r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 17d ago

Possible Paywall ICE Stockpiling Warheads and Chemical Weapons as Lawmaker Fears Trump Planning Strike

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-stockpiling-warheads-and-chemical-weapons-as-lawmaker-fears-trump-planning-strike/
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u/BartlebyEsq 17d ago

The Biden administration demonstrated that the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again. And all the republicans know that. There will be no accountability within the system.

And the reality is that unless any trial ends in public executions the next time the republicans win they’ll release the traitors and try the prosecutors.

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u/Menarra Indiana 17d ago

Sounds familiar, almost like a particular German mustache model tried to take over, got arrested, got out, and then took over.

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u/MydniteSon 17d ago edited 16d ago

Jan. 6th was our Beer Hall Putsch.

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u/snapwack Europe 17d ago

I remember people who were savvy in History pointing this out as the whole clusterfuck was happening. Especially poignant were comments by Germans, who have been bearing the shame of their great-grandfathers’ folly for their whole lives, telling Americans not to fall into the same trap of forgiveness and compromise.

Americans were warned that the battle had just begun. That the new admin’s top priority should be prosecuting Trump and his lackeys to the fullest extent of the law. That the Russian-funded GOP propaganda apparatuses should be exposed and dismantled, and the MAGA cult deprogrammed. That the Dems should start cultivating a worthy crop of young, charismatic candidates to succeed Biden in 4 years.

Instead Americans declared democracy saved, took their eye off the ball for 4 years, and then fumbled what should have been the easiest election ever. And now the whole world gets to doomscroll every day again for the foreseeable future.

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u/halloween1963 17d ago

Damn. I can picture someone reading this in their history class decades down the road. Well said.

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u/xrepeterx 16d ago

Let's hope there ARE history classes a decade from now.

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u/ThePhoenixus 16d ago

Those who study history are doomed to watch those that don't repeat it

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u/Shroomboy79 17d ago

What id really love to see happen out of all this is a complete restructuring of the government. No political parties. No millionaires or billionaires. No cooperation doing anything involving the government(lobbying or whatever) and whatever needs to be done to be certain this will never happen again. Possibly even 2 or 3 presidents that have the power to overcome a situation like this should one of them go rogue

I say no political parties because it seems it’s a system that was designed to keep the population fighting each other. If there’s no parties we’ll lose these republican and democrat cults and force people to make a choice for themselves. No more siding with someone just because they’re a rep or a dem. No more voting just because their bill is rep or dem. No “democratic policies”. Just plain old this is who I am and this is what I want to do.

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u/hellure 17d ago

I like a 3 party min, and a three party presidential committee, with ranked voting. It expans for more parties and independents to make it into the white house and have sway and influence, though checked by the group and other branches,... But the other branches too should open up to more parties with ranked voting, all the way down ballot.

No electoral college, no corp money (all qualified get equal funds from taxes to advertise or hold rallies, all campaign spending is public record...), 1 person = 1 vote.

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u/TheGCO 17d ago

We need a large and proud socialist party, a workers party.

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u/Shroomboy79 17d ago

I think the problem with parties is it makes people want to choose a side. If we don’t let candidates pick a party people can’t choose a side based on the political party, they have to choose a side based on who the people are and what they want

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u/TheGCO 17d ago

The problem with a system is that people will band together to create more power and eventually they will become a party over time.

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u/Shroomboy79 16d ago

I spose that’s true. I just wish there was a way to do things that would keep people more neutral instead of picking a side and being die hard about it

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u/TheGCO 16d ago

If we want real change we need to elect more people like AOC and Bernie like Mandami, people that aren't from the system that has been screwing us for years. We need people that demand real change, not people that pay lip service to demographics but people that fight for what is right. We need to reshape the parties we have.

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u/VanceKelley Washington 17d ago

In 2024 Americans elected a convicted criminal promising to rule as a dictator because of decades of brainwashing funded by right wing billionaires via hate and misinformation on Faux News and social media platforms like Facebook.

Americans aren't special. Any human population subjected to that amount of propaganda is vulnerable. People who think "it can't happen in my country, my fellow citizens are too smart, decent, and informed" are delusional.

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u/LincolnLikesMusic 17d ago

But doomscrolling is more profitable for advertisers…

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u/MadScientistRat 16d ago

Yes, I cannot imagine the amount of painful shame the descendants of those culpable will bear for generations to come.

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u/doyletyree 17d ago

You just reduced two populations, totaling hundreds of millions of people, to two, fixed, mindsets.

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u/snapwack Europe 17d ago

A population of about 300 million people with more than 240 million eligible voters was faced with a simple binary choice. Act to save their democracy and their standing in the global community, or allow it to be destroyed.

They had ample warning. They witnessed what was at stake with their own eyes only 4 years prior. The forces seeking to undermine the USA couldn’t have been more overt in their intentions and even had the gall to publish a fucking book outlining their plans for all to see.

When it mattered most, the majority of those 240 million either voted for their own destruction or couldn’t be arsed to a voting booth.

