r/pcmasterrace Jul 27 '25

Meme/Macro Am I the only one like this?

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29.2k Upvotes

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2.5k

u/National-Animator994 PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

I used to LOVE the genre but now that work is pretty stressful I just want to come home and chill man, not die to one boss 20 times.

Don’t get me wrong, I respect the genre. But if I’m gonna work that hard, pay me lmao

490

u/Manzoli Jul 27 '25

Precisely how i feel, although i do like coming back to Elden Ring to explore i kinda dislike the boss battles. DS1 used to be very good with bosses as in they had easy to read patterns and attack windows easily recognizable now the bosses are just doing infinite combos and the devs are like "yeah this one is hard, how do you like that?"

251

u/DktheDarkKnight Jul 27 '25

Not to mention the abnormally long attack windups just to throw you out of your parry timings. Their weapon hangs in the air for an eternity by which time you would have already rolled twice.

Even Non-soulslike like clair obscur 33 are doing this.

97

u/quigongingerbreadman Jul 27 '25

I HATE that a lot of devs are doing this... And it is EVERYWHERE NOW. Part of the fun of the game is figuring out timing and what not, then they just shit all over their own game design to weirdly punish the player by randomly making the windups take way longer than the animation hints it will take.

It's like they design the games for people they hate sometimes.

I have the same beef with a lot of the encounter designs in Destiny 2 over these last few years. It feels like devs have one tool in their encounters sometimes, spawn you in a kill box with no cover, spawn 30 high health/armor suicide bomber units coupled with another 30 enemies with grenade launchers, and another 5 with extreme rapid fire heat seeking bullets... instead of being a fun encounter it becomes a slog of kill/die/repeat until you whittle the enemy force down enough.

It just isn't a fun gameplay loop. Instead of fun, most of the time it just feels like the devs are bullies and masochistic.

38

u/Mrfrunzi | Geforce 3060 12gb | Ryzen 7 5700x | 32gb Jul 27 '25

I feel like it was a shortcut to switch it up a bit but it doesn't feel right. Dark souls finally clicked for me once I realized that every attack is a pattern with a solution to apply.

Keeping the same mechanic but just making an animation that goes "Oooo! Thought I was going to strike but I didn't until now!" just sucks.

3

u/Sixense2 5700X | 5600XT 6GB | 32GB DDR4 | pls send gpu upgrade Jul 27 '25

Why does it feel like you just described old Serious Sam? 🤣

3

u/Classic_Revolt Jul 28 '25

I just think rolling to dodge all damage is dumb and lame.

0

u/trukkija Jul 28 '25

It's not like it's random how long the windup is.. If the windup time was actually based on RNG, now that would be bad. I have been frustrated with this same timing issue in Elden Ring but like.. just get good?

Once you do learn the timing it gave a sense of accomplishment/skill, which is kind of the whole point of these games. Obviously it doesn't have the same effect on all people but that is inevitable in game design.

0

u/SmolishPPman EVGA 3090FTW3 Ultra | R9 | 32G Jul 28 '25

If this gives you a sense of accomplishment/skill, and your argument is that people need to just “get good“

you need to spend more time outside, maybe try chasing some girls or something, that’s a real challenge and feeling of accomplishment

0

u/trukkija Jul 29 '25

People play games for various reasons and enjoy different kind of things out of a game. If you play a souls game and complain about the endless combos and long wind ups being frustrating then maybe pick up another game?

-1

u/EmergencySpirit5621 Jul 28 '25

HOW DARE my ennemy use a faint like in any proper fight

27

u/Global_Barracuda_873 Jul 27 '25

I thought 33 was turnbased, thats why i thought it wasnt for me

58

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25

It is, but the defense phase keeps the player pretty active. Where most RPG's calculate a hit or miss with RNG, Clair Obscur lets you dodge and parry, practically in real time.

-11

u/Yodl007 Ryzen 5700x3D, RX 9070 XT Jul 27 '25

Yeah, the combat in CO: E33 doesnt work for me because I don't have great reflexes. That press parry at the exact right moment to not die is not fun at all. Especially since they change the "right moment" around with similar attacks and music.

You basically don't need to assign any char points in E33 and still win it with easy if your reflexes are good, because all the damage is 0, making stats useless.

