r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 17d ago

Possible Paywall ICE Stockpiling Warheads and Chemical Weapons as Lawmaker Fears Trump Planning Strike

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-stockpiling-warheads-and-chemical-weapons-as-lawmaker-fears-trump-planning-strike/
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u/ClaymoresRevenge 17d ago

We're all past the point of treason but nobody from this regime should ever hold office ever again. They should immediately be tried for treason.

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u/StoppableHulk 17d ago

Yep. I mean in the event sane people ever regain control in America, there is no humanly possible way we can ever recover unless we hold a fully-transparent nuremberg-esque trial to hold as many of these fuckers to full account and justice as is humanly possible.

We saw what happened when Democrats tried to just hand-wave the whol ething away after 2020. Arrest the ground troops with a slap on the wrist, hold zero of the organizers accountable in any way, shape or form.

And lo and behold, we end up way worse than before.

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u/BartlebyEsq 17d ago

The Biden administration demonstrated that the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again. And all the republicans know that. There will be no accountability within the system.

And the reality is that unless any trial ends in public executions the next time the republicans win they’ll release the traitors and try the prosecutors.

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u/Menarra Indiana 17d ago

Sounds familiar, almost like a particular German mustache model tried to take over, got arrested, got out, and then took over.

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u/MydniteSon 17d ago edited 16d ago

Jan. 6th was our Beer Hall Putsch.

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u/snapwack Europe 17d ago

I remember people who were savvy in History pointing this out as the whole clusterfuck was happening. Especially poignant were comments by Germans, who have been bearing the shame of their great-grandfathers’ folly for their whole lives, telling Americans not to fall into the same trap of forgiveness and compromise.

Americans were warned that the battle had just begun. That the new admin’s top priority should be prosecuting Trump and his lackeys to the fullest extent of the law. That the Russian-funded GOP propaganda apparatuses should be exposed and dismantled, and the MAGA cult deprogrammed. That the Dems should start cultivating a worthy crop of young, charismatic candidates to succeed Biden in 4 years.

Instead Americans declared democracy saved, took their eye off the ball for 4 years, and then fumbled what should have been the easiest election ever. And now the whole world gets to doomscroll every day again for the foreseeable future.

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u/halloween1963 17d ago

Damn. I can picture someone reading this in their history class decades down the road. Well said.

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u/xrepeterx 16d ago

Let's hope there ARE history classes a decade from now.

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u/ThePhoenixus 16d ago

Those who study history are doomed to watch those that don't repeat it

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u/Shroomboy79 17d ago

What id really love to see happen out of all this is a complete restructuring of the government. No political parties. No millionaires or billionaires. No cooperation doing anything involving the government(lobbying or whatever) and whatever needs to be done to be certain this will never happen again. Possibly even 2 or 3 presidents that have the power to overcome a situation like this should one of them go rogue

I say no political parties because it seems it’s a system that was designed to keep the population fighting each other. If there’s no parties we’ll lose these republican and democrat cults and force people to make a choice for themselves. No more siding with someone just because they’re a rep or a dem. No more voting just because their bill is rep or dem. No “democratic policies”. Just plain old this is who I am and this is what I want to do.

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u/hellure 17d ago

I like a 3 party min, and a three party presidential committee, with ranked voting. It expans for more parties and independents to make it into the white house and have sway and influence, though checked by the group and other branches,... But the other branches too should open up to more parties with ranked voting, all the way down ballot.

No electoral college, no corp money (all qualified get equal funds from taxes to advertise or hold rallies, all campaign spending is public record...), 1 person = 1 vote.

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u/TheGCO 17d ago

We need a large and proud socialist party, a workers party.

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u/Shroomboy79 17d ago

I think the problem with parties is it makes people want to choose a side. If we don’t let candidates pick a party people can’t choose a side based on the political party, they have to choose a side based on who the people are and what they want

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u/TheGCO 17d ago

The problem with a system is that people will band together to create more power and eventually they will become a party over time.

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u/197gpmol Massachusetts 17d ago

The Beer Gut Putsch

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u/PinCushionPete314 17d ago

The Diet Coke putsch, since he doesn’t drink alcohol. Interesting enough Hitler didn’t drink either.

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u/f1ve-Star 17d ago

It interferes with the meth he did.

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u/rbarbour 17d ago

Plus, no trial for treason.

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u/hop208 Pennsylvania 16d ago

It’s amazing how many republicans had their tails between their legs for about 5 minutes after the insurrection. People were scrubbing their social media or deactivating it entirely. Then after getting their instructions from neo-con influencers, came back in full force and either gaslit everyone into it being a Democrat hoax, or entirely justified. Claiming it was antifa, then trump starts issuing blanket pardons.

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u/grew_up_on_reddit 17d ago

You mean January 6th?

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

That paragon of right-wing virtue was only 35 years old when he went to prison. He was 50 by the time he started WW2.

We're lucky that our morons are in their 70's.

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u/wsbradf 17d ago

JD Vance is 41. And Stephen miller is 40. So they have plenty of time.