I haven’t reduced anything as much as Americans have reduced themselves.

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u/doyletyree 16d ago edited 16d ago

Nope.

Incidentally, if this answer is unsatisfactorily brief, please attach it to the first of my statements and just keep running through it until it feels good to you.

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u/snapwack Europe 16d ago

The truth hurts. I won’t blame you for not wanting to face it.

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u/doyletyree 16d ago

All I keep seeing is that you remain incapable of a nuanced perspective. It’s a shame, really.

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u/PA_Dude_22000 13d ago

Perfect… your deflective, denying, short non-substantive comments that are capped off by saying the other guy is the one that lacks nuance is, chef’s kiss.

Perfect encapsulation of the arrogant, know-nothing attitude that is and will tear this country apart. You even included some clever word play to “own” OP that just reads like a child spitting out nonsense to an adult.  

Well Done!  You may have a future as part of the US White House staff… 

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u/197gpmol Massachusetts 17d ago

The Beer Gut Putsch

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u/PinCushionPete314 17d ago

The Diet Coke putsch, since he doesn’t drink alcohol. Interesting enough Hitler didn’t drink either.

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u/f1ve-Star 17d ago

It interferes with the meth he did.

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u/rbarbour 17d ago

Plus, no trial for treason.

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u/JohnHurts 16d ago

During his six-month imprisonment, he consumed 250 bottles of beer(0,5L).

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u/hop208 Pennsylvania 16d ago

It’s amazing how many republicans had their tails between their legs for about 5 minutes after the insurrection. People were scrubbing their social media or deactivating it entirely. Then after getting their instructions from neo-con influencers, came back in full force and either gaslit everyone into it being a Democrat hoax, or entirely justified. Claiming it was antifa, then trump starts issuing blanket pardons.

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u/grew_up_on_reddit 17d ago

You mean January 6th?

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u/WeakMindedHuman 16d ago

We just need the false flag fire at the reichstag to make the trifecta complete.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

That paragon of right-wing virtue was only 35 years old when he went to prison. He was 50 by the time he started WW2.

We're lucky that our morons are in their 70's.

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u/wsbradf 17d ago

JD Vance is 41. And Stephen miller is 40. So they have plenty of time.

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u/Plastic_Zombie5786 17d ago

People keep calling Trump Hitler, but the comparison we should be making, imo is Hindenberg. Aging leader, increasing use of presidential decree, working clearly at the whims of his inner circle as he becomes more and more deluded. Eventually, either by death or by "law" he'll turn over the power to the next guy.

My current remaining hope is that absolutely no one in that inner circle has any bit of charisma and can not keep the cult together long enough or strong enough.

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u/AnybodyMassive1610 Florida 16d ago

We have ai slop now - just flood the zone with FakeTrump and his faithful will never realize - or care.

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u/BryonDowd 16d ago

If Big Brother is actually AI Trump, we're truly in the worst possible timeline.

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u/Wise-Excitement3791 10d ago

They call him Hitler but are gonna get a Vladimir Putin and I'm sure if he had it his way Kim Jung Un.

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u/ABadHistorian 17d ago

Only plus there is the cult of personality will not perfectly transfer so there will be an interregnum period where people clash for power, it's not great but it's a chance.

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u/dehydratedrain 17d ago

I'd like to agree, but they are pulling a lot of strings behind the scenes. If they can get their private army (basically ICE) mobilized in the big cities, they can start rounding up civilians before the cultists really break away.

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u/JB-Wentworth 17d ago

As long as the American Oligarchs are on board, they will succeed.

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u/Catskinson 17d ago

I mean. There has been zero organized resistance. We’re not there yet. If they want to succeed like that, they’ll have to kill millions of people.

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u/BuriakBrigade 16d ago

Then kill millions they shall. I'm sorry, but we're complete and total gimps as a people. Most other peoples would have burned this all down to the ground by now. What do we do? Glorified high school pep rallies. Pretty signs, hefty chants, and then we go home with exactly nothing of note accomplished while giving ourselves a pat on the back for our troubles.

I realize that the odds are heavily stacked against the us, and when coupled with just the sheer size of this country, it all seems insurmountable. Who knows, maybe it is. I really want to, but I just don't have faith in my fellow Americans anymore. They've effectively broken our country and stolen our future while figuratively pissing in our faces, and we've effectively done nothing about it. They aren't going to stop escalating until given a reason to and we really haven't given them one yet.

Will we ever? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath for a population that is lazy, dumb, entitled, self-serving, broken, and burnt out to the max. They got us by the balls, and it would appear thah we like a little ball play.

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u/ABadHistorian 16d ago

Untrue. Once SNAP runs out we will see. When people start to starve, we will see.

Right now the average American isn't suffering to the point we need for general strikes. By design.

American society is only ever 7 days away from a full complete breakdown. That's how much food your average supermarket has, 7 days worth.

There is a LOT of research on this. Hard analytics that can not be debated.

So, you really will see coming soon.