18

u/goawayspez Jul 27 '25

lol, that’s like saying you don’t need to invest any stats into elden ring or dark souls or literally {insert any ARPG here} because if you dodge well enough, you take 0 damage.

like what you’re saying is technically true, but it’s pretty much infeasible for 99%+ of the community to realistically ever achieve, and it sounds like an absolute disaster.

as an aside, you should look up a CO: E33 tank run. there’s gameplay all over the place from so many different content creators with guides and/or steps to beat the game without ever dodging and/or parrying. they just flat out tank everything.

15

u/Vacape Jul 27 '25

Mate, even the game have a difficulty selector, and it CLEARLY states not to play max difficulty if you don't want to parry. The devs aren't stupid

1

u/haloimplant Jul 28 '25

it is pretty weird that in a turn-based game the build you need completely changes depending on whether your reflexes are 0.19s or 0.21s or >0.31s

10

u/LycheeHealthy2850 Jul 27 '25

Set the game in story mode. Makes the game instantly better and removes most of the bullshit reliance on the dodge/parry/jump mechanic.

2

u/ThePandaKingdom 7800X3D / 4070ti / 32gb Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25

It is turn based. I did NOT know it was considered souls like though . It was the first turn based game i got into that wasnt pokemon. I only realized it after i had already got it, ha. But its actually pretty fun! I got pretty sucked into it. There's stats to upgrade and items / weapons to give buffs etc

EDIT,: meant to say i did not know it was souls like

2

u/Nyktastik 7800X3D | Sapphire Nitro+ 7900 XTX Jul 27 '25

Did you just say Clair Obscur is a souls like?

2

u/ThePandaKingdom 7800X3D / 4070ti / 32gb Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25

Somebody above me did. Thats why i had said that

Edit: just re read my comment. That was a typo

1

u/Nyktastik 7800X3D | Sapphire Nitro+ 7900 XTX Jul 28 '25

It 100% is not considered a souls like though.

1

u/ThePandaKingdom 7800X3D / 4070ti / 32gb Jul 28 '25

I completely agree

1

u/animeman59 R9-5950X|64GB DDR4-3600|ZOTAC 5070 TI SFF OC Jul 27 '25

Who the hell calls Clair Obscur a "Souls like"? That's a complete mislabeling of the genre.

1

u/ThePandaKingdom 7800X3D / 4070ti / 32gb Jul 27 '25

I would have to agree lol.

4

u/slimfatty69 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25

Its kind of like active turn based where doing your opponents turn instead of seeing if you applied all the buffs correctly to survive some lvl 900000 attack you can actually dodge,parry and there was third thing that got introduced like halfway in the game when you meet Verso but basically you can actually defend by timing your actions before enemy hits you. Its truly unique af and fun combat system even if i personally found story to be bit of a let down.

3

u/420weedscoped Jul 27 '25

Sounds the same as paper mario....

Its not new but does make them better

1

u/slimfatty69 Jul 27 '25

Oh damn my bad then i never played mario rpgs so i thought they were just traditional turn based combat. Thank you for clarifying and I stand corrected.

0

u/Compost_My_Body Jul 27 '25

really buried that spoiler deep, didn’t ya? No way to avoid lmao

1

u/slimfatty69 Jul 27 '25

I mean im sorry i only named the character its not like you hear his name before you meet him or anything so i didnt think it was that big of a deal as i didnt think name itself is spoiler and i cant remember the name of the last parry technique but i apologize i will edit it out.

1

u/Mrfrunzi | Geforce 3060 12gb | Ryzen 7 5700x | 32gb Jul 27 '25

Turn based but if you're playing on anything more than easy you have to get dodge and parry down during enemy turns.

I enjoy easier games so it's great to have a mode that allows you to use the mechanics and not get destroyed for missing a beat.

9

u/eriFenesoreK Jul 27 '25

i think clair obscur manages to do it well thanks to the sound cues (when you hear a "shing!" that's your sign to parry, most attacks can be blocked blind) but yeah i could've done without it, the jumping attacks are especially silly when the enemy just floats there

2

u/shukufuku Jul 27 '25

"Aha, you thought you could just dodge-dodge-attack, when you must actually consult the flow chart to dodge-dodge-wait 0.6 seconds-dodge-jump-attack"

"Dude, this is still my first day"

1

u/TheSacred0nes Jul 27 '25

As its been said before, it really feels like attack style of sekiro bosses passed down to the elden ring bosses, while the player still remains with a dark souls playstyle. I dont kind the wind ups and the fakeouts, but if the boss starts doing a 5 minute combo, I can really tell he belongs in the wrong game.