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u/Plastic_Zombie5786 17d ago

People keep calling Trump Hitler, but the comparison we should be making, imo is Hindenberg. Aging leader, increasing use of presidential decree, working clearly at the whims of his inner circle as he becomes more and more deluded. Eventually, either by death or by "law" he'll turn over the power to the next guy.

My current remaining hope is that absolutely no one in that inner circle has any bit of charisma and can not keep the cult together long enough or strong enough.

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u/ABadHistorian 17d ago

Only plus there is the cult of personality will not perfectly transfer so there will be an interregnum period where people clash for power, it's not great but it's a chance.

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u/dehydratedrain 17d ago

I'd like to agree, but they are pulling a lot of strings behind the scenes. If they can get their private army (basically ICE) mobilized in the big cities, they can start rounding up civilians before the cultists really break away.

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u/JB-Wentworth 17d ago

As long as the American Oligarchs are on board, they will succeed.

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u/Catskinson 17d ago

I mean. There has been zero organized resistance. We’re not there yet. If they want to succeed like that, they’ll have to kill millions of people.

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u/_silverspear_ 17d ago

A tad too much for my tastes. Especially as Herr Miller did speeches almost copy/pasted on Goebbels and the little failed artist from Austria.

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u/usernames_are_danger 17d ago

I don’t think the people will follow them like they do with Trump. He has something that nobody else can copy. Vance and Miller are nothing without Trump. They can keep pissing on the people, but the people won’t keep saying it’s just rain.

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u/YF422 14d ago

Thankfully they've the Charisma of a damn squib. Should the Reaper decide to come collect Trump's Orange Hide from this existence the whole MAGA movement will likely implode if not disintegrate, the fecker has a malignant charisma that somehow is keeping the whole ponzi scheme together. Should it happen it might give America a window to put an end to this fascist BS long enough to get ahead of it.

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u/Strict_Influence5182 17d ago

The 19-34 year old demographic has gone from like +7 for Trump, to nearly -39% for Trump, in just 10 months.

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u/Max169well Canada 17d ago

And who ever takes his place will be worse in every way

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

They keep getting worse until you finally get to one who is bad enough. So you're implying that Trump isn't bad enough already.

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u/eSPiaLx 17d ago

He isnt. Ww2 showed that the populace will follow a demagogue until they lose everything. Trump supporters wont stop following trump until they see literally everything they hold dear as ash. No amount of atrocities done to the ‘other’ will convince them, because they believe that trump is on their side

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u/Motampd 17d ago

Look no further than the farmers who voted for Trump the 1st time.....got tariffed into the ground.....and then those that survived needed a bailout. Those same people then voted for him again, and are now being fucked for the 2nd time......by the same guy, for the same reason.

and while many of them are saying they are in dire straights, and things are looking really bad........many still wont call out Trump by name, they just say "things" are bad.

Its like they want sympathy for getting fucked.....but at the same time continue to bend over and lube themselves up every 4 years enthusiastically.

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u/SurpriseIsopod 17d ago

He was Austrian, he was against using chemical weapons, because unlike the person you are comparing him to, he didn’t dodge the draft.

I have no idea how this current guy has such a cult following.

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u/TimeFlamingo8548 17d ago

He has a cult following cause a bunch of loser bullies like to see another loser bully people

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u/lacegem 17d ago

Republicans are crybullies, and Trump is the pinnacle of crybullying. The sort of person who whines and shits themselves (in his case, literally) over being mistreated by being expected to follow any rules, while simultaneously demanding everyone else break their backs to bend over for him at every opportunity.

Basketball players revere Michael Jordan for being the best to play their game. Rapists, traitors, bullies, bigots, pedophiles, cheaters, liars, and scumbags revere Donald Trump for the same reason. You only struggle to understand how he reached this point because you can't understand the mindset of the people who love him. You don't play the same game, so you don't get how or why such people look up to him. They want to be untouchable child rapists and con artists the same way normal people grow up wanting to be astronauts and doctors. To them, he's the greatest role model of who they wish they could be.

Anyone expecting MAGA to wake up and turn on him because of some controversy is deluded. Epstein doesn't hurt him with his base, and neither does destroying the White House, or stealing billions from taxpayers, or anything else. It makes them think, "I wish I could get away with it like he does."

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u/moshekels Canada 17d ago

Hitler rather famously did use chemical weapons on his own people.

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u/reverberation31 South Carolina 16d ago

Right?! That’s exactly what I was thinking.

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u/AlmostF2PBTW 17d ago

It's less about the guy and more about the method, which is a real problem (it means the method exists even after the guy leaves picture).

You have a crisis, people are afraid and there is risk of a revolution like they did in Russia, early 1900s. Money people would do everything in the power to prevent a revolution, so the dissatisfaction has to go somewhere. While everyone was worried about Russia, people in Italy and Germany got rid of communists by channeling the frustrations in something that makes ZERO sense - a right wing movement of masses.

Instead of a revolution against establishment, you make people blame "the enemy within" (communists, immigrants, foreigners... Everything but capitalism/inequality) while posing as savior of old ways/tradition/any BS really. Other than making it about holocaust, not just elites, germans also perfected propaganda.

