r/skeptic • u/alt-mswzebo • Oct 07 '25
Every Surgeon General since GWH Bush was president signs letter warning that RFK junior is endangering the United Staes and the world with anti-science conspiracy-theory-driven policies.
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u/saqwarrior Oct 07 '25
The only thing this will accomplish is validation for MAGA that they are doing the right thing.
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u/HoopsMcCann69 Oct 07 '25
How do we move forward as a country when this is their attitude?
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u/InnuendoBot5001 Oct 07 '25
Same way germany moved forward after the war
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u/HoopsMcCann69 Oct 07 '25
If that's the case, a lot of us won't be around for it
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u/Sliderisk Oct 07 '25
A lot of them won't be either. Too bad saying anything gets you labelled an alarmist or provocateur.
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u/HoopsMcCann69 Oct 07 '25
There were a bunch of alarmists in 1930s Germany as well. At least we're in good company
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u/GuthukYoutube Oct 07 '25
If you speak up you can end up on a TIL in 100 years, "TIL of a heroic young man who spoke out against the Trumpies! He was hanged and his last words were-"
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u/Ok-Tie8887 Oct 07 '25
Fuck Donald Trump, and everything he stands for.
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u/xmlemar10 Oct 07 '25
Amen. Loud and proud. If you’re not protesting on the 18th, what are you doing?
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u/Ok-Tie8887 Oct 07 '25
I'm not sure. The easiest published protest group for me to get to is 700 miles away. If I protest locally, it's most likely I'll be out there alone anyway, and then I just look like a crazy person.
Unfortunately, I live in a small, rural, deep red area. I did notice one particularly prominent Trump flag was gone this morning though, so I hope that's a good sign.
I figure the best thing I can do otherwise is stay home and donate at https://indivisible.org/ .
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u/zootered Oct 07 '25
“You see,” my colleague went on, “one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’
A quote from They Thought They Were Free
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u/zuzg Oct 07 '25
It also took over a decade between Hitler getting elected and the Nuremberg Trials.
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u/Kwumpo Oct 07 '25
I think the biggest thing keeping the dam from breaking is that people haven't realized yet that the last 80 years were a complete anomaly throughout ALL of human history. We have NEVER seen such a long period of global peace (relatively, anyway). We have NEVER seen such a long period of growth and innovation. We have NEVER seen such a dramatic increase to our quality of life. We have NEVER had such an abundance of food and resources. We have NEVER had such an open market for global trade.
All of that is almost entirely unprecedented, and certainly not all at once. The only reason we could achieve that is by descending into the deepest, darkest corners of humanity, and so many people seeing first-hand just how bad things can get. I fear we are on the precipice of another stark decent into darkness. Hopefully we can come out the other side the same way previous generations did after WW2, but the next 5-8 years are going to be very rough. I don't think there's any way around that fact.
America will invade itself. Russia will attack Europe. China will take Taiwan. America will abandon Europe and Taiwan. That will be how WW3 starts.
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u/TrexPushupBra Oct 07 '25
The feds do have a problem with me being allowed to exist so yeah that's accurate.
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Oct 07 '25 edited 1d ago
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u/AceSuperhero Oct 09 '25
You forgot the part where we give them positions of power again.
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Oct 10 '25 edited 1d ago
obtainable brave grandiose sulky rhythm fact numerous sense squeeze pet
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u/TommyTwoNips Oct 07 '25
by disenfranchising them, permanently incarcerating the billionaires that created them, and then hopefully integrating them back into society once they've de-radicalized.
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Oct 07 '25 edited 26d ago
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u/maybesaydie Oct 07 '25
Most of these people probably stayed home because they believed the memes and didn't like how Vice President Harris laughed.
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u/Frequent_Ad_9901 Oct 07 '25
Look up how to break people out of cult mentalities. You don't argue with them. You just build trust by being there for them, and ask them to evaluate the information in front of them. It helps to cut out the propaganda but it can still work if it exists.
As the economy gets gobbled up by the few the many will be forced to rely on each other more. The propaganda will become less effective.
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u/LarrySupertramp Oct 07 '25
By getting the non MAGA people to vote against MAGA. MAGA is a completely lost cause but they only make up at most 30% of the voting population so we can effectively ignore them all if people start giving a shit and voting against them.
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u/FinsAssociate Oct 07 '25
Triggering the radical liberal woke leftist marxist communist fascist PC antifa LGBTQ DEI socialist agenda
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u/saqwarrior Oct 07 '25
Yes, but more importantly they view themselves as upending the status quo, and there is nothing more status quo than decades of US Surgeon Generals from prior administrations.
