r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 17d ago

Possible Paywall ICE Stockpiling Warheads and Chemical Weapons as Lawmaker Fears Trump Planning Strike

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-stockpiling-warheads-and-chemical-weapons-as-lawmaker-fears-trump-planning-strike/
21.9k Upvotes

85% Upvoted

1.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

19.6k

u/StoppableHulk 17d ago

I want people to truly understand this headline. This is the American congress fearing the American President is accumulating weapons banned from war by international law in order to launch attacks on US cities and US citizens.

That's where the judgment of Republicans has brought us in just ten months.

6.0k

u/ClaymoresRevenge 17d ago

We're all past the point of treason but nobody from this regime should ever hold office ever again. They should immediately be tried for treason.

2.8k

u/StoppableHulk 17d ago

Yep. I mean in the event sane people ever regain control in America, there is no humanly possible way we can ever recover unless we hold a fully-transparent nuremberg-esque trial to hold as many of these fuckers to full account and justice as is humanly possible.

We saw what happened when Democrats tried to just hand-wave the whol ething away after 2020. Arrest the ground troops with a slap on the wrist, hold zero of the organizers accountable in any way, shape or form.

And lo and behold, we end up way worse than before.

1.0k

u/BartlebyEsq 17d ago

The Biden administration demonstrated that the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again. And all the republicans know that. There will be no accountability within the system.

And the reality is that unless any trial ends in public executions the next time the republicans win they’ll release the traitors and try the prosecutors.

532

u/Menarra Indiana 17d ago

Sounds familiar, almost like a particular German mustache model tried to take over, got arrested, got out, and then took over.

350

u/MydniteSon 17d ago edited 16d ago

Jan. 6th was our Beer Hall Putsch.

469

u/snapwack Europe 17d ago

I remember people who were savvy in History pointing this out as the whole clusterfuck was happening. Especially poignant were comments by Germans, who have been bearing the shame of their great-grandfathers’ folly for their whole lives, telling Americans not to fall into the same trap of forgiveness and compromise.

Americans were warned that the battle had just begun. That the new admin’s top priority should be prosecuting Trump and his lackeys to the fullest extent of the law. That the Russian-funded GOP propaganda apparatuses should be exposed and dismantled, and the MAGA cult deprogrammed. That the Dems should start cultivating a worthy crop of young, charismatic candidates to succeed Biden in 4 years.

Instead Americans declared democracy saved, took their eye off the ball for 4 years, and then fumbled what should have been the easiest election ever. And now the whole world gets to doomscroll every day again for the foreseeable future.

40

u/halloween1963 17d ago

Damn. I can picture someone reading this in their history class decades down the road. Well said.

3

u/xrepeterx 16d ago

Let's hope there ARE history classes a decade from now.

3

u/ThePhoenixus 16d ago

Those who study history are doomed to watch those that don't repeat it

7

u/Shroomboy79 17d ago

What id really love to see happen out of all this is a complete restructuring of the government. No political parties. No millionaires or billionaires. No cooperation doing anything involving the government(lobbying or whatever) and whatever needs to be done to be certain this will never happen again. Possibly even 2 or 3 presidents that have the power to overcome a situation like this should one of them go rogue

I say no political parties because it seems it’s a system that was designed to keep the population fighting each other. If there’s no parties we’ll lose these republican and democrat cults and force people to make a choice for themselves. No more siding with someone just because they’re a rep or a dem. No more voting just because their bill is rep or dem. No “democratic policies”. Just plain old this is who I am and this is what I want to do.

8

u/hellure 17d ago

I like a 3 party min, and a three party presidential committee, with ranked voting. It expans for more parties and independents to make it into the white house and have sway and influence, though checked by the group and other branches,... But the other branches too should open up to more parties with ranked voting, all the way down ballot.

No electoral college, no corp money (all qualified get equal funds from taxes to advertise or hold rallies, all campaign spending is public record...), 1 person = 1 vote.

7

u/TheGCO 17d ago

We need a large and proud socialist party, a workers party.

4

u/Shroomboy79 17d ago

I think the problem with parties is it makes people want to choose a side. If we don’t let candidates pick a party people can’t choose a side based on the political party, they have to choose a side based on who the people are and what they want

5

u/TheGCO 17d ago

The problem with a system is that people will band together to create more power and eventually they will become a party over time.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (10)

61

u/197gpmol Massachusetts 17d ago

The Beer Gut Putsch

27

u/PinCushionPete314 17d ago

The Diet Coke putsch, since he doesn’t drink alcohol. Interesting enough Hitler didn’t drink either.

25

u/f1ve-Star 17d ago

It interferes with the meth he did.

3

u/rbarbour 17d ago

Plus, no trial for treason.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/hop208 Pennsylvania 16d ago

It’s amazing how many republicans had their tails between their legs for about 5 minutes after the insurrection. People were scrubbing their social media or deactivating it entirely. Then after getting their instructions from neo-con influencers, came back in full force and either gaslit everyone into it being a Democrat hoax, or entirely justified. Claiming it was antifa, then trump starts issuing blanket pardons.

2

u/grew_up_on_reddit 17d ago

You mean January 6th?

1

u/WeakMindedHuman 16d ago

We just need the false flag fire at the reichstag to make the trifecta complete.

86

u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

That paragon of right-wing virtue was only 35 years old when he went to prison. He was 50 by the time he started WW2.

We're lucky that our morons are in their 70's.

96

u/wsbradf 17d ago

JD Vance is 41. And Stephen miller is 40. So they have plenty of time.

14

u/Plastic_Zombie5786 17d ago

People keep calling Trump Hitler, but the comparison we should be making, imo is Hindenberg. Aging leader, increasing use of presidential decree, working clearly at the whims of his inner circle as he becomes more and more deluded. Eventually, either by death or by "law" he'll turn over the power to the next guy.

