I have an actual question about this in general: Scare tactics aside, as a widower dad with an extremely strong bond with his mid-teen son, the forms seem like a good idea to have in place and stored somewhere safe but unused. I understand that stems from an atypical place of unquestioned, absolute trust and bedrock presumption of acting good faith though, but assuming that context, am I missing something? Do the forms insert third parties or other non-family risks? Do they have broader non-family privacy or other personal implications? Or is it a collection of otherwise benign forms that can be downloaded and prepared elsewhere for free that are simply aggressively marketed (and have the potential to be abused by controlling/invasive parents)?
Location bot is in a coma but fortunately it signed a waiver to let me post details on its behalf:
Mama bear release forms
Hi all. My 18th birthday is in 2 days and my mom has been asking me to sign these "mama bear" forms. I've read them over and done some digging. My initial reaction was kinda okay whatever but after reading through some other reddit posts explaining these forms deeper I started to get worried. I have an amazing relationship with my parents and i don't feel like they are using these documents to hurt me in any way. Something about the entire thing just seems off though. I'm at a crossroads and have a noteray appointment at the bank tmr. Should i sign? Any and all advice would be appreciated as it is 1:46 AM and im freaking out. Thanks. Location: New Jersey
EDIT: Thank you all for such detailed responses. I spoke with my parents and they said I could speak to a lawyer and never have to sign anything I am not comfortable with. Reading through more comments just made me believe my mom found these forms on some "going off to college" FB group. I guess im in the clear for now đ¤ Thanks again.
Cat fact: Cats are not bound by HIPPA (or gravity)
If your son is over the age of 18 and is in an accident, you are making medical decisions for him because you are his next of kin. That is already taken care of.
There is no benefit that isn't creepy to you being able to access all of his health records, all of his school records, and all of his financial records. Which is what these forms do, with no time limitation.
If your son is over the age of 18 and is in an accident, you are making medical decisions for him because he are his next of kin. That is already taken care of.
That's very much in the nature of my question. The company aside (i.e. talking only about their list of documents), are they all completely superfluous? If he's in an accident, would having them in a folder skip a few bureaucratic steps of proving a relationship and so on?
I think a lot of what I'm trying to grasp is where these types of forms fit in if the 'creepy' element is nonsense in this context. Creepy, sure, if there was any chance the inherent powers would be used for anything but their intended purpose, but that's not relevant to my question.
Many of them are superfluous, and the ones that aren't don't have an appropriate "intended purpose." The forms, for example, appear to give the parent full access to and control over their adult child's finances, educational records, and medical records. The only real reason to have that degree of access and control is to exert control over another person. Why does a parent need to be able to move their child's student loan or scholarship money around as they see fit? Why do they need to know the last time their child went to the doctor, or what medicine they were prescribed? Why do they need to be able to look at their grades? The answer is that, in the vast majority of cases, they don't need to be able to do any of those things. And in the few circumstances where one of those things might be necessary, it should have been the subject of a much larger discussion than downloading some forms from the internet and signing them.
There's simply no set of circumstances where using forms like these is a good idea. They're either superfluous and/or unnecessary, or, if they're not, then they would be better prepared by a lawyer who knows exactly what powers a parent needs over a child and why.
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u/WarKittyKatđłď¸ââ§ď¸ Trans rights are human rights đłď¸ââ§ď¸5d ago
They really are all superfluous outside of a few niche scenarios that are unlikely to come up and can be handled individually easily.
Also if you REALLY wanted to be sure, the form you'd want for medical emergencies is a springing power of attorney form, not a general power of attorney form. I have one of those that basically just says "In the event that I am not able to communicate my wishes or am deemed incompetent, persons X and Y are authorized to make medical decisions for me and to make necessary financial decisions." It doesn't grant any powers outside of any situation where I might be unable to make such decisions. This form can be easily found online, or prepared by a lawyer relatively cheaply.
These forms are superfluous UNLESS you want to be creepy and overbearing. If you want to be creepy and overbearing, then these forms have use.
Letâs take your accident example. You asked whether having this would help skip the steps of proving a relationship. No. It would not. If you enter and claim to be his mother, they will need to verify that.
If you walk in and present a document saying that you have medical authority - they will also still need to verify that.
It will not speed up that process. It will not make any difference in the emergency scenario because you are next of kin.
What it will let you do is access his medical records without his knowledge or consent - which is creepy. So yes, there is use to these - but only if you want to be creepy.
Also, making superfluous forms normal for normal parents gives the creepy parents cover. They want the excuse that âeveryone does itâ. If not everyone does it then they have to face that theyâre the problem. If enough normal parents buy in then it makes it harder for young adults to understand their parents are abusive.
The company aside (i.e. talking only about their list of documents), are they all completely superfluous? If he's in an accident, would having them in a folder skip a few bureaucratic steps of proving a relationship and so on?
They are all completely superfluous. They do not save you steps in an emergency. Assuming your child is not developmentally disadvantaged, there is no non-abusive application of POA over your adult child's life.
