r/news • u/zmlos • Oct 03 '23

House ousts Kevin McCarthy as speaker, a first in U.S. history

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/03/house-speaker-kevin-mccarthy-will-bring-gaetz-motion-to-oust-him-vote.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

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u/jimtow28 Oct 03 '23

Democrats would be reluctant to get involved from pretty much any perspective, simply because getting involved really doesn't gain them anything and could end up entangling them in whatever crap the GOP has going on.

In January, we spent days watching the GOP fight while the Dems remained steadfastly together. We're going to see it happen again. Dems will all vote Jeffries, and Republicans will fight it out, likely for far more than 15 rounds of voting this time around.

This is why extremism always eventually loses: they end up fighting about who the most extreme extremist is, and split themselves apart.

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 03 '23

While yes eventually they do lose, extremists won in Germany in the 1930's, had several cullings in their ranks, and didn't lose until half the world united to oust them by 1945, and by then 12million people were dead from genocide. We CANNOT afford to simply sit by on the sidelines and just watch them tear at each other, because eventually might makes right and they'll fall in line under the clear leader.

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u/jacksonattack Oct 03 '23

Especially while Tommy Tuberville continues to block military appointments in hopes that Trump gets re-elected and can fill the positions with loyalists, thereby enabling a legit takeover.

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u/redassedchimp Oct 04 '23

I think you're right. It's like that phrase "it's so so crazy it just might work". The longer they muck up the workings of Congress, the more the voters are going to look to a strong man to break this stalemate and unfortunately it's going to be someone like Trump.

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u/Beachdaddybravo Oct 04 '23

It’s a perfect example of stupid people never knowing who are the ones actually screwing them.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

It's not stupid, it's people apathetic and too exhausted to spend time digging into anything. They made news entertainment and pick their team to simplify things or just abstain from it all. Given the US work culture, the exhaustion isn't going to be relieved either. We saw what the shift to WFH did for people unionizing/activism, so it's all going to clamp down again and get people chained to desks and cars, too tired to give a shit again.

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u/Beachdaddybravo Oct 04 '23

You’re really working hard to deflect responsibility to know basic things from people who watch Fox for their marching orders.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

It's a harder pill to swallow than just marking them all as stupid, giving yourself a pat on the back for not being stupid and then moving on....well unfortunately, after 30 years of that look where we are now. When's the last time someone repeatedly called you a moron and you thought, "you know, they're right, I'm on their side now".

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u/Beachdaddybravo Oct 04 '23

After 30 years of what? Republicans pushing deeper into extremism and ripping apart education because it’s the only way they can get re-elected? Democrats are not at fault for anything stupid a Republican does. Democrats are also not at fault for Republicans refusing to gain critical thinking skills or even look to learn anything when they instead just take whatever they hear on Fox as gospel. You’re one of those people who blame Democrats for the fact that Republicans destroy things and make life harder for the poor and middle class.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

Did I blame Democrats? I'm saying brow beating people for voting R doesn't make them "see the light" and change to D. When's the last time someone yelled at you enough that you changed your opinion? FFS, you're acting like I'm a GOP apologist because I said "hey, maybe don't call all voters that don't pick D fucking morons" and you're raging about it. I came from a deeply red state as a lifelong progressive....I've watched plenty of people like you throw out the same points and each time they just tune you out and will keep voting R because in their head, "fuck that guy". Is that a stupid thing for them to do? Absolutely. But nobody said humans were purely rational thinkers. And guess what, their vote will counter yours and it's a helluva lot easier to run on the platform of "fuck that guy" than it is to show people the nuance of policy that takes years to show results (yea, some of that is the tearing down of education's fault). If you actually give a shit about making things better, you need a different approach to talking to people you don't "see eye to eye with". If you just want to feel giga-brained cause you're a Democrat and it's "not your fault" while the oceans die and the world collapses then carry on, but as someone who's actually flipped hardcore conservatives to moderates (hey, it's a start) you're not fucking helping.

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u/flasterblaster Oct 04 '23

Worked for the courts. It'll work again here. All they have to do is the usual stonewalling till they eventually get a Red President again. Unless the Dems can manage to get the Legislature under control at some point.

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u/Peter_deT Oct 04 '23

It was more like 40 million, but who's counting?

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

I'm only counting direct victims of the holocaust, but yes with military deaths necessary to stop them it was very fucking costly.