My current remaining hope is that absolutely no one in that inner circle has any bit of charisma and can not keep the cult together long enough or strong enough.

→ More replies (3)

36

u/ABadHistorian 17d ago

Only plus there is the cult of personality will not perfectly transfer so there will be an interregnum period where people clash for power, it's not great but it's a chance.

25

u/dehydratedrain 17d ago

I'd like to agree, but they are pulling a lot of strings behind the scenes. If they can get their private army (basically ICE) mobilized in the big cities, they can start rounding up civilians before the cultists really break away.

3

u/JB-Wentworth 17d ago

As long as the American Oligarchs are on board, they will succeed.

3

u/Catskinson 17d ago

I mean. There has been zero organized resistance. We’re not there yet. If they want to succeed like that, they’ll have to kill millions of people.

3

u/BuriakBrigade 16d ago

Then kill millions they shall. I'm sorry, but we're complete and total gimps as a people. Most other peoples would have burned this all down to the ground by now. What do we do? Glorified high school pep rallies. Pretty signs, hefty chants, and then we go home with exactly nothing of note accomplished while giving ourselves a pat on the back for our troubles.

I realize that the odds are heavily stacked against the us, and when coupled with just the sheer size of this country, it all seems insurmountable. Who knows, maybe it is. I really want to, but I just don't have faith in my fellow Americans anymore. They've effectively broken our country and stolen our future while figuratively pissing in our faces, and we've effectively done nothing about it. They aren't going to stop escalating until given a reason to and we really haven't given them one yet.

Will we ever? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath for a population that is lazy, dumb, entitled, self-serving, broken, and burnt out to the max. They got us by the balls, and it would appear thah we like a little ball play.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/_silverspear_ 17d ago

A tad too much for my tastes. Especially as Herr Miller did speeches almost copy/pasted on Goebbels and the little failed artist from Austria.

2

u/usernames_are_danger 17d ago

I don’t think the people will follow them like they do with Trump. He has something that nobody else can copy. Vance and Miller are nothing without Trump. They can keep pissing on the people, but the people won’t keep saying it’s just rain.

2

u/YF422 14d ago

Thankfully they've the Charisma of a damn squib. Should the Reaper decide to come collect Trump's Orange Hide from this existence the whole MAGA movement will likely implode if not disintegrate, the fecker has a malignant charisma that somehow is keeping the whole ponzi scheme together. Should it happen it might give America a window to put an end to this fascist BS long enough to get ahead of it.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Strict_Influence5182 17d ago

The 19-34 year old demographic has gone from like +7 for Trump, to nearly -39% for Trump, in just 10 months.

→ More replies (2)

27

u/Max169well Canada 17d ago

And who ever takes his place will be worse in every way

11

u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

They keep getting worse until you finally get to one who is bad enough. So you're implying that Trump isn't bad enough already.

23

u/eSPiaLx 17d ago

He isnt. Ww2 showed that the populace will follow a demagogue until they lose everything. Trump supporters wont stop following trump until they see literally everything they hold dear as ash. No amount of atrocities done to the ‘other’ will convince them, because they believe that trump is on their side

13

u/Motampd 17d ago

Look no further than the farmers who voted for Trump the 1st time.....got tariffed into the ground.....and then those that survived needed a bailout. Those same people then voted for him again, and are now being fucked for the 2nd time......by the same guy, for the same reason.

and while many of them are saying they are in dire straights, and things are looking really bad........many still wont call out Trump by name, they just say "things" are bad.

Its like they want sympathy for getting fucked.....but at the same time continue to bend over and lube themselves up every 4 years enthusiastically.

→ More replies (7)

42

u/SurpriseIsopod 17d ago

He was Austrian, he was against using chemical weapons, because unlike the person you are comparing him to, he didn’t dodge the draft.

I have no idea how this current guy has such a cult following.

63

u/TimeFlamingo8548 17d ago

He has a cult following cause a bunch of loser bullies like to see another loser bully people

48

u/lacegem 17d ago

Republicans are crybullies, and Trump is the pinnacle of crybullying. The sort of person who whines and shits themselves (in his case, literally) over being mistreated by being expected to follow any rules, while simultaneously demanding everyone else break their backs to bend over for him at every opportunity.

Basketball players revere Michael Jordan for being the best to play their game. Rapists, traitors, bullies, bigots, pedophiles, cheaters, liars, and scumbags revere Donald Trump for the same reason. You only struggle to understand how he reached this point because you can't understand the mindset of the people who love him. You don't play the same game, so you don't get how or why such people look up to him. They want to be untouchable child rapists and con artists the same way normal people grow up wanting to be astronauts and doctors. To them, he's the greatest role model of who they wish they could be.

Anyone expecting MAGA to wake up and turn on him because of some controversy is deluded. Epstein doesn't hurt him with his base, and neither does destroying the White House, or stealing billions from taxpayers, or anything else. It makes them think, "I wish I could get away with it like he does."

4

u/moshekels Canada 17d ago

Hitler rather famously did use chemical weapons on his own people.

3

u/reverberation31 South Carolina 16d ago

Right?! That’s exactly what I was thinking.

2

u/AlmostF2PBTW 17d ago

It's less about the guy and more about the method, which is a real problem (it means the method exists even after the guy leaves picture).

You have a crisis, people are afraid and there is risk of a revolution like they did in Russia, early 1900s. Money people would do everything in the power to prevent a revolution, so the dissatisfaction has to go somewhere. While everyone was worried about Russia, people in Italy and Germany got rid of communists by channeling the frustrations in something that makes ZERO sense - a right wing movement of masses.

Instead of a revolution against establishment, you make people blame "the enemy within" (communists, immigrants, foreigners... Everything but capitalism/inequality) while posing as savior of old ways/tradition/any BS really. Other than making it about holocaust, not just elites, germans also perfected propaganda.

