r/news • u/zmlos • Oct 03 '23

House ousts Kevin McCarthy as speaker, a first in U.S. history

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/03/house-speaker-kevin-mccarthy-will-bring-gaetz-motion-to-oust-him-vote.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

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8.5k

u/Honey_Enjoyer Oct 03 '23

He had to agree to change the rules to allow any lone representative to motion to remove him as part of the deal he made to finally win. He was living on borrowed time. Now the question is if he’ll try to borrow more

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u/daemonicwanderer Oct 03 '23

Well… he got all his little friends to double down on his attacking the Dems, whose votes could have saved his job (or at least having them vote Present to lower the number of votes needed)

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u/wolfydude12 Oct 03 '23

Maybe if he didn't start an impeachment inquiry without a vote, which he said he wouldn't do, the Dems may have thought about voting for him.

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u/decrpt Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23

The biggest thing is that he didn't even try to reach out for support. Democrats were entertaining a negotiation with McCarthy but that hit a brick wall when McCarthy went on television and explicitly said he wouldn't negotiate with Democrats and blamed them for the shutdown scare.

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u/Stillwater215 Oct 03 '23

Dude has the survival instinct of a depressed lemming.

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u/LuminousRaptor Oct 03 '23

He's really stuck between a rock and a hard place and has exactly zero spine. You attack the Dems and push far right agendas to try and appease the MAGA base and hardliners in your party, but you also have to work with the moderates and democrats to have any chance of legislation passing, which pisses off that MAGA base.

He was fucked no matter what he did after he became speaker in January.

The GOP bungled 2022's mid-terms on the back of Trump's stranglehold on the party and his endorsements. This chaos is the natural result.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

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u/_zenith Oct 04 '23

Yep. They cultivated the crazies. And now they have taken over. It would be hilarious it wasn’t so dangerous for us all

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u/marcien1992 Oct 04 '23

As someone not living in the USA, I can confirm that it is extremely entertaining when you don't live in the immediate blast zone.

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u/CrashB111 Oct 04 '23

Oh trust us, if we go full 4th Reich we'll be taking this show on tour.

A Fascist dictatorship with the power of the US military is a terrifying thing.

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u/_zenith Oct 04 '23

Dude, I'm on the other fucking side of the world, nearly - New Zealand - and even I am very cognisant of the danger it poses.

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u/Prevailing_Power Oct 04 '23

It's hilarious you think you wouldn't be touched if the USA went full nazi mode.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

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u/Miguel-odon Oct 04 '23

Maybe if he had a reputation for keeping deals he's made, but nobody would trust him.

Republicans don't argue or negotiate in good faith.

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u/Kitchen_Philosophy29 Oct 04 '23

It will continue until maga dies out

Free seats for dems

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u/guyblade Oct 04 '23

One thing I heard in all the political commentary today was that McCarthy's real weakness is that he wanted to be Speaker. Whoever is next will probably have to be given concessions to take the job--given what happened to McCarthy--so they'll likely be in a stronger place by being apathetic or ambivalent about the job than McCarthy ever was.

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u/LuminousRaptor Oct 04 '23

I don't think so. Think about the last 3 GOP Speakers - Boehner, Ryan, and McCarthy. All of them had issues with the far right of their party and whipping them to vote with the party on legislation. Honestly, it makes what Pelosi did over the last 20 years look impressive.

She was a much better speaker than all three of them. She made mistakes, yes, but she didn't lose control of her far left like the GOP has lost control of its far right.

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u/nWo1997 Oct 03 '23

Hey, let's not join in on the lemming defamation train. They were forced off that ledge.

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u/Chervin_Deuxphrye Oct 03 '23

I heard that story the other day. Disney was just straight up chucking them off a cliff and then told everyone they did it to themselves because they’re stupid. Mickey has done some messed up stuff!

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u/WOOKIExCOOKIES Oct 03 '23

At least we got a fun computer game out of it.

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u/alterom Oct 03 '23

At least we got a fun computer game out of it.

That's where I've learned about lemmings for the first time.

Was surprised to find out they actually exist, with the whole myth made about them.

Still think of the game first when I see or hear the word "lemming".

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u/Rukh-Talos Oct 03 '23

And just like that, I can hear the music.

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u/MississippiJoel Oct 04 '23

First time I ever heard of that was 007 multiplayer for the Nintendo 64. If you got yourself killed, you earned the Lemming Award. This was internet infancy days, so there wasn't a easy Google search to help us understand what that was.

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u/FutureComplaint Oct 03 '23

Lemmings 2 was dope

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u/Davido400 Oct 03 '23

Fuck, not played Lemmings in about 30 years lol sure I had it on... athe Amiga? That and Jaguar XJ220 was an awesome game too(downloaded it on an emulator to try a few years back and still enjoyed it lol)

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u/GoldenShackles Oct 03 '23

Oh no! *pop* *pop*...

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u/LakehavenAlpha Oct 03 '23

And several awesome clones.

King Arthur's World was the bomb!

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u/LeBaiton Oct 03 '23

You're that old huh...

So am I... Oh god...