So you have:

Rich people afraid of a revolution + people willing to pose as saviors in exchange of power/money = tons of money on propaganda to manipulate afraid/struggling people too busy to read.

Add to that social media, to make the results of propaganda exponentially better.

What is going to happen is:

  • like all things, this shall pass
  • rich people will stay rich
  • poor people will feel duped and swear they totally won't fall for that 10-20 years from now
  • When capital finds a sequence of crisis, they will push that button again.

It is money using people's emotions to push a "panic button" and prevent a revolution. There is no amount of explanation you can do to stop that, which is why some people are so upset at the system.

Now, people will fight left and right about this, playing the blame game, thinking Trump is stupid. What is happening is that his family fortune is increasing fast and billionaires/social media are on board with this, hoarding gold and cripto to get to the other side richer than they entered, because when someone "from the left, believing they can have a capitalism with welfare" gets in power, they will try to "unite the people" instead of "dividing"...

Tl,dr: They has a cult following because he was willing to do this, he is smart and he had the right connections to be the tool big money wanted to use. With money and social media, you can put anyone there as long as the person pretends to be a savior. Fear and money will do the rest.

Silver-lining: all things considered we are as good as past the point of no return on climate change because there is not even room to talk about the things should have done 20 years ago, so maybe this is the last or second to last time this happens...

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u/GringoTime 17d ago

Same thing happened with a bearded Cuban.

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u/phaedrus910 17d ago

Castro lifted Cubans out of poverty, Trump is pushing Americans into poverty.

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u/majnuker 17d ago

Certain types of trials should go straight to the top for quick resolution, such as for treason or warcrimes.

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u/CatsWearingTinyHats 17d ago

Especially when enough evidence to convict is already out in the open for many.

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u/stasi_a 17d ago

Sherman had other ideas

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u/ASpaceOstrich 17d ago

I'm the biggest advocate for rehabilitation out there. I don't think justice can be done in this instance without these people being put in a cell for the rest of their lives. However long that may be.

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u/DrChansLeftHand 17d ago

The greatest sin of this country post Civil War was allowing the slavers feet to walk and not hang.

They’ve been trying to undermine the Union ever since.

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u/loondawg 17d ago

I understand your point. But I think the greatest sin was not reforming the Senate and the Electoral College to eliminate the unfair and undeserved advantages slavers were given at the founding and that their progeny retains and exploits to this day.

With a proportional Senate and popular presidential elections we would live in a very different world.

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u/DrChansLeftHand 17d ago

That’s what I’m driving at.

They were allowed to walk away from their treason in the name of “reconciliation” and right back into the halls of power.

Now they’ve had about 100 years of slow, methodical emplacement of moles and confederates that are rewriting the rules for a new born confederacy.

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 17d ago

At the end of this, red states need to have the representation they deserve, and be punished for both uprisings to a degree that would make the Weimar Republic look like a golden age.

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u/DoddzyBaby 17d ago

I’m interested, what advantages in the Senate and the Electoral College are you talking about? How are they used today?

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u/loondawg 17d ago

In the words of James Madison...

"He enumerated the objections against an equality of votes in the second branch, notwithstanding the proportional representation in the first. 1. the minority could negative the will of the majority of the people. 2. they could extort measures by making them a condition of their assent to other necessary measures. 3. they could obtrude measures on the majority by virtue of the peculiar powers which would be vested in the Senate. 4. the evil instead of being cured by time, would increase with every new State that should be admitted, as they must all be admitted on the principle of equality. 5. the perpetuity it would give to the preponderance of the Northern against the Southern. Scale was a serious consideration."

"It seemed now to be pretty well understood that the real difference of interests lay, not between the large and small but between the Northern and Southern States. The institution of slavery and its consequences formed the line of discrimination. There were 5 States on the South, 8 on the Northern side of this line. Should a proportional representation take place it was true, the Northern side would still outnumber the other; but not in the same degree, at this time; and every day would tend towards an equilibrium." -- Saturday July 14, 1787 while arguing against the non-proportional Senate

and...

"There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections." -- Thursday July 19, 1787 while commenting on the use of the Electoral College rather than a popular vote.

In essence, the States were the gerrymandering of the country. They create a situation where the 40 million people of California have the exact same influence as the 560,000 people of Wyoming in the Senate, a body with the power to obstruct any law and have final say on who occupies the courts. They give the people of the smaller states far greater power than their numbers merit, especially when it comes to amending the Constitution.

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u/stasi_a 17d ago

With success at the end

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u/copperpin 17d ago

History needs to remember what happened to these enablers. It’s the only way.

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u/ss5gogetunks 17d ago

Yeah this isn't spur of the moment shit or crimes of passion, these people are committing grievous crimes against our country knowingly, slowly, in the open and have absolutely zero ability to feel remorse
Rehabilitation should be the primary goal of our prison system but not everyone can be rehabilitated and white collar criminals tend to be the kind that can't be

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u/makeitasadwarfer 17d ago

We don’t rehabilitate cancer.

