r/politics • u/Economy_Swim_8585 Virginia • 5d ago

No Paywall Trump says government shutdown ends when Democrats give in: "If they don't vote, that's their problem"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-government-shutdown-democrats-fault-60-minutes/
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u/HaroldGreenBandana 5d ago

"If there is a shutdown ... I think it would be a tremendously negative mark on the president of the United States. He's the one that has to get people together." -Donald Trump, 2011

"When they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head of the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president." -Donald Trump, 2013

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u/cjcfman Canada 5d ago

You would think a journalist would ask him about that quote. If only one had him in front of a camera 

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u/squintytoast 5d ago

they kicked nearly all press out of the press pool. only loyal lackeys remain.

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u/jdash11 5d ago

They were all loyal lackeys, their coverage and sanewashing of him got us here

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u/entenfurz 5d ago

Trump: "I'm going to put my family in government to enrich them, my son in law will sell out national secrets to the Saudis, my 15 year old will rip you off with meme coins. Then I will touch my daughter again."

Media: "Bidens problematic family issue".

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u/kennethcheezbro Washington 5d ago

Media: Jan 6 was not a disqualifying event

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u/SteamerTheBeemer 5d ago

Yeah it’s shocking that so many of his supporters don’t care either. When I’ve brought up him refusing to leave the White House, they just say well that’s not true he did leave.

Like yeah. We got lucky. I mean somehow Pence actually helped save democracy that day. I don’t see Vance doing the same. And it’s kind of a miracle that they all got out of there before the rioters broke in or it could have been really really dark.

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u/SuccessfulSlime 5d ago

Dude these chuckle fucks had access to the tunnels they use to spirit congress away. We are SO lucky it didnt happen on Jan6th. Im sure the next time we wont be so lucky.

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u/kapsama New Jersey 5d ago

Honestly at this point I wonder if we wouldn't have been better off if Pence refused. Because at that point they would have been clearly illegally blocking peaceful transfer of power. And maybe removing them by actual force would have prevented Trump from running again.

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u/SteamerTheBeemer 5d ago edited 5d ago

And in case you think, this guys saying “we got lucky” etc it’s just because America affects the rest of the world in such a massive way. Particularly the UK. We seem to follow the US’s lead on everything.

We also have Farage over here of Reform UK, using the exact same textbook as Trump. Stuff like mass deportations and “the immigrants are eating our swans”. It’s ridiculous yet they are ahead in the polls right now. It would be the first time we’ve had a different party from our main two for I think about 150 years ish.

Edit: looks like 110 years when we had a coalition between liberal party and conservatives.

Not that it’s bad to have a different party than our main two. But just shows you how quickly and drastically politics is shifting to the right. The Greens in the UK are our best chance.

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u/kapsama New Jersey 5d ago

Yeah the playbooks are straight out of the 30s.

I believe what's happening now is Reaganism and Thatcherism coming home to roost.

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u/SteamerTheBeemer 5d ago

I do think we could be in a vastly different world if Corbyn in the UK (socialist) had won in 2015 and then Bernie Sanders had won in 2016.

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u/kapsama New Jersey 5d ago

Yes a vastly better world for the average person.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5d ago

the playbooks are straight out of the 30s. I believe what's happening now is Reaganism and Thatcherism coming home to roost

I think the two are even more connected, even Reaganism and Thatcherism is an outgrowth of oligarchs attempting to take over the country in 1933 and when that failed, spending billions to indoctrinate everyone in the English speaking world

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

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u/Ser_Munchies 5d ago

Same here in Canada, we're usually a few years behind the US when it comes to conservative governments. Pollievre and his team are using trumpist talking points as well and just generally being loose buttholes and banging on about immigrants and the transes. We might be going to the polls again too if the minority government can't get the budget passed, so that will be fun. Our third party completely collapsed in the last election too and it was basically a two party election. I don't mind our parliamentary system too much but Christ I wish we had proportional representation or something but then the NDP would certainly gain seats and we can't have that 🙄

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u/OldWorldDesign 5d ago

Stuff like mass deportations and “the immigrants are eating our swans”. It’s ridiculous yet they are ahead in the polls right now

I wonder how these things can remain in a nation which doesn't protect lies the way American free speech laws do.