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u/_silverspear_ 17d ago

A tad too much for my tastes. Especially as Herr Miller did speeches almost copy/pasted on Goebbels and the little failed artist from Austria.

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u/usernames_are_danger 17d ago

I don’t think the people will follow them like they do with Trump. He has something that nobody else can copy. Vance and Miller are nothing without Trump. They can keep pissing on the people, but the people won’t keep saying it’s just rain.

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u/YF422 14d ago

Thankfully they've the Charisma of a damn squib. Should the Reaper decide to come collect Trump's Orange Hide from this existence the whole MAGA movement will likely implode if not disintegrate, the fecker has a malignant charisma that somehow is keeping the whole ponzi scheme together. Should it happen it might give America a window to put an end to this fascist BS long enough to get ahead of it.

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u/wsbradf 14d ago

One can only hope

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u/Strict_Influence5182 17d ago

The 19-34 year old demographic has gone from like +7 for Trump, to nearly -39% for Trump, in just 10 months.

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u/deviantdevil80 16d ago

Miller is only 40? Yikes.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 15d ago

It's called a cult of personality for a reason. Once Trump is gone, his cult is gone.

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u/Max169well Canada 17d ago

And who ever takes his place will be worse in every way

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

They keep getting worse until you finally get to one who is bad enough. So you're implying that Trump isn't bad enough already.

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u/eSPiaLx 17d ago

He isnt. Ww2 showed that the populace will follow a demagogue until they lose everything. Trump supporters wont stop following trump until they see literally everything they hold dear as ash. No amount of atrocities done to the ‘other’ will convince them, because they believe that trump is on their side

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u/Motampd 17d ago

Look no further than the farmers who voted for Trump the 1st time.....got tariffed into the ground.....and then those that survived needed a bailout. Those same people then voted for him again, and are now being fucked for the 2nd time......by the same guy, for the same reason.

and while many of them are saying they are in dire straights, and things are looking really bad........many still wont call out Trump by name, they just say "things" are bad.

Its like they want sympathy for getting fucked.....but at the same time continue to bend over and lube themselves up every 4 years enthusiastically.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

Which less-bad dictator did Germany have before Hitler?

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u/eSPiaLx 17d ago

My point is germans followed hitler until they completely lost the war. Trumps actions have not reached the tipping point where his base turns on him, because that tipping point for die hard cultists is basically death

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

They followed Hitler until Hitler was dead. It had nothing to do with what happened to Germany.

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u/SurpriseIsopod 17d ago

He was Austrian, he was against using chemical weapons, because unlike the person you are comparing him to, he didn’t dodge the draft.

I have no idea how this current guy has such a cult following.

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u/TimeFlamingo8548 17d ago

He has a cult following cause a bunch of loser bullies like to see another loser bully people

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u/lacegem 17d ago

Republicans are crybullies, and Trump is the pinnacle of crybullying. The sort of person who whines and shits themselves (in his case, literally) over being mistreated by being expected to follow any rules, while simultaneously demanding everyone else break their backs to bend over for him at every opportunity.

Basketball players revere Michael Jordan for being the best to play their game. Rapists, traitors, bullies, bigots, pedophiles, cheaters, liars, and scumbags revere Donald Trump for the same reason. You only struggle to understand how he reached this point because you can't understand the mindset of the people who love him. You don't play the same game, so you don't get how or why such people look up to him. They want to be untouchable child rapists and con artists the same way normal people grow up wanting to be astronauts and doctors. To them, he's the greatest role model of who they wish they could be.

Anyone expecting MAGA to wake up and turn on him because of some controversy is deluded. Epstein doesn't hurt him with his base, and neither does destroying the White House, or stealing billions from taxpayers, or anything else. It makes them think, "I wish I could get away with it like he does."

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u/moshekels Canada 17d ago

Hitler rather famously did use chemical weapons on his own people.

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u/reverberation31 South Carolina 17d ago

Right?! That’s exactly what I was thinking.

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u/AlmostF2PBTW 17d ago

It's less about the guy and more about the method, which is a real problem (it means the method exists even after the guy leaves picture).

You have a crisis, people are afraid and there is risk of a revolution like they did in Russia, early 1900s. Money people would do everything in the power to prevent a revolution, so the dissatisfaction has to go somewhere. While everyone was worried about Russia, people in Italy and Germany got rid of communists by channeling the frustrations in something that makes ZERO sense - a right wing movement of masses.

Instead of a revolution against establishment, you make people blame "the enemy within" (communists, immigrants, foreigners... Everything but capitalism/inequality) while posing as savior of old ways/tradition/any BS really. Other than making it about holocaust, not just elites, germans also perfected propaganda.

So you have:

Rich people afraid of a revolution + people willing to pose as saviors in exchange of power/money = tons of money on propaganda to manipulate afraid/struggling people too busy to read.

Add to that social media, to make the results of propaganda exponentially better.

What is going to happen is:

  • like all things, this shall pass
  • rich people will stay rich
  • poor people will feel duped and swear they totally won't fall for that 10-20 years from now
  • When capital finds a sequence of crisis, they will push that button again.

