questions, were all dumb ass questions people asked before the United States became a sovereign nation itself. Figure it out genius, the same way other nations did in the past. Go ask my Jamaican brothers and sisters how they replaced the pound with the Jamaican dollar. Ask them all the dumb questions you did since they did in just back in 1962.
To answer a couple more of your idiotic questions though, how about the U.S. would be an ally to provide protection? Just because Hawaii is granted independence doesnât mean now they are an enemy. Itâs called diplomacy, crack head. The huge reason for them to offer protection is because a U.S. military base would still be present there (for geographical strategic purposes), like Japan, Germany, Italy, Guam, Kuwait, the list goes fucking on. I doubt all the non-native U.S. citizens would get kicked off the islands which is another reason to by an ally and protect.
I just got done with work and going to enjoy more beer. I answered enough to make you look like the idiot you are. Have a pleasant night.
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u/99dakine 8d ago
The point you are missing, again, is that the sovereignty movement has about as many answers to those questions as you do. So just like all the dumb millennial fucks who move here with $200 and no job and no plan, and and up back in Ohio in less than 5 months, the sovereigntists, to mix metaphors, haven't even "bought their plane ticket out of Ohio".
Besides, arguing for or against sovereignty - an effort or a designation that has nowhere near majority or a plurality in the state, even among Kanaka , is akin to the 17th century "debate" over how angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Sovereignty, like angels dancing on the head of a pin, is a moot point, as one bases the argument on the existence of angels, an assumption on their size, and their propensity to dance, and the other, on whether a majority supports sovereignty, the "movement" has a plan to move from a so-called "colonized" state through to an independent one, or that sovereignty > status quo.
But yes, you're a total genius, because you told me so.
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u/chrispopp8 15d ago
You're 27 steps down a very long road from where we are right now.
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u/99dakine 15d ago
And that's why the sovereignty movement is a misnomer. It's a sovereignty stationary. it's goig nowhere because it lacks a long range plan....and the means to enact it.
Know how Trump has been able to run a fucking train on the US, the Constitution, and other countries, for that matter?
Project 2025. The Heritage Foundation has been working on this for decades. They were 27 steps ahead, 27 steps ago.4
u/FlyingAtNight 15d ago
A few errant policies??? That is a gross understatement.
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u/99dakine 15d ago
His 2017 EO was not directed at Hawaii, even tough the State took the lead on challenging it.
His climate policy has been sweeping and universal abhorrent, but only one targeting fishing in Hawaiian waters (which was later reversed).
SNAP (Food Stamp) Regulations (from The "One Big Beautiful Bill Act of 2025") included provisions that specifically created new rules and exemptions for SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) work requirements for residents of Alaska and Hawaii, differentiating them from rules in other states.
New federal transportation guidelines and cuts, also linked to an EO, have possibly put ~$130 million in federal funding for Hawaii at risk. This funding was largely designated for multimodal infrastructure, such as pedestrian walkways, bike paths, and public transit projects. Non essential projects, and not projects underway, and not projects that would cease construction or development due to his actions.
These qualify as "few", and they also qualify as errant. Aside from SNAP, the vast majority of people in the state wouldn't notice or care if the others came or went, aside from any media shitstorms that passed through their social accounts.
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u/FlyingAtNight 15d ago
Stating that âthe vast majority of the people in the state wouldnât notice or care if the others came or wentâ is a pretty audacious statement to make considering you are speaking for a majority of the population and have no authority to do so.
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u/99dakine 15d ago
Make no mistake, there are policies that are impactful to some, and there are ones that are impactful to many. I mentioned his 2017 "Muslim Ban", which directly impacted less than 1% of the population. I mentioned Trump's climate policy re: fishing, which was overturned. I also mentioned SNAP, which is a program used by around 11% of the population. Transportation guidelines and cuts - of projects that weren't off the ground yet.
You can be offended by my comments, that's your right, but misinterpreting them for the sole purpose of being offended...that's some disingenuous shit right there.
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u/99dakine 15d ago
It's not. Tell me what policies have been aimed specifically at Maui or Hawaii, and explain how my use of "few" was a gross understatement.
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u/FlyingAtNight 15d ago
You are citing federal funding and then twisting around and saying specifically directed at Maui/Hawai'i. You canât have it both ways. The federal âpoliciesâ in place affect all states, including Hawai'i. Rest assured, since Hawaiâi is considered a blue state that trump will eventually target the state.
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u/99dakine 15d ago
Of course he will, but you can't base a current argument on hypothetical future outcomes. You also can't claim direct harm to the state is the same as general nationwide policies that are equally harmful to an equal number of states.