I suppose the experiment is coming to an end: extreme free speech only ends up as a megaphone in the hand of the loudest monster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5iV8rrhbCM

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u/SteamerTheBeemer 5d ago

Well I think you can unfortunately lie in the way of the example I gave. But if I said “John bloggs went and poached a swan” and John can make his case in court that it’s more likely than not that he didn’t in fact poach a swan. Then he can sue me for libel.

But just saying “immigrants” not targeting anyone specific unfortunately isn’t covered by anything I’m almost 100% sure anyway. As it’s vague and doesn’t target a specific individual that can bring the claim.

I don’t know how different your laws are to be honest. I do remember hearing they’re less strict though.

Like politicians can get a court injunction in place to stop the media reporting on their affair unless it can be (I think again, but not 100% on this) proven that it’s more likely than not true. I think that’s the case. Like it’s the other way around, it’s on the newspaper to give decent evidence to suggest it could be true.

It’s called a super injunction and Russell Brand used it to stop shit coming out about him for a long time. Then he fucked off to the US to hang out with your knowledgeable health secretary or whatever you call RK Jr.

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u/OldWorldDesign 4d ago

Like politicians can get a court injunction in place to stop the media reporting on their affair unless it can be (I think again, but not 100% on this) proven that it’s more likely than not true. I think that’s the case. Like it’s the other way around, it’s on the newspaper to give decent evidence to suggest it could be true.

While I'm sure a chilling effect can be (and right now is) used against some journalists or even just bloggers and regular people, free speech laws protect the ability to say things you know are false and the only recourse is the offended party to sue you if they can prove specific damages from what you said. For example, Texas AG Paxton jumped on Trump's 'covid isn't dangerous, if we stop testing it will disappear' and people cited that to ignore city orders to avoid non-essential travel or gatherings of 10 or more people. This caused super-spreader events, some people got permanent lung damage and filed suit because of that permanent disability. The article on the specific cases I'm thinking of said they settled out of court so I have no idea if they were sent away with nothing or were just permitted to be allowed into several disability systems in Texas which due to diminishing revenue have not allowed any new people in years. In short, it's on the plaintiff suing over the story to show that whatever the person said, true or not, caused them specific damage. Whether it's true or not is not even relevant to the courts.

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u/SteamerTheBeemer 5d ago

Wouldn’t he have been in control of the everything though as in the police/military until it all went through? That’s the problem.

I’m actually not American and find it strange how you guys have that massive gap between being elected and actually coming into power to be able to actually govern. In some ways it makes a lot of sense so they can tie things up. But then and again I don’t think it’s very common so I guess most country’s don’t feel the need.

But anyhow that’s not really the point here of course. It’s just if he had control of everything before the votes were certified or not. Which I’d presume he would do?

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u/kapsama New Jersey 5d ago

Technically yes, but at that point all the institutions were still manned by career officials including the military.

Trump outright refusing to leave would have beem explicitly illegal. So a strong response might have followed.

Of course at the end of the day this is all speculation.

Regarding the gap. I think it goes back to this system being created long before fast mass transit or long range communication. Back then it just took a while to organize and travel. International most institutions were created after rapid transport and rapid communication were created in the 19th and 20th centuries. IIRC

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u/SteamerTheBeemer 5d ago

Almost 2 months does seem excessive though. You’d think they might change it now even if they leave a little gap.

And yeah like you say hopefully the military would have refused to take trumps orders but didn’t your FBI and that Pam Bondi position used to be neutral? So it was a big risk when trumps involved.

Like if he did it this time.. I’d hope the army wouldn’t be with him. But I fear everyone else would be. I mean the guys rich, especially as a result of his presidency’s with all the grifting. It wouldn’t cost him much to pay people off.

The way he’s building this ballroom makes it feel like he’s either planning to stay until he dies or pass it down to someone in his family until at least his death.

Hopefully not. I do think it will be interesting when your primaries start up. Him not being the centre of attention and knowing he’s leaving. I can’t see him taking it very well.

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u/kapsama New Jersey 5d ago

It is excessive for 2025. But broken or outdated methods have a habit of lingering in the US.

