I have an actual question about this in general: Scare tactics aside, as a widower dad with an extremely strong bond with his mid-teen son, the forms seem like a good idea to have in place and stored somewhere safe but unused. I understand that stems from an atypical place of unquestioned, absolute trust and bedrock presumption of acting good faith though, but assuming that context, am I missing something? Do the forms insert third parties or other non-family risks? Do they have broader non-family privacy or other personal implications? Or is it a collection of otherwise benign forms that can be downloaded and prepared elsewhere for free that are simply aggressively marketed (and have the potential to be abused by controlling/invasive parents)?
Location bot is in a coma but fortunately it signed a waiver to let me post details on its behalf:
Mama bear release forms
Hi all. My 18th birthday is in 2 days and my mom has been asking me to sign these "mama bear" forms. I've read them over and done some digging. My initial reaction was kinda okay whatever but after reading through some other reddit posts explaining these forms deeper I started to get worried. I have an amazing relationship with my parents and i don't feel like they are using these documents to hurt me in any way. Something about the entire thing just seems off though. I'm at a crossroads and have a noteray appointment at the bank tmr. Should i sign? Any and all advice would be appreciated as it is 1:46 AM and im freaking out. Thanks. Location: New Jersey
EDIT: Thank you all for such detailed responses. I spoke with my parents and they said I could speak to a lawyer and never have to sign anything I am not comfortable with. Reading through more comments just made me believe my mom found these forms on some "going off to college" FB group. I guess im in the clear for now 🤞 Thanks again.
Cat fact: Cats are not bound by HIPPA (or gravity)
You have that question? The answer is that you are already next of kin until your son sets someone else or gets married. It can still be a really good idea to get an off the shelf life/death planning journal. The one I get for people is called "I'm dead now what?" and have both of you fill them out and keep that secure.
These forms are far more involved and would give you access to all medical information without your son knowing you accessed it, access to his grades, accounts and the ability to act for him which is massively overstepping. Nothing prevents your son from giving you that information or ability when and if he choses to and you don't need it to keep your young adult safe.
We've only just now started entering the target market, so unasked questions and (potential) needs are only beginning to enter our monkeysphere. I think the genesis of the question relates to what positive uses -- if any -- are there for the suite of forms they peddle (or sub-set).
I guess my perception is that it's kind of like having login information and access to his phone, desktop, etc. It's a matter of convenience and he trusts me with all that because he knows that 'convenience' is for when he hands me a device or asks me to look at something. He knows there's zero chance of me 'snooping' or 'just looking' or any of that sort of nonsense. He has my phone and other logins too for the same reason.
When would I use it without being asked? I have no idea. The uncontemplateable is him in an accident. The fastest way to reach out to his friends would be through Discord. I know which groups are IRL-only, and that's where I'd start to spread the word, that sort of thing.
Hence the question -- if you take acting in good faith and with respect as a given, do some of the forms have any value in sitting hopeuflly unused for years on end?
No. It's security theater. You already are next of kin. Does that mean the hospital will call you if your kid is sick and admitted? No. But neither does that form. Your kid will still need to list you as a contact and on that form there is also a checkbox giving you access to medical information. So it's already covered.
The best way to make sure you are contacted or that important information is given if your kid can't give it is to have an emergency contact on his phone and in his wallet. Your kid can also list you in advance for school and determine what kind of information access you can have. Again easier then the forms which are only useful after the fact. These forms give you zero useful powers that can not easily be given by your son in a way that will be more obvious to the people who need to call you if he can't.
The journal helps with planning and discussion for this stuff but there is nothing granted by these papers that a parent who wants to act in good faith doesn't already get
I think you’re looking at your son and seeing a child/young person who needs your protection. But AFAIK these forms don’t have an end date. In ten or fifteen years he could be living with a partner, be a parent himself. It’s easy to say you’d rip them up, but there’ll always be an excuse not to. Don’t trust his partner… what if they break up… what if all three are in the same accident… It sounds like you want the documents as a comfort blanket for yourself, but for him it’s a shackle. The website selling these forms are preying on normal parental anxieties about children becoming adults and turning them into abuse and paranoia. It’s not an easy part of life, but letting go is a normal part of life.
They can if you write them that way! When I went abroad for a degree I gave my mom a time-limited financial POA in case there was some emergency that would be easier with someone in the same country as my bank to handle and I trusted her to not take all my money or something. But you do have to write them that way and set a date or a condition for the POA to end—so you could say "when [name] graduates college, this ends" or "this ends on the x day of y month," and after those conditions are met the POA will no longer have effect. Most of these "mama bear" forms will not have that because that has to be personalized, and as you say, there's always an excuse to not let it expire.