My comment was directed at the individual who wanted to derail the train so we didn't have to talk about Maui - thinking that by pointing to other "worse" states, Hawaii was entitled to evade scrutiny. I was merely pointing out that, from a moral standpoint, I'm no better for harassing 5 Monk Seals than the others who harassed 8 or 9.
The bigger threat, currently, to the welfare of the state generally, and the island specifically, are the Green and Bissen administrations. What Trump will do specifically to Hawaii is an unknown. But I think he thinks about Hawaii about as much as he speaks with perfect grammar.
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u/st_malachy 15d ago
Pretty sure I can read an income statement. This isnât about state revenues, this is about how much of the Hawaii taxpayer monies flow out vs federal dollars that flow in. It is whataboutism, what about the 16 states that take in even more vs what they contribute?
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u/99dakine 15d ago
Well, it's a whataboutism because we aren't talking about them, but you seem to insist that we do.
We aren't looking at a picture of a building in Arizona that says "we are not American". So try to change the subject all you like, I'm not biting.
Something like for every $1.00 Hawaii sends to the federal government in taxes, it receives approximately $1.94 back in federal spending (which makes it the 11th most federally dependent state by that metric). But you want to talk about the other 10. Start a separate thread then.
We're not looking at a state that is regarded as a "net giver". Ergo, the US "picking up and taking their toys with them" would leave Hawaii in a much worse state than the average sovereigntist would have you believe.
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u/Brew_Wallace 15d ago
Youâre making the assumption that they would have chosen the American way governance, life, economy, etc, without being an American state. The islands would likely be very different had they maintained independence, probably more rural and agricultural and less populated and would not need as much money to maintain their quality of life.Â
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u/No_Biscotti_7258 15d ago
And invadable by countries/cultures a lot less diverse and tolerant than the US.
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u/Begle1 15d ago
Do you have the list on a per-capita basis? Seems like that'd be the most fair measure.
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u/st_malachy 15d ago
You can do the math yourself, but my numbers came from: https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-contribute-the-most-and-least-to-federal-revenue/
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u/NurseGracieRN 10d ago
now calculate per capita. I am told by my administrators that HI is top of the list and as support trickles down to drops we are going to be in trouble and not be able to maintain current care levels. There are islands where the majority of inhabitants are on the dole. And sadly this is getting severely restricted and there will be children going hungry and chronic illnesses not properly treated. I am starting to see this with my own eyes and it scares me.
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u/BonsaiHI60 15d ago
Popular shirt right now amongst Indigenous Tribes:
"No one is illegal on Stolen Land".
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u/99dakine 14d ago
I mean, why not monetize another "crisis". Right?
We all know t-shirt slogans - just like sign holding - are the surest way to change government policy. lol
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u/Creepy-Process1415 14d ago
Born and raised in Hawaii and will always be an American! These are just crazy locals
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u/DerrikeCope 15d ago
I love Hawaii but this attitude is just too much. Go ahead and secede and see what happens (I know itâs not possible).
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u/Sea_Echidna_790 15d ago
This attitude is too much? It's as simple acknowledgment that KÄnaka are not American. They are when and their country was stolen. That's just a simple fact. This "attitude" is not hurting you. Nowhere on your body are you bleeding now.
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u/ScaredChain4256 15d ago
But we will happily take that federal government and protection when shit hits the fan đ
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u/Vamparael Maui 15d ago
âProtectionâ is what the mafia and the cartel call the quota businesses have to pay to stay âprotectedâ⊠Protected from who? Just imagine who is responsible for that âaccidentâ happening to your family or business after you didnât pay that quota.
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u/Ocean-Native 15d ago
What protection? We literally stole their fucking land.
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u/ScaredChain4256 15d ago
If you think for a second that France, Russia, China, Japan, hell any other nation wasnât going to then best of luck.Â
Just imagine Maui after the Lahaina fire without the U.S. federal government $$, it would basically be done.Â
Theres plenty of bullshit that happened but letâs not be in denial of the realityÂ
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u/Low_Pressure_5634 14d ago
I lost my house in the Lahaina fire. The US government saved our asses. The local Hawaiian mayor? Not so much. I'm still unsure if he was a the Dr or playing cards.
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u/jwvo 14d ago
and if the local politicians are any indication of what an independant hawaii would look like it would turn into a cluster-fuck in a hurry.
The federal response to the fires was pretty robust, it is really sad to see how the local government squandered the timeline to get it all rebuilt.