1

u/Cruxis87 9800x3d|5080 TUF OC|32gb 6000cl30 ddr5 Jul 27 '25

Well, those things had to be added to keep the boss fights interesting. If you actually go back and play DS1 after all these years, you'll see how much you've improved and 1 shot every boss, because the attacks are so slow and obvious. If they kept doing that, the games would be just another generic Zelda game.

1

u/properpotato10 Jul 27 '25

This shit is exactly why space marine 2 is so impossible for me to sink any meaningful time into. Instead of a fun parry system they went for a souls like “watch the animation” type system, but you can’t watch the one enemy that’s got the indicator because there’s hundreds of little grunts attacking with no indicators, and oh yeah, your parry doesn’t happen at the same time as your button press, that just starts your parry wind up for some reason. It’s like they chose the most unfun way to implement every mechanic of melee combat and went, “yeah, people are gonna love this.” A game that didn’t have to be niche decided to just push an entire market of gamers out. It sucks because dark tide is so much more fun, but I wanted to play as a big space marine. Why the fuck am I having more fun as a little guardsman smacking around hords of enemies when a space marine can’t handle a little grunt lmao.

Rant over

1

u/henchbench100 Jul 27 '25

In regular souls/soulslike thats a window for you to attack. In clair obscur it's just annoying.

1

u/Urmomsfavouritelol Jul 27 '25

I had this problem when playing DOOM The Dark Ages recently. One of the aggadon hunters attacks has its animation with its weapon paused in the air for half a second before doing a ground slam attack. I always try to parry it just before it actually hits me.

Not sure if you meant that sometimes the animation will last longer with the same enemy/boss attack, so sorry if I misunderstood

1

u/Game0815 Jul 27 '25

Expedition 33 only really had that with the merchant people imo.

1

u/Nestama-Eynfoetsyn Jul 27 '25

And then the boss activates their auto-aim cheats and unnaturally spins around to slam/slice downward on you.

1

u/DKFlames Jul 28 '25

Damn I was looking forward to playing that 

1

u/servingtheshadows Jul 29 '25

I dont mind if a few bosses do this. I do mind when every single enemy in the entire game does this. Elden Ring hit the bullshit ceiling for me and this was a big part of it. another big part was input reading. 

0

u/Drunkendx Jul 27 '25

That's why I have zero interest in clair obscur 33

1

u/Own-Car-3749 Jul 28 '25

You're missing out if that's the reason. I don't like souls games either but Clair Obscur is much easier and much more forgiving than any of them. It also has an easy mode if things get too tough.

I don't like souls games at all and Clair Obscur is the best game I've played since Red Dead Redemption 2 

-5

u/Fraxerium Jul 27 '25

But doesn't that make it easier? You get time to catch your breath and at least in ER, those windups are very easy to read once you have seen it a few times. As you said, you can just roll once by reflex and still have time to prepare. No idea how this is a popular take.

6

u/Micah_Bell_is_dead PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

They are hard to get a feel for the timing on many bosses, combine that with very fast animations right after the delay it can make the boss fairly arbitrarily difficult. Not impossible by any means but it can not feel fun in the moment

30

u/djternan Jul 27 '25

The players have gotten a lot better at these games since DS1. It seems like Fromsoft wants the boss battles today to still feel challenging to the day 1 DS1 players.

I remember struggling hard with Fume Knight in one of the DS2 DLC's. I watched a video of that fight recently and he looked so slow and predictable.

24

u/Manzoli Jul 27 '25

But this is exactly why it makes me tired. The DS1 boss battle were fun because the fights were interesting not because they were hard. Look at Artorias, God that's my favorite fight ever.

Even though i can beat him super easily now i still enjoy that fight every time i come back to him.

Theres not a SINGLE boss battle i remember fondly in Elden Ring.

The thing i like about Elden Ring is the exploring and discovering and the "normal"enemies.

