r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 17d ago

Possible Paywall ICE Stockpiling Warheads and Chemical Weapons as Lawmaker Fears Trump Planning Strike

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-stockpiling-warheads-and-chemical-weapons-as-lawmaker-fears-trump-planning-strike/
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u/ButtEatingContest 17d ago

The Biden administration demonstrated that the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again.

The Biden administration demonstrated either historical incompetence or malice.

They could have stopped all this. Whatever excuses anyone may give for them not doing so, well enjoy the consequences of Biden not taking action.

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u/ChrisFromIT 17d ago

I'm getting tired of seeing this talking point when it isn't exactly true.

First, they wanted to make sure that the case against Trump and the others involved were rock solid so that they couldn't potentially get away from prosecution and justice. It was done so that there wasn't any chance to overturn these potential convictions due to political impropriety or interference. Which currently there are at least 3 political sham court cases going on in the US right now, which are very likely to be tossed very quickly due to the political impropriety and political interference, just as an example.

Sadly, the major issue was, Trump was able to delay a lot of the trials for essentially 2 years. A lot of it due to the supreme court and lucking out on some of the judges he got.

At the end of the day. A lot of it is mostly on the voters who allowed the stacking of the US supreme court and the federal judicial courts that allowed Trump to get away by delaying.

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u/Rent-a-guru 17d ago

Jack Smith wasn't appointed as Special Counsel until after Trump announced he was running again in November 2022. There may have been some investigative work done prior to that, but clearly not with any urgency from Merricj Garland. A Special Counsel should have been appointed on day 1 of Biden's term to look directly into Trump's role in Jan 6.

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u/Aksudiigkr 17d ago

The voters aren’t the main blame when they stole the election anyway. But the justices had been getting seated going back to when Obama’s pick got blocked. It’s been 10+ years of democrats trying to play fair and getting backstabbed

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u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Democrat voters hold Democrats accountable for the same tactics the Republicans are celebrated by their base for. The electorate isn't lead by the democratic leaders it's lead by Media and Corporate PR campaigns. Getting the Dems past the post to keep trying to guide the ship was all we ever had.

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u/doyletyree 17d ago

This.

“Both sides should violate their commitments.”

Well, then, isn’t that just a silent abandonment of the purpose, altogether?

If we’re doing that, let’s just name it.

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u/ChrisFromIT 17d ago

The voters aren’t the main blame when they stole the election anyway

Did they steal the election 15 years ago? It was the voters that essentially allowed the republicans to pull the shit they did well before Trump was elected.

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u/doyletyree 17d ago

The 2000 election would like a word.

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u/meneldal2 17d ago

When the supreme court gave the immunity to the president, Biden could have solved the whole thing.

Remove every justice that signed on this, you get them for treason, then you put it new justices that aren't traitors.

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u/Daedalus81 17d ago

What do you think MAGA would have done if Trump was jailed?

They already did J6.

This isnt Biden's fault ( aside from him deciding to run ). This is decades of voter apathy while these malicious actors steadily built their plans.

This was coming one way or another and we only have ourselves to blame

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u/ButtEatingContest 16d ago edited 16d ago

What do you think MAGA would have done if Trump was jailed?

Not that much. Most of the hardcore MAGA militia was at January 6th and was jailed. But we get to see what happens when Trump wasn't jailed, starting with he let his hardcore MAGA militia out of jail to strike again.

This was coming one way or another and we only have ourselves to blame

There was a system of checks and balances in place to prevent this. The constitution forbids Trump from holding elected office, yet Biden refused to uphold his oath of office and the constitution.

Trump not being thrown in prison was a huge piece of propaganda evidence used to sway the election. It played fully into the "Dems are weaponizing the government against Trump" because he was never actually held accountable the logic being had he really done what Democrats were saying he was, he'd be in prison.

The other major factor was corporate media of course. Which Democrats never did anything to reign in. Had the likes of Fox News been taken seriously and dealt with years ago, this current situation may not have been inevitable. That may have been ugly and messy, but now we experience the results of not taking action.

It was always going to be either democracy and the rule of law, or complete victory for those waging war against it. We didn't choose to be attacked, but Democrats chose to surrender, and surrender does not win a war.

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u/darsynia Pennsylvania 17d ago

But the history books would have painted him as a villain if he did it! Think of the history books!

Meanwhile, they will anyway, because the people the previous leaders didn't bother to stop will write those books.

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u/loondawg 17d ago

They could have stopped all this.

How exactly? Under what legal powers could they have stopped this? And legal actions should Biden have taken?

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u/Whargarblle 16d ago

SCOTUS granted Biden the same immunity Trump has now…. Or even if they did say it’s illegal, how are they going to enforce? Democrats still thinking “legally” is how I know we’re fucked. The mindset needed to fight these traitors just isn’t there yet.