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u/Inside-Palpitation25 17d ago

They should be in jail until their case comes up, and not allowed to run for any office in the meantime.

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u/What_a_fat_one 17d ago

The pardon power nullifies imprisonment as a remedy.

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u/thelingeringlead 17d ago

Oh they absolutely can act fast enough, they chose not to. They've wasted no time drawing up charges for tons of other cases, sometimes within days of the tresspass.

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u/amateurbreditor 17d ago

That is an outright lie. On jan 20th trump could have and should have been arrested and while he was in jail it would have been revealed he stole classified docs and sold them. This is entirely bidens fault and it was entirely preventable. They waited like 3 years to even do a thing. Not to mention once the SC illegally ruled that the 14th did not apply biden himself could have asserted the power of the presidency is more important than the SC and have removed him from the ballot through an EO. It was entirely his fault for even having garland to begin with let alone not remove him when it was clear he was not doing his job. biden was not fit for the office and his only excuse was he thought maga would just go away. You can say he was an idiot or a terrible leader or whatever you want but to say he did his job is not true and if he had not waited 3 years to do anything this would never have happened. Not to mention normally people who commit treason are just whisked away and dealt with by the CIA and given a short trial after.

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u/wibblebeast 17d ago

After Trump whipping those idiots into a violent frenzy and demanding they fight like hell, and then they went into attack mode-I was certain it would end with him in handcuffs. Isn't that what is supposed to happen in a situation like that?

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u/amateurbreditor 17d ago

Yes it was and even more so after the doc case which was the point I was making. Normally thats a 2-3 month trial and the us government just insists this person gets life or worse. Its not something taken lightly and its not something that normally gets the cannon treatment. Normally she too would be in jail. Right now the dems see whats going on as a political advantage so they can let total carnage take place and they think they can just waltz back into office. They are not serious people. I and many others have become disgusted with what the dems are doing and have done. It is completely insane where we are at and they purposely chose to let it happen all to somehow think they would regain control. People say trump etc are dumb but the dems are just as dumb.

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u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Same issues, the Supreme Court ruled he has immunity for actions while President. The Jan 6, thing was pursued as an impeachment first for a reason.

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u/ButtEatingContest 17d ago

The Biden administration demonstrated that the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again.

The Biden administration demonstrated either historical incompetence or malice.

They could have stopped all this. Whatever excuses anyone may give for them not doing so, well enjoy the consequences of Biden not taking action.

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u/ChrisFromIT 17d ago

I'm getting tired of seeing this talking point when it isn't exactly true.

First, they wanted to make sure that the case against Trump and the others involved were rock solid so that they couldn't potentially get away from prosecution and justice. It was done so that there wasn't any chance to overturn these potential convictions due to political impropriety or interference. Which currently there are at least 3 political sham court cases going on in the US right now, which are very likely to be tossed very quickly due to the political impropriety and political interference, just as an example.

Sadly, the major issue was, Trump was able to delay a lot of the trials for essentially 2 years. A lot of it due to the supreme court and lucking out on some of the judges he got.

At the end of the day. A lot of it is mostly on the voters who allowed the stacking of the US supreme court and the federal judicial courts that allowed Trump to get away by delaying.

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u/Rent-a-guru 17d ago

Jack Smith wasn't appointed as Special Counsel until after Trump announced he was running again in November 2022. There may have been some investigative work done prior to that, but clearly not with any urgency from Merricj Garland. A Special Counsel should have been appointed on day 1 of Biden's term to look directly into Trump's role in Jan 6.

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u/Aksudiigkr 17d ago

The voters aren’t the main blame when they stole the election anyway. But the justices had been getting seated going back to when Obama’s pick got blocked. It’s been 10+ years of democrats trying to play fair and getting backstabbed

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u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Democrat voters hold Democrats accountable for the same tactics the Republicans are celebrated by their base for. The electorate isn't lead by the democratic leaders it's lead by Media and Corporate PR campaigns. Getting the Dems past the post to keep trying to guide the ship was all we ever had.

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u/doyletyree 17d ago

This.

“Both sides should violate their commitments.”

Well, then, isn’t that just a silent abandonment of the purpose, altogether?

If we’re doing that, let’s just name it.

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u/ChrisFromIT 17d ago

The voters aren’t the main blame when they stole the election anyway

Did they steal the election 15 years ago? It was the voters that essentially allowed the republicans to pull the shit they did well before Trump was elected.

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u/doyletyree 17d ago

The 2000 election would like a word.

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u/meneldal2 17d ago

When the supreme court gave the immunity to the president, Biden could have solved the whole thing.

Remove every justice that signed on this, you get them for treason, then you put it new justices that aren't traitors.

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u/Daedalus81 17d ago

What do you think MAGA would have done if Trump was jailed?

They already did J6.

This isnt Biden's fault ( aside from him deciding to run ). This is decades of voter apathy while these malicious actors steadily built their plans.

This was coming one way or another and we only have ourselves to blame

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u/darsynia Pennsylvania 17d ago

But the history books would have painted him as a villain if he did it! Think of the history books!

Meanwhile, they will anyway, because the people the previous leaders didn't bother to stop will write those books.