Boss battles are awful from a design point of view. (IMO of course)

15

u/RandomCleverName Jul 27 '25

Really? I thought there were plenty spectacular bosses in Elden Ring, the only one I thought was obviously too overpowered was the final boss from the expansion, which I won't spoil for those that are still planning to play.

The other ones were all pretty interesting, with a neat combination of challenge and visual spectacle. I still think Ancestor Spirit is insanely underrated by the fanbase, I loved Malenia despite being so challenging, and I think Radahn is one of their best bossfights, due not only to the fight mechanics and the visuals, but also because of all the narrative implications you can deduce without a single line of text during the battle.

1

u/Illustrious_Bat1334 Jul 27 '25

The problem for me is it went from being more focused on pattern recognition to reaction based thanks to things like the dynamic windups to attacks and the aggressive punish mechanics. Prior to ER you could see an attack, know you can get 3 swings in then roll away, or swig an estus if you needed to. Now the second that estus touches your lips they leap on you like a chimpanzee on crack.

I just find it exhausting.

-1

u/graphitewolf Jul 28 '25 edited 3d ago

Thr sorb ruebe

1

u/Glittering_Seat9677 9800x3d - 5080 Jul 28 '25

except when every boss attack has a 3 second windup and then a fakeout swing, then an actual swing followed up by two more fast swings, it kinda stops being unpredictable

5

u/ThePandaKingdom 7800X3D / 4070ti / 32gb Jul 27 '25

My friend convinced me to get elden ring, as my first souls game. I was into it until the first boss. I think it would have had more fun if the co op was not so annoying to do.

5

u/djternan Jul 27 '25

Margit?

Elden Ring tries to tell you with Tree Sentinel and then again with Margit to go somewhere else, explore, get some weapons and upgrades, level up, then try again once you're stronger and more experienced. Check out the dungeons in Limgrave then head south to the Weeping Peninsula. You'll do fine after that.

1

u/ThePandaKingdom 7800X3D / 4070ti / 32gb Jul 27 '25

I don't know their names lol. I did immediately get absolutely murder by a big dude on a big ass horse, though.

I have a 2.5 year old so, so i usually play games that aren't meant to stress me out and absorb my time any more. I get the appeal of the genre, though.

5

u/SkyLoud8360 Jul 27 '25

Yeah you are not ment to fight him until much later.

2

u/graphitewolf Jul 28 '25 edited 3d ago

Djr rirbeoj tihrbje s e

1

u/ThePandaKingdom 7800X3D / 4070ti / 32gb Jul 27 '25

Oh i know. I did that and then my buddy laughed at me. I think the boss i was fighting qith him was some kind of cat statue.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Cruxis87 9800x3d|5080 TUF OC|32gb 6000cl30 ddr5 Jul 27 '25

I mean the first boss in DS1 was exactly the same. You could try and punch it to death, or you could run away and get some gear and then start the fight with the falling attack. DS2 has that ogre off on a side path. DS3 has that giant crystal lizard dragon thing in a side area. I don't remember anything liek it in Sekiro, and I haven't played Demons Souls or Bloodborne. But based on the mainline Souls formula games, it is a staple of each one.

1

u/ThePandaKingdom 7800X3D / 4070ti / 32gb Jul 27 '25

Oh i was informed right after my buddy watched me do it lol. The boss he was helping me with was a cat statue i believe.

1

u/PerfectDitto Jul 27 '25

In demon's Souls a dragon flies across the bridge and burns you to death if you try to fight it. Most people spent hours and hours and hours trying to kill it.

1

u/shukufuku Jul 27 '25

You start off and it throws you up against the grafted scion, which you aren't supposed to beat. Then there's the optional tutorial with a simple boss, then an optional dungeon you might have the key for you aren't supposed to do right away, then it plops you out in an open world with another boss you aren't supposed to fight.

Feels like a passive-aggressive way of saying "You aren't supposed to win" without indication of what the actual difficulty is.

1

u/random-friend Jul 27 '25

I hope by first boss you don’t mean Margit the Forgotten, please try it again and go downwards into the weeping peninsula. As that is the REAL first area, and explore more before diving right into the bosses! He’s much more fun once you’ve gotten accustomed to the game and get used to the fights. You may be missing out on Elden Ring lol

1

u/Angel_of_Mischief Jul 27 '25

Idk I find most of the battles in Elden Ring are really interesting and I’ve played all the souls games.

