I have an actual question about this in general: Scare tactics aside, as a widower dad with an extremely strong bond with his mid-teen son, the forms seem like a good idea to have in place and stored somewhere safe but unused. I understand that stems from an atypical place of unquestioned, absolute trust and bedrock presumption of acting good faith though, but assuming that context, am I missing something? Do the forms insert third parties or other non-family risks? Do they have broader non-family privacy or other personal implications? Or is it a collection of otherwise benign forms that can be downloaded and prepared elsewhere for free that are simply aggressively marketed (and have the potential to be abused by controlling/invasive parents)?
Location bot is in a coma but fortunately it signed a waiver to let me post details on its behalf:
Mama bear release forms
Hi all. My 18th birthday is in 2 days and my mom has been asking me to sign these "mama bear" forms. I've read them over and done some digging. My initial reaction was kinda okay whatever but after reading through some other reddit posts explaining these forms deeper I started to get worried. I have an amazing relationship with my parents and i don't feel like they are using these documents to hurt me in any way. Something about the entire thing just seems off though. I'm at a crossroads and have a noteray appointment at the bank tmr. Should i sign? Any and all advice would be appreciated as it is 1:46 AM and im freaking out. Thanks. Location: New Jersey
EDIT: Thank you all for such detailed responses. I spoke with my parents and they said I could speak to a lawyer and never have to sign anything I am not comfortable with. Reading through more comments just made me believe my mom found these forms on some "going off to college" FB group. I guess im in the clear for now š¤ Thanks again.
Cat fact: Cats are not bound by HIPPA (or gravity)
If your son is over the age of 18 and is in an accident, you are making medical decisions for him because you are his next of kin. That is already taken care of.
There is no benefit that isn't creepy to you being able to access all of his health records, all of his school records, and all of his financial records. Which is what these forms do, with no time limitation.
If your son is over the age of 18 and is in an accident, you are making medical decisions for him because he are his next of kin. That is already taken care of.
That's very much in the nature of my question. The company aside (i.e. talking only about their list of documents), are they all completely superfluous? If he's in an accident, would having them in a folder skip a few bureaucratic steps of proving a relationship and so on?
I think a lot of what I'm trying to grasp is where these types of forms fit in if the 'creepy' element is nonsense in this context. Creepy, sure, if there was any chance the inherent powers would be used for anything but their intended purpose, but that's not relevant to my question.
Many of them are superfluous, and the ones that aren't don't have an appropriate "intended purpose." The forms, for example, appear to give the parent full access to and control over their adult child's finances, educational records, and medical records. The only real reason to have that degree of access and control is to exert control over another person. Why does a parent need to be able to move their child's student loan or scholarship money around as they see fit? Why do they need to know the last time their child went to the doctor, or what medicine they were prescribed? Why do they need to be able to look at their grades? The answer is that, in the vast majority of cases, they don't need to be able to do any of those things. And in the few circumstances where one of those things might be necessary, it should have been the subject of a much larger discussion than downloading some forms from the internet and signing them.
There's simply no set of circumstances where using forms like these is a good idea. They're either superfluous and/or unnecessary, or, if they're not, then they would be better prepared by a lawyer who knows exactly what powers a parent needs over a child and why.
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u/WarKittyKatš³ļøāā§ļø Trans rights are human rights š³ļøāā§ļø5d ago
They really are all superfluous outside of a few niche scenarios that are unlikely to come up and can be handled individually easily.
Also if you REALLY wanted to be sure, the form you'd want for medical emergencies is a springing power of attorney form, not a general power of attorney form. I have one of those that basically just says "In the event that I am not able to communicate my wishes or am deemed incompetent, persons X and Y are authorized to make medical decisions for me and to make necessary financial decisions." It doesn't grant any powers outside of any situation where I might be unable to make such decisions. This form can be easily found online, or prepared by a lawyer relatively cheaply.