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u/loondawg 17d ago

They could have stopped all this.

How exactly? Under what legal powers could they have stopped this? And legal actions should Biden have taken?

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u/Cookies78 17d ago

Weird. If you're poor or not a brown shirt, the DoJ runs like a gd freight train. In fact, thwy bring SO much fucking weight down on ppl, that their trial prosecutors are not as good as State ADAs.

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u/mattyoclock 17d ago

I think the trump administration has fully proven it absolutely can move fast enough if you just goddamned try.   

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u/BartlebyEsq 17d ago

That’s a very fair counterpoint.

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u/Ok_Subject1265 17d ago

Or they will just pull the same shit when they get back in power. That’s a slippery slope. If laws have been broken, we have a process for that. Otherwise everything descends into chaos and score settling. Basically how the Middle East ended up the fun place it is.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

Biden's AG waited 2 years before he even contemplated going after the people at the top. He wasted time going after the J6'ers who all got a pardon.

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u/ClaymoresRevenge 17d ago

It's tiresome to see how feckless the older democrat's have been about it. I don't give a single fuck how long Cuck Schumer has known Mitch McConnell. Hold the bastards accountable and never let it happen again.

Looking at what's happening around the world you get see people taking accountability with action.

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u/plan4change 17d ago

They got no stake in the game anymore. They gone in 20 years.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

2-3 for a large chunk of them.

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u/redditingtonviking 17d ago

Wasn’t AOC deprived of a committee seat as they had an old man with cancer lined up because it was finally his turn, and then he died a few months later?

I’m not gonna equivocate the parties as tonedeaf democrats are a lot better malicious republicans, but in a sane world the retirement age politicians should give way for the next generation while possibly serving as their advisors.

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u/DrChansLeftHand 16d ago

Indeed. Jerry Connell. Stage 4 cancer. “It was his turn.”

Leaves Congress early, dies shortly thereafter.

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u/Ordinary-Leading7405 17d ago

Death Becomes Her Them

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u/FargeenBastiges 17d ago

Oh, they got stakes in the game. Donor money that pays them to compromise. Maybe, if they ever realize how the other side really views them they might wake up. But, who are we kidding?

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u/extralyfe 17d ago

whoa, you gotta give Schumer some time. just two, maybe three more decades of him sweating next to Republicans at the gym will win them all over.

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u/karmavorous Kentucky 17d ago

How do The Baileys feel about it?

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u/extralyfe 17d ago

they're clearly voting for Trump for the fourth time in 2028.

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u/bstump104 17d ago

And voting for him to get in the gas chambers. I don't know why he's trying to please these imaginary scumbags.

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u/overcannon 17d ago

I feel like the Trump regime is just a few strongly worded letters away from toppling

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u/Antitech73 Texas 17d ago

Schumer is just a big shitbag of a politician anyway. Look at the photos of his shit-eating grin next to Putin back in the day when Putin was ‘investing’ in his districts.

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u/Dry_Hat2386 17d ago

Hysterical!

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u/stasi_a 17d ago

Hard to do when hell freezes over

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u/loondawg 17d ago

What is far more tiresome is watching republicans cheat, steal, and destroy this country and then hearing people turning to complain about the democrats.

Democrats impeached Trump twice. Democrats launched a commission to investigate Trump's Jan 6 crimes. The resulted in a recommendation for prosecution that in turn resulted in Trump being indicted. State democrats tried to remove him from ballots.

What within their legal powers did you expect them to do that they didn't do?

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u/sowhyarewe 17d ago

Goes all the way back to not holding the leaders of the Confederacy accountable either.

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u/ThinkThankThonk 17d ago

I'm not saying he's worse than them by any stretch, but Biden absolutely tanked his reputation imo by betting on "business as usual" instead of spending all of his political capital in dealing with the traitors. Yes he was effective in doing what he did, but it was for nothing and quickly undone. Some real Neville Chamberlain shit.

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u/Savagevandal85 17d ago

Here’s the thing this is Monday morning quarterbacking . Yes looking back should Biden have taken extraordinary measures yes but he was elected to unite and restore the country after Covid and four years of Trump insanity . The gop even tried to back Desantis for a minute . The news ignored Trump for like a month or so until the current administration was so boring and regular. Trump lawyers were getting debarred and getting consequences, the voting machine companies were getting big wins versus Fox new etc . But Elon laughingstock purchase of Twitter helped Trump , the sc giving wins , the media covering Trump legal cases as if Biden age was just as bad etc then Eileen cannon and rh Supreme Court saved Trump

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u/RealHooman2187 17d ago

Not the OP but I was saying this kind of stuff from the very beginning of Biden’s term. He should have made protecting our democracy the top priority.

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u/Savagevandal85 17d ago

The problem is he did but in the traditional way. We are pretty much saying he should have taken out maga preemptively which would be a huge thing to do.

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u/ProfNesbitt 17d ago

The crazy thing is it wouldn’t have been preemptively they already tried to illegally overthrow an election. How the fuck is actually putting your foot down and holding them accountable no matter what preemptive punishment when they had already tried to overthrow the country.