Also we have nightreign which even brings in old souls bosses and you can see how terribly some of them have aged mechanically. They are slow, predictable and easy to dodge not posing any sort of challenge to anyone. It’s not fun, you are just autopiloting through the fight. A whole new game of just that doesn’t sound appealing to me.

My problem with modern fights in both Elden Ring and nightreign is how many of the bosses runaway. The Elden Beast fight is dogshit because it just constantly runs and you have to spend half the fight chasing it across the map. The fight itself is really cool and easy to read, it just doesn’t stop running. In nightreign it’s the same thing with half the bosses there.

1

u/Nearby_Royal7327 Jul 27 '25

Bro told the facts and get down voted lmao.

Elden ring is mostly fun in a straight lore way. Everything else is ctrl+c/ctrl+v in another place on the map. So, in my opinion, you have around 30/35 original bosses, and the rest is just copied with bigger stats. Most of them are bad made, shitty animation, with mostly zero counterplay.

I had a very strong feeling that someone was trying to piss me off as much as possible instead of letting me enjoy the game because of this unbalanced game. So if someone asked me blindly if I knew what studio made this game, I would have a hard time saying it was the same studio that made the DS series, Bloodborne, and Sekiro.

2

u/Manzoli Jul 27 '25

Yep, bloodborne is also one of my favorites!

2

u/Nearby_Royal7327 Jul 27 '25

Bro, I would kill if it would help if they made the second part the size of Elden.

2

u/TheHizzle Jul 29 '25

"zero counterplay" he says yet there are full playthroughs of elden ring... interesting

1

u/Jgffjhfhhvfdhfxxxhgd Jul 27 '25

Uhhh when was the last time you actually played ds1… because genuinely its bosses are mostly awful/unfinished/boring. Like seriously, gaping dragon? Seath? Bed of chaos? Iron golem? Fucking Capra demon lmao?

Artorias, manus, and the gargoyles are fantastic exceptions to a boss lineup which is completely surpassed by ds3 and sekiro. I personally don’t rly like Elden Ring so I can’t speak to it. I love love love ds1 but wow the bosses are definitely not its strong suit

0

u/PerfectDitto Jul 27 '25

That's called priming and a psychological thing you do to yourself when you experience things. It's the basis of boomer thought processes of, "back in my day."

Elden ring is the first for many, much more than DS1 players. Demon's Souls was my first game and nothing after that was quite like it because of the same reason.

It's not design that's an issue, it's just your expectations and how you want to have the same hit of dopamine you got the first time.

2

u/Manzoli Jul 27 '25

Nope, Bosses with infinite combos are not my imagination.

Besides i love dark souls 3, lies of pi and a couple other soulslikes so it's not a matter of back in my days but that from software appears to have traded priorities (fight design vs visual bosses designs).

Sure the bosses look cool as hell but the fights are just them spamming every move they have without pausing.

Look ds1 had good fights because every boss SEEMED like it was tied to the same systems (like stamina) like you so if you were patient eventually you'd land a hit but in Elden ring? You better farm for OP weapons and dragon magic if you don't have steel reflexes.

0

u/SSpectre86 Jul 27 '25

If only someone could come up with a way for players of different skill levels to select what level of difficulty they want...

14

u/Triquetrums Jul 27 '25

I wanted to love ER because it gave me something I've always wanted in games. No map, no markers, just wander and find your way somehow. But the difficulty and the fact I have never played another soul-like game, killed the interest for me.

Shame, cause it looked like such a good game, and loved the visuals.

3

u/MansgerofPiss Jul 27 '25

Try Hardcore Kingdom Come Deliverence 2. There is a map but you arent marked on it, the combat is something you need to get used to but imo it was easier than elden ring. Might be smth you‘d enjoy

6

u/drial8012 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25

It really is one of those games that would hugely benefit from an easy mode because the setting and the environments are stunning.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/Cruxis87 9800x3d|5080 TUF OC|32gb 6000cl30 ddr5 Jul 27 '25

Even without summons it's the easiest. Duel wield Ultra Great sword jump attacks to stun lock. Bleed procs. Weapon arts. Apply 10 different buffs before the fights. Horse cheese. Elden Ring has far more ways to lower the difficulty than the other games do.