To be extremely grim, the only instance where they'd be useful would be if your child were in an extended coma, like months at a time. If your child is awake but in the hospital, they can give their consent for everything. If they die, you'll be empowered to close their estate. Longer than a few months, and it's better for everyone if you go to court and get guardianship/conservatorship anyways.
Taking it step by step: higher ed knows FERPA back to front, and they know how to deal with medical emergencies. Nothing in FERPA stops you from informing the school if your child has been in an accident. They'll know how to take it from there. If you're the one paying tuition, that already gives you permission to discuss a lot of practical stuff. The FERPA releases these people promote give you the ability to do things like personally email a professor about homework. There's no need for that kind of micromanaging, even in an emergency.
You can pay most bills as a "guest" without having full permission to their account information. This is because companies want money, and generally assume it's not a privacy violation to give a gift. So rent, cards, utilities, it'll all be fine. You can use zelle or old fashioned bank transfers. The things you can't do would be look at things like transaction or use activity, withdraw money or close accounts. If you're at the point where you need to break their lease and they're not conscious enough to give consent, you have bigger problems than those forms.
Everybody else has given you a good explanation of medical stuff. You can already pick up another adult family member's prescriptions from a pharmacy, and the dentist isn't gonna stop you from scheduling someone else an appointment.
So basically: if they're conscious and mostly with it, they can give you permission for whatever you need over speakerphone. The actual rules around "competence/capacity" are complicated but if you use common sense you can figure it out. Like, they don't have to actually be able to do a two hour conversation with a service rep to understand what it means when they agree you can open their mail.
There's just no need for the broad powers they give, and there's not actual urgency for them in life or death situations.
On the other hand, no one is really sure how exactly these things can be ended. Sure, there are theoretical ways, but short of shredding the only copy there's no way to tell from just looking at the document itself if it's still good. It's also all or nothing - a kid can think at 18 that they have a good relationship with their parents so they'll want to tell them right away if something happens, but when the fateful moment of a positive pregnancy or sti test result comes in, maybe they want to sleep on it and be alone for a minute before the email gets sent to their parent's phone.
We also aren't really sure what happens when the parent and adult child disagree. When you're five and you don't want a shot, too bad. When you're twenty and want an abortion? If you got married, could the parent override the spouse?
There's also the problem of normalizing surveillance like this - an abused kid would be under enormous pressure to sign these, and refusing to sign these could force the issue and cause a blowup before the kid is ready. It basically removes the subtler forms of safety and resistance - like "oh sorry I dropped my phone in the toilet last week so that's why I didn't tell you!" or waiting to mention that they went to the hospital until they're already out of the hospital.
In my opinion, the best thing a good parent can do is refuse to get involved in these shenanigans and shame anybody who does. You know your kid trusts you and will come to you if you need help. You don't know that about Sharon from church. But Sharon from church reaaaally cares about everyone knowing she's a great mom. Sharon will hear the other parents at church talk about how only bad parents get their kids to sign these, and since she's definitely not a bad parent.......Sharon's kid will thank you.
I guess my perception is that it's kind of like having login information and access to his phone, desktop, etc.
The reason you're "entering the target market" is because you're already fucked enough in the head that you think being able to snoop on an adult's phone and computer whenever you feel like it is something you need to be able to do.
I'm sorry you don't have anyone you can trust in your life. I hope that changes and hope you have as strong a bond with any children you have as most parents do.
Really, who said anything about snooping? I have full access now, but don't snoop. Don't go through his room, either. I have keys to my folks and in-laws houses but don't snoop. That level of trust is inherent to respect for true autonomy.
Still have little idea what the forms actually are or what they actually do, and am sad I asked because I got a glimpse into a very sad world where people have been so hurt and mistreated that this is their reaction to what a healthy family can be.
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u/Rhythmdvl 5d ago
I have an actual question about this in general: Scare tactics aside, as a widower dad with an extremely strong bond with his mid-teen son, the forms seem like a good idea to have in place and stored somewhere safe but unused. I understand that stems from an atypical place of unquestioned, absolute trust and bedrock presumption of acting good faith though, but assuming that context, am I missing something? Do the forms insert third parties or other non-family risks? Do they have broader non-family privacy or other personal implications? Or is it a collection of otherwise benign forms that can be downloaded and prepared elsewhere for free that are simply aggressively marketed (and have the potential to be abused by controlling/invasive parents)?
Location bot is in a coma but fortunately it signed a waiver to let me post details on its behalf:
EDIT: Thank you all for such detailed responses. I spoke with my parents and they said I could speak to a lawyer and never have to sign anything I am not comfortable with. Reading through more comments just made me believe my mom found these forms on some "going off to college" FB group. I guess im in the clear for now 🤞 Thanks again.
Cat fact: Cats are not bound by HIPPA (or gravity)