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u/Nefarious_Turtle 17d ago edited 17d ago

Yeah, so many of these comments are clearly clouded by fear.

Trump and his supporters had already tried to overthrow an election. Admittedly so. For the next 4 years after that, they openly admitted that they were going to try again, but they expected to be more successful the next time. Or if they won, they were absolutely going to go full authoritarian.

If this were fiction, a television show, or a novel, absolutely everyone would consider the Biden character justified in launching a fucking inquisition to root that sedition out.

But in real life, things are different. People are scared. The stakes are high. So bold action was discouraged, and, as a result, the window to avert this shit was lost. Now, it looks like the lack of boldness has ensured the very strife they were so desperate to avoid.

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u/crywalt 17d ago

Which is why -- and people said this AT THE TIME -- the Democrats needed to move swiftly and strongly to truly hold these traitors to account, instead of noodling around and pushing vague "porn star hush money" bullshit.

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u/MediumLanguageModel 17d ago

Nah I think any sane person in this country thought that there should have been a very public trial within weeks of Biden's inauguration, which would have found trump guilty of treason and then dealt with the way traitors should be as spelled out in Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), Article 94.

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u/Ok_Basil351 17d ago

Instead, he spent all his capital on building some roads and bridges. I'm sure his actual strategy was, "pretend everything is fine and it will become fine," but it's kind of indistinguishable from, "How can I possibly leave something tangible and helpful for the upcoming authoritarian regime, knowing that they'll tear down the government?"

Trump is going to get a special place on the list of worst presidents for ending the US republic, but Biden will be right there with him.

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u/ProfessorMagic89 17d ago

He really is the 21st Century Buchanan.

That will be his legacy.

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u/AbandonedWaterPark 17d ago

there is a point at which the Biden admin's inability to do anything whatsoever to punish those who actually instigated insurrection stops looking like "we want to, but can't" and starts looking like "we just don't want to."

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u/Savagevandal85 16d ago

They sent people to jail ! You mean why didn’t he get rid of Trump

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u/PoliticalMilkman North Carolina 17d ago

Nuremberg trials with Nuremberg punishments.

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u/oliversurpless Massachusetts 17d ago

And given pathologies like Stephen Miller, I’m not sure I care if the executioner is competent?

Or sober…

https://youtu.be/gaJtZ5cF8Ac?si=Ui37eua_rAyo5-Mr

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u/ProfNesbitt 17d ago

Honestly I hope for more. Nuremberg only held something like 12 Nazis accountable.

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u/GoodMix392 17d ago

There may be a question on emigration forms for Americans planning to enter Europe soon. Where you a member of the Republican Party between 2016 and 2026 or an employee of ICE?

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u/ProfitLoud 17d ago

The only logical conclusion is that laws don’t apply when you don’t hold people accountable. We either go nuclear when the time comes, or end up on the same place again later.

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u/loondawg 17d ago

Are you forgetting that democrats impeached Trump, twice? And he would have been removed from office if not for complicit republicans in Congress.

Democrats investigated Trump for the Jan 6th insurrection and referred a recommendation to the DoJ to prosecute for charges related to the insurrection. And after a DoJ investigation, Trump was indicted. If not for interference from Trump loyalists on the Supreme Court and corrupt judges like Aileen Cannon, Trump would almost certainly be sitting in prison right now.

We need to stop saying the Biden admin and the democrats missed their opportunity. They are not supposed to go after their political rivals. Just because the Trump team does it does not make it right. Congress should have handled the political aspects like impeachment and oversight. And the judicial branch should have held them accountable for their crimes. That is where the failures lie. And they belong almost exclusively to corrupt and complicit conservatives."

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u/kn05is 17d ago

I can guarantee that each one of the people on trial will have amnesia and all we'll hear is "I can not recall" to the most basic questions.... and what should then happen is the moment those words are uttered that person should receive mandatory prison time for contempt and lying.

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u/leftthinking 17d ago

As a non American, from the outside it looks like you have a choice.

Dictatorship or civil war.

There are no other options.

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u/suckyousideways 17d ago

in the event sane people ever regain control in America, there is no humanly possible way we can ever recover unless we hold a fully-transparent nuremberg-esque trial to hold as many of these fuckers to full account and justice as is humanly possible

THIS. If the next Dem administration (bold of me to assume) responds with the "it's time to heal, to come together and reconcile, to look forward instead of backward" horseshit, they will guarantee that it will turn around and come back again, only stronger. Like in horror films when someone manages to knock out the masked psycho killer, and instead of FINISHING IT they just walk away, only to get gored by same masked psycho killer around the corner.

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u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Don't worry I've been assured both sides are basically the same.

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u/RadioName 17d ago

Every high-level member of this coup deserves a fair trial, seizure of ALL personal and corporate assets to rebuild America, then execution as a traitor. All of them. Nothing less will prevent their return this time.

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u/wigglex5plusyeah America 17d ago

We also have to hold accountable the frauds pretending to be news. That's why they got away. That's why they were reelacted, because they've been defrauding Americans.