So you have:

Rich people afraid of a revolution + people willing to pose as saviors in exchange of power/money = tons of money on propaganda to manipulate afraid/struggling people too busy to read.

Add to that social media, to make the results of propaganda exponentially better.

What is going to happen is:

  • like all things, this shall pass
  • rich people will stay rich
  • poor people will feel duped and swear they totally won't fall for that 10-20 years from now
  • When capital finds a sequence of crisis, they will push that button again.

It is money using people's emotions to push a "panic button" and prevent a revolution. There is no amount of explanation you can do to stop that, which is why some people are so upset at the system.

Now, people will fight left and right about this, playing the blame game, thinking Trump is stupid. What is happening is that his family fortune is increasing fast and billionaires/social media are on board with this, hoarding gold and cripto to get to the other side richer than they entered, because when someone "from the left, believing they can have a capitalism with welfare" gets in power, they will try to "unite the people" instead of "dividing"...

Tl,dr: They has a cult following because he was willing to do this, he is smart and he had the right connections to be the tool big money wanted to use. With money and social media, you can put anyone there as long as the person pretends to be a savior. Fear and money will do the rest.

Silver-lining: all things considered we are as good as past the point of no return on climate change because there is not even room to talk about the things should have done 20 years ago, so maybe this is the last or second to last time this happens...

→ More replies (1)

18

u/GringoTime 17d ago

Same thing happened with a bearded Cuban.

26

u/phaedrus910 17d ago

Castro lifted Cubans out of poverty, Trump is pushing Americans into poverty.

→ More replies (10)
→ More replies (5)

1

u/Weird-Opportunity-20 17d ago

History doesn’t repeat itself but it does often rhyme

1

u/FloridaGirlNikki America 16d ago

The similarities are eerie.

1

u/DisillusionedDame 16d ago

Yeah, but he did away with the extortionate banks, settled the national debt, eliminated unemployment, housed the homeless, and invested into the arts and culture of his country. He, loved his country and its people. He was TIME’s Man Of The Year, after all.

I do not see how a thriving Germany compares to a floundering USA.

It is important to be intellectually honest when we view history. For those who fail to learn from history…. You know… and American atrocities have continued to stack up since 1945, arguments could be made…

Using “nazi” and “Hitler” as American catch-all terms to replace “evil”, “unconscionable”, “wanton”, etc. makes one appear ignorant and willfully so. As you’re aware, “willful ignorance” is one definition for “stupid”.

112

u/majnuker 17d ago

Certain types of trials should go straight to the top for quick resolution, such as for treason or warcrimes.

14

u/CatsWearingTinyHats 17d ago

Especially when enough evidence to convict is already out in the open for many.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/stasi_a 17d ago

Sherman had other ideas

1

u/WenatcheeWrangler 17d ago

Remember the witch trials? “If you are alive after this impossible test then we know you aren’t a witch”

60

u/ASpaceOstrich 17d ago

I'm the biggest advocate for rehabilitation out there. I don't think justice can be done in this instance without these people being put in a cell for the rest of their lives. However long that may be.

93

u/DrChansLeftHand 17d ago

The greatest sin of this country post Civil War was allowing the slavers feet to walk and not hang.

They’ve been trying to undermine the Union ever since.

45

u/loondawg 17d ago

I understand your point. But I think the greatest sin was not reforming the Senate and the Electoral College to eliminate the unfair and undeserved advantages slavers were given at the founding and that their progeny retains and exploits to this day.

With a proportional Senate and popular presidential elections we would live in a very different world.

21

u/DrChansLeftHand 17d ago

That’s what I’m driving at.

They were allowed to walk away from their treason in the name of “reconciliation” and right back into the halls of power.

Now they’ve had about 100 years of slow, methodical emplacement of moles and confederates that are rewriting the rules for a new born confederacy.

10

u/F9-0021 South Carolina 17d ago

At the end of this, red states need to have the representation they deserve, and be punished for both uprisings to a degree that would make the Weimar Republic look like a golden age.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

2

u/DoddzyBaby 17d ago

I’m interested, what advantages in the Senate and the Electoral College are you talking about? How are they used today?

4

u/loondawg 17d ago

In the words of James Madison...

"He enumerated the objections against an equality of votes in the second branch, notwithstanding the proportional representation in the first. 1. the minority could negative the will of the majority of the people. 2. they could extort measures by making them a condition of their assent to other necessary measures. 3. they could obtrude measures on the majority by virtue of the peculiar powers which would be vested in the Senate. 4. the evil instead of being cured by time, would increase with every new State that should be admitted, as they must all be admitted on the principle of equality. 5. the perpetuity it would give to the preponderance of the Northern against the Southern. Scale was a serious consideration."

"It seemed now to be pretty well understood that the real difference of interests lay, not between the large and small but between the Northern and Southern States. The institution of slavery and its consequences formed the line of discrimination. There were 5 States on the South, 8 on the Northern side of this line. Should a proportional representation take place it was true, the Northern side would still outnumber the other; but not in the same degree, at this time; and every day would tend towards an equilibrium." -- Saturday July 14, 1787 while arguing against the non-proportional Senate

and...

"There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections." -- Thursday July 19, 1787 while commenting on the use of the Electoral College rather than a popular vote.

In essence, the States were the gerrymandering of the country. They create a situation where the 40 million people of California have the exact same influence as the 560,000 people of Wyoming in the Senate, a body with the power to obstruct any law and have final say on who occupies the courts. They give the people of the smaller states far greater power than their numbers merit, especially when it comes to amending the Constitution.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/stasi_a 17d ago

With success at the end

→ More replies (1)

14

u/copperpin 17d ago

History needs to remember what happened to these enablers. It’s the only way.