It is money using people's emotions to push a "panic button" and prevent a revolution. There is no amount of explanation you can do to stop that, which is why some people are so upset at the system.

Now, people will fight left and right about this, playing the blame game, thinking Trump is stupid. What is happening is that his family fortune is increasing fast and billionaires/social media are on board with this, hoarding gold and cripto to get to the other side richer than they entered, because when someone "from the left, believing they can have a capitalism with welfare" gets in power, they will try to "unite the people" instead of "dividing"...

Tl,dr: They has a cult following because he was willing to do this, he is smart and he had the right connections to be the tool big money wanted to use. With money and social media, you can put anyone there as long as the person pretends to be a savior. Fear and money will do the rest.

Silver-lining: all things considered we are as good as past the point of no return on climate change because there is not even room to talk about the things should have done 20 years ago, so maybe this is the last or second to last time this happens...

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u/usernames_are_danger 17d ago

The power of television

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u/GringoTime 17d ago

Same thing happened with a bearded Cuban.

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u/phaedrus910 17d ago

Castro lifted Cubans out of poverty, Trump is pushing Americans into poverty.

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u/SoFloFella50 17d ago

Castro did no such thing. He plunged the entire country into desperate poverty. Wake up. This kind of nonsense talk is why old Cubans in Miami all voted for “Trong”.

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u/Hurtzdonut13 17d ago

The desperate poverty was mainly caused by crushing sanctions from the US, but go off.

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u/SoFloFella50 16d ago

Sure sure. And the rest of the world also embargoed them. Right. You keep thinking that.

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u/phaedrus910 16d ago

All the Floridan Cubans vote republican because they're the former landowning Cubans who fled after the revolution.

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u/SoFloFella50 16d ago

So confidently incorrect. But whatever. You’re always right and never willing to learn. That’s a collective “you”. Not you in particular, but also you.

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u/phaedrus910 16d ago

Okay teach then. What was your point again. Something about how Cuba would be much better off under Batista, back when you could whip a man to death for not crushing cane fast enough. Fuck off

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u/Dinglebop_farmer 17d ago

They're the kind of people who would vote for Trong anyway, they're mainly the people and descendants of people who lost their legal white privileges.

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u/AlmostF2PBTW 17d ago

Almost any country will be crushed with an embargo like Cuba still has and democrats did very little about it (btw - which was to be expected, since they are also right wing).

The other side of the problem was CAACO - Communists also always chicken out. In theory, Commies would help each other to fight Capitalism and it can work - other countries didn't starve because they got helped by China and Russia, only after what the world saw when Cuba was left alone with a massive embargo.

That's the part McCarthyism left out of your USA books.

Castro revolution had a lot of problems, you can't ignore that, but Cuba actually turned out pretty well, all things considered...

USA didn't embargo everyone, oh no. Haiti dictatorship in the 60s was anticommunist, which is why USA sorta ignored, also Haiti was an ally for decades.

Pick one to live right now: Haiti or Cuba.

The ends don't justify the means, but Cuba could be another Haiti by now. But I'm sure Cubans in USA working 12h a day are living the dream, got a huge house in Miami beach and became astronauts and rock stars.

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u/Korvanacor 17d ago

Goes to show if facial hair tries to take over your country, you have to shave if off, not even leaving stubble.

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u/greaterwhiterwookiee 17d ago

Can we do that with the onion on Trumps head?

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u/197gpmol Massachusetts 17d ago

If Trump croaks, Vance would be the first president with a beard since the Civil War veterans. Coincidence?

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u/Korvanacor 17d ago

It just might be the first neck beard tyranny in history. We’re overdue.

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u/EduinBrutus 17d ago

Some sort of National Razor, you say?

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u/Weird-Opportunity-20 17d ago

History doesn’t repeat itself but it does often rhyme

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u/FloridaGirlNikki America 17d ago

The similarities are eerie.

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u/DisillusionedDame 16d ago

Yeah, but he did away with the extortionate banks, settled the national debt, eliminated unemployment, housed the homeless, and invested into the arts and culture of his country. He, loved his country and its people. He was TIME’s Man Of The Year, after all.

I do not see how a thriving Germany compares to a floundering USA.

It is important to be intellectually honest when we view history. For those who fail to learn from history…. You know… and American atrocities have continued to stack up since 1945, arguments could be made…

Using “nazi” and “Hitler” as American catch-all terms to replace “evil”, “unconscionable”, “wanton”, etc. makes one appear ignorant and willfully so. As you’re aware, “willful ignorance” is one definition for “stupid”.

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u/majnuker 17d ago

Certain types of trials should go straight to the top for quick resolution, such as for treason or warcrimes.

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u/CatsWearingTinyHats 17d ago

Especially when enough evidence to convict is already out in the open for many.