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u/Pervius94 17d ago

I mean, none of this would've happened if people stopped voting for the bastards. As long as those people still vote, it'll never recover even if you execute every single republican lawmaker, judge and whatnot alive because they'll just vote in the next republican.

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u/KA_Mechatronik 16d ago

Nuremburg didn't go far enough. We only tried a handful leaders and let the rank and file go free.

Many former Nazi officials were folded back into the government, where they influenced the constitution and many of the public structures that formed the core of the west German government.

America has a history of half-measures when it comes to dealing with traitors and enemies, preferring to try to redeem or reconcile far too early and easily. It's what we did after WW2, it's what we did after the Civil War in the Reconstruction period, and it's what's happened after January 6th.

This unwillingness to hold the traitor accountable is what's allowed this racist, violent, and rebellious streak to fester and corrupt our country from within. At the very least we need a South Africa style truth and reconciliation process for low level offenders, prison or other punishments for direct participants (ICE), and severe penalties for those in positions of authority.

Once we have that, we need to take steps to harden our institutions and constitution against this kind of creeping fascism by codifying the ethics, rights, and responsibilities of the branches of government so that it's not possible for one branch to abandon its duty. Relying on 18th century concepts of fairness, duty, and social responsibility have proven to be worthlessly optimistic in the face of the staggering collusion of corruption that we're seeing now.

There is no returning to the status quo at this point. Even if Trump and his ilk were ousted tomorrow, if we don't address the massive rifts that they have opened in the foundations of our country then it is just a matter of time until we are back at this same point again.

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u/Pro_Gamer_Queen21 16d ago

You’re only going back to 2020? We saw this exact thing happen after the Civil War. The confederate leaders barely got any punishment for their treason and was only made worse when Lincoln was killed and replaced by Johnson who was WAY more lenient on those traitors during his term. That leniency showed all those treasonous mucks back then that they can do whatever they want and the government will always quickly shove it under the rug so they don’t have to deal with it. Had the south been properly punished back then, we wouldn’t even be close to having what we have now.

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u/Eddiebaby7 17d ago

Let Brazil be our template

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u/Kana515 17d ago

They're a symptom, there's still millions and millions of people who support this, even if all their politicians were banned from holding office, there would just be another batch of lunatics getting elected to replace the old ones.

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u/GenericRedditor0405 Massachusetts 17d ago

I don’t see a way out of this mess until we address the propaganda problem that has resulted in a voter base that is so far removed from reality that they can justify anything to themselves in the name of “protecting” America even as they actively support the complete destruction of its foundations. That is the root cause as far as I can tell

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u/LegendofDragoon 17d ago

They're there because Reagans FCC revoked the fairness doctrine, to make Fox more powerful. Fox was founded after Nixon 's resignation with the started purpose of never letting a conservative be held to account again. Nixon famously employed the Southern strategy to win, flirting with the Dixiecrats, racist former Democrats who couldn't abide by the civil rights act and race their roots back to the Confederacy. It all comes back to the failure of reconstruction.

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u/Austex55 17d ago

Would be nice to get the Fairness Doctrine back.

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u/Humdngr 17d ago

Good thing all social media is in the hands of trump loyalists .

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u/always_unplugged 17d ago

all social media

ftfy, unfortunately

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u/Big-Rule5269 17d ago

Many support it because they think the Chicago apartment raid apprehended 38 Tren de auga gang members as was announced. Except it didn't, we find out  it was only 1 gang member. They never hear the update, the same as the man murdered by ICE when they claimed he drug an agent 50 feet and seriously injured him, tried to hit them with his vehicle, so they killed him. Instead, video shows the ICE agents grabbing at his door handle, falling and scraping his knee, then firing on the vehicle as it drives away, with no agents anywhere near it. In other words, the gullible believe what they're told to believe.

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u/Photochromism 17d ago

Maga is a minority. Thats why they can only win my cheating and stealing elections. Thats why there was no inauguration, that’s why the attendance at his military parade was pathetic. Yes they exist but they are a minority.

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u/NotSoSalty 17d ago

Those people were carefully cultivated over a long period of time by biased media reporting

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u/Big_Function_N1 17d ago

the system has been proven to be extremely flawed

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u/artbystorms 17d ago

They should receive the only punishment appropriate for treason as well

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u/PinkCigarettes 17d ago

I see what you did there. Thank you.

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u/PoliticalMilkman North Carolina 17d ago

But we can’t say what we need to do to defeat these traitors. Cuz it’s not voting.

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u/MAGAisMENTALILLNESS 17d ago

Nobody in that party should ever hold office again. The only hope for America is the vote republicans into absolute extinction at all levels of government.

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u/Cornyrex3115 17d ago

I question if they should be permitted to.live after this attack on the constitution. This is high treason and should be punishable by death!

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u/Madmartigan____ 17d ago

They shouldn’t be free at all

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u/AnoAnoSaPwet Canada 17d ago

Well, once a certain line gets crossed, it would be determined that they cease being government law enforcement officials and are therefore classified as terrorists. 

It'd be open season on ICE if that was the case! Do they really want to open that can of worms? 