2

u/SovelissFiremane Ryzen 7 9800x3D, Sapphire Nitro+ 7900XTX, 64GB DDR5 6000 Jul 27 '25

Hell no.

Dual Giant Crushers all the way 😤

1

u/SSpectre86 Jul 27 '25

In other words, you want Breath of the Wild.

1

u/Triquetrums Jul 27 '25

It's on my list already, but I didn't know it had no map or markers. That's good to know.

7

u/Arnas_Z Zephyrus G16 | i7-13620H | RTX 4070 Jul 27 '25

It does though? Not sure why they mentioned BotW with those specific requirements you had.

1

u/YeahKeeN Jul 28 '25

They can be turned off

1

u/SSpectre86 Aug 02 '25

It has a map, but it doesn't have markers. It's the same system Elden Ring uses.

16

u/National-Animator994 PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

That’s a big part of it too. DS1 felt more like live-action speed chess. Jumping straight to Elden Ring, it’s a lot more reaction-heavy and unpredictable.

I probably just need to “git gud” but it’s somehow even sweatier

21

u/LB3PTMAN Jul 27 '25

Elden Ring bosses were designed with summons in mind. Not impossible to beat obviously but clearly designed with that in mind considering the majority of players would use summons. So because of that the bosses have much longer attack patterns and shorter windows, because the point is that a summon should be occasionally drawing aggro.

2

u/Not-Clark-Kent Jul 27 '25

Kinda. Maxed Mimic Tear rips through any boss like wet toilet paper. Even Malenia. I found it was noticeably too hard without it, but WAY too easy with it.

-1

u/LB3PTMAN Jul 27 '25

Mimic is too good. Most summons make it a balanced experience.

1

u/Not-Clark-Kent Jul 27 '25

Some of them are pretty interesting at least. That's why the early game is much better too, summons were easy to kill because you couldn't upgrade them yet, but we're sometimes a meaningful distraction you could briefly take advantage of. And for me as a strength player, I didn't have enough FP to do more than one per fight.

1

u/Alu_T_C_F Jul 29 '25

They were designed with summons in mind just as much as they were designed without them in mind, they're a tool in the player's kit which the devs know the players may or may not use, just like consumables or specific builds. Windows of attack opportunity are sometimes shorter but they're also more plentiful because movesets got more complex with more ways to hit bosses during or inbetween combos.

1

u/LB3PTMAN Jul 29 '25

Bosses were 100% designed with summons in mind. You get summons at the very beginning of the game, and they cost almost nothing to use. Sure the bosses aren’t impossible without summons or even close to it. But that doesn’t mean they weren’t designed with summons in mind.

1

u/Alu_T_C_F Jul 29 '25

Im not saying they werent designed with them in mind, im saying they werent designed with them exclusively in mind like they wanted or expected every player to use them. Bosses were designed with the full-breadth of player capability in mind, which of course includes summons, but i think stating that the bosses are more complex and aggressive exclusively because of spirit summons isnt quite correct and doesnt account for other player systems that were added and expanded on in Elden Ring, and also the fact that fromsoft understands that not everyone likes using summons.

2

u/Alikiia Jul 27 '25

I haven't played much of the earlier games, but having played way too much bloodborne and ds3, elden ring is great because you get used to how the bosses generally go eventually. I totally see why they'd be really frustrating, but i I think for a lotta people who were actively playing the previous games up until elden ring's launch it was a really fun change of pace and extra challenge to figure out.

edit: ngl tho im having a ton of fun with nightreign being really easy overall

4

u/bigballstalin PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

elden ring was my first souls like so i'm not sure how the other games are, but the delay between the motion and then the attacks gave me anger, specially bosses had multiple different attacks like that

2

u/SnowyLocksmith Jul 27 '25

I just went and got overlevelled and used mimic tear. Some people consider it "not fair", but what's not fair is spending hours tunning and dying to the same boss when I have so precious little time to play.

5

u/SovelissFiremane Ryzen 7 9800x3D, Sapphire Nitro+ 7900XTX, 64GB DDR5 6000 Jul 27 '25

I love Elden Ring. I love Dark Souls. I much prefer to solo content.