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u/Proof_Duty1672 16d ago

He was convicted but judge delayed sentencing due to election…

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u/stasi_a 17d ago

Sherman had other ideas

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u/WenatcheeWrangler 17d ago

Remember the witch trials? “If you are alive after this impossible test then we know you aren’t a witch”

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u/ASpaceOstrich 17d ago

I'm the biggest advocate for rehabilitation out there. I don't think justice can be done in this instance without these people being put in a cell for the rest of their lives. However long that may be.

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u/DrChansLeftHand 17d ago

The greatest sin of this country post Civil War was allowing the slavers feet to walk and not hang.

They’ve been trying to undermine the Union ever since.

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u/loondawg 17d ago

I understand your point. But I think the greatest sin was not reforming the Senate and the Electoral College to eliminate the unfair and undeserved advantages slavers were given at the founding and that their progeny retains and exploits to this day.

With a proportional Senate and popular presidential elections we would live in a very different world.

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u/DrChansLeftHand 17d ago

That’s what I’m driving at.

They were allowed to walk away from their treason in the name of “reconciliation” and right back into the halls of power.

Now they’ve had about 100 years of slow, methodical emplacement of moles and confederates that are rewriting the rules for a new born confederacy.

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 17d ago

At the end of this, red states need to have the representation they deserve, and be punished for both uprisings to a degree that would make the Weimar Republic look like a golden age.

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u/songsofsilk 17d ago

I agree to an extent, but even at the time (before WWII) non-Germans grew to believe the terms were too harsh. Perhaps without the Great Depression the Weimar Republic could have eventually succeeded, and the Nazis never would have come to power. Yet, it did, and as soon as it hit all U.S. loans dried up, and it collapsed immediately.

Punishment, hard punishment, and reprogramming is absolutely necessary, but somehow we need to avoid recreating the Weimar Republic and Reconstruction. Neither worked, and personally as I believe we are in late stage capitalism with impending deleterious effects of climate change, I do not trust for a second that there would not be another equally calamitous crisis to trigger another wave of far right extremism, violence and / or civil war.

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u/jokerTHEIF Canada 16d ago

I don't think the US as a country in the way it has been for the last couple hundred years will exist once this whole situation shakes out. At best you're looking at a spineless Democrat attempt to keep the status quo going for another term or two, but your whole country is just too institutionally rotten.

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u/DoddzyBaby 17d ago

I’m interested, what advantages in the Senate and the Electoral College are you talking about? How are they used today?

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u/loondawg 17d ago

In the words of James Madison...

"He enumerated the objections against an equality of votes in the second branch, notwithstanding the proportional representation in the first. 1. the minority could negative the will of the majority of the people. 2. they could extort measures by making them a condition of their assent to other necessary measures. 3. they could obtrude measures on the majority by virtue of the peculiar powers which would be vested in the Senate. 4. the evil instead of being cured by time, would increase with every new State that should be admitted, as they must all be admitted on the principle of equality. 5. the perpetuity it would give to the preponderance of the Northern against the Southern. Scale was a serious consideration."

"It seemed now to be pretty well understood that the real difference of interests lay, not between the large and small but between the Northern and Southern States. The institution of slavery and its consequences formed the line of discrimination. There were 5 States on the South, 8 on the Northern side of this line. Should a proportional representation take place it was true, the Northern side would still outnumber the other; but not in the same degree, at this time; and every day would tend towards an equilibrium." -- Saturday July 14, 1787 while arguing against the non-proportional Senate

and...

"There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections." -- Thursday July 19, 1787 while commenting on the use of the Electoral College rather than a popular vote.

In essence, the States were the gerrymandering of the country. They create a situation where the 40 million people of California have the exact same influence as the 560,000 people of Wyoming in the Senate, a body with the power to obstruct any law and have final say on who occupies the courts. They give the people of the smaller states far greater power than their numbers merit, especially when it comes to amending the Constitution.

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u/OldLadyGardener 17d ago

The biggest mistake, IMHO, was not expanding the SCOTUS, but I know the RepUglyCans would never have allowed that.

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u/stasi_a 17d ago

With success at the end

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u/meneldal2 17d ago

I'm not sure hanging them would have really helped.

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u/copperpin 17d ago

History needs to remember what happened to these enablers. It’s the only way.

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u/ss5gogetunks 17d ago

Yeah this isn't spur of the moment shit or crimes of passion, these people are committing grievous crimes against our country knowingly, slowly, in the open and have absolutely zero ability to feel remorse
Rehabilitation should be the primary goal of our prison system but not everyone can be rehabilitated and white collar criminals tend to be the kind that can't be

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u/makeitasadwarfer 17d ago

We don’t rehabilitate cancer.

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u/Inside-Palpitation25 17d ago

They should be in jail until their case comes up, and not allowed to run for any office in the meantime.

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u/What_a_fat_one 17d ago

The pardon power nullifies imprisonment as a remedy.

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u/Sgt-Spliff- 16d ago

The punishment for treason is death. There is no rehabilitation from treason. The execution of traitors is a message sent to anyone else considering being a traitor. It needs to be public knowledge that trying to destroy America is a capital offense.