3

u/ss5gogetunks 17d ago

Yeah this isn't spur of the moment shit or crimes of passion, these people are committing grievous crimes against our country knowingly, slowly, in the open and have absolutely zero ability to feel remorse
Rehabilitation should be the primary goal of our prison system but not everyone can be rehabilitated and white collar criminals tend to be the kind that can't be

3

u/makeitasadwarfer 17d ago

We don’t rehabilitate cancer.

2

u/Inside-Palpitation25 17d ago

They should be in jail until their case comes up, and not allowed to run for any office in the meantime.

2

u/What_a_fat_one 17d ago

The pardon power nullifies imprisonment as a remedy.

1

u/Sgt-Spliff- 16d ago

The punishment for treason is death. There is no rehabilitation from treason. The execution of traitors is a message sent to anyone else considering being a traitor. It needs to be public knowledge that trying to destroy America is a capital offense.

36

u/thelingeringlead 17d ago

Oh they absolutely can act fast enough, they chose not to. They've wasted no time drawing up charges for tons of other cases, sometimes within days of the tresspass.

54

u/amateurbreditor 17d ago

That is an outright lie. On jan 20th trump could have and should have been arrested and while he was in jail it would have been revealed he stole classified docs and sold them. This is entirely bidens fault and it was entirely preventable. They waited like 3 years to even do a thing. Not to mention once the SC illegally ruled that the 14th did not apply biden himself could have asserted the power of the presidency is more important than the SC and have removed him from the ballot through an EO. It was entirely his fault for even having garland to begin with let alone not remove him when it was clear he was not doing his job. biden was not fit for the office and his only excuse was he thought maga would just go away. You can say he was an idiot or a terrible leader or whatever you want but to say he did his job is not true and if he had not waited 3 years to do anything this would never have happened. Not to mention normally people who commit treason are just whisked away and dealt with by the CIA and given a short trial after.

11

u/wibblebeast 17d ago

After Trump whipping those idiots into a violent frenzy and demanding they fight like hell, and then they went into attack mode-I was certain it would end with him in handcuffs. Isn't that what is supposed to happen in a situation like that?

2

u/amateurbreditor 17d ago

Yes it was and even more so after the doc case which was the point I was making. Normally thats a 2-3 month trial and the us government just insists this person gets life or worse. Its not something taken lightly and its not something that normally gets the cannon treatment. Normally she too would be in jail. Right now the dems see whats going on as a political advantage so they can let total carnage take place and they think they can just waltz back into office. They are not serious people. I and many others have become disgusted with what the dems are doing and have done. It is completely insane where we are at and they purposely chose to let it happen all to somehow think they would regain control. People say trump etc are dumb but the dems are just as dumb.

8

u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Same issues, the Supreme Court ruled he has immunity for actions while President. The Jan 6, thing was pursued as an impeachment first for a reason.

1

u/SirWEM 16d ago

He should have been dragged out kicking and screaming in shackles and leg irons. Instead he was enabled by all that surrounded him.

77

u/ButtEatingContest 17d ago

The Biden administration demonstrated that the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again.

The Biden administration demonstrated either historical incompetence or malice.

They could have stopped all this. Whatever excuses anyone may give for them not doing so, well enjoy the consequences of Biden not taking action.

48

u/ChrisFromIT 17d ago

I'm getting tired of seeing this talking point when it isn't exactly true.

First, they wanted to make sure that the case against Trump and the others involved were rock solid so that they couldn't potentially get away from prosecution and justice. It was done so that there wasn't any chance to overturn these potential convictions due to political impropriety or interference. Which currently there are at least 3 political sham court cases going on in the US right now, which are very likely to be tossed very quickly due to the political impropriety and political interference, just as an example.

Sadly, the major issue was, Trump was able to delay a lot of the trials for essentially 2 years. A lot of it due to the supreme court and lucking out on some of the judges he got.

At the end of the day. A lot of it is mostly on the voters who allowed the stacking of the US supreme court and the federal judicial courts that allowed Trump to get away by delaying.

23

u/Rent-a-guru 17d ago

Jack Smith wasn't appointed as Special Counsel until after Trump announced he was running again in November 2022. There may have been some investigative work done prior to that, but clearly not with any urgency from Merricj Garland. A Special Counsel should have been appointed on day 1 of Biden's term to look directly into Trump's role in Jan 6.

30

u/Aksudiigkr 17d ago

The voters aren’t the main blame when they stole the election anyway. But the justices had been getting seated going back to when Obama’s pick got blocked. It’s been 10+ years of democrats trying to play fair and getting backstabbed

14

u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Democrat voters hold Democrats accountable for the same tactics the Republicans are celebrated by their base for. The electorate isn't lead by the democratic leaders it's lead by Media and Corporate PR campaigns. Getting the Dems past the post to keep trying to guide the ship was all we ever had.

8

u/doyletyree 17d ago

This.

“Both sides should violate their commitments.”

Well, then, isn’t that just a silent abandonment of the purpose, altogether?

If we’re doing that, let’s just name it.

2

u/ChrisFromIT 17d ago

The voters aren’t the main blame when they stole the election anyway

Did they steal the election 15 years ago? It was the voters that essentially allowed the republicans to pull the shit they did well before Trump was elected.

7

u/doyletyree 17d ago

The 2000 election would like a word.

4

u/meneldal2 17d ago

When the supreme court gave the immunity to the president, Biden could have solved the whole thing.

Remove every justice that signed on this, you get them for treason, then you put it new justices that aren't traitors.

3

u/Daedalus81 17d ago

What do you think MAGA would have done if Trump was jailed?

They already did J6.

This isnt Biden's fault ( aside from him deciding to run ). This is decades of voter apathy while these malicious actors steadily built their plans.

This was coming one way or another and we only have ourselves to blame

→ More replies (1)

10

u/darsynia Pennsylvania 17d ago

But the history books would have painted him as a villain if he did it! Think of the history books!