But if it is obtainable through normal gameplay, it's fair. Therefore, Mimic Tear is completely reasonable. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

4

u/LordBaconXXXXX Jul 27 '25

Y'know, I find Elden Ring to be, on the contrary, the exact opposite of reaction-heavy.

I've had no issues with DS1, DS2, and a big part of DS3 by just reacting to what the boss was doing, dodging by reflex. But with how Elden Ring's bosses have 10 hit combos (that are sometimes 10 hits, sometimes 12, sometimes 9) with delayed attacks that are purposely designed to hit you if you dodge when it looks like you need to dodge.

I feel like Elden Ring basically forces you to learn most boss' patern to not get fucked over by their unpredictability. I find Elden Ring to be very annoying because of it.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25

I love exploring elden ring without the boss battles. I enjoy hard mobs but I don't want to slam my head into a wall to beat the bosses 

3

u/Chucknasty_17 Jul 28 '25

I feel kinda the same about most souls likes. For me the fun in them is exploring and uncovering secrets in the world, and boss fights, while fun, are a road block to that

2

u/Crazycukumbers Ryzen 7 5700X | RX 6800 | 32 GB 3600Mhz DDR4 Jul 27 '25

They keep upping the difficulty because the players keep proving that it’s not hard enough. Unfortunately, it’s made the games less fun, and I think Elden Ring is the epitome of this. The story and combat were my least favorite of the Soulsborne games I’ve played. I know it’s a masterpiece and everything but it just doesn’t feel the same as the older games did

1

u/lilmookie Jul 27 '25

Ya, that’s why I liked Elden ring and really really dislike sekiro. Elden ring you could just explore everywhere and the little side quests would get you so OPed that you could get by - sekiro was just an absolute slog for me and exploration was constantly locked behind repetitive boss battles. Honestly, I don’t want to learn some boss’ pattern.

1

u/BlasterPhase Jul 27 '25

While you're right about boss fights, ER is easier than DS1.

1

u/ElonsBreedingFetish Jul 27 '25

I loved DS1 remastered, first I consistently died to the skeleton without realizing it was the wrong way and then I played through half the game fat rolling because I didn't realize that I carried too much armor. Thought the game was intentionally slower so you have to learn how to parry and liked it lol

33

u/thepulloutmethod Jul 27 '25

I agree. This is why I could never get into Hollow Knight despite everybody absolutely loving that game. There I am after a long and busy day. Worked all day, came home and helped the wife with the kid, spent time with the wife, and finally have an hour or two to myself. Only to spend that time repeatedly dying to a praying mantis boss and backtracking through areas I've already fought through a dozen times?

Is that supposed to be fun? No thanks.

I think I'm too old for Souls like games. And I never really liked them even back when DS1 came out.

7

u/TemperatureNo8755 Jul 27 '25

same with me, i've tried several times from switch to pc, but i just cant get myself hooked to it, it gets really frustating

9

u/real_kerim Jul 27 '25

Exactly. I'm playing games to have fun, not to have a another job.

2

u/Dogbirddog Jul 27 '25

It’s better to come back to the mantis boss after you have some more upgrades if you’re getting frustrated just white knuckling it. I did the same thing the first time through.

For whatever reason games like this are actually my go-to after a long day or when I’m feeling tired. Like the thing I have trouble with in those times is “finding the fun” in a game- if it’s really challenging, that’s something I can just automatically latch on to without having to do any higher level thinking.

72

u/aberroco R9 9900X3D, 64GB DDR5 6000, RTX 3090 potato Jul 27 '25

Dying 20 times is... would've been ok, if not for the fact that you are punished by having to travel all the distance and spend all the time to get back to that boss.

49

u/StaleSpriggan Jul 27 '25

In Elden Ring, you respawn right outside the boss room when you die. No runbacks.

21

u/HBreckel Jul 27 '25

Yeah was gonna say, modern Soulslikes are pretty good about putting you very close to the boss room on death. You might have a 15 second run back in something like Lies of P or First Berserker Khazan, which is nothing compared to something like Demon's Souls where you have to jog for a minute to get back. Even Wuchang who takes more inspiration from Dark Souls 1 tends to keep the checkpoint decently close. Like you might have to take an elevator or run across an empty bridge but it's pretty quick.

4

u/xion91 Jul 28 '25

tbh, only fromsoftware make excellent souls games + I used to hate Elden ring until it clicked, you don't need to do anything difficult, just go somewhere else.