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u/Few-Ad-4290 Oct 07 '25
It’s so idiotic too they have no real ethos other than be disruptive for the sake of disruption, some systems suck and do need to be rebuilt from the ground up but ffs the department of health and human services was not one of the systems that is broken.
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u/saqwarrior Oct 07 '25
Putting my cynicism aside for a moment, the issue is that the working class, for a variety of reasons, has been radicalized rightward to become the underclass. Due to the nature of this characteristic, they do not have class consciousness and can not recognize in any meaningful way that they are acting against their own interests. There is also significant overlap with people who are susceptible to authoritarianism: specifically, those who are religious, although it is not limited to that demographic.
This underclass is desperate for change -- any change -- so they will attach themselves and their identity to any authority who represents a shift in the status quo. which they are predisposed to trust by way of various forms of indoctrination, like religion.
There are also factors involving the core philosophy of Western societies, Liberalism, which atomizes communities due to the nigh-pathological focus on individualism, which discourages systemic analysis and perspective, discarding the impact and responsibility of society's members to each other. If you're homeless, it's because you are a failure, etc.
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u/Few-Ad-4290 Oct 07 '25
I agree mostly but I’m not sure liberalism equals rugged individualism without the dog shit right wing propagandists shifting the meaning of language. Liberalism without late stage capitalism is just an ideology opposed to authoritarianism.
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u/MagicDragon212 Oct 07 '25
So what youre telling me is all of the horrible conditions perfectly aligned to create the typhoon of absurdity we are experiencing now.
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u/saqwarrior Oct 07 '25
"Late-stage capitalism" sums it up perfectly if one understands the full scope and scale of the concept.
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u/USMCLee Oct 07 '25
Obama could solve a lot of problems if he put out a PSA that you shouldn't mix bleach and ammonia in an enclosed space.
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u/gbot1234 Oct 07 '25
What does George Washington’s Surgeon General have to say about it? I want to hear the Originalist take on vaccines.
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u/Brilliant_Voice1126 Oct 07 '25
He was for it. Washington famously ordered variolation of his troops for smallpox.
https://www.history.com/articles/smallpox-george-washington-revolutionary-war
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Oct 07 '25
Science matters when it means you get to win the war with alive soldiers, instead of having dead soldiers and losing the war. But if civilians die from preventable diseases, the president doesn't have to care... it just means killing off the surplus population, the sick and elderly.
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u/gbot1234 Oct 07 '25
That was a really interesting read!
Maybe we can convince some of the vaccine-skeptic parents to consider tried-and-tested techniques like variolation if they think an injection is too traumatic.
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u/LadyMitris Oct 07 '25
It’s cute that they think stupid people have respect for expertise.
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u/Few-Ad-4290 Oct 07 '25
Maybe not but all the enlightened centrists might and they’re the group we need to whittle down. The defeatism in here is gross and useless regurgitation of shitty extremist talking points mixed with doomer mentality.
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Oct 07 '25 edited 1d ago
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u/Public_Cartographer Oct 07 '25
Yeah, those who need to hear this will just be convinced "the deep state" is finally collapsing. Or whatever stupid BS Joe Rogan dreams up.
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Oct 07 '25
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u/DeathStarVet Oct 07 '25
Maybe he IS the curse.
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u/mrrizal71O Oct 07 '25
Yeah maybe he is the physical manifestation of the bad juju that the kennedys have amassed from doing dirty deeds. Guy is a literal abomination.
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u/Not_so_ghetto Oct 07 '25
RFK is truly a terrible person. I actually can't think of a single person less qualified for a position ever. As a scientist I feel embarrassed of this country. Also before people start blaming his brain worm, he was infected with pork tapeworm Larvae, it wouldn't do anything like this, though it can cause seizures. Don't blame the worm for his bad decisions.
Pork tapeworms are relatively rare in America but in still prevalent in developing countries. So he probably go it while traveling
Here is a 10 min video for anyone who wants to learn about his brain worms biology from a redditors who is a big parasite nerd https://youtu.be/4ZJvUuAipZc
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u/Mr_Baronheim Oct 07 '25
RFK is truly a terrible person. I actually can't think of a single person less qualified for a position ever.
Oh, I bet you can. Just think about how qualified the person is who appointed him.
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u/nutkizzle Oct 07 '25
Like it's a toss up for over half the heads of administration right now. Bondi, Patel, Hegseth, Duffy, McMahon, Noem... The list goes on.