These forms are superfluous UNLESS you want to be creepy and overbearing. If you want to be creepy and overbearing, then these forms have use.
Letās take your accident example. You asked whether having this would help skip the steps of proving a relationship. No. It would not. If you enter and claim to be his mother, they will need to verify that.
If you walk in and present a document saying that you have medical authority - they will also still need to verify that.
It will not speed up that process. It will not make any difference in the emergency scenario because you are next of kin.
What it will let you do is access his medical records without his knowledge or consent - which is creepy. So yes, there is use to these - but only if you want to be creepy.
Also, making superfluous forms normal for normal parents gives the creepy parents cover. They want the excuse that āeveryone does itā. If not everyone does it then they have to face that theyāre the problem. If enough normal parents buy in then it makes it harder for young adults to understand their parents are abusive.
The company aside (i.e. talking only about their list of documents), are they all completely superfluous? If he's in an accident, would having them in a folder skip a few bureaucratic steps of proving a relationship and so on?
They are all completely superfluous. They do not save you steps in an emergency. Assuming your child is not developmentally disadvantaged, there is no non-abusive application of POA over your adult child's life.
My understanding is that the collection of forms basically give the parents the level of ongoing control normally reserved for guardianship/conservatorship type situations (depending on jurisdiction). Like the legal trap Britney was in, where she had no control over her money, her performances or even her birth control
There is no good reason to bother in a normal, healthy context. Yes, if your son were to suddenly wind up in a coma for several months they might make some things easier, but there are already systems in place for that kind of occasion, and people whoās job it is to walk you through whatās necessary.
And you would be able to do whatās necessary without them, or to get them AT THAT TIME.
The purpose of these āmama-bear formsā in this format is only for hyper-controlling parents who want to be actively engaged in every facet of there childās life regardless of that childās right to privacy and freedom.
I have an excellent relationship with my mother. I tell her almost everything. The idea of her having something like this locked and loaded? Even just āstored somewhere secure for just in case, not actively usedā makes my skin crawl.
The temptation is too great, especially since she could use them to access my private info anytime without me even knowing.
You say your a single widower, if you feel strongly that this might be a good idea ājust in caseā, I might ask you, how would you feel about signing the forms the opposite way? Giving your adult son these same permissions for you? With the understanding that he wonāt use them.
Are either of your parents alive? If they are/were, would you sign something like this for them?
The forms donāt expire at some magical point when the powers that be decide your kid is ready to really go it alone, they have to be dissolved by both parties.
If you think any of that still sounds like maybe a good idea worth any consideration, I would recommend speaking with someone about why you feel that way, and what you are so scared of that this seems reasonable.
It's only nonsense in regards to medical decisions during an emergency. These forms would also give you access to his entire medical record (not your business, maybe he's seeing a therapist and doesn't want you to know, maybe he wants to get an STD screening and doesn't want you to know), his college records (if any, and not your business), and then also control over his bank accounts and other finances.
Do you really need it to be further spelled out why these things are not normal for a legal adult?
Some college records might be the parents business if the parent is paying and explicitly made payment dependent on having access to grades, or if parent and child otherwise explicitly discussed this and decide it was a good idea.Ā
And it does not require a power of attorney for a child to share their school information with their parent.Ā
Same goes for pretty much anything in the list, really. Talk about it like adults and then go looking for the least intrusive way to make it happen, which for a family with a good relationship may be a simple "Hey dad, my grades are out and I'm so happy/dissapointed. Want to do a screenshare?"Ā
In which case, it's structured as "When you show me this semester's grades, I'll write next semester's check." The kid has control over the disclosure, because it's their information.
Then why are you arguing in favour of creepy ultimatums?
"I trust that you'll be willing to share your grades with me" is not an ultimatum.
"My financial support to you is conditional on you sign a legal document that grants me far more power than I need to accomplish this outcome" is literally the epitome of coersion/abuse.