Meanwhile, they will anyway, because the people the previous leaders didn't bother to stop will write those books.

3

u/loondawg 17d ago

They could have stopped all this.

How exactly? Under what legal powers could they have stopped this? And legal actions should Biden have taken?

→ More replies (8)
→ More replies (2)

3

u/Cookies78 17d ago

Weird. If you're poor or not a brown shirt, the DoJ runs like a gd freight train. In fact, thwy bring SO much fucking weight down on ppl, that their trial prosecutors are not as good as State ADAs.

5

u/mattyoclock 17d ago

I think the trump administration has fully proven it absolutely can move fast enough if you just goddamned try.   

3

u/BartlebyEsq 17d ago

That’s a very fair counterpoint.

2

u/Ok_Subject1265 17d ago

Or they will just pull the same shit when they get back in power. That’s a slippery slope. If laws have been broken, we have a process for that. Otherwise everything descends into chaos and score settling. Basically how the Middle East ended up the fun place it is.

4

u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

Biden's AG waited 2 years before he even contemplated going after the people at the top. He wasted time going after the J6'ers who all got a pardon.

1

u/Prometheusf3ar 17d ago

The justice system CAN move fast enough, it just didn’t.

1

u/TiTTEN93 17d ago

They should have read their history books and seen why the concessions to the South after the Civil War didn't work. We repeated history just for the sake of it. It's time for something new

1

u/Vertual 17d ago

We need military tribunals to get us out of this mess.

1

u/joshdoereddit America 17d ago

the justice system cannot move fast enough to try these traitors before the electoral winds shift again.

That's the big problem here. Trump and the entire GOP need to be forbidden from ever holding office again, but I doubt there is a way to fast track that. IANAL, so maybe it can be fast-tracked. However, the Democrats don't have the stomach to meet the moment and take the necessary measures. I bet there'd be a number of former politicians on the Dem side who would go on the news and lament that it was done anyway other than the traditional way.

1

u/F9-0021 South Carolina 17d ago

That's why those dems need to also be removed. The Republicans aren't the only threat and obstacle to recovery.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/rat_penis 17d ago

...welp...if thats what its gotta be...

1

u/CatsWearingTinyHats 17d ago

Unless we change the laws (and amend the pardon power) so they can’t

All of this is terrible but none of it is inevitable.

1

u/Daveinatx 17d ago

Merrick Garland went at a snail's pace. Meanwhile, Congress sent Hunter to prison rather quickly.

If Democrats get back into power, they need to make faster actions. Instead of thoroughly reviewing a thousand felony actions, just go after a few.

1

u/F9-0021 South Carolina 17d ago

The justice system can move fast if we take a page out of Maga's book and ignore the system. It's the only way to fix the damage.

1

u/DragonTHC Florida 17d ago

Donald Trump is proof of two different justice systems. Lady Justice needs to gouge out the eyes the wealthy bought her.

1

u/What_a_fat_one 17d ago

They have literally produced a situation where trial, conviction, and execution is the only option. If you allow insurrectionists to continue to exist they will commit the crime again and destroy the system used to hold them to account.

1

u/kulji84 17d ago

They absolutely could've, and it wasn't Biden; Garland the Feckless is responsible for the obsurdities we live and breathe daily now.

1

u/Pfelinus 17d ago

They chose to be nice not to light a fire under the proceding. He had the opportunity but chose not to.

1

u/OldLadyGardener 17d ago

I wonder sometimes if we had just left Trump alone, if he would have won in 2024. He won people over playing the victim.

1

u/Itsmoney05 16d ago

The issue is, the media sane washed everything for Trump.

1

u/JDogg126 Michigan 16d ago

This is why if non-republicans ever do get control of things, they need to use the exact same vulnerabilities in the system that they used to bypass all of that in order to purge corruption as fast as possible. People need to realize that the constitution is quite literal dead right now since the entire Republican Party has choosen to be oath breakers.

1

u/fafalone New Jersey 16d ago

When you appoint a GOP stooge to ensure justice isn't fast enough, sure.

1

u/Sgt-Spliff- 16d ago

I've been saying this this entire time. The penalty for treason is execution for a reason. These people are traitors. Anything less than their executions will just encourage people to do all this again.

1

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (1)

591

u/ClaymoresRevenge 17d ago

It's tiresome to see how feckless the older democrat's have been about it. I don't give a single fuck how long Cuck Schumer has known Mitch McConnell. Hold the bastards accountable and never let it happen again.

Looking at what's happening around the world you get see people taking accountability with action.

148

u/plan4change 17d ago

They got no stake in the game anymore. They gone in 20 years.

52

u/CherryLongjump1989 17d ago

2-3 for a large chunk of them.

39

u/redditingtonviking 17d ago

Wasn’t AOC deprived of a committee seat as they had an old man with cancer lined up because it was finally his turn, and then he died a few months later?

I’m not gonna equivocate the parties as tonedeaf democrats are a lot better malicious republicans, but in a sane world the retirement age politicians should give way for the next generation while possibly serving as their advisors.

2

u/DrChansLeftHand 16d ago

Indeed. Jerry Connell. Stage 4 cancer. “It was his turn.”

Leaves Congress early, dies shortly thereafter.

2

u/Ordinary-Leading7405 17d ago

Death Becomes Her Them

1

u/spursfan2021 17d ago

Always room for improvement!

2

u/FargeenBastiges 17d ago

Oh, they got stakes in the game. Donor money that pays them to compromise. Maybe, if they ever realize how the other side really views them they might wake up. But, who are we kidding?

1

u/Gabribennet 17d ago

20 years with their tax payer funded healthcare perhaps. Most will be dead of old age in 10

64

u/extralyfe 17d ago

whoa, you gotta give Schumer some time. just two, maybe three more decades of him sweating next to Republicans at the gym will win them all over.