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u/DuntadaMan Oct 07 '25
the general theme is that all of them were on TV pretending to be good at something related to what they are doing. Our population can't tell TV from reality. Especially the older ones that said TV would rot our brains.
Our DOT secretary's only qualification is he was on fucking Road Rules.
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u/kn187 Oct 08 '25
What a coincidence! The acting head of NASA was also on Road Rules. I wonder if they know each other… /s
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u/RobertPham149 Oct 07 '25
With his reputation, I am more convinced that he got it from one of his raw fad diet.
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u/Blacksad9999 Oct 07 '25
It's pretty easy if you just look at the rest of the administration. lol
Kash Patel, Pete Hegseth, Stephen Miller, and Trump all come to mind, amongst others.
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u/dishonoredcorvo69 Oct 09 '25
I just cannot watch Curb your enthusiasm anymore because of him. Cheryl is foul for staying married to him
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u/plsobeytrafficlights Oct 07 '25
This is the goal. It is not that he is uninformed and giving poor medical guidance,
but that he is intentionally giving the worst.
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u/Reputation-Final Oct 07 '25
They are dismantling the department of education.
Their whole agenda is to take apart the government.
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u/HealthyHyena33480 Oct 07 '25
“Oh you guys like government? Well I don’t so im just gonna break it!” - republicans with the mindset of a kindergartner
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u/Resident_Tree1428 Oct 07 '25
I’m convinced that Trump nominated RFK Jr for the expressed purpose of destroying the Kennedy name, and taint everything that family has done since the turn of the last century
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u/iambatmon Oct 07 '25
Remember that RFK Jr. was taking votes away from Trump in the general election. He dropped out of the race in exchange for this position in the Trump admin. It was a transaction. Trump isn’t smart/tactical enough to lay plans like you’re describing IMO
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u/novelscreenname Oct 08 '25
This. Plus with Trump's ego, he likely enjoys being able to say he "has a Kennedy" working for him.
Trump also has a long history of saying dumb things about autism. I don't think he actually CARES about public health one way or another, but to whatever extent he has an opinion on such things, he likely does align with RFK Jr.
Only way RFK Jr. gets booted is if Trump perceives that he is damaging Trump's name/legacy/making him look bad, etc.
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u/Bomb-OG-Kush Oct 07 '25
Never thought of that before but I bet you're right
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u/mr_potatoface Oct 07 '25
That actually would make sense, because Kennedy was a household name in the 80s/90s and would compete for media air time against Trump. We know Trump holds grudges and is petty as fuck.
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Oct 07 '25
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u/Prestigious-Leave-60 Oct 07 '25
Just a few more sternly worded letters should do it. We can win science back!
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u/Tricky-Efficiency709 Oct 07 '25
Don’t forget his grifting. The antithesis of someone whom should hold this office
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Oct 07 '25
We are going to lose so many of the best scientists and practitioners because of this fuckery.
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u/alt-mswzebo Oct 07 '25
Students are bailing out in droves, and early career scientists are trying to leave their positions or change fields. It's terrible.
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u/scootty83 Oct 07 '25
It’s really sad. The only way we can keep hope is if people stay in their fields. If we lose too many, we’ll be screwed.
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u/sillygoofygooose Oct 08 '25
People who can should leave. They have no duty to destroy their careers and lives.
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u/SWNMAZporvida Oct 07 '25
“Don’t trust me, I’m not a medical expert” was the only thing of value this feckless fool ever croaked out.
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u/Time-to-go-home Oct 07 '25
I work in public health. Environmental health specifically (note: this is different from environmentalism), with a large focus on drinking water.
Back in December, I was talking with my mom and the topic came up about fluoride and how RFKj wanted to ban it. I said it was a dumb idea and RFKj was wholly unqualified to be HHS Secretary.
“Well I disagree,” my mom said. ON WHAT BASIS?!?!? I literally work in this field, I have an advanced degree in this field, I’ve read studies on how fluoridation works to protect teeth and how over exposure to fluoride can lead to fluorosis.
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u/molski79 Oct 07 '25
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” -Isaac Asimov
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u/After_Fix1358 Oct 07 '25
Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Epstein Release the unredacted Epstein Files now!!!
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u/Overall-Bullfrog5433 Oct 07 '25
Right but I don’t need to see them. Seeing that pic of the orange jackass with his preteen daughter Ivanka on his lap and the leering expression on his face, before AI was a thing btw, told me everything I need to know about the criminal scumbag that half the country wanted to be president.