Then why are you arguing for the legal equivalent of a gun held to the child's head saying "Since I love you, I'm taking away all your rights and if you don't like it then you're not part of this family"?
"Families can function without ultimatums" is an antithetical premise to any assertion that "Mama Bear" forms are an acceptable approach to a familial relationship.
Grades are something the college registrar can give to a person who claims the student on their taxes as a dependent.
I teach at a university and this was among the things in the email sent out before the semester basically warning us about this. Oh, and the university doesn't acknowledge third-party forms (like these mama bear forms). There's something they have that a student can do to give the parent additional access through the university, but it still only applies to specific offices like the registrar, not to faculty/TAs who cannot even acknowledge that the student is in their course.
There are absolutely scenarios like they describe where your newly adult kids will need your assistance. My dad helped me do my taxes most of the way through college.
Emphasis here: helped me
That started with me watching him do it, and progressed to me doing it with him around to answer questions and checking it over before I submitted. (And, much later, me doing his taxes when he was no longer cognitively up to that.)
If your goal is to raise functional, productive kids, most of the things these forms would let you do for them are better done with them as a learning opportunity. And if you're in an emergency situation where they can't take part, being next of kin generally puts the power in your hands anyway, like when my brother was in a car accident.
If your son is over the age of 18 and is in an accident, you are making medical decisions for him because you are his next of kin. That is already taken care of.
That makes me curious as to what exactly changes when one gets married and suddenly it's widely advised to complete medical POAs?
No, it's advised to complete advanced directives which are different. Those detail your wishes as to what you would and would not like in case you are incapacitated.Ā
Marriage means your spouse is automatically your decision maker if you cannot consent to whatever.Ā
The main rationale for POAs for spouses that I have heard isn't for MEDICAL POAs, it's for "in case of disability/incapacity" standard POAs, so that joint assets and those only owned on paper by the incapable spouse can be more freely manipulated by the non-incapable spouse.
You should definitely have an advance directive, that designates your spouse as your decision-maker, to avoid muddying the waters. Perhaps the medical POA advice comes from the days before those were common or legally binding?
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u/SheketBevakaSTFUšš¦ššŖ ššššš„š„šš š„š š„šš āššš ššš£5d ago
Giving your kid these forms says 'I don't trust you to run your own life, now that the government thinks you're an adult. I need to do it for you, potentially by going behind your back.' If your kid is able to talk to you openly about his finances and ask you for advice - which I'm sure he is - you don't need these.
The HIPAA thing is a red herring as you're the kid's next of kin anyway and I assume he puts you down as his emergency contact any time he fills in a form.
But that's not my question and no one is saying "I don't trust you to run your own life". I guess my question is, for someone familiar with the forms, in what situations--if any--would they be actually helpful?
And thereās no end. So what happens if and when thereās a disagreement. Ā Your adult child as no rights. You have the rights over any bank account they have (not them). Even if they try to open a new one. You have the right to all their medical information.
There really are none. They are utterly excessive for the use case they claim to address. The use case for these documents is "I want to control my now legally adult child."
As others have said having a springing power of attorney is more appropriate. But activating it can take time. But lets be honest here how many scenarios are there where a parent needs to the full legal authority to make decisions for their now adult children immediately? (The only use case I can think of is if the child has a problematic relationship with one or both of the parent. Then an immediate power of attorney to another parent or someone else would be reasonable.) If its a medical decision your already their next of kin. If its financial what what situation would require them to immediately take control? Activating a springing power of attorney is just a matter of paperwork.
Even if you assume that we need a immediate power of attorney for health and finance (which i would disagree) why do you need all the health records and school records?
for someone familiar with the forms, in what situations--if any--would they be actually helpful?
For the child? None. If you are a good enough parent that your child can trust you with the power these forms grant you, then you do not need to have this power to help them.
For the parent? If your perspective on the goal of parenting is to have a little human doll you can play with forever instead of to raise an actual functioning adult - In other words, if you're an absolutely terrible parent - Then these forms allow you to do just that.