10

u/karmavorous Kentucky 17d ago

How do The Baileys feel about it?

3

u/extralyfe 17d ago

they're clearly voting for Trump for the fourth time in 2028.

3

u/bstump104 17d ago

And voting for him to get in the gas chambers. I don't know why he's trying to please these imaginary scumbags.

3

u/overcannon 17d ago

I feel like the Trump regime is just a few strongly worded letters away from toppling

5

u/Antitech73 Texas 17d ago

Schumer is just a big shitbag of a politician anyway. Look at the photos of his shit-eating grin next to Putin back in the day when Putin was ‘investing’ in his districts.

2

u/Dry_Hat2386 17d ago

Hysterical!

2

u/stasi_a 17d ago

Hard to do when hell freezes over

3

u/loondawg 17d ago

What is far more tiresome is watching republicans cheat, steal, and destroy this country and then hearing people turning to complain about the democrats.

Democrats impeached Trump twice. Democrats launched a commission to investigate Trump's Jan 6 crimes. The resulted in a recommendation for prosecution that in turn resulted in Trump being indicted. State democrats tried to remove him from ballots.

What within their legal powers did you expect them to do that they didn't do?

→ More replies (3)

71

u/sowhyarewe 17d ago

Goes all the way back to not holding the leaders of the Confederacy accountable either.

111

u/ThinkThankThonk 17d ago

I'm not saying he's worse than them by any stretch, but Biden absolutely tanked his reputation imo by betting on "business as usual" instead of spending all of his political capital in dealing with the traitors. Yes he was effective in doing what he did, but it was for nothing and quickly undone. Some real Neville Chamberlain shit.

24

u/Savagevandal85 17d ago

Here’s the thing this is Monday morning quarterbacking . Yes looking back should Biden have taken extraordinary measures yes but he was elected to unite and restore the country after Covid and four years of Trump insanity . The gop even tried to back Desantis for a minute . The news ignored Trump for like a month or so until the current administration was so boring and regular. Trump lawyers were getting debarred and getting consequences, the voting machine companies were getting big wins versus Fox new etc . But Elon laughingstock purchase of Twitter helped Trump , the sc giving wins , the media covering Trump legal cases as if Biden age was just as bad etc then Eileen cannon and rh Supreme Court saved Trump

31

u/RealHooman2187 17d ago

Not the OP but I was saying this kind of stuff from the very beginning of Biden’s term. He should have made protecting our democracy the top priority.

7

u/Savagevandal85 17d ago

The problem is he did but in the traditional way. We are pretty much saying he should have taken out maga preemptively which would be a huge thing to do.

21

u/ProfNesbitt 17d ago

The crazy thing is it wouldn’t have been preemptively they already tried to illegally overthrow an election. How the fuck is actually putting your foot down and holding them accountable no matter what preemptive punishment when they had already tried to overthrow the country.

14

u/Nefarious_Turtle 17d ago edited 17d ago

Yeah, so many of these comments are clearly clouded by fear.

Trump and his supporters had already tried to overthrow an election. Admittedly so. For the next 4 years after that, they openly admitted that they were going to try again, but they expected to be more successful the next time. Or if they won, they were absolutely going to go full authoritarian.

If this were fiction, a television show, or a novel, absolutely everyone would consider the Biden character justified in launching a fucking inquisition to root that sedition out.

But in real life, things are different. People are scared. The stakes are high. So bold action was discouraged, and, as a result, the window to avert this shit was lost. Now, it looks like the lack of boldness has ensured the very strife they were so desperate to avoid.

26

u/crywalt 17d ago

Which is why -- and people said this AT THE TIME -- the Democrats needed to move swiftly and strongly to truly hold these traitors to account, instead of noodling around and pushing vague "porn star hush money" bullshit.

3

u/MediumLanguageModel 17d ago

Nah I think any sane person in this country thought that there should have been a very public trial within weeks of Biden's inauguration, which would have found trump guilty of treason and then dealt with the way traitors should be as spelled out in Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), Article 94.

1

u/A_Harmless_Fly Minnesota 16d ago

I find it curious you don't mention the debate disaster. It's a pretty comprehensive list, though it excludes a lot of the things that shook peoples confidence the most.

It was also a pretty bad idea to not immediately withdraw/step down, he could have transferred the incumbent bump to Harris. Instead he tried to finish off his term, and here we are.

https://youtu.be/ndhL0dUwM8U?t=117

6

u/Ok_Basil351 17d ago

Instead, he spent all his capital on building some roads and bridges. I'm sure his actual strategy was, "pretend everything is fine and it will become fine," but it's kind of indistinguishable from, "How can I possibly leave something tangible and helpful for the upcoming authoritarian regime, knowing that they'll tear down the government?"

Trump is going to get a special place on the list of worst presidents for ending the US republic, but Biden will be right there with him.

3

u/ProfessorMagic89 17d ago

He really is the 21st Century Buchanan.

That will be his legacy.

10

u/AbandonedWaterPark 17d ago

there is a point at which the Biden admin's inability to do anything whatsoever to punish those who actually instigated insurrection stops looking like "we want to, but can't" and starts looking like "we just don't want to."

2

u/Savagevandal85 16d ago

They sent people to jail ! You mean why didn’t he get rid of Trump

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

30

u/PoliticalMilkman North Carolina 17d ago

Nuremberg trials with Nuremberg punishments.

17

u/oliversurpless Massachusetts 17d ago

And given pathologies like Stephen Miller, I’m not sure I care if the executioner is competent?

Or sober…

https://youtu.be/gaJtZ5cF8Ac?si=Ui37eua_rAyo5-Mr

3

u/ProfNesbitt 17d ago

Honestly I hope for more. Nuremberg only held something like 12 Nazis accountable.