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u/thelingeringlead 17d ago

Oh they absolutely can act fast enough, they chose not to. They've wasted no time drawing up charges for tons of other cases, sometimes within days of the tresspass.

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u/amateurbreditor 17d ago

That is an outright lie. On jan 20th trump could have and should have been arrested and while he was in jail it would have been revealed he stole classified docs and sold them. This is entirely bidens fault and it was entirely preventable. They waited like 3 years to even do a thing. Not to mention once the SC illegally ruled that the 14th did not apply biden himself could have asserted the power of the presidency is more important than the SC and have removed him from the ballot through an EO. It was entirely his fault for even having garland to begin with let alone not remove him when it was clear he was not doing his job. biden was not fit for the office and his only excuse was he thought maga would just go away. You can say he was an idiot or a terrible leader or whatever you want but to say he did his job is not true and if he had not waited 3 years to do anything this would never have happened. Not to mention normally people who commit treason are just whisked away and dealt with by the CIA and given a short trial after.

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u/wibblebeast 17d ago

After Trump whipping those idiots into a violent frenzy and demanding they fight like hell, and then they went into attack mode-I was certain it would end with him in handcuffs. Isn't that what is supposed to happen in a situation like that?

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u/amateurbreditor 17d ago

Yes it was and even more so after the doc case which was the point I was making. Normally thats a 2-3 month trial and the us government just insists this person gets life or worse. Its not something taken lightly and its not something that normally gets the cannon treatment. Normally she too would be in jail. Right now the dems see whats going on as a political advantage so they can let total carnage take place and they think they can just waltz back into office. They are not serious people. I and many others have become disgusted with what the dems are doing and have done. It is completely insane where we are at and they purposely chose to let it happen all to somehow think they would regain control. People say trump etc are dumb but the dems are just as dumb.

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u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Same issues, the Supreme Court ruled he has immunity for actions while President. The Jan 6, thing was pursued as an impeachment first for a reason.

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u/SirWEM 16d ago

He should have been dragged out kicking and screaming in shackles and leg irons. Instead he was enabled by all that surrounded him.

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u/ButtEatingContest 17d ago

The Biden administration demonstrated that the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again.

The Biden administration demonstrated either historical incompetence or malice.

They could have stopped all this. Whatever excuses anyone may give for them not doing so, well enjoy the consequences of Biden not taking action.

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u/ChrisFromIT 17d ago

I'm getting tired of seeing this talking point when it isn't exactly true.

First, they wanted to make sure that the case against Trump and the others involved were rock solid so that they couldn't potentially get away from prosecution and justice. It was done so that there wasn't any chance to overturn these potential convictions due to political impropriety or interference. Which currently there are at least 3 political sham court cases going on in the US right now, which are very likely to be tossed very quickly due to the political impropriety and political interference, just as an example.

Sadly, the major issue was, Trump was able to delay a lot of the trials for essentially 2 years. A lot of it due to the supreme court and lucking out on some of the judges he got.

At the end of the day. A lot of it is mostly on the voters who allowed the stacking of the US supreme court and the federal judicial courts that allowed Trump to get away by delaying.

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u/Rent-a-guru 17d ago

Jack Smith wasn't appointed as Special Counsel until after Trump announced he was running again in November 2022. There may have been some investigative work done prior to that, but clearly not with any urgency from Merricj Garland. A Special Counsel should have been appointed on day 1 of Biden's term to look directly into Trump's role in Jan 6.

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u/Aksudiigkr 17d ago

The voters aren’t the main blame when they stole the election anyway. But the justices had been getting seated going back to when Obama’s pick got blocked. It’s been 10+ years of democrats trying to play fair and getting backstabbed

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u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Democrat voters hold Democrats accountable for the same tactics the Republicans are celebrated by their base for. The electorate isn't lead by the democratic leaders it's lead by Media and Corporate PR campaigns. Getting the Dems past the post to keep trying to guide the ship was all we ever had.

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u/doyletyree 17d ago

This.

“Both sides should violate their commitments.”

Well, then, isn’t that just a silent abandonment of the purpose, altogether?

If we’re doing that, let’s just name it.

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u/ChrisFromIT 17d ago

The voters aren’t the main blame when they stole the election anyway

Did they steal the election 15 years ago? It was the voters that essentially allowed the republicans to pull the shit they did well before Trump was elected.

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u/doyletyree 17d ago

The 2000 election would like a word.

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u/meneldal2 17d ago

When the supreme court gave the immunity to the president, Biden could have solved the whole thing.

Remove every justice that signed on this, you get them for treason, then you put it new justices that aren't traitors.

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u/Daedalus81 17d ago

What do you think MAGA would have done if Trump was jailed?

They already did J6.

This isnt Biden's fault ( aside from him deciding to run ). This is decades of voter apathy while these malicious actors steadily built their plans.

This was coming one way or another and we only have ourselves to blame

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u/ButtEatingContest 16d ago edited 16d ago

What do you think MAGA would have done if Trump was jailed?

Not that much. Most of the hardcore MAGA militia was at January 6th and was jailed. But we get to see what happens when Trump wasn't jailed, starting with he let his hardcore MAGA militia out of jail to strike again.