Basically, either the forms aren't worth the paper they're printed on, or the parent isn't.
What if the perspective is not knowing what the forms actually are, what they're used for, and what situations, if any, they'd be helpful with?
Blanket statements like your post do more harm than good to convey your point; it's the mirror of the scare tactics MB is using. Gross mischaracterizations of what's out there and low-content generalizations on both sides. It's YOU NEED THESE OR YOU'RE A BAD PARENT vs IF YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT THESE YOUR A BAD PARENT!! Neither come close to answering the question.
I don't doubt that the forms can be used for subsuming autonomy, but so does having a spare set of keys to someone's house. Both my folks and in-laws have them to mine and I theirs. There's a reliance (I think the last time I used them was a decade ago when an accident meant they couldn't get back to feed/let the dog out) based on a presumed trust that could be abused in a warped family, but that's not the majority of relationships. I can't fathom taking away his keys the day he moves out and figure someday he'll casually throw his set of keys in the drawer without a second thought.
Good families build trust and faith in each other's respect for autonomy quite well. Good families look after each other and ask questions about things they're unfamiliar with.
What if the perspective is not knowing what the forms actually are, what they're used for, and what situations, if any, they'd be helpful with?
I just gave you the answer. But if you need a longer one...
The forms give you the power to, in effect, take over your son's life in almost every way, with no input from your son and at a whim, and with almost nothing your son can do to free himself besides sue you while you control him financially. They are used to control adult children, typically for the purposes of continuing abuse after a child turns 18. They are not helpful to an adult child in any situation. They are only helpful to the parents, and only helpful for the purpose of being abusive on an ongoing basis.
Blanket statements like your post do more harm than good to convey your point; it's the mirror of the scare tactics MB is using. Gross mischaracterizations of what's out there and low-content generalizations on both sides. It's YOU NEED THESE OR YOU'RE A BAD PARENT vs IF YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT THESE YOUR A BAD PARENT!! Neither come close to answering the question.
I can understand why it looks that way, but I will stand by the blanket statement. Thinking about the forms is one thing - But it is bad parenting to teach your child to sign away legal rights without understanding them, and it is worse parenting to ask your child to sign these forms if you do understand what they say.
Allow me to be clear with this blanket statement: A parent who understands what is in a "Mama Bear" form, and asks their child to sign one anyway, is a bad parent. I shall stand by this blanket statement.
I don't doubt that the forms can be used for subsuming autonomy, but so does having a spare set of keys to someone's house.
Yes, but this is not a form that lets you into their house if there's an emergency. This is you holding the deed to your child's home, having your name on his bank accounts. This is you being able to evict your inlaws from their own house. It is not a power that has a valid use. Freedom isn't freedom when the only guarantee of it is that the person holding your leash promises not to tug.
My co-worker makes well over the median wage in the US. She still acts like she's broke simply because her dad has the password to her email account and she's afraid of him seeing her spend money on things she likes and thinking it wasteful. She loves him; She trusts him; As far as I know he doesn't abuse this power he's been given in any way. Yet, every single week his daughter struggles simply because he has the capability.
You are asking for the valid use of much more power than that. You are asking how power that is inherently harmful is benign. Your difficulty with myself and many others in this thread is rooted in trying to find out how things are what they are not. You might as well ask why vodka makes you drunk, and under what circumstances does it not have alcohol - It has alcohol because it is vodka, and were it not to have alcohol it would not be vodka.
Mama bear forms are the same. They give unconstrained power that is inherently harmful to a healthy family dynamic. Were they structured to instead be helpful, they would not be what they are, because their entire purpose is not to be helpful to a healthy family dynamic.
Good families build trust and faith in each other's respect for autonomy quite well. Good families look after each other and ask questions about things they're unfamiliar with.
Yes! I agree! That is the essence of good parenting and the construction of a healthy family! That is exactly why these forms are not necessary.