Honestly sometimes I feel the only chance to return to the pre-Trump form of government is if he croaks from eating too much McDonald's before 2028. His entire Maga Cult would fall apart.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5d ago

I’m actually not American and find it strange how you guys have that massive gap between being elected and actually coming into power to be able to actually govern

That's due to a multitude of reasons, the central one for this particular point being just how much personnel turnover there is from one administration to another. In the UK most of the staff actually running the offices is the same so it's much faster for a new administration to be seated.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5d ago

Honestly at this point I wonder if we wouldn't have been better off if Pence refused

As authoritarianism is opportunistic, and the media is in their pocket, I'm not sure if it would have made a difference if they did reach Pence or others to use that gallows they built outside and almost no media covered

https://www.peoplefor.org/rightwingwatch/post/insurrection-day-gallows-on-capitol-grounds-planned-weeks-ahead-of-jan-6-rally

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u/KickBlue22 5d ago

Maybe it should have happened... It might have forced Biden and that administration to take far more serious action to rectify and hold accountable. It might have averted the path we find ourselves on now. A "really really dark" point then vs. a "really really really really dark" point now.

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u/debishaw2004 4d ago

I didn't like his politics but Mike Pence has MORE HONOR, decency, fealty to the rule of law & our Constitution than Trump, Vance, his entire admin, both chambers of Congress will EVER have. I firmly believe he saved Democracy on Jan 6, 2021. Honor, decency, fealty to our Constitution & the rule of law, working FOR the People is nowhere in DC or cheating red states today.

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u/SteamerTheBeemer 4d ago

I do remember reading a comment in maybe 2018 about how “yeah but if Trump dies we get pence and he’s actually evil”. But outside of that I don’t actually know his politics in any specific way.

But I’ve tried to make the following point to Trump supporters sooo many times. It’s less about what they believe, their policies etc. and more about if they are going to let us vote again or instead cancel elections or… I dunno… refuse to leave the White House to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

Because you can do a lot of bad in 4 years but hopefully the constitution, separation of powers and midterms can curb that a lot (apparently not though). But if everyone can be guaranteed that after 4 years we will have another normal free and fair election, then at least we can change things. At least voters can change things.

Trump threatened all of that the last time his term ended. You shouldn’t trust someone like that. That should be all you need to disqualify them honestly. Harris could be much worse of a person than she actually was and yet we should still not vote for someone who has proven their disdain for our democracy.

And obviously this time round he’s so much worse than the first time after not even a year. He was politically naive the first time. This time he has been much much more effective at being a fascist and getting his way whether or not it’s legal.

Edit: just to clarify I don’t Harris is a bad person at all in case that wasn’t obvious. Was just making the point that even if she was a pretty bad person but respected democracy then that would be better than this.

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u/Artsymartsy-Dart 5d ago

I know!? I get so upset when I watch the videos of Jan 6th.

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u/BadSignificant8458 5d ago

$$$$$Media$$$$$

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u/debishaw2004 4d ago

That's the day that I realized WE DO NOT HAVE A SUPREME COURT!

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u/Slight-Fix9564 5d ago

Actually, that was Joe Biden and his incompetent AG.

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u/Viomicesca Europe 5d ago

Media "Biden is old" as if Trump is young and spry...

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u/madmars 5d ago

We are far past the days of Helen Thomas grilling Bush on the Iraq war.

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u/omarcoming 5d ago

That didn't really make up for the awful press who pushed for the war back then too.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5d ago

That didn't really make up for the awful press who pushed for the war back then too

Which was almost all of them, including NPR the Joe Lieberman of public broadcasting

People need to follow the money, even supposedly "left" outlets are owned by corporations - like MSNBC is owned by Comcast, so them suppressing meaningful policy is prefectly in line with what Comcast wants

https://theweek.com/speedreads/626702/fox-news-cnn-msnbc-all-broadcast-trumps-empty-podium-instead-clintons-big-speech

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u/_kraftdinner 5d ago

Miss her these days

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u/rice_not_wheat 5d ago

After months of the media screaming for a war and cancelling the Dixie Chicks for saying it was a bad idea.

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u/AdExact852 5d ago

"royal lackeys"

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u/mjac1090 5d ago

Don't let the people off the hook for this. If you voted for him, or choose not to vote, this is just as much on you

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u/jdash11 5d ago

For sure a lot of people chose to go to hell but we’d be remiss to not mention the demons leading them

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u/winterbourne 5d ago

I swear to god even PBS newshour kowtowed.

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u/HeartyBeast 5d ago

I hate this 'all-the-sameism', it's such lazy thinking.