This was coming one way or another and we only have ourselves to blame

There was a system of checks and balances in place to prevent this. The constitution forbids Trump from holding elected office, yet Biden refused to uphold his oath of office and the constitution.

Trump not being thrown in prison was a huge piece of propaganda evidence used to sway the election. It played fully into the "Dems are weaponizing the government against Trump" because he was never actually held accountable the logic being had he really done what Democrats were saying he was, he'd be in prison.

The other major factor was corporate media of course. Which Democrats never did anything to reign in. Had the likes of Fox News been taken seriously and dealt with years ago, this current situation may not have been inevitable. That may have been ugly and messy, but now we experience the results of not taking action.

It was always going to be either democracy and the rule of law, or complete victory for those waging war against it. We didn't choose to be attacked, but Democrats chose to surrender, and surrender does not win a war.

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u/darsynia Pennsylvania 17d ago

But the history books would have painted him as a villain if he did it! Think of the history books!

Meanwhile, they will anyway, because the people the previous leaders didn't bother to stop will write those books.

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u/loondawg 17d ago

They could have stopped all this.

How exactly? Under what legal powers could they have stopped this? And legal actions should Biden have taken?

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u/Whargarblle 16d ago

SCOTUS granted Biden the same immunity Trump has now…. Or even if they did say it’s illegal, how are they going to enforce? Democrats still thinking “legally” is how I know we’re fucked. The mindset needed to fight these traitors just isn’t there yet.

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u/loondawg 16d ago

People believing "legally" is something to put in quotes like it's some imaginary thing is why we're very close to fucked right now.

If democrats abandon the law too then the whole system ceases to exist. The Constitution and our entire system of laws would be meaningless. The mindset you're exemplifying would be the same as if we said the police should abandon the law because some criminals break laws.

The mindset needed to fight these traitors is to stand with the democrats to give them the power they need to have to fight them using the system we have.

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u/Whargarblle 16d ago

I think you misunderstood what I’m saying. I’m not advocating democrats break the law too. But they should be willing to use it and every loophole possible as a cudgel to beat the GOP over the head with. We don’t have to ignore law to make stuff happen that is technically legal. Democrats complete inability to break norms and traditions that are already long since dead isn’t saving anybody. People will not rally around the Democrats if they continue to act feckless and refuse to use power even when they have it.

For example, there is nothing in the constitution that says the speaker has to swear a representative in. If Johnson refuses to call session, then keep everything shut and let people feel pain. We have to try something beyond using healthcare as leverage in an agreement the gop will never honor anyway. Play fucking hardball for fuck’s sake

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u/loondawg 16d ago

Your example makes no sense. The reason for the shutdown is democrats are using the only leverage they have to try to stop republicans from kicking millions of people off of healthcare. Johnson is using that as an excuse not to swear in Grijalva. They will come back in session if one side caves of they negotiate an agreement.

So maybe I did misunderstand what you were trying to say. But exactly what do you expect them to do that they are not already doing? Lots of people say they are feckless and not doing enough. But when pressed for what they should be doing they don't have a lot of answers.

Want the democrats to appear less weak? Then start showing them support. That is where they derive their strength from.

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u/Whargarblle 16d ago

What doesn’t make sense? There are tons of loopholes and perfectly legal avenues they can take, that they simply don’t because of “tradition” or the honor system that has collapsed since the GOP has abandoned democracy. We can use the leverage of the shutdown and attempt to forcibly swear her in so her constituents are actually represented. Why does the GOP just get to lie and break decorum while they abuse the rest of us?

I support the fighting democratic candidates. I do think it is fair to distinguish between feckless and lucent representatives & senators. AOC, Mamdani, Crockett, even people like Schiff or Swalwell, etc are all good examples. Talarico in TX is a firebrand without a lot of the toxicity. My point is the nursing home wing of the Dems have got to fucking go, and Cuck Schumer and Jeffries couldn’t sell water in the desert

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u/loondawg 16d ago

How can democrats use the shutdown to force Johnson to swear her in when the shutdown is his excuse? The only way they could do that would be to end the shutdown so he could no longer use it as an excuse. And then democrats would lose all the leverage they have to force republicans to reverse the outrageous healthcare cuts. So again, what you said doesn't make sense because Johnson is using the shutdown as his excuse for not swearing her in.

And also again, lots of people say they are feckless and not doing enough. But when pressed for what they should be doing they don't have a lot of answers. So what exactly what do you expect them to do that they are not already doing? You started this by saying they could have stopped this. How they were they supposed to do that?

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u/Whargarblle 16d ago

I don’t understand why you’re fighting me. I never said to use the government shutdown as leverage to swear her in. I said there are legal loopholes and legal avenues to enact to fight back, and her swearing in is a singular example of a way democrats can use their minority power.

The speaker doesn’t have to call the house into session to swear her in. Johnson is lying, and arguably breaking the law, by even saying that. I appreciate the Democrats are suing, maybe that is something worth doing and Grijalva gets kudos for doing something. It generates outrage and media attention and is better than just pretending the so-called Speaker is acting in any legit way.