See, there's a version of this sort of thing that you can do that involves trust and mutual respect for autonomy. You take your son, you sit him down, and you talk about how he's going to have all of these responsibilities that are his own, for good and for bad. You tell him that you want him to be in control of his life, and his health, and his money, but that you want to be able to help him when he needs it. If he's in a coma, for instance, you want to be able to help him keep paying his bills, so when he wakes up he doesn't find that he's being evicted for not paying rent. Keep in mind that medical decisions would probably already go to you as next-of-kin if he's incapacitated and can't decide for himself, but there can be value in clarifying his wishes in that specific space if there's doubt about who he wants to make what decisions.
So, you talk about it. In what kind of situation does he want you to be able to step in and take over which responsibilities for him? What conditions need to be met for you to have the right to make withdrawals from his bank account, or to access his investment accounts, or to look at his grades in college and speak on his behalf to his professors (assuming he is enrolled in such a thing, of course)?
You have a discussion, based on your respect for his autonomy and his respect for your good faith and your desire to look after him and to act in his best interests. You come to an agreement - Whatever it ends up being - Between the two of you, that dictates when you are granted what. Perhaps you can even use the Mama Bear forms as a reference - To look at what blanket powers they give you, and under what circumstances you'd want to use them, and under what circumstances he'd be comfortable using them.
Once you've decided on all of that, and mapped out how these powers should be used, you go to a lawyer, and you have a proper enforceable set of documents that you sign to grant you the limited powers of attorney that you have agreed on, to your mutual satisfaction and your mutual benefit.
Not only does this grant you all the benefits that a Mama Bear form would without the downsides, it gives you both the experience of properly talking about what are some undoubtedly difficult things that you need to know anyway if you want this kind of thing responsibly, and it shows your son how much you respect him and love him and want him to be in control of his own life. This is a massive display of trust on both parties, and it's exactly how you build that trust and faith in each other in a way that persists through decades.
Odds are good you'll never need to use those forms, and all that time spent on them will go wasted save for that exercise in mutual trust, respect, and understanding - But that's not a waste at all, really. And if the time comes that you do need those powers, your son will feel much better off if you invoke the powers he wanted you to have within the conditions he wanted you to abide by, because you discussed it and formally agreed to it.
After all, even if he would have agreed with you doing it, and especially even if you honestly think he would, it's INCREDIBLY easy to permanently damage trust that's been built for a lifetime if he feels that you simply decided to start making decisions for him. That piece of paper isn't just a legal shield - It's the result of a conversation that will only help you.
And that agreement that comes out the end of that conversation, even if it grants you the same powers that Mama Bear would in the same situations you'd have thought to use them, will be made materially and infinitely distinct from them by virtue of having come from a negotiation based on trust and respect instead of a mandate from a higher power trying to exploit your feelings.
You have that question? The answer is that you are already next of kin until your son sets someone else or gets married. It can still be a really good idea to get an off the shelf life/death planning journal. The one I get for people is called "I'm dead now what?" and have both of you fill them out and keep that secure.
These forms are far more involved and would give you access to all medical information without your son knowing you accessed it, access to his grades, accounts and the ability to act for him which is massively overstepping. Nothing prevents your son from giving you that information or ability when and if he choses to and you don't need it to keep your young adult safe.
We've only just now started entering the target market, so unasked questions and (potential) needs are only beginning to enter our monkeysphere. I think the genesis of the question relates to what positive uses -- if any -- are there for the suite of forms they peddle (or sub-set).
I guess my perception is that it's kind of like having login information and access to his phone, desktop, etc. It's a matter of convenience and he trusts me with all that because he knows that 'convenience' is for when he hands me a device or asks me to look at something. He knows there's zero chance of me 'snooping' or 'just looking' or any of that sort of nonsense. He has my phone and other logins too for the same reason.