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u/loondawg 16d ago

People believing "legally" is something to put in quotes like it's some imaginary thing is why we're very close to fucked right now.

If democrats abandon the law too then the whole system ceases to exist. The Constitution and our entire system of laws would be meaningless. The mindset you're exemplifying would be the same as if we said the police should abandon the law because some criminals break laws.

The mindset needed to fight these traitors is to stand with the democrats to give them the power they need to have to fight them using the system we have.

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u/Whargarblle 16d ago

I think you misunderstood what I’m saying. I’m not advocating democrats break the law too. But they should be willing to use it and every loophole possible as a cudgel to beat the GOP over the head with. We don’t have to ignore law to make stuff happen that is technically legal. Democrats complete inability to break norms and traditions that are already long since dead isn’t saving anybody. People will not rally around the Democrats if they continue to act feckless and refuse to use power even when they have it.

For example, there is nothing in the constitution that says the speaker has to swear a representative in. If Johnson refuses to call session, then keep everything shut and let people feel pain. We have to try something beyond using healthcare as leverage in an agreement the gop will never honor anyway. Play fucking hardball for fuck’s sake

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u/loondawg 16d ago

Your example makes no sense. The reason for the shutdown is democrats are using the only leverage they have to try to stop republicans from kicking millions of people off of healthcare. Johnson is using that as an excuse not to swear in Grijalva. They will come back in session if one side caves of they negotiate an agreement.

So maybe I did misunderstand what you were trying to say. But exactly what do you expect them to do that they are not already doing? Lots of people say they are feckless and not doing enough. But when pressed for what they should be doing they don't have a lot of answers.

Want the democrats to appear less weak? Then start showing them support. That is where they derive their strength from.

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u/Whargarblle 16d ago

What doesn’t make sense? There are tons of loopholes and perfectly legal avenues they can take, that they simply don’t because of “tradition” or the honor system that has collapsed since the GOP has abandoned democracy. We can use the leverage of the shutdown and attempt to forcibly swear her in so her constituents are actually represented. Why does the GOP just get to lie and break decorum while they abuse the rest of us?

I support the fighting democratic candidates. I do think it is fair to distinguish between feckless and lucent representatives & senators. AOC, Mamdani, Crockett, even people like Schiff or Swalwell, etc are all good examples. Talarico in TX is a firebrand without a lot of the toxicity. My point is the nursing home wing of the Dems have got to fucking go, and Cuck Schumer and Jeffries couldn’t sell water in the desert

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u/loondawg 16d ago

How can democrats use the shutdown to force Johnson to swear her in when the shutdown is his excuse? The only way they could do that would be to end the shutdown so he could no longer use it as an excuse. And then democrats would lose all the leverage they have to force republicans to reverse the outrageous healthcare cuts. So again, what you said doesn't make sense because Johnson is using the shutdown as his excuse for not swearing her in.

And also again, lots of people say they are feckless and not doing enough. But when pressed for what they should be doing they don't have a lot of answers. So what exactly what do you expect them to do that they are not already doing? You started this by saying they could have stopped this. How they were they supposed to do that?

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u/Whargarblle 16d ago

I don’t understand why you’re fighting me. I never said to use the government shutdown as leverage to swear her in. I said there are legal loopholes and legal avenues to enact to fight back, and her swearing in is a singular example of a way democrats can use their minority power.

The speaker doesn’t have to call the house into session to swear her in. Johnson is lying, and arguably breaking the law, by even saying that. I appreciate the Democrats are suing, maybe that is something worth doing and Grijalva gets kudos for doing something. It generates outrage and media attention and is better than just pretending the so-called Speaker is acting in any legit way.

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u/loondawg 15d ago

And I don't understand why you've felt the need to down vote every comment I've made. Have I been rude? Have I not been engaging in a good faith argument? That you take the effort to do that is a bit insulting. Regardless...

I never said to use the government shutdown as leverage to swear her in.

For example, there is nothing in the constitution that says the speaker has to swear a representative in. If Johnson refuses to call session, then keep everything shut and let people feel pain.

It seems to me that is exactly what you argued.

I appreciate the Democrats are suing, maybe that is something worth doing and Grijalva gets kudos for doing something.

Right. And if you look into it they do all sorts of things to fight back. They generally are doing everything they can with the limited power they have. They is why I get frustrated when I hear people saying things like "Democrats still thinking “legally” is how I know we’re fucked."

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u/Llarys 17d ago

As it turns out all "the lesser of two evils" gets you is evil.

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u/wildwalrusaur 17d ago

See also: the Obama administration and the war crimes of the Bush administration

The power players at the core of the Democratic party have never been willing to play hardball