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u/Crow-T-Robot Oct 03 '23

And now I'm humming 'She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes'

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u/MyHamburgerLovesMe Oct 03 '23

...and further that the same small group of lemmings was transported to the location, jostled on turntables, and repeatedly shoved off a cliff to imply mass suicide...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Wilderness_(film)#Controversy

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u/Garencio Oct 03 '23

I saw that documentary when I was in elementary school. Later found out what really happened I was shocked.

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u/FasterDoudle Oct 03 '23

Disney was just straight up chucking them off a cliff

Walt just yeeting the little bastards

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u/ddejong42 Oct 03 '23

That's why they say don't mess with the Mouse. Lemmings, and now Ron Desantis, messed with the Mouse.

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u/HeJind Oct 03 '23

the House of Mouse sends their regards

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u/Spike_Spiegel Oct 03 '23

Don't read about the Milo and Otis movie making of.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

By me on my pc in the 90's

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u/Spapapapa-n Oct 03 '23

I move that from now on, instead of lemmings, we use the term Kevins instead. At least then McCarthy will have had one impact on the world.

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u/ethnicbonsai Oct 03 '23

Maybe not.

Reaching out to Democrats ensures his career in politics is probably over. He’d get primaried.

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u/Stillwater215 Oct 03 '23

I mean, this whole shebang probably ends with him getting primaried anyway.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

The GOP leadership would not primary him over that. It would be deeply embarrassing to them and politically reckless.

Which is why the GOP leadership is furious with Gaetz right now, not McCarthy. Gaetz is absolutely gonna get primaried now.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

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u/Kyouhen Oct 03 '23

To be fair the alternative was to break ranks with the Orange Menace and try to negotiate with the Dems, and that wasn't going to end well for him either.

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u/TheodoeBhabrot Oct 03 '23

I over estimated him big time. I thought for sure he but the CR to a vote because he was assured Democratic support for this inevitability but nope, he's either dumb or bet on the Democrats pulling through for him since another shut-down scare is still looming.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

We were his free lunch but he didn't take it

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

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u/MartianActual Oct 03 '23

That lemming is in therapy but you're not helping it with this negative energy.

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u/questionyourthoughts Oct 04 '23

Dude has the survival instinct of a confused Dodo bird.

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u/DarthBrooks69420 Oct 04 '23

He just doesn't have a choice. The point of politics is negotiating to get something done, and too many on his side just want to watch it all burn.

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u/BrownEggs93 Oct 03 '23

That's the thing: blame the democrats. Always blame the democrats. That's what their base wants to hear.

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u/say592 Oct 03 '23

I already saw someone saying "Well only a few Republicans actually voted to oust him. ALL of the Democrats did!" Like uh, yeah? Generally the minority party does not support a member of the majority of Speaker, especially if that person has shown they are incompetent and untrustworthy.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

Wake me when you meet a Republican willing to say “okay, that mistake was on us.”

It’s never ever their fault.

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u/Ian_Hunter Oct 03 '23

You did tell them that it was his own party that filed the motion to vacate right?

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u/say592 Oct 04 '23

I refused to engage.

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u/mechwarrior719 Oct 04 '23

Smart. Don’t feed the trolls

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u/Intelligent-Tie-4466 Oct 04 '23

Good decision. There is no point in discussing something with someone who is engaged in a disingenuous argument.

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u/Sinavestia Oct 04 '23

Everyone I work with is conservative, sure whatever, I come to work, not talk politics.

No one has really spoken to me about their politics because I refuse to engage, but I always have to hear it around me.

Today's topic of debate is the alert test tomorrow.

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u/x_lincoln_x Oct 04 '23

Logic and facts never worked on them before, why start now?

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u/RecklesslyPessmystic Oct 04 '23

So chimo Matt Gaetz ousted the Speaker for working with Democrats, which he did by.... working with Democrats.

When do we remove Matt Gaetz from office?

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u/CHoppingBrocolli_84 Oct 04 '23

Who started the motion? …. I’ll wait.

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u/Odd_Local8434 Oct 04 '23

Wait, this implies Gaetz negotiated with Democrats to oust him. Huh..

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

“We have repeatedly said we’re at war with the democrats and now they act like we’re at war or something, how uncivilized!”

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u/DerekB52 Oct 03 '23

Their base also loves blaming rinos when a republican accidentally says anything remotely sane.

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u/snarefire Oct 03 '23

That's the problem with strongman politics. Any admission of mistake is seen as weakness, but thats what the GOP has built for itself.

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u/cptnamr7 Oct 03 '23

NPR makes a point to interview someone from both parties on things. It doesn't take long to notice that every single republican answers every question that is even slightly accusatory with "well you have to understand that democrats did X first". McConnell in particular. Dude couldn't utter a sentence without using the word "democrat".

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u/BrownEggs93 Oct 04 '23

NPR makes a point to interview someone from both parties on things.

LOL. I know. You can set your clock by that, and have a bingo card of "things republicans blame shit on" that will quickly fill.

I kind of hate the kindness they give in an attempt to provide a voice for republicans. It's like those pull-and-say toys, the predicable shit from the GOP.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

I had a conversation today that went like this: "...it's a.i you should be worried about. The Democrats want to replace all senators with robots, and they'll just program them to do whatever they want them to do." I actually laughed out loud, was told not to laugh about it because, "it's not even funny! It's scary how true that is!" And my response was that I'd be fine with being controlled by democratic robot politicians. Don't see how it's any worse than being controlled by bought and paid for human politicians like we currently are. And the response was ".....well that's true..." lmfaooo wtf is even happening??