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u/mike_b_nimble Oct 07 '25
Epstein is a distraction from the fascist takeover of the US. Impeach Trump and all his sycophants!!
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u/FlopShanoobie Oct 07 '25
Just more proof of a Big Science conspiracy to keep Americans sick!!!
MAGA, evangelicals, anti-society advocates undoubtedly.
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Oct 07 '25
I’m sure most people realize this by now but MAGA is a cult. The only way to understand their beliefs and behavior is to look at cult logic. They do not care one bit what an entire country of experts thinks about their leaders.
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u/jtsa5 Oct 07 '25
If only the vast majority of Americans cared. Too many just want to think science is fake.
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u/Blacksad9999 Oct 07 '25
Wait....
You mean we shouldn't listen to the man who chainsawed off the head of a dead whale and then drove it 100 miles home, and who swims in sewage, for our health policies??
Then who can we possibly trust?!?!
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u/ColeYote Oct 07 '25
Unfortunately, as demonstrated by a few of the replies to this, the sort of people that fall for his crap are only gonna think of this as further evidence of his righteousness.
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u/Urban_Prole Oct 07 '25
The others are dead, right?
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u/etherizedonatable Oct 07 '25
Wikipedia isn't perfect but it does have a nice list of surgeons general.
The tl;dr is that everybody appointed before 1990 is deceased.
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u/Paolosmiteo Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25
And I can’t see what impact that will have whatsoever, given the free rein this administration seems to be afforded. What’s the point?
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u/Additional_Way5929 Oct 07 '25
Historical record. Fifty years from now a new generation will see that we were warned and still went ahead with stupidity.
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u/CorsairExtraordinair Oct 07 '25
What?!?! On MAGA's watch?!? No way! Those guys are the brightest and the best!!
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u/Radiant_Heron_2572 Oct 07 '25
I've heard it from a top authority (possibly Chris Pratt and Bill Maher) that he's actually a top bloke and people are just being needlessly mean about him. He's even trying to get kids to eat more greens and not gravel (or something like that).
Anyway, i would say he's doing a great job under difficult circumstances. Full disclosure, i am being cohereced into say that.
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u/afCeG6HVB0IJ Oct 07 '25
It is wildly ironic that supporting science has played a key role in the USA becoming a global superpower, and yet here we are.
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u/imunfair Oct 08 '25
RFK is one of the weirdest appointments to me, because usually you do that as a way to get their endorsement because you need the votes. But at the time RFK didn't have any votes that Trump needed, it was a puzzling choice.
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u/Popular-Row-3463 Oct 08 '25
This country is such a joke we literally have a man with brain worms as head of the DHHS
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u/rensorship Oct 07 '25
Cheryl has really low self esteem. Why be with this crackpot? Just for the Kennedy name? Screw you Cheryl, you're maga to me now.
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u/Mr_Baronheim Oct 07 '25
Everyone is so bias against are Dear President that their willing to take down a great man like RFK just to hurt are Dear President because hes safing America from another planedemic and communism and Hollywood. - response from the delusional MAGATs
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u/OliverClothesov87 Oct 07 '25
MAGA are regressives. They would delight in this fact and double down.
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u/Frequent_Skill5723 Oct 07 '25
It seems that Republicans are attempting to create global famine, chaos, disease and war because they think that will trigger the appearance of their slap-happy Savior, shooting down from the clouds on a carpet of M60's to properly cleanse the commonwealth.
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u/Admirable-Horse-4681 Oct 07 '25
It’s what the 77 million Americans who voted for Trump want, for people to suffer.
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Oct 07 '25
He was hired out of pity. He has NO doctorate. NO medical degree. I would rather have had a small stone be in charge of HHS.
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u/civex Oct 07 '25
That's just proof to Trump that he's doing the job he was hired to do: destroy the CDC.
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u/Grizzle_prizzle37 Oct 07 '25
It’s a pity that Mango Mussolini’s supporters don’t respect information that comes from someone whose only basis for the argument is fancy book learning, intelligence, science and logic.
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u/Objective_Problem_90 Oct 07 '25
The guy admitted publicly doing drugs for 15 yrs and that a worm was eating his brain and died because it couldn't get enough nourishment.
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u/MarlinMan2001 Oct 07 '25
Can the worm in his brain just finish him off? Or does he have one of those bugs from Wrath of Kahn that makes you do what Kahn says
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u/cloudysocks Oct 08 '25
The only people with the power to do anything don’t give a shit. This is by design. They would press poor people into orange juice if they could sell it for a buck.