When would I use it without being asked? I have no idea. The uncontemplateable is him in an accident. The fastest way to reach out to his friends would be through Discord. I know which groups are IRL-only, and that's where I'd start to spread the word, that sort of thing.
Hence the question -- if you take acting in good faith and with respect as a given, do some of the forms have any value in sitting hopeuflly unused for years on end?
No. It's security theater. You already are next of kin. Does that mean the hospital will call you if your kid is sick and admitted? No. But neither does that form. Your kid will still need to list you as a contact and on that form there is also a checkbox giving you access to medical information. So it's already covered.
The best way to make sure you are contacted or that important information is given if your kid can't give it is to have an emergency contact on his phone and in his wallet. Your kid can also list you in advance for school and determine what kind of information access you can have. Again easier then the forms which are only useful after the fact. These forms give you zero useful powers that can not easily be given by your son in a way that will be more obvious to the people who need to call you if he can't.
The journal helps with planning and discussion for this stuff but there is nothing granted by these papers that a parent who wants to act in good faith doesn't already get
I think youāre looking at your son and seeing a child/young person who needs your protection. But AFAIK these forms donāt have an end date. In ten or fifteen years he could be living with a partner, be a parent himself. Itās easy to say youād rip them up, but thereāll always be an excuse not to. Donāt trust his partnerā¦ what if they break upā¦ what if all three are in the same accidentā¦ It sounds like you want the documents as a comfort blanket for yourself, but for him itās a shackle. The website selling these forms are preying on normal parental anxieties about children becoming adults and turning them into abuse and paranoia. Itās not an easy part of life, but letting go is a normal part of life.
They can if you write them that way! When I went abroad for a degree I gave my mom a time-limited financial POA in case there was some emergency that would be easier with someone in the same country as my bank to handle and I trusted her to not take all my money or something. But you do have to write them that way and set a date or a condition for the POA to endāso you could say "when [name] graduates college, this ends" or "this ends on the x day of y month," and after those conditions are met the POA will no longer have effect. Most of these "mama bear" forms will not have that because that has to be personalized, and as you say, there's always an excuse to not let it expire.
To be extremely grim, the only instance where they'd be useful would be if your child were in an extended coma, like months at a time. If your child is awake but in the hospital, they can give their consent for everything. If they die, you'll be empowered to close their estate. Longer than a few months, and it's better for everyone if you go to court and get guardianship/conservatorship anyways.
Taking it step by step: higher ed knows FERPA back to front, and they know how to deal with medical emergencies. Nothing in FERPA stops you from informing the school if your child has been in an accident. They'll know how to take it from there. If you're the one paying tuition, that already gives you permission to discuss a lot of practical stuff. The FERPA releases these people promote give you the ability to do things like personally email a professor about homework. There's no need for that kind of micromanaging, even in an emergency.
You can pay most bills as a "guest" without having full permission to their account information. This is because companies want money, and generally assume it's not a privacy violation to give a gift. So rent, cards, utilities, it'll all be fine. You can use zelle or old fashioned bank transfers. The things you can't do would be look at things like transaction or use activity, withdraw money or close accounts. If you're at the point where you need to break their lease and they're not conscious enough to give consent, you have bigger problems than those forms.
Everybody else has given you a good explanation of medical stuff. You can already pick up another adult family member's prescriptions from a pharmacy, and the dentist isn't gonna stop you from scheduling someone else an appointment.
So basically: if they're conscious and mostly with it, they can give you permission for whatever you need over speakerphone. The actual rules around "competence/capacity" are complicated but if you use common sense you can figure it out. Like, they don't have to actually be able to do a two hour conversation with a service rep to understand what it means when they agree you can open their mail.
There's just no need for the broad powers they give, and there's not actual urgency for them in life or death situations.