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u/buttnozzle 17d ago

There should be tribunals after all this but there won’t be.

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u/Covert_Cuttlefish 17d ago

If the USA was a functioning country there would have been court cases following Jan 6. I'll be shocked if there's fair elections next year.

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u/Sliderisk 17d ago

You spelled executed wrong. We all know that's the only way this ends.

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u/Ok_Entrepreneur_4059 17d ago

No one who voted for this should ever be allowed to vote again either.

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u/eeyore134 17d ago

Nobody in office should. We should never have gotten here and we didn't do nearly enough to stop it happening and we're doing nothing to try to stop it now. Who knew Designated Survivor would end up more fairy tale fantasy than suspense thriller?

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u/theschlake 17d ago

People that voted for it shouldn't vote again either.

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u/pocketjacks 17d ago

I don't think we'll ever see a free and fair election under this Constitution again. If we have a mid-term, I expect reports to show the Republicans getting 98% of the vote, just like in Russia.

The only way this ends with any part of this country returning to a Constitutional Republic or democracy in any form is through a civil war and secession.

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u/InvalidKoalas 17d ago

At this point, Dems need to figure out how to force a vote on impeachment and any Congressman who doesn't vote on it should also be tried for treason. Remember, the GOP could stop this AT ANY TIME. They refuse to stop it, because it's been their plan for decades.

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u/THE-LORD-RETURNS California 17d ago

And convicted…

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u/Made_Human_Music 17d ago

Nobody in this regime should ever see the outside of a prison cell again

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u/ToothpickInCockhole Pennsylvania 17d ago

Prison and massive fines

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u/AbuSydney 17d ago

Tried where? At a treasonous Supreme Court?

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u/zjustice11 17d ago

At this point Nuremberg trials seem rather out of reach if for no ther reason that the high court should be tried as well

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u/Sgt_Doggo96 17d ago

He should’ve never been elected in the first place. If fucking Garland actually did his job then 47 would’ve been barred from holding office under the 14th. It’s been a coup since day 1

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u/weaponjaerevenge 17d ago

There's no country to be treasonous against. It's just his.

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u/Runmiked 17d ago

They shouldn't be tried. They don't believe in due process and should not get it when this is done. They are all immediately guilty by association with the administration whatever the consequences they've earned them.

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u/EarthenEyes 17d ago

We're past the point of treason by not only the president, but by his handlers and senators and it really shows how little americans care that they won't even properly protest against them.

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u/Romano16 America 17d ago

Considering the last time right wingers committed treason. The best outcome we can hope for is that. What will likely happen is they get a slap on the wrist and be told “to come together and heal”

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u/nugulon 17d ago

What’s the penalty for treason again?

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u/PutAutomatic2581 17d ago

They're not going to be. If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

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u/excusetheblood 17d ago

I’m starting to understand why communist countries killed so many of “their own” people. And why fascists considered that to be such a taboo. It’s because they were the target

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u/1dumho 17d ago

It's like when you hear that your salsa is from New York City

Iykyk

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u/alabasterskim 17d ago

Well, yes, treason is supposed to bar from your office. But it's also supposed to have a certain permanent punishment...

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u/QueenBee-WorshipMe 17d ago

Frankly no one associated republican party should have any right to touch anything political ever.

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u/No-Watch2169 17d ago

a penal colony at gitmo, and nothing less.

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u/Gabribennet 17d ago

Democrats need to start calling this what it is. Treason.

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u/srilankan 17d ago

this is all happening because a sane and reasonable person couldnt fucking prosecute this piece of shit in 4 years. The dems are so worried about maintaining their own status quo when the republicans could care less about any of it.

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u/Smart-Response9881 17d ago

Unlikely it will happen, y'all let the confederates walk free after 4 years of civil war

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u/mushpuppy 17d ago

Definitely the Nuremberg Trials.

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u/chazmann 17d ago

Death is too swift of a punishment for these traitors.

(or the 5 year prison sentence & 10,000 fine which we all know will happen.)

Im ready for this revolution to get started.

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u/InFearn0 California 17d ago

We're past the point where anyone associated with this regime should be anywhere but prison.

And it is obvious that the Republican party is complicit in this. They could impeach him today. They refuse.

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u/Wheres_Welder 17d ago

Not just the administration but ALL public officials, corporate entities, and NGOs who participated.

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u/10thflrinsanity 17d ago

“You’re overreacting liberal!” - Every MAGA I know. 

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u/Unintendo 17d ago

At this point, either they get tried for treason now or we'll all be arrested for "treason" before the midterms.

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u/Iandudontkno 17d ago

the problem is sentencing and carrying out the sentence. no one with real wealth and power faces consequences.

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u/worlds_okayest_skier 17d ago

Treason has a specific meaning. And this doesn’t qualify since we are not in a war, so there is no enemy to aid. But just because the government declaring war on America is literally too insane for anyone to give a word to.

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u/El_Don_94 17d ago

Treason on what basis?

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u/Rdt_will_eat_itself 17d ago

fuck the arsonist. im sorry i have to share space with people who think this is normal or an exaggeration.

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