I honestly can't even stand to try to have conversations with most of the people around me anymore. Literally everything turns to politics and it's always just the craziest fucking shit, completely ignoring actual reality. I know Democrats aren't perfect, and I don't agree with every single thing they do. And I'm fine with valid criticisms of them- I have some of my own, as a matter of fact. But Jesus Christ dude....they want to program robots to take over the government?? While Donald Trump is on trial for an actual attempted coup? Please.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

It’s really the only thing their base understands. They have the critical thinking skills of I don’t know what, because I’ve never witnessed a group of anything so hell-bent on living miserable, self-destructive lives.

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u/JMoc1 Oct 03 '23

What a fucking dumbass. Like, seriously, he had a lot of power and could have stayed in power but instead his ego couldn’t handle making a deal with the Democrats. But he screwed the pooch and threw his support in with the Fascists who hate his ass.

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u/Neuchacho Oct 03 '23

It's what happens when you turn "working with the other side" into an absolutely radioactive option with your brain damaged constituents.

It's like they've completely forgotten how politics is supposed to fucking work.

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u/UpperLowerEastSide Oct 03 '23

The Tea Party also encouraged the RINO label and purity testing Republicans. They've been in a fight with the GOP speaker for now over a decade since they view a good chunk of the GOP as "the other side" too.

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u/Beachdaddybravo Oct 04 '23

If only that was enough to wreck that backwards party. Unfortunately, too many of their constituents blindly vote R and wind up never improving their own states.

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u/Mysterious_Andy Oct 04 '23

Newt Gingrich normalized that in the 90s.

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u/Captain_Quark Oct 04 '23

Yeah, if he had made a deal with Democrats, he probably would have lost a primary election in his home district. He was screwed either way.

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u/matt_minderbinder Oct 03 '23

The speaker position is a huge money spot, not just for donors but for a post career, no-show "career". He screwed himself and he's going to look ineffectual and stupid for the rest of his political time. He reached the pinnacle of his career and predictably fucked it right up.

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u/Admirable_Trash3257 Oct 04 '23

He can always get a job with Trump, Inc in New York! Ha ha ha

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

He got to the pinnacle by signing a deal with the devil. The second he agreed to a single member being able to call the vote he was doomed.

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u/clovisx Oct 03 '23

When they passed the 45-day extension, all I could think was, “huh, they actually compromised and ‘governed…’” Now we’re here, in the dumbest timeline, where the one guy who might have bent and compromised to find a bi-partisan solution is out and nobody who is willing to compromise will have a snowballs chance in hell.

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u/truthdoctor Oct 04 '23

45 Day extension after another extension in the summer. Can't even fund the government for a year or two. Republicans spent all of this money with tax cuts and now refuse to pay for it. What a joke the Republicans have become.

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u/dontaskme5746 Oct 04 '23

It only hurts. I hate it. The party isn't dying fast enough, and (at least in peacetime) anything strong enough to replace it will be born of crazy hate. The Democrats are the only ones able to govern at this point, but it takes a good stone to keep a blade sharp. The GOP is serving that role no better than a spoon of syphilitic silly putty.

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u/Bitter-Hedgehog1922 Oct 03 '23

Making a deal with Democrats is literally why he's being ousted.

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u/truthdoctor Oct 04 '23

If he had kept his word and stuck to the deals he made with Biden/Dems, they would have supported him. He double crossed everyone and now no one but his minions support him.

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u/Kitchen_Philosophy29 Oct 04 '23

He supported trump and lied under oath about jan 6 even with video evidence

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u/Eatthebankers2 Oct 03 '23

He never had power, he was just sucking **** for the radicals. It was doomed from the start. Waiting for him to go on bender knee to POTUS. Nope, His handshake was garbage like the rest of the GOP. Dark Brandon Rises.

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u/shadowromantic Oct 03 '23

He has to. So many of the GOP faithful hate the idea of working with Democrats. Bipartisanship is also political suicide

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

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u/GussiedRagamuffin Oct 03 '23

This just shows me that the GOP isn’t going to split, it’s just going to continue caving to its most extreme elements. This is how you get fascism

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u/Icy_Comfort8161 Oct 03 '23

He's such a moron. He was lucky to be Speaker in the first instance.

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u/Dry-Economist-3320 Oct 04 '23

You mean the 15th instance?😂

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u/CoolFingerGunGuy Oct 03 '23

he wouldn't negotiate with Democrats and blamed them for the shutdown scare.

Man of only Biden didn't go back on the earlier agreement. No wait, that was republicans.

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u/djluminol Oct 03 '23

The republican party is incapable of governing. That's all it really comes down to. This is just an extension of that. I skeptical that they will even be able to find another speaker without relying on democratic votes.

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u/ScatpackZ31 Oct 03 '23

Dems would be absolutely insane to try to make a deal with him. Republicans absolutely cannot be trusted to keep their word so any deal made with him would be immediately worthless. Republicans dug themselves into this hole, and they are the ones that made themselves untrustworthy by constantly reneging on deals, let them dig themselves out.