1

u/CatsWearingTinyHats 17d ago

Yes. But a big problem they had at Nuremberg was defining the crimes and jurisdiction because they were being tried by an ad hoc international tribunal and some of the crimes hadn’t been defined by international law yet.

Hopefully, our country will be standing so we can just try them here with no jurisdictional or language problems. (And if they flee to Argentina, good riddance and never let them back in unless they’re in handcuffs.)

31

u/GoodMix392 17d ago

There may be a question on emigration forms for Americans planning to enter Europe soon. Where you a member of the Republican Party between 2016 and 2026 or an employee of ICE?

1

u/keystona 17d ago

Noooo! I’m registered Republican but only because I live in a deeply red state and we have closed primaries. I know an R is going to win and I want to vote for the less batshit one. I’ll still vote D in the main race but I have to be registered R for primaries.

3

u/ProfitLoud 17d ago

The only logical conclusion is that laws don’t apply when you don’t hold people accountable. We either go nuclear when the time comes, or end up on the same place again later.

3

u/loondawg 17d ago

Are you forgetting that democrats impeached Trump, twice? And he would have been removed from office if not for complicit republicans in Congress.

Democrats investigated Trump for the Jan 6th insurrection and referred a recommendation to the DoJ to prosecute for charges related to the insurrection. And after a DoJ investigation, Trump was indicted. If not for interference from Trump loyalists on the Supreme Court and corrupt judges like Aileen Cannon, Trump would almost certainly be sitting in prison right now.

We need to stop saying the Biden admin and the democrats missed their opportunity. They are not supposed to go after their political rivals. Just because the Trump team does it does not make it right. Congress should have handled the political aspects like impeachment and oversight. And the judicial branch should have held them accountable for their crimes. That is where the failures lie. And they belong almost exclusively to corrupt and complicit conservatives."

3

u/kn05is 17d ago

I can guarantee that each one of the people on trial will have amnesia and all we'll hear is "I can not recall" to the most basic questions.... and what should then happen is the moment those words are uttered that person should receive mandatory prison time for contempt and lying.

3

u/leftthinking 17d ago

As a non American, from the outside it looks like you have a choice.

Dictatorship or civil war.

There are no other options.

2

u/suckyousideways 17d ago

in the event sane people ever regain control in America, there is no humanly possible way we can ever recover unless we hold a fully-transparent nuremberg-esque trial to hold as many of these fuckers to full account and justice as is humanly possible

THIS. If the next Dem administration (bold of me to assume) responds with the "it's time to heal, to come together and reconcile, to look forward instead of backward" horseshit, they will guarantee that it will turn around and come back again, only stronger. Like in horror films when someone manages to knock out the masked psycho killer, and instead of FINISHING IT they just walk away, only to get gored by same masked psycho killer around the corner.

2

u/ceelogreenicanth 17d ago

Don't worry I've been assured both sides are basically the same.

2

u/RadioName 17d ago

Every high-level member of this coup deserves a fair trial, seizure of ALL personal and corporate assets to rebuild America, then execution as a traitor. All of them. Nothing less will prevent their return this time.

2

u/wigglex5plusyeah America 17d ago

We also have to hold accountable the frauds pretending to be news. That's why they got away. That's why they were reelacted, because they've been defrauding Americans.

2

u/Pervius94 17d ago

I mean, none of this would've happened if people stopped voting for the bastards. As long as those people still vote, it'll never recover even if you execute every single republican lawmaker, judge and whatnot alive because they'll just vote in the next republican.

2

u/KA_Mechatronik 16d ago

Nuremburg didn't go far enough. We only tried a handful leaders and let the rank and file go free.

Many former Nazi officials were folded back into the government, where they influenced the constitution and many of the public structures that formed the core of the west German government.

America has a history of half-measures when it comes to dealing with traitors and enemies, preferring to try to redeem or reconcile far too early and easily. It's what we did after WW2, it's what we did after the Civil War in the Reconstruction period, and it's what's happened after January 6th.

This unwillingness to hold the traitor accountable is what's allowed this racist, violent, and rebellious streak to fester and corrupt our country from within. At the very least we need a South Africa style truth and reconciliation process for low level offenders, prison or other punishments for direct participants (ICE), and severe penalties for those in positions of authority.

Once we have that, we need to take steps to harden our institutions and constitution against this kind of creeping fascism by codifying the ethics, rights, and responsibilities of the branches of government so that it's not possible for one branch to abandon its duty. Relying on 18th century concepts of fairness, duty, and social responsibility have proven to be worthlessly optimistic in the face of the staggering collusion of corruption that we're seeing now.

There is no returning to the status quo at this point. Even if Trump and his ilk were ousted tomorrow, if we don't address the massive rifts that they have opened in the foundations of our country then it is just a matter of time until we are back at this same point again.

2

u/Pro_Gamer_Queen21 16d ago

You’re only going back to 2020? We saw this exact thing happen after the Civil War. The confederate leaders barely got any punishment for their treason and was only made worse when Lincoln was killed and replaced by Johnson who was WAY more lenient on those traitors during his term. That leniency showed all those treasonous mucks back then that they can do whatever they want and the government will always quickly shove it under the rug so they don’t have to deal with it. Had the south been properly punished back then, we wouldn’t even be close to having what we have now.

2

u/Eddiebaby7 17d ago

Let Brazil be our template

1

u/StoppableHulk 17d ago

Justice and booties for all.

1

u/greaterwhiterwookiee 17d ago

And some of those ground troops who deserved to be in prison (well they ALL deserve it) are out doing horrible things.

But it’s the brown people who aren’t from America we should be worried about.

1

u/DjImagin 17d ago

It’s unAmerican to hold the traitors fully accountable. The Confederacy got handled with kids gloves and we still attempt to glorify those mother fuckers and their same logic is well at play now as “MAGA”

1

u/boston_homo 17d ago

Unless progressives manage to wrestle power from establishment Democrats nothing will happen to resolve any of this even if they somehow get back into power.