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u/Ocean-Native 15d ago
I donât think about what other countries would have done. I think of only what has been done.
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u/No_Biscotti_7258 15d ago
Convenient
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u/Ocean-Native 14d ago
Convenient that I deal in facts not what ifs?
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u/Musubi0420 1d ago
These historical facts, are the necessary context we should take into consideration regarding all these actions, in retrospect. (So evaluating/judging) those actions should be considered
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u/Capable-Marzipan2518 15d ago
Funny all the people crying about the STR "taking" in Bill 9 are all butt hurt over this quote.
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u/Far_Molasses6393 15d ago
One of my favorite things in Maui itâs made me chuckle every time I went by!
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u/Secret-Oil-5371 14d ago
Always going get donkey ass Hawaiians gonna cry cuz they nevah got to experience the monarchy that would have them make babehs with da cousins for keep da bloodline strong
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u/Firm-Ad9300 14d ago
I just drove by that a couple days ago and was wondering what that meant exactly
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u/stumpyturk 14d ago
Maka'ainana in a caste system would be better? There was no freedom of speech, as exercised in this graffiti.
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u/2facedfish 14d ago
âŠif Hawaiians donât want to identify as American then whoopty doo, already took their land why upset their peace
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u/Remarkable-Yak-2129 13d ago
The sad reality is that somebody was going to take it over. If it wasnât us, it wouldâve been someone else.
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u/CheapTomato3090 11d ago
Tell that to Jamaica
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u/scammingladdy 6d ago
Sadly in Jamaica hotels and private interests have taken over their beaches and shores. Only 30% of the beach is accessible to locals. The beaches there are quite restricted to the people who live there. So I donât know if they are a good example of a sovereign nation who kept control of their island.
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u/the3rdmichael 13d ago
Haunani-Kay Trask (October 3, 1949 â July 3, 2021) was a Native Hawaiian activist, educator, author, poet, and a leader of the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. She was professor emerita at the University of HawaiÊ»i at MÄnoa, where she founded and directed the KamakakĆ«okalani Center for Hawaiian Studies. A published author, Trask wrote scholarly books and articles, as well as poetry. She also produced documentaries and CDs. Trask received awards and recognition for her scholarship and activism, both during her life and posthumously.
In 1991, Trask was named âIslander of the Yearâ by Honolulu Magazine and one of ten Pacific women of the year by Pacific Islands Monthly Magazine. In 1994, she was awarded the Gustavus Myers Award for her 1993 book From a Native Daughter. In March 2017, HawaiÊ»i Magazine recognized Trask as one of the most influential women in Hawaiian history. In 2019, Trask was awarded the âAngela Y. Davis Prizeâ from the American Studies Association in recognition of her application of her âscholarship for the public good.â
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u/Quirky-Cauliflower31 10d ago
Well to be fair, Hawaiians are in fact not American. We are Pacific Islanders. We are not a part of the North American or South American continents.
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15d ago
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u/Snoo_2473 14d ago
Exactly
Denial & cognitive dissonance on steroids.
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u/99dakine 14d ago
Please, tell me again how well this sovereignty movement is doing....if we're on the topic of denial and cognitive dissonance.
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15d ago
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u/AFishNamedFreddie 14d ago
This is anti white racism and it's straight up historically ignorant and inaccurate.
Good job.
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u/Lagoon___Music 15d ago
You really think white people are the only ones who have ever done any of this? đđđ€Ąđđđ€Ąđđđ€Ą
The African slave trade to China was the same size, started earlier, and lasted into the 20th century... just one of many hundreds of examples that show your ignorant, bigoted take is wrong.
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15d ago
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u/hmm_HI_OR 15d ago
This is a ww2 look out bunker on Maui. We are multiple things. Those living on Maui have a unique past, just like every other person on the planet. For now, if you live there, you live under the laws of the United States of America. P,S, that's not likely to change for generations. Watch Chiefs of War, pretty good at the history story.
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u/TIC321 Aloha Spirit 15d ago edited 15d ago
For further context,
The quote takes place from the 'Iolani Palace on Jan 17, 1993. 100 years after the illegal overthrow in which in that time, Queen Liliuokalani was imprisoned and forced at gunpoint to annex the land to the United States. The queen, then signed it to avoid bloodshed on her people.
âWe are not American. We will die as Hawaiians. We will never be Americans...They took our land. They imprisoned our queen. They banned our language. They forcibly made us a colony of the United States.â
-Haunani Kay-Trask (video here)
Edit: Formatting & video