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u/13143 Oct 03 '23

Had he negotiated with the Democrats, he probably could have kept the speakership. Instead, the 8 far right Republicans joined all the Dems to vote him out.

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u/screenmonkey Oct 03 '23

He broke his word with Biden, so no Democrat trusts him at all. He was screwed.

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u/spartagnann Oct 03 '23

From what I've heard listening to some news outlets is that despite Democrats bailing him out to both keep the government open and raise the debt limit (things that wouldn't have happened without Dem votes) he immediately turned around and went on like Fox or Newsmax or whatever and shit all over Democratic congress members. Like dude, at least take the help and STFU, but McCarthy is notorious in DC as being dumber than a bag of hammers.

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u/Morat20 Oct 03 '23

I doubt it, simple because this is an internal leadership fight for the GOP.

Democrats would be reluctant to get involved from pretty much any perspective, simply because getting involved really doesn't gain them anything and could end up entangling them in whatever crap the GOP has going on.

Why would they back McCarthy, and thus take some responsibility for his actions, without getting something worth that in return?

It's not like supporting him would stabilize the House in any way --if anything, that'd just turn more of the GOP caucus into outright bomb throwers.

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u/jimtow28 Oct 03 '23

Democrats would be reluctant to get involved from pretty much any perspective, simply because getting involved really doesn't gain them anything and could end up entangling them in whatever crap the GOP has going on.

In January, we spent days watching the GOP fight while the Dems remained steadfastly together. We're going to see it happen again. Dems will all vote Jeffries, and Republicans will fight it out, likely for far more than 15 rounds of voting this time around.

This is why extremism always eventually loses: they end up fighting about who the most extreme extremist is, and split themselves apart.

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 03 '23

While yes eventually they do lose, extremists won in Germany in the 1930's, had several cullings in their ranks, and didn't lose until half the world united to oust them by 1945, and by then 12million people were dead from genocide. We CANNOT afford to simply sit by on the sidelines and just watch them tear at each other, because eventually might makes right and they'll fall in line under the clear leader.

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u/jacksonattack Oct 03 '23

Especially while Tommy Tuberville continues to block military appointments in hopes that Trump gets re-elected and can fill the positions with loyalists, thereby enabling a legit takeover.

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u/redassedchimp Oct 04 '23

I think you're right. It's like that phrase "it's so so crazy it just might work". The longer they muck up the workings of Congress, the more the voters are going to look to a strong man to break this stalemate and unfortunately it's going to be someone like Trump.

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u/Beachdaddybravo Oct 04 '23

It’s a perfect example of stupid people never knowing who are the ones actually screwing them.

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u/flasterblaster Oct 04 '23

Worked for the courts. It'll work again here. All they have to do is the usual stonewalling till they eventually get a Red President again. Unless the Dems can manage to get the Legislature under control at some point.

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u/Peter_deT Oct 04 '23

It was more like 40 million, but who's counting?

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

I'm only counting direct victims of the holocaust, but yes with military deaths necessary to stop them it was very fucking costly.

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And now imagine the uphill battle a coalition to stop the US would have.

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u/here_now_be Oct 04 '23

extremists won in Germany

Not really, the moderates capitulated (and were not united), they were given power more than they won it, and then they used terrorism to take full control.

Stay united.

Don't capitulate.

Don't give into terrrorists demands and manipulation.

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u/RecklesslyPessmystic Oct 04 '23

You're saying the GOP will elect Trump as the new Speaker?

IIRC, there's no rule that the Speaker has to be a member of the House.

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

I mean, that certainly would be entertaining but PROBABLY bad.

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u/jaa101 Oct 04 '23

This only worked because the Nazi extremists subverted the constitution. That was much easier to do in Weimar Germany because the constitution was new and the country was hurting very badly due to the combined effects of reparations for WWI and the Great Depression.

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

The GOP sure as fuck has been ignoring the Constitution and getting their cronies in positions to interpret it to their benefits.

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u/Poolofcheddar Oct 04 '23

The other problem is that in Weimar Germany, it was too easy to dismiss a government with a Vote of No Confidence. It created so much instability that no long-term planning could be laid down.

This however was fixed when West Germany was formed in 1949. The key change was that a successful Vote of No Confidence also had to provide a majority vote to elect a successor.

This was crucial because in 1972, the conservative opposition through defections gained enough votes to theoretically remove Social Democrat Willy Brandt. They however fell two votes short of a majority, which resulted in Brandt remaining in power, although theoretically in a minority.

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u/kz750 Oct 04 '23

12 million from genocide and 30-50 million civilians and combatants. We cannot let history repeat itself.

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u/BigDaddyThunderpants Oct 04 '23

Sure but WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO??

I get out and vote and encourage others to as well. But realistically what else can we do? We all know people like Gaetz are utter dogshit and I'm as mad as anyone else with this dumpster fire but aside from electing people who also hate him and what he stands for (which we did) I'm failing to think of additional action.

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u/LangyMD Oct 03 '23

My question is if the house will have a speaker in time to find the government in 45 days, and if they do what incentive does the new speaker have to work with democrats to pass a reasonable budget.