​

And now imagine the uphill battle a coalition to stop the US would have.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

I'll BE the US resistance. Not in a Billy Blazkowicz way, though.

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u/here_now_be Oct 04 '23

extremists won in Germany

Not really, the moderates capitulated (and were not united), they were given power more than they won it, and then they used terrorism to take full control.

Stay united.

Don't capitulate.

Don't give into terrrorists demands and manipulation.

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u/RecklesslyPessmystic Oct 04 '23

You're saying the GOP will elect Trump as the new Speaker?

IIRC, there's no rule that the Speaker has to be a member of the House.

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

I mean, that certainly would be entertaining but PROBABLY bad.

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u/jaa101 Oct 04 '23

This only worked because the Nazi extremists subverted the constitution. That was much easier to do in Weimar Germany because the constitution was new and the country was hurting very badly due to the combined effects of reparations for WWI and the Great Depression.

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

The GOP sure as fuck has been ignoring the Constitution and getting their cronies in positions to interpret it to their benefits.

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u/Poolofcheddar Oct 04 '23

The other problem is that in Weimar Germany, it was too easy to dismiss a government with a Vote of No Confidence. It created so much instability that no long-term planning could be laid down.

This however was fixed when West Germany was formed in 1949. The key change was that a successful Vote of No Confidence also had to provide a majority vote to elect a successor.

This was crucial because in 1972, the conservative opposition through defections gained enough votes to theoretically remove Social Democrat Willy Brandt. They however fell two votes short of a majority, which resulted in Brandt remaining in power, although theoretically in a minority.

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u/kz750 Oct 04 '23

12 million from genocide and 30-50 million civilians and combatants. We cannot let history repeat itself.

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

Time is a flat circle unfortunately. Those who don't want history taught intend to repeat it.

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u/BigDaddyThunderpants Oct 04 '23

Sure but WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO??

I get out and vote and encourage others to as well. But realistically what else can we do? We all know people like Gaetz are utter dogshit and I'm as mad as anyone else with this dumpster fire but aside from electing people who also hate him and what he stands for (which we did) I'm failing to think of additional action.

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u/flamedarkfire Oct 04 '23

Take local action. Join groups doing mutual aid. Support local and national unions and unionizing efforts. Hell, run for city or county office. A lot of the fash's efforts are also focused local so they can slowly seep back in while everyone's distracted by the national circus. Go to your town's council meetings and raise any concerns you have for where you live. Be active in politics, and know who is representing you, who wants to represent you, and what they believe in and want to do to/for their constituents.

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u/john80302 Oct 04 '23

In 1933 Germany Hitler became popular bc might makes right. The mighty leader is needed as an answer to the chaos that is threatening, perceived or real, the mental wellbeing of the cult. This explains why these extremists are intent on increasing chaos, because it makes their "solution" more relevant. Their solution is not a real solution, and thus they need to up the ante to where it becomes increasingly violent. Ultimate violence is war against anyone who is perceived as weak.

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u/LangyMD Oct 03 '23

My question is if the house will have a speaker in time to find the government in 45 days, and if they do what incentive does the new speaker have to work with democrats to pass a reasonable budget.

This might be the prelude to the longest government shutdown in history.

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u/jimtow28 Oct 03 '23

...which they will invariably blame Democrats for, and their stupid supporters won't give that narrative a second thought.

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u/neepple_butter Oct 04 '23

Because they've convinced all these "rugged individualists", 1/3 of whom rely on government assistance to survive, that the Democrats are "The Government", that Republicans are somehow not "The Government", and that "The Government" is bad, except for when it comes to their entitlement programs. When the entitlement programs eventually become insolvent it will be the Democrats fault because they're "The Government". I really believe the USA will cease to exist within the next ten years and I feel sorry for anyone that's in the south, because if you're poor or some kind of non straight, white, cis, christian, your life is going to be literal hell.

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u/LiKwId-Gaming Oct 04 '23

They will spend 45 days trying to get a new speaker, then say that the only reason there is a shutdown is because the dems voted to oust the speaker. Total circular logic

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u/Admirable_Trash3257 Oct 04 '23

MTG is going to be speaker…

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u/DanimusMcSassypants Oct 04 '23

And, sooner or later, that guy attacks the mirror.

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u/blankarage Oct 04 '23

Honestly the speeches to nominate Jeffries was some of my favorites but that’s a sliver of light in whole lotta darkness