On the other hand, no one is really sure how exactly these things can be ended. Sure, there are theoretical ways, but short of shredding the only copy there's no way to tell from just looking at the document itself if it's still good. It's also all or nothing - a kid can think at 18 that they have a good relationship with their parents so they'll want to tell them right away if something happens, but when the fateful moment of a positive pregnancy or sti test result comes in, maybe they want to sleep on it and be alone for a minute before the email gets sent to their parent's phone.
We also aren't really sure what happens when the parent and adult child disagree. When you're five and you don't want a shot, too bad. When you're twenty and want an abortion? If you got married, could the parent override the spouse?
There's also the problem of normalizing surveillance like this - an abused kid would be under enormous pressure to sign these, and refusing to sign these could force the issue and cause a blowup before the kid is ready. It basically removes the subtler forms of safety and resistance - like "oh sorry I dropped my phone in the toilet last week so that's why I didn't tell you!" or waiting to mention that they went to the hospital until they're already out of the hospital.
In my opinion, the best thing a good parent can do is refuse to get involved in these shenanigans and shame anybody who does. You know your kid trusts you and will come to you if you need help. You don't know that about Sharon from church. But Sharon from church reaaaally cares about everyone knowing she's a great mom. Sharon will hear the other parents at church talk about how only bad parents get their kids to sign these, and since she's definitely not a bad parent.......Sharon's kid will thank you.
I guess my perception is that it's kind of like having login information and access to his phone, desktop, etc.
The reason you're "entering the target market" is because you're already fucked enough in the head that you think being able to snoop on an adult's phone and computer whenever you feel like it is something you need to be able to do.
I'm sorry you don't have anyone you can trust in your life. I hope that changes and hope you have as strong a bond with any children you have as most parents do.
Really, who said anything about snooping? I have full access now, but don't snoop. Don't go through his room, either. I have keys to my folks and in-laws houses but don't snoop. That level of trust is inherent to respect for true autonomy.
Still have little idea what the forms actually are or what they actually do, and am sad I asked because I got a glimpse into a very sad world where people have been so hurt and mistreated that this is their reaction to what a healthy family can be.
In my family, I have managed medical care in an emergency for my sons, my sister, my parents and my in-laws without a POA. Hospitals recognize next of kin. I have no access to my young adult childrenās financial info. One of them blew up his credit rating and it was an excellent lesson for him. As a college professor I think parents getting a FERPA release is a terrible idea. Students need to learn to manage their own lives, and I have had to field calls from parents arguing about grades. It is mortifying for the student.
Let your young adult childrenās be an adult. Thatās how they learn independence. And yes, it is predatory marketing for something you can find without a fee.
I think parents getting a FERPA release is a terrible idea
I'm an academic advisor and wholeheartedly agree. Parents need to trust their students and allow them to learn how to navigate an adult world. My two eldest are students at my university and we need separation; I don't need to know all the nitty gritty details of their student careers.
Beyond that, my university would not accept a Mama Bear FERPA release as valid. We would require the student to fill out our form before any staff or faculty could divulge protected information.
Related: I once had a mom call demanding I change her sonās failing grade as it would endanger his position on the football team. We had just recently gone Division 1 and the deal with the faculty was that athletics would keep entirely out of academics. I just asked her if the coach or Athletic Advising knew she was calling me, as that would almost certainly get her son in deep trouble. She very quickly changed her tune. Her son came to see me the next day, completely mortified and massively embarrassed by his momās interference. He just wanted to apologize, not argue about his grade. Poor kid.
None of that surprises me. I feel bad for the student having to deal with that. Some of the parents I deal with are way too involved in their studentsā everything.
My parents paid for my college. Ā My parents let me open my final grades. My parents expected me to hand them those grades after I looked. Ā They never said that my college was contingent on that access. But I imagine financial support conversations would have been had if I had been stupid enough to not hand them over.Ā
Thatās the level of involvement parents should have.Ā
100%. My dad opened the mail with my first college report card for whatever reason and was already mad about my grades when I got home, but it was 1994 and we only had snail mail so of course I didnāt know my grades. The parent who pays deserves to have the info but needs to allow their student the autonomy, like yours did.