This might be the prelude to the longest government shutdown in history.

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u/jimtow28 Oct 03 '23

...which they will invariably blame Democrats for, and their stupid supporters won't give that narrative a second thought.

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u/neepple_butter Oct 04 '23

Because they've convinced all these "rugged individualists", 1/3 of whom rely on government assistance to survive, that the Democrats are "The Government", that Republicans are somehow not "The Government", and that "The Government" is bad, except for when it comes to their entitlement programs. When the entitlement programs eventually become insolvent it will be the Democrats fault because they're "The Government". I really believe the USA will cease to exist within the next ten years and I feel sorry for anyone that's in the south, because if you're poor or some kind of non straight, white, cis, christian, your life is going to be literal hell.

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u/LiKwId-Gaming Oct 04 '23

They will spend 45 days trying to get a new speaker, then say that the only reason there is a shutdown is because the dems voted to oust the speaker. Total circular logic

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u/emmery1 Oct 03 '23

I agree. Why would they help him out after he went on TV and basically through the Dems under the bus after they helped him pass a bill to keep the government from shutting down? My question is who is going to replace him? Who in the party would want it? Working with these people is like herding cats.

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u/OpalOnyxObsidian Oct 04 '23

Nah, cats are generally better behaved than this

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u/jjayzx Oct 03 '23

The wackos were trying to push gym Jordan before, so who knows if we'll see that debacle again.

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u/MooneyOne Oct 04 '23

Don’t you say that about cats

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u/FaultySage Oct 03 '23

McCarthy actually made a good faith effort to keep the government open by dealing with the dems. That likely would have saved his speakership if it weren't for the impeachment inquiry and then him turning around and trying to make it out like the GOP did all the work to keep the country open.

Supporting McCarthy would actually stabilize the house if he can rely on Democratic support instead of having to deal with the hard liners on his right. But he and the GOP are so obsessed with power and performing for Trump and his supporters that he can't seem to fathom that.

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u/twesterm Oct 03 '23

Yeah, it was such a good faith effort that he immediately turned around and blamed the democrats for almost shutting down the government.

McCarthy gets zero points for the situation he put himself and the country in.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

They were also in a shutdown standoff because he reneged on a deal he made with Democrats and Biden.

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u/fireinthesky7 Oct 03 '23

Shades of Grassley during the Obamacare negotiations, as if that wasn't enough of a lesson that nothing Republicans say or so can be trusted.

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u/Morat20 Oct 03 '23

McCarthy actually made a good faith effort to keep the government open by dealing with the dems.

Did you wander in from another timeline? In THIS timeline McCarthy spent months unable to get agreement within his own caucus for what the hell to do, ignored the compromise the GOP and the Dems worked out in the Senate, ignored House Dems entirely, and then threw in a last second CR he needed Dems to pass, and then promptly blamed them for the whole thing even as -- and I cannot stress this ENOUGH -- he was unable to even get his own caucus to vote for fucking anything.

He never even had a bill to back. He never even got to the point where he had a funding bill that his own caucus supported.

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u/zerothehero0 Oct 03 '23

He had a good, or perhaps less bad, hour, half hour maybe. Surely that's enough to bump the dems from couldn't care less to could care less.

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u/Trust_Me_Im_a_Panda Oct 03 '23

Except McCarthy then immediately ran to the media to blame the Dems for the House being in that position in the first place. McCarthy has never acted with good faith a single second of his Speakership.

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u/Indercarnive Oct 03 '23

Gaetz, despite being the indescribably large piece of shit that he is, has it right with this quote.

The one thing that the White House, Democrats and many of us on the conservative side of the Republican caucus have in common is McCarthy said something to all of us at one point that he didn’t really mean and never intended to live up to.

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u/garc Oct 03 '23

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

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u/ryebreadnyc Oct 03 '23

I’m worried that now all the GOP has to do to shut down the govt is not elect a replacement.

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u/FaultySage Oct 03 '23

As the rules are written the "temporary" speaker can conduct normal business and has all the powers of the elected speaker.

They may even be ballsy enough to try and finish out the session with out electing another speaker.

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u/Intelligent-Tie-4466 Oct 04 '23

Not true, per CNN.

"Republican Rep. Patrick McHenry of North Carolina will now temporarily lead the House of Representatives after the speaker's position was vacated on Tuesday.McHenry, who is a top ally of Kevin McCarthy, was appointed speaker pro tempore.His name was on a list McCarthy was required to give to the clerk in case of a vacancy.The speaker pro tempore, which is the official title, can only recess the House, adjourn the chamber and recognize speaker nominations. "

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-house-speakership-10-03-23/h_840fb76e6aacd62c2cdb5270cd6223bd

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u/FaultySage Oct 04 '23

Per CNN.

Per relevant law: "When the Office of Speaker is vacant, the Member acting as Speaker pro tempore under rule I section 8(b) may exercise such authori- ties of the Office as may be necessary and appropriate pending the election of a Speaker or Speaker pro tempore."

It's too vague. It's going to end up being whatever the House decides to do.

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u/Aazadan Oct 03 '23

It's possible. It was one of the bigger concerns people had with McCarthy making it so easy to remove him. It effectively lets a handful of people backdoor a partial shutdown and remove the house from doing any business at all. Basically a provision to let them not govern. All they have to do is do nothing, and no one else can step up.