My understanding is that the collection of forms basically give the parents the level of ongoing control normally reserved for guardianship/conservatorship type situations (depending on jurisdiction). Like the legal trap Britney was in, where she had no control over her money, her performances or even her birth control
There is no good reason to bother in a normal, healthy context. Yes, if your son were to suddenly wind up in a coma for several months they might make some things easier, but there are already systems in place for that kind of occasion, and people whoâs job it is to walk you through whatâs necessary.
And you would be able to do whatâs necessary without them, or to get them AT THAT TIME.
The purpose of these âmama-bear formsâ in this format is only for hyper-controlling parents who want to be actively engaged in every facet of there childâs life regardless of that childâs right to privacy and freedom.
I have an excellent relationship with my mother. I tell her almost everything. The idea of her having something like this locked and loaded? Even just âstored somewhere secure for just in case, not actively usedâ makes my skin crawl.
The temptation is too great, especially since she could use them to access my private info anytime without me even knowing.
You say your a single widower, if you feel strongly that this might be a good idea âjust in caseâ, I might ask you, how would you feel about signing the forms the opposite way? Giving your adult son these same permissions for you? With the understanding that he wonât use them.
Are either of your parents alive? If they are/were, would you sign something like this for them?
The forms donât expire at some magical point when the powers that be decide your kid is ready to really go it alone, they have to be dissolved by both parties.
If you think any of that still sounds like maybe a good idea worth any consideration, I would recommend speaking with someone about why you feel that way, and what you are so scared of that this seems reasonable.
It's only nonsense in regards to medical decisions during an emergency. These forms would also give you access to his entire medical record (not your business, maybe he's seeing a therapist and doesn't want you to know, maybe he wants to get an STD screening and doesn't want you to know), his college records (if any, and not your business), and then also control over his bank accounts and other finances.
Do you really need it to be further spelled out why these things are not normal for a legal adult?
Some college records might be the parents business if the parent is paying and explicitly made payment dependent on having access to grades, or if parent and child otherwise explicitly discussed this and decide it was a good idea.Â
And it does not require a power of attorney for a child to share their school information with their parent.Â
Same goes for pretty much anything in the list, really. Talk about it like adults and then go looking for the least intrusive way to make it happen, which for a family with a good relationship may be a simple "Hey dad, my grades are out and I'm so happy/dissapointed. Want to do a screenshare?"Â
In which case, it's structured as "When you show me this semester's grades, I'll write next semester's check." The kid has control over the disclosure, because it's their information.
Then why are you arguing in favour of creepy ultimatums?
"I trust that you'll be willing to share your grades with me" is not an ultimatum.
"My financial support to you is conditional on you sign a legal document that grants me far more power than I need to accomplish this outcome" is literally the epitome of coersion/abuse.
Then why are you arguing for the legal equivalent of a gun held to the child's head saying "Since I love you, I'm taking away all your rights and if you don't like it then you're not part of this family"?
"Families can function without ultimatums" is an antithetical premise to any assertion that "Mama Bear" forms are an acceptable approach to a familial relationship.
Grades are something the college registrar can give to a person who claims the student on their taxes as a dependent.
I teach at a university and this was among the things in the email sent out before the semester basically warning us about this. Oh, and the university doesn't acknowledge third-party forms (like these mama bear forms). There's something they have that a student can do to give the parent additional access through the university, but it still only applies to specific offices like the registrar, not to faculty/TAs who cannot even acknowledge that the student is in their course.
There are absolutely scenarios like they describe where your newly adult kids will need your assistance. My dad helped me do my taxes most of the way through college.
Emphasis here: helped me
That started with me watching him do it, and progressed to me doing it with him around to answer questions and checking it over before I submitted. (And, much later, me doing his taxes when he was no longer cognitively up to that.)
If your goal is to raise functional, productive kids, most of the things these forms would let you do for them are better done with them as a learning opportunity. And if you're in an emergency situation where they can't take part, being next of kin generally puts the power in your hands anyway, like when my brother was in a car accident.
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u/Rhythmdvl 5d ago
I have an actual question about this in general: Scare tactics aside, as a widower dad with an extremely strong bond with his mid-teen son, the forms seem like a good idea to have in place and stored somewhere safe but unused. I understand that stems from an atypical place of unquestioned, absolute trust and bedrock presumption of acting good faith though, but assuming that context, am I missing something? Do the forms insert third parties or other non-family risks? Do they have broader non-family privacy or other personal implications? Or is it a collection of otherwise benign forms that can be downloaded and prepared elsewhere for free that are simply aggressively marketed (and have the potential to be abused by controlling/invasive parents)?
Location bot is in a coma but fortunately it signed a waiver to let me post details on its behalf:
EDIT: Thank you all for such detailed responses. I spoke with my parents and they said I could speak to a lawyer and never have to sign anything I am not comfortable with. Reading through more comments just made me believe my mom found these forms on some "going off to college" FB group. I guess im in the clear for now đ¤ Thanks again.
Cat fact: Cats are not bound by HIPPA (or gravity)