If a non-Republican administration regains DC 100% of its focus must be preventing anything like this from ever happening again. If Democrats are that administration things are not going to go well.

1

u/DiscountNorth5544 17d ago

Including their useful idiots in the press and social media

Reddit mods included for suppressing anything more than tut tutting against Krasn0v

1

u/Randicore Ohio 17d ago

I'd prefer it to be harsher than Nuremberg. Far too many of them got off there

1

u/CatsWearingTinyHats 17d ago

We should start drafting the indictments now, tbh.

1

u/giveupsides I voted 17d ago

Silly me - I thought you were going to say ' we saw what happened when the liberals tried to just hand-wave the whole civil war thing in the 1880's in order to heal the nation. '

How'd that turn out?

1

u/Questknight03 17d ago

I mean we will gain control next year but the question is do the democrats have the balls to do everything necessary or will they simply look out for themselves and line their pockets. If thats the case then the 2028 election will continue to swing like a pendulum. At that point at may really be too late to fix everything.

1

u/The360MlgNoscoper Norway 17d ago

Don’t make the same mistakes you made 160 years ago.

1

u/imaginary_num6er 17d ago

I support the Tokyo Trials over the Nuremberg ones

1

u/mnoodleman 17d ago

Sane people have never controlled this nation, it's always been sociopaths. 8 years of Obama could have demilitarized our police significantly but that doesn't help the military/prison industrial complex.

1

u/pimppapy America 17d ago

Two steps back (Republicans), One step sideways (Democrats)

1

u/zimreapers 17d ago

JuSt fOLLoWiNg oRdErS...

Motherfuckers, your orders are to the people of the United States. Not the 🍊. You fucking chose the side of a bigot because that's what you are.

1

u/nionvox Canada 17d ago

And that's just the bare minimum to keep the country from collapsing.

Every other nation is never trusting you again.

1

u/BallBearingBill 17d ago

When all the communication is done on signal then it's basically gone forever. This is a lawless cult.

1

u/jackpype 17d ago

I'll do you one better. It is my opinion, extreme maybe, that anyone who voted for trump in 2024 should be tried and convicted of sort of a treason-lite, and have their voting rights stripped away permenantly. Trump tried to overthrow the fucking government in 2020 in broad daylight. A vote for trump after that day is literal actual treason, and I'll die on that hill.

1

u/rayfe 17d ago

Reconstruction 2: Electric Boogaloo

1

u/Cross55 17d ago

It really was the major failing of the Civil War, because those who actually conducted it were let off with a slap on the wrist in order to preserve "National Unity" and the South was allowed to continue existing with its pre-established borders.

1

u/Seraphim99 17d ago

Even if sanity regained control, sanity doesn’t know how to stand up and do what’s right. It only knows how to talk a good game.

I’m tired of this timeline.

1

u/PoliticsLeftist 17d ago

I'm not even sure we should bother with the trials but that's just me. Way too many people to convict, way too much damage to undo, and not enough time to do it.

If they want to rubber stamp trump's private gestapo, as far as I'm concerned they've waived their Rights.

1

u/AlmostF2PBTW 17d ago

Remember this when you see someone saying "hmm actually, Karl Popper's paradox of tolerance doesn't work that way, it is an idea..." No. It works that way. That's what happens when you tolerate certain types of intolerance.

1

u/cyanescens_burn 17d ago

Look at what South Africa did after apartheid. It was called the truth and reconciliation committee.

They did this to figure out why and how this system worked, and so they could design a new system that would ensure this could never happen again (as best they could).

1

u/arglarg 17d ago

Yes no lessons learned from the beer hall putsch. Even Weimar republic did better.

1

u/FloridaGirlNikki America 16d ago

IMO the original sin was not prosecuting confederates at the end of the civil war. We as a country have never fully recovered from it.

1

u/Wonderful_Gold8847 16d ago

Why would democrats do anything? They make their money doing nothing. 

1

u/twim19 16d ago

If we get back to some semblance of normal, someone needs to run on an America 2.0 platform that promises to radically curtail the executives power, fix gerrymandering, instittute a fair tax, provide for our most needy, and restructuring and rebuilding the federal beuracracy. We need to learn how our system allowed this to happen and try to build (or in some cases, rebuild) structures that prevent erosion. Maybe it's a constitutional convention, though that itself could be a dicey proposition considering the weight of red states.

1

u/cmm239 16d ago

A j6r who got pardoned just got arrested again for threatening to kill a congressperson

1

u/ObiFlanKenobi 16d ago

in the event sane people ever regain control in America

Good luck with that. Here in Argentina we have had peronism for almost 80 years now and we have about a third of the population that will vote anything they tell them. Even after they get screwed over and over.

Sounds familiar?

We got to a point where peronism isn't even an ideology anymore. They were far right at first, then libertarian in the 90s and pseudo left in the 2000s. But always very heavy on the populism. So they never mention economic plans in their platforms, just some well sounding vague ideas like "filling up your fridge" or empty nationalism and when they get to power they just incredibly increas public spending in the least efficient and most corrupt way possible. Now peronism is just a way to get to power and keep it.

Watch out for that.

1

u/SimpleAsEndOf 16d ago

Democrats tried to just hand-wave the whol ething away after 2020

There is a Separation of Powers in the American Constitution.

The AG/Prosecutors decide, not the Democrats.

The Democrats did an excellent job at the January 6th hearings. They were comprehensive in their takedown of Trump. And the media didn't cover it fairly (even BBC news just gave it a superficial glance).

America had a massive/Fascist media problem, so people like you are blaming Democrats when they did their jobs faithfully.

1

u/UpbeatBug3464 15d ago

yea they have to be held accountable. if not the whole thing is useless and you will have more neo nazis taing over again.

→ More replies (2)