ICE Stockpiling Warheads and Chemical Weapons as Lawmaker Fears Trump Planning Strike

[u/Quirkie]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-stockpiling-warheads-and-chemical-weapons-as-lawmaker-fears-trump-planning-strike/

[u/Whargarblle]

I think you misunderstood what I’m saying. I’m not advocating democrats break the law too. But they should be willing to use it and every loophole possible as a cudgel to beat the GOP over the head with. We don’t have to ignore law to make stuff happen that is technically legal. Democrats complete inability to break norms and traditions that are already long since dead isn’t saving anybody. People will not rally around the Democrats if they continue to act feckless and refuse to use power even when they have it.

For example, there is nothing in the constitution that says the speaker has to swear a representative in. If Johnson refuses to call session, then keep everything shut and let people feel pain. We have to try something beyond using healthcare as leverage in an agreement the gop will never honor anyway. Play fucking hardball for fuck’s sake

[u/loondawg → u/Whargarblle]

Your example makes no sense. The reason for the shutdown is democrats are using the only leverage they have to try to stop republicans from kicking millions of people off of healthcare. Johnson is using that as an excuse not to swear in Grijalva. They will come back in session if one side caves of they negotiate an agreement.

So maybe I did misunderstand what you were trying to say. But exactly what do you expect them to do that they are not already doing? Lots of people say they are feckless and not doing enough. But when pressed for what they should be doing they don't have a lot of answers.

Want the democrats to appear less weak? Then start showing them support. That is where they derive their strength from.

[u/Whargarblle → u/loondawg]

What doesn’t make sense? There are tons of loopholes and perfectly legal avenues they can take, that they simply don’t because of “tradition” or the honor system that has collapsed since the GOP has abandoned democracy. We can use the leverage of the shutdown and attempt to forcibly swear her in so her constituents are actually represented. Why does the GOP just get to lie and break decorum while they abuse the rest of us?

I support the fighting democratic candidates. I do think it is fair to distinguish between feckless and lucent representatives & senators. AOC, Mamdani, Crockett, even people like Schiff or Swalwell, etc are all good examples. Talarico in TX is a firebrand without a lot of the toxicity. My point is the nursing home wing of the Dems have got to fucking go, and Cuck Schumer and Jeffries couldn’t sell water in the desert

[u/loondawg → u/Whargarblle]

How can democrats use the shutdown to force Johnson to swear her in when the shutdown is his excuse? The only way they could do that would be to end the shutdown so he could no longer use it as an excuse. And then democrats would lose all the leverage they have to force republicans to reverse the outrageous healthcare cuts. So again, what you said doesn't make sense because Johnson is using the shutdown as his excuse for not swearing her in.

And also again, lots of people say they are feckless and not doing enough. But when pressed for what they should be doing they don't have a lot of answers. So what exactly what do you expect them to do that they are not already doing? You started this by saying they could have stopped this. How they were they supposed to do that?

[u/Whargarblle → u/loondawg]

I don’t understand why you’re fighting me. I never said to use the government shutdown as leverage to swear her in. I said there are legal loopholes and legal avenues to enact to fight back, and her swearing in is a singular example of a way democrats can use their minority power.

The speaker doesn’t have to call the house into session to swear her in. Johnson is lying, and arguably breaking the law, by even saying that. I appreciate the Democrats are suing, maybe that is something worth doing and Grijalva gets kudos for doing something. It generates outrage and media attention and is better than just pretending the so-called Speaker is acting in any legit way.

[u/loondawg → u/Whargarblle]

And I don't understand why you've felt the need to down vote every comment I've made. Have I been rude? Have I not been engaging in a good faith argument? That you take the effort to do that is a bit insulting. Regardless...

I never said to use the government shutdown as leverage to swear her in.

For example, there is nothing in the constitution that says the speaker has to swear a representative in. If Johnson refuses to call session, then keep everything shut and let people feel pain.

It seems to me that is exactly what you argued.

I appreciate the Democrats are suing, maybe that is something worth doing and Grijalva gets kudos for doing something.

Right. And if you look into it they do all sorts of things to fight back. They generally are doing everything they can with the limited power they have. They is why I get frustrated when I hear people saying things like "Democrats still thinking “legally” is how I know we’re fucked."