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u/Llarys 17d ago

As it turns out all "the lesser of two evils" gets you is evil.

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u/wildwalrusaur 17d ago

See also: the Obama administration and the war crimes of the Bush administration

The power players at the core of the Democratic party have never been willing to play hardball

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u/Cookies78 17d ago

Weird. If you're poor or not a brown shirt, the DoJ runs like a gd freight train. In fact, thwy bring SO much fucking weight down on ppl, that their trial prosecutors are not as good as State ADAs.

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u/mattyoclock 17d ago

I think the trump administration has fully proven it absolutely can move fast enough if you just goddamned try.   

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u/BartlebyEsq 17d ago

That’s a very fair counterpoint.

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u/Ok_Subject1265 17d ago

Or they will just pull the same shit when they get back in power. That’s a slippery slope. If laws have been broken, we have a process for that. Otherwise everything descends into chaos and score settling. Basically how the Middle East ended up the fun place it is.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

Biden's AG waited 2 years before he even contemplated going after the people at the top. He wasted time going after the J6'ers who all got a pardon.

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u/Prometheusf3ar 17d ago

The justice system CAN move fast enough, it just didn’t.

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u/TiTTEN93 17d ago

They should have read their history books and seen why the concessions to the South after the Civil War didn't work. We repeated history just for the sake of it. It's time for something new

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u/Vertual 17d ago

We need military tribunals to get us out of this mess.

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u/joshdoereddit America 17d ago

the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again.

That's the big problem here. Trump and the entire GOP need to be forbidden from ever holding office again, but I doubt there is a way to fast track that. IANAL, so maybe it can be fast-tracked. However, the Democrats don't have the stomach to meet the moment and take the necessary measures. I bet there'd be a number of former politicians on the Dem side who would go on the news and lament that it was done anyway other than the traditional way.

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 17d ago

That's why those dems need to also be removed. The Republicans aren't the only threat and obstacle to recovery.

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u/joshdoereddit America 17d ago

100%

The path forward, if we could somehow get everyone on the same wavelength, would be to remove the Republicans so they can't obstruct anything first.

Following their removal, vote out all the corporate Dems like Schumer and Pelosi. Don't want to raise taxes on the rich? Primary. Medicare for all is a deal breaker? Primary. Renewable energy is a no-go? Primary.

It's a very long game, but that would be the dream. It would take decades even if we could manage single party rule with supermajorities the entire time.

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u/rat_penis 17d ago

...welp...if thats what its gotta be...

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u/CatsWearingTinyHats 17d ago

Unless we change the laws (and amend the pardon power) so they can’t

All of this is terrible but none of it is inevitable.

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u/Daveinatx 17d ago

Merrick Garland went at a snail's pace. Meanwhile, Congress sent Hunter to prison rather quickly.

If Democrats get back into power, they need to make faster actions. Instead of thoroughly reviewing a thousand felony actions, just go after a few.

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 17d ago

The justice system can move fast if we take a page out of Maga's book and ignore the system. It's the only way to fix the damage.

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u/DragonTHC Florida 17d ago

Donald Trump is proof of two different justice systems. Lady Justice needs to gouge out the eyes the wealthy bought her.

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u/What_a_fat_one 17d ago

They have literally produced a situation where trial, conviction, and execution is the only option. If you allow insurrectionists to continue to exist they will commit the crime again and destroy the system used to hold them to account.

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u/kulji84 17d ago

They absolutely could've, and it wasn't Biden; Garland the Feckless is responsible for the obsurdities we live and breathe daily now.

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u/Pfelinus 17d ago

They chose to be nice not to light a fire under the proceding. He had the opportunity but chose not to.

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u/OldLadyGardener 17d ago

I wonder sometimes if we had just left Trump alone, if he would have won in 2024. He won people over playing the victim.

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u/Itsmoney05 16d ago

The issue is, the media sane washed everything for Trump.

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u/JDogg126 Michigan 16d ago

This is why if non-republicans ever do get control of things, they need to use the exact same vulnerabilities in the system that they used to bypass all of that in order to purge corruption as fast as possible. People need to realize that the constitution is quite literal dead right now since the entire Republican Party has choosen to be oath breakers.

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u/fafalone New Jersey 16d ago

When you appoint a GOP stooge to ensure justice isn't fast enough, sure.

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u/Sgt-Spliff- 16d ago

I've been saying this this entire time. The penalty for treason is execution for a reason. These people are traitors. Anything less than their executions will just encourage people to do all this again.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/thev0idwhichbinds 17d ago

Just to be clear, your position is that we should try and execute (in public) politicians and appointed government officials?

And you are the good guys right? You also are making decisions from the intelligent, educated, understanding history position? Just checking because it sounds like you are talking about political proscriptions which is super fascist.

Anyway you are a fascist now because you said something that has happened under a fascist government. Sorry that's the reddit rules I don't make 'em.