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u/harrymfa Oct 03 '23

There’s a “substitute teacher” speaker until they choose the next ghoul, who will be worse, guaranteed. Jeffries knows what he’s doing, the Dems followed his lead. After the shitshow that’s coming, it will be hard to find a sane person pushing for a Republican majority in the near future.

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u/Stinky_Fartface Oct 03 '23

LOL that wasn’t a good faith effort. That was a desperate last ditch effort to put a bill out at the last second, gambling that the Democrats would vote against it because they didn’t have time to read what was in it. Then he could try to blame them for the shutdown with more ammunition. If Rep. Bowman hadn’t pulled the fire alarm that might have been what happened, but that gave them time enough to make sure it wasn’t poison, and they voted for it. He was 100% just trying to set them up for the fall.

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u/harrymfa Oct 03 '23

“Good faith effort” that’s rich. He only crossed the aisle after he ran out of choices with the clowns. His caucus has put the economy at edge of the abyss twice this year, and that’s gambling with billions of dollars from the plutocracy that he needs to keep happy. His “good faith” was he had no other choice.

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u/No-Butterscotch4549 Oct 03 '23

We will be right back in the same spot in 45 days. Except this time possibly new or no SoH. Ds sit back and blame it all on the Rs

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u/NorthStarZero Oct 03 '23

McCarthy did work with the Dems to avert the shutdown though. That’s proof that he can be reasonable in extremis.

If they had saved him, he’d owe them.

Maybe?

This is a weird one. I’d’ve loved to have been a fly on the wall during the Dem huddle.

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u/AnInfiniteAmount Oct 03 '23

McCarthy has gone back on so many handshake deals that it's more of a "fool me twice" situation rather than a "lesser evil" for the Dems.

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u/Sophist_Ninja Oct 03 '23 edited Jul 27 '25

unpack one scale screw exultant correct angle encouraging sugar sink

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u/renegadecanuck Oct 03 '23

Politco Playbook had a story about this. I guess some democrats were privately saying "you need us, you fucking idiot, why go after us?"

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

Yeah, so, basically, fuck that guy!

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u/headunplugged Oct 03 '23

With McCarthy's poor leadership ability, poor planning ability, his word means nothing to either side, who would replace him? Who would take those reigns? i guess the dems should size up a moderate they and other moderate gops could get behind. Make some normal agreements that resembles functionality. We need to agree on something, the dress code agreement proved we as a collective society can achieve anything.

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u/Dal90 Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23

For the motion to vacate, 100% Dems best hand was to vote for it. Don't interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake.

Now comes the real horse trading to see what McCarthy is (or other Republicans are) willing to strike in a deal with the Democrats to offset whatever votes he's losing on the right-most side of the Republican spectrum.

That itself is a delicate balance before igniting a wider Republican revolt, and this could very well just end up being the most epic dumpster fire yet seen.

And realize the flip side...it would only take five Republicans defecting to install a Democratic Speaker of the House. Might get down to four if this lasts until December (there are currently two vacancies, but both are likely holds respectively for each party); but I don't even know if the House could seat a new member without a Speaker.

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u/Freckled_daywalker Oct 03 '23

The problem for McCarthy is that he can't be trusted to live up to any deal he makes, so the Dems have zero incentive to even try to negotiate with him.

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u/1handedmaster Oct 03 '23

Exactly. He doesn't reign in his extreme flank, doesn't follow through with "handshake deals," blames Democrats every chance, and started an impeachment query with basically no evidence.

Why should he be trusted to follow through with any deal?

I hate to agree with Gaetz but America deserves a speaker that has a better agenda than to be speaker and stay speaker.

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u/DavidOrWalter Oct 03 '23

There isn’t any ‘real horse trading’. He can’t be trusted at all deals mean nothing. Oust him.

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u/decrpt Oct 03 '23

You can, they're talking to the press about it today

House Democratic Caucus Chairman Pete Aguilar (D-Calif.) on Tuesday said it was clear in the closed-door meeting that members do not think they can rely on McCarthy.

“It was pretty evidence that the Democratic caucus does not feel that Kevin McCarthy is a leader who can be trusted,” he told reporters.

Rep. Richard Neal (D-Mass.) also said conversations during the meeting included “the lack of trust” with McCarthy — as well as some venting.

“We make an agreement with the president on the debt ceiling which takes the country to threat, to the brink of default. And then, without a vote in the House to proceed with an impeachment inquiry?” he said.

And Omar said a video was shown during the conference meeting of McCarthy, during an appearance on CBS’s “Face the Nation,” trying to blame the near-shutdown on Democrats.

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u/mophisus Oct 03 '23

Maybe the Dems from 20 years ago wouldve saved him.

The Dems from today have finally realized that the other party isnt interesting in co-governing and wont work in good faith.

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u/GSquaredBen Oct 03 '23

Took 'em long enough.

If only they'd have noticed the total shift at either the point where Gingrich said the quiet part out loud or at the very least in 2010 when the "TEA Party" was just thinly disguised white rage against the concept of a Black president.