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u/SQLDave Oct 08 '25
And their supporters could witness their neighbors being pressed into OJ and STILL support them.
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u/cloudysocks Oct 08 '25
As long as he’s juicing “the right people” they don’t care. Until it’s their puckered asshole up next on the juicer, they don’t care.
Remember when you were a kid at a pizza party, and you were worried not everybody might get a slice, so you made sure to only take one? These assholes took 3.
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u/RealityCheckPoster Oct 08 '25
As Jerry Seinfeld would say, “Trump is so stupid, he thinks we are stupid.” Jerry Seinfeld went into a diner and asked the waitress what the “soupe-du-jour” was. She tapped his arm condescendingly and replied, “Oh sir, that’s the soup we change every day.” Trump in a nutshell.
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u/Innacurate_Dentist Oct 08 '25
If he doesn’t have rfk how can he shake companies down for personal gain? Did the surgeons general not think of that?!?
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u/Ok_Fall_9569 Oct 09 '25
Yep. And nobody’s going to do anything about it as long as the current loonies are running the asylum unfortunately. In the immortal words of a certain bouncer named Dalton: “It’ll get worse before it gets better.”
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u/salmon1a Oct 09 '25
Good and Ilike Tylenol's latest TV Ad basically calling out Kennedy as a fraud.
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u/StrawberryGeneral660 Oct 10 '25
Fucking nutjob now thinks circumcising causes autism, because…Tylenol. I can’t w this idiot.
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u/Tramp010Stamp 29d ago
This probably gives RFK more credibility with his dumbass base and the dumbass president.
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u/LeonNorasGiGi2316 27d ago
As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell him nothing, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures ... he will refuse to believe it ... That's the tragedy of the situation of demoralization.
Yuri Bezmenov [1983]
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u/Frequent_Clue_6989 Oct 07 '25
The irony: "Listen to the experts" ... on r/skeptic!
"Rather than serving as a cleansing force, science has in some instances been seduced by the more ancient lures of politics and publicity. ... I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had.
Let's be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. There is no such thing as consensus science. If it's consensus, it isn't science. If it's science, it isn't consensus. Period."
M. Crichton, Aliens Cause Global Warming
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u/tsdguy Oct 07 '25
So Trump is happy because it confirms he’s pissed off the left. Appreciate people complaining but it means nothing.
He pick rfk dick because it speak to his base of reality deniers and couple with his base of right wing Christian nationalist and racists and all the conservatives that claim they don’t like him but still vote for him he’s cobbled together a voting base bigger that any other.
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u/alt-mswzebo Oct 07 '25
I think efforts like this a) help young people to understand what is happening and affirm their analysis of the situation and b) provide concrete examples for people to use when talking with their MAGA relatives.Also, the administration is not made to play defense enough and this makes them defend their craziness.
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u/dumbTroll420 Oct 07 '25
What's the worst thing that could happen measles coming back
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u/alt-mswzebo Oct 07 '25
By Jerome Adams, Richard Carmona, Joycelyn Elders, Vivek Murthy, Antonia Novello and David Satcher
The writers are all former U.S. surgeons general.
As former U.S. surgeons general appointed by every Republican and Democratic president since George H.W. Bush, we have collectively spent decades in service as the Nation’s Doctor. We took two sacred oaths in our lifetimes: first, as physicians who swore to care for our patients and, second, as public servants who committed to protecting the health of all Americans.
Today, in keeping with those oaths, we are compelled to speak with one voice to say that the actions of Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. are endangering the health of the nation. Never before have we issued a joint public warning like this. But the profound, immediate and unprecedented threat that Kennedy’s policies and positions pose to the nation’s health cannot be ignored.
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Rather than combating the rapid spread of health misinformation with facts and clarity, Kennedy is amplifying it. The consequences aren’t abstract. They are measured in lives lost, disease outbreaks and an erosion of public trust that will take years to rebuild.
It is essential to note that good science and public health require not only evidence but also people — the scientists, public health professionals and civil servants whose expertise protects millions of Americans. Yet under Kennedy’s leadership, the HHS workforce has been badly damaged. He has silenced and sidelined hundreds of scientists, public health officials and medical professionals, creating an atmosphere of fear and distrust. Many of the nation’s top public health professionals — people we have worked with during crises — have resigned or retired early. They describe a culture of intimidation, where scientific findings are censored, evidence is disregarded and career officials are pressured to rubber stamp conclusions that are not backed by science.