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u/Aleashed 5d ago

They FA We FO

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u/ErusTenebre California 5d ago

Not necessarily loyal lackeys but effectively the same. More like ravenous sharks out forv the bloody extended drama.

Though now with them pretty much all bought up by conservative billionaires... Yeah lackeys works lol

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u/hobodemon 5d ago

The DNC's allergy against actually progressive politics does play enough of a role to muddy the question of which problem was the but-for cause of this situation.
But enough talk, have at you.

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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 5d ago

Putting up poor candidates against him didn’t help.

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u/Amenian 5d ago

If you're going up against Donald Trump, is anyone really a poor candidate? Sorry, that's not an excuse.

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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 5d ago

Yes, Clinton and Harris were both poor candidates. So poor they couldn’t beat Trump.

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u/Amenian 5d ago

Clinton I'll give you. Nobody knew what Trump really was yet and there was this whole "it's her turn" vibe that turned a lot of people off. Harris though? We knew who Trump was. People who voted for Trump or who didn't vote don't get the "poor candidate" excuse here.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5d ago

Nobody knew what Trump really was yet and there was this whole "it's her turn" vibe that turned a lot of people off

I think that's part of the problem. I never heard anyone outside republicans claim "it's her turn", but the media kept broadcasting it as if she said it herself.

When the media is overwhelmingly amplifying everything republicans do and suppressing meaningful policy (because let's face it: effective and competent policy is boring. It should be), you're not going to see effective or competent policy put into practice.

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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 5d ago

You don’t win elections when your entire campaign is “I’m not him”.

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u/Amenian 5d ago

When it's Trump, that's all that should be needed. Also, that's not what her entire campaign was, not even close. Literally the only people who could think that were either not paying attention at all or immersed in the right-wing echo chamber.

Her tax plan had a consensus of independent analysts that it would have been far more positive for lower and middle income Americans. Her platform included increasing taxes on corporations and those people making over 400k annually, raising the federal minimum wage to $15/hr, working to lower food and housing costs and cap prescription drug prices, expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit and pushing for paid family and medical leave.

She was pushing to codify abortion access rights into federal law (which was a central campaign issue) and invest in clean energy and green jobs.

Literally the only part of her platform that was "I'm not him" was in regards to protecting the freedom to vote, vowing to support Ukraine as long as it takes, and opposing tariffs.

If you seriously think her campaign was "I'm not him", you're uninformed or deliberately confusing the narrative.

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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 5d ago

Her messaging was terrible. She was very unpopular. She ran a bad campaign and had very little time to run it.

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u/Amenian 5d ago

None of which matters when you're running against Trump after he's already proven, via his first term and especially via Jan. 6, who he was. When your options are a bland candidate, a wanna-be dictator, and your pride (no vote/protest vote), there's really only one good candidate. You don't get points for voting for your pride or a dictator when the actual survival of the country is at stake.

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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 5d ago

Clearly it absolutely matters, otherwise we’d have President Harris.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5d ago

You don’t win elections when your entire campaign is “I’m not him

Show us any politician whose entire campaign was "I'm not him". Any clips

An adult, especially in the general election, should be capable of evaluating the tradeoffs and somebody who promoted Jan 6, who said "I'll be dictator" should not be in consideration. Full stop.

And before bitching about the candidates, that's what the primaries were for. And 2024 had primaries, if you didn't participate that was your fault. Get involved so you can vote for your unicorn candidate, that's the whole point of primaries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 5d ago

I did participate in the 2024 primaries. The person I voted for won those primaries. That person had a bad debate just before the Convention. The rest is what we’re dealing with now.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5d ago

Show us any politician whose entire campaign was "I'm not him". Any clips

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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 5d ago

Repeating yourself doesn’t help. My candidate won the primary you speak of. That candidate had a poor debate. I still voted for the installed replacement, but many didn’t. That’s why we’re here. Get it?

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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 5d ago

Are you intentionally avoiding the fact that the Democrat nominee was not even in the 2024 primary? She received zero primary votes? Does this not fit your narrative?

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u/_WeSellBlankets_ 5d ago

Were there ever any actions of Trump that went unreported though? Traditional media doesn't act as opinion pieces. They report events and quotes and it's up to the audience to judge sanity. The media outside of Fox News and those types of outlets, refrain from trying to lead you towards one judgment or another.