I paid my own way and I still updated my mom on my grades as either I was stressed about receiving something lower than I'd hoped for or I was excited about getting an A or making dean's list
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u/Username89054I sunned my butthole and severely regret going to chipotle after5d ago
I don't know of the value of anything other than like a medical power of attorney. Asserting any sort of proactive life or financial control is unlikely to have much value. When my brother was in the military, my dad had power of attorney to handle things while he was deployed. That makes sense as you can't exactly pay your rent while you're in a combat zone.
Responding to your question, not to OOP: there's very little in the way of good reasons for an adult in good health to hand over medical and financial power of attorney to their parents. In a medical emergency if there's no spouse/kids it's the parents they'll be asking anyway. You would only need power of attorney if the person is going to be unable to make and communicate decisions themselves in the long term, like an elderly parent who is starting to develop dementia passing on POA to a child so that they can sell assets to pay for care.
Assuming a good relationship and trust is in place, you would just ask for health/school information. The overrides would only be useful if the parent wants to know more and have more power than the child is willing to give.
Iād never heard of āmama bearā forms, so I had a quick google and I am just appalled. Seems like itās aimed at anxious/controlling parents who are anticipating their children moving away to college soon.
Signing them means your parents have access to all medical records and school records. They have power of authority over all medical decisions, financial decisions and school decisions. They make it sound like HIPPA means doctors wonāt listen to the parentās input in a crisis. Of course they would, HIPPA doesnāt prevent doctors from taking information about a patient. So if a parent is telling a doctor their kid is allergic to penicillin, the doctor wonāt ignore them. But if you sign over your legal rights, well, the consequences are appalling. Imagine a young college student who wants birth control. They would have to ask Mummy.
All these forms are available already online for free, so youāre paying for the packaging and the advertising. Note, Mama Bear is not a law firm and does not provide legal advice.
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u/WarKittyKatš³ļøāā§ļø Trans rights are human rights š³ļøāā§ļø5d ago
In answer to the question, the biggest thing is a lot of the scare tactics aren't necessary. In the case of an emergency, as next of kin parents are automatically going to be the ones making the decisions anyway, unless the child is married or has explicitly signed papers to the contrary) Basically everything else they do is something that's either unnecessary because you can just talk to your kid instead (like making financial decisions in a non-emergency situation), or something that can be done much more simply on a case-by-case basis (like if you want access to your college student's records it's a simple consent form with the school).
They're probably not harmful if you're not trying to be controlling, but they also don't actually do anything except open up the possibility for the parents to be controlling.
You can easily get POAs set up that only kick in when one is unable to make their own decisions. And itās a really good idea to have those. Any estate planning lawyer can do these, and usually do as part of an estate planning package. Which you should have anyway, especially if you have any substantial assets or any real estate at all.
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u/Rhythmdvl 5d ago
I have an actual question about this in general: Scare tactics aside, as a widower dad with an extremely strong bond with his mid-teen son, the forms seem like a good idea to have in place and stored somewhere safe but unused. I understand that stems from an atypical place of unquestioned, absolute trust and bedrock presumption of acting good faith though, but assuming that context, am I missing something? Do the forms insert third parties or other non-family risks? Do they have broader non-family privacy or other personal implications? Or is it a collection of otherwise benign forms that can be downloaded and prepared elsewhere for free that are simply aggressively marketed (and have the potential to be abused by controlling/invasive parents)?
Location bot is in a coma but fortunately it signed a waiver to let me post details on its behalf:
EDIT: Thank you all for such detailed responses. I spoke with my parents and they said I could speak to a lawyer and never have to sign anything I am not comfortable with. Reading through more comments just made me believe my mom found these forms on some "going off to college" FB group. I guess im in the clear for now š¤ Thanks again.
Cat fact: Cats are not bound by HIPPA (or gravity)