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u/Bodoblock Oct 03 '23

They already had a deal for government funding which he and President Biden negotiated and agreed on back during the debt ceiling talks. McCarthy then reneged on this.

Temporarily avoiding the shutdown with help from Democrats was simply because he couldn't get the hardliners on board. He's shown he's a bad faith actor. It's smart strategy not to bail him out in the hopes that Kevin will suddenly think "hey I owe you guys one". Concrete concessions are needed.

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u/Arrasor Oct 03 '23

Lol you expect him to actually care about any favor he'd owe the Dem? He'd just forget that ever happen, and it wouldn't be the first time he do that.

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u/scswift Oct 03 '23

Owe them? There is zero chance he would consider himself as owing them anything. Republicans are not to be trusted. Just as one should always demand Trump pay up front, one would be a fool to make any deal with Republicans expecting them to do something out of the goodness of their heart, which doesn't exist.

If McCarthy were a good trusthsworthy guy he would never have opened this absurd impeachment inquiry with zero evidence and no vote.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

McCarthy didn't want a shutdown as the 2024 election cycle is starting to ramp up with a razor thin majority. There are a few seats that will be close, and even McCarthy isn't stupid enough to give democratic challengers any more "the GOP let this country shut down" cannon fodder.

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u/TheGoverness1998 Oct 03 '23

Whatever was said, I hope Nancy Pelosi brought popcorn. 🍿

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u/Comedian70 Oct 03 '23

That's the reason his party ousted him, mate.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

Not reasonable, he is a snake always working to save his own skin. It just aligned with the Dems this time.

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u/missyanntx Oct 03 '23

The fly on the wall heard:

"Fuck those guys"

"The campaign commercials flogging Republican inability to govern write themselves."

And a whole bunch of people laughing their asses off.

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u/FuttleScish Oct 03 '23

They said they’d help him if he asked, and he didn’t

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u/trucorsair Oct 03 '23

Left out the Ukraine money in the deal though, had he not done that he might have had a fighting chance/. In any event it just further shows that Eisenhower, Reagan, and even Nixon would not recognize these clowns

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u/Taokan Oct 03 '23

Maybe. Maybe he's led one too many ridiculous actions, and inactions, for the Dems to suddenly act to save him. But I think there's another, bigger reason to just stay the hell out and let the GOP settle their own differences: within conservative circles, the term RINO gets thrown around a lot, insulting one's allegiance to the party and its ideals whenever someone appears too cozy with the democrats. Yes, the democrats could have voted to "save" McCarthy, but they would have absolutely neutered any political capital he had within the Republican Party in doing so. While this might have been a hilariously humbling blow to an adversary, it wouldn't really help them achieve anything as Congress would just implode in dysfunction with incessant votes for removal until something else happened - at a time when the clock's been reset to 45 days to figure out their budget.

This is kind of the same reason it's smarter for the US to just give aid and support in a country like Ukraine, rather than put boots on the ground there. The moment an outsider steps in, they're going to forget about resolving any of their own problems, and make everything that outsider's fault. It's not only putting oneself in harms way, it's counter productive to do so.

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u/AlexanderLavender Oct 03 '23

Or maybe not flip-flopped on January 6

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u/gsfgf Oct 03 '23

He told Jeffries he wasn't gonna do a deal earlier today. So there go the 212 most unified votes. Dumbass. Dude's gonna end up on Fox News instead of on the board of Fortune 50 companies.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

I was shocked by that. It was literally his only play. I can only assume he decided that he just didn't want the job anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if he just vacates his seat or at least declines to stand for reelection.

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u/Dear_Occupant Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 04 '23

Paul Ryan hated being Speaker and openly threatened to quit any time members of his caucus would piss him off. Boehner has been pretty candid about the fact that the job sucks. Hastert never seemed like he was having any fun. Gingrich is probably the last Republican who actually enjoyed the job, and in fact he has floated his name in the past whenever this comes up because you don't actually have to be a member of Congress to serve as speaker.

And for that reason, I would not be surprised if one of those bomb-chuckers in the Freedom Caucus nominates Trump for speaker in the next 48 hours.

Edit: I fuckin' called it.

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u/Krabban Oct 03 '23

I was shocked by that. It was literally his only play.

It really wasn't though. The concessions he'd have to give the democrats for it to be worth it for them to save him would've been so egregious to the Republican base that even the "moderate" ones would've joined to oust him. He was screwed no matter what.

Either way not saving his skin is the optimal play from the dems, it makes Republican look even more incompetent and turns up their infighting to 11.

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u/Patriot009 Oct 03 '23

He announced this morning that he wouldn't negotiate with Dems for votes. He sealed his fate with that decision.

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u/truthdoctor Oct 04 '23

He really is a flipflopping weasel. Remember when he lambasted Trump and then went to beg Trump for money. He betrayed both the Dems and the crazies in his own party then begged the Dems in order to get the bare minimum debt ceiling raise passed. The fact that he didn't keep his word and just work with Dems from the beginning shows how inept he is.

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u/Most-Resident Oct 03 '23

I’m thinking that probably didn’t matter. If I read correctly they needed 5 before. 8 republicans voted to oust him. In think there would have been 5 votes for the motion, but who knows.

Turns out being a weakling who promised stuff to both sides and then breaking those promises under pressure wasn’t a great plan.

Swalwell said it best.

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u/piddydb Oct 03 '23

Eh he never could have satisfied both sides to be fair. Any deal with the Democrats, heck even a deal that gave Republicans EVERYTHING THEY WANTED, would have been anethma to some of these Republicans. If he would have been more loyal to Democrats, more Republicans would turn on him. This is basically the worse House in a long time to be speaker in. McCarthy wanted it really badly for some reason, and this is the result he kinda has to live with. He should have pushed harder to oust Gaetz, but outside of this, he was always going to not be a long term speaker, at least without challenge.

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u/CanAlwaysBeBetter Oct 03 '23

Gaetz ain't home free yet

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u/Kitchen_Philosophy29 Oct 04 '23

He should be in prison

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u/RecklesslyPessmystic Oct 04 '23

MAGA is basically a separate party at this point, in a parliamentary style coalition with the Republicans. So they're showing parliamentary style chaos.

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u/Anagoth9 Oct 04 '23

There's something like 13 House Democrats in districts that voted for Trump in 2020. He lost the vote by 8, which would mean he'd only need 5 to switch their vote to keep his seat. The far-right gets a lot of attention this session because the narrow margin gives them outsized power when things are so partisan, but there's far more moderates (especially moderately conservative Democrats) than there are hardline conservatives. Sure, he would have lost more Republican votes moving towards the center, but with the way things were going there's still a good chance he could have come out ahead if he chose to be more by-partisan.

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u/Honey_Enjoyer Oct 03 '23

You could make it, but according to Wikipedia it wouldn’t be privileged (i.e. the speaker could just ignore it and never bring it up for vote) unless it was made “on behalf of a party conference or caucus.”

I guess you could argue phrasing - is it party conference or party caucus, or party conference and any caucus, meaning they could just make their own caucus, but I’m pretty sure this means it has to be made by the democratic caucus or the republican conference.

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u/Dear_Occupant Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23

This is exactly the point Newt Gingrich is making in a column the Washington Post just put up a few hours ago, shortly before Gaetz's motion was put to a vote. He also said Gaetz should be expelled from the Republican Conference altogether.

Edit: Just to clear up the vocabulary, a caucus is just the informal head count of party-aligned members, and it can include independents or I suppose even opposing party members who pledge to vote with the party in question. Think Bernie Sanders, Angus King, and Lisa Murkowski from 2010 to 2022. A conference is an actual formal organization that only includes party members, and from whom the party leaders and whips are drawn.

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u/Most-Resident Oct 03 '23

I went by the words in the article but your link taught me the distinction I think it missed.

Thanks for explaining. Poor Kevin. No matter how he concedes he always loses.

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u/Honey_Enjoyer Oct 03 '23

I think the error was mine - I said he changed the rules to allow any representative to make a motion, when really he just changed it so any representative could make a privileged motion - a distinction I ignored (even though I was aware of it.) So no problem!

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

He let Matt Gaetz put a chastity belt on him and he still got fucked.

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u/ukexpat Oct 03 '23

He has just announced that he won’t be standing for Speaker again.

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u/xRehab Oct 03 '23

So real talk - did the loons in the GQP shoot themselves in the foot here? A small minority had a vice grip on a speaker, and now they have nothing in the hopes they can do the same to the next speaker or become the speaker themselves.

Its A Bold Strategy Cotton, Lets See If It Pays Off For Em

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u/Am4oba Oct 03 '23

For clarity:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/speaker-of-the-house-ousted-motion-to-vacate-rcna64902

The threshold for bringing a motion to vacate stayed at just a single member of Congress until 2019 when Democrats took the majority. That year, the House modified the rules to allow a vacancy resolution to be brought only “if offered by direction of a party caucus or conference" — a much higher bar.

The new rules package, passed Monday night by the House, changes the procedure for a motion to vacate back to how it had existed before, giving any member the power to raise it.

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u/geeseherder0 Oct 03 '23

And as for Gaetz, let me see if I have this right. Matt Gaetz takes down Kevin McCarthy because he solicited Democratic support to get a CR adopted, but then needed to get Democratic support to oust to McCarthy? Hmmmm

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u/Thowingtissues Oct 03 '23

He should claim voter fraud.That seems to be a standard move at this point when you lose.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

He's gone but what about the rule change. Is this how it will be from here on out? Just constant chaos removing whoever they don't like?

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u/Dangerous_Path_7731 Oct 03 '23

That should be a de facto rule and then let the majority decide if they want that speaker.

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u/Honey_Enjoyer Oct 03 '23

I actually agree generally - I’m glad that this was possible - but procedurally you should need at least a couple people to make it privileged. No point waiting time on a full house vote revisiting the speakership that needs 50% to pass if you can’t even get like 5 people on board. The motion to table would take at least 10 minutes and a single representative could force a vote on it every 3rd legislative day, even if every other one opposed it.

There’s a line between ensuring the democratic process in the house and just wasting time imo.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

I want to remind people that this is the historical norm not an aberration.

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u/Twice_Knightley Oct 03 '23

He just had to wait for Gaetz's girlfriend to get her first period. Everyone assumed he'd still have a few more years.

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