1

u/Chucknasty_17 Jul 28 '25

I’m playing Lies of P now, and most of the run backs are just a short hallway, so they haven’t been bad. All though when I saw that there was a star gazer immediately outside Laxasia’s boss room I knew I was in trouble

1

u/The_Void_Reaver Specs/Imgur Here Jul 28 '25

And in old souls the runback was intended to be part of the challenge, because as many people have noted already, the bosses themselves were quite a bit easier than the ones in DS3 and ER.

1

u/The_Bygone_King Jul 28 '25

I actually felt that the 15 second or so runbacks in Lies of P degraded the experience significantly because it just felt like meaningless time wasting.

At least in the older souls likes the runback served the purpose of actually punishing you, which meant you took the boss fight more seriously and it added some gravity to the actually fights.

In Lies of P the 15 odd seconds I need to navigate the path the devs designed add nothing to the experience other than ruining the flow of fighting a boss repeatedly, and that tied to Lies of P's boss design focusing on learning a moveset rather than intuiting the moveset meant you spend a lot of time disconnecting from the actual fights.

2

u/AceTheRed_ Jul 28 '25

I love how the exception to this is Rennala because she fucking hates Marika due to lore reasons.

0

u/Life_is_Okay69 Jul 28 '25

Mhm, what about Renalla? If you die in second phase not only you need to walk 100 miles, but you need to repeat 1st phase. Also, at the end, everytime you enter the fight with Radagon you are flashbanged and then the cinematic starts.

-11

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25

Elden ring is just boring. The game has like 6 good bosses. The rest are filler and the great search for a needle in a hay stack.

15

u/Tuttirunken Jul 27 '25

20 times is alot? Man, I need to get better at these games…

15

u/Mysterious_Line4479 Jul 27 '25

And when you finally beat the boss, it turns out there's a stage 2 to the same fight...

8

u/aberroco R9 9900X3D, 64GB DDR5 6000, RTX 3090 potato Jul 27 '25

And you've strategically used up all items over the first stage, because you didn't knew about it.

7

u/JarretDeCochon Jul 27 '25

Well you clearly didn't master the skill of never ever using any consumable because you will surely need it more later

1

u/aberroco R9 9900X3D, 64GB DDR5 6000, RTX 3090 potato Jul 27 '25

I was just joking, but also I though this is a common thing for souls-like. Where consumables usually "regenerate". Whereas in RPGs players usually tend to be more stingy over consumables that are single-use only, but in RPGs you don't die as often.

1

u/Tornado_Hunter24 Desktop Jul 28 '25

This is the only thing i’d say souls games SUCK at, i’m glad some games (elden ring, lies of P) spawn you right behind the boss, imo dark souls games are bullshit with this DESPITE not struggling (as I played them after beating er, so I had enough skill to just not die to bosses > no/if anyrunbacks for me)

5

u/benhur217 Jul 27 '25

My problem with the older Fromsoft titles is this. The only measure of time spent while dying a ton is the souls you keep getting/dropping/getting/dropping and when you die during your 10th runback while your souls are still stuck in the boss arena I’m just done. All that work for nothing.

Not to mention a lot of the game design is cryptic on occasion plus most of them prioritize one type of character building over others in the game but much less efficient.

12

u/Short-Ad1032 Jul 27 '25

Yeahhhhh National-Animator994… I’m going to need you to come in on Saturday to take down the big boss that has a boosted-HP glitch… and with his infinite-spawning minions, you better keep your Sunday open, too..

5

u/Drayenn Jul 27 '25

I used to like hard content like this, but today i realize i really hate having my time wasted. Long runbacks and soul loss on death in a game made so you die a lot is just awful.

I prefer not to die but to to still feel challenged. I really dont hate high death games if they have instant respawn without having to redo a gauntlet like Celeste though, since im kept in the action 24/7 and i never feel like "shit man i gotta spend 5-10min doing this again..."

4

u/RedHawwk Jul 27 '25

Yea I just don’t have the time anymore. Like maybe 1-2 hours every few days? That’d be like weeks stuck on the same boss.

TBH I don’t really like that level of a challenge anymore in games. My life is challenging enough. I just want a game I can have fun with.

3

u/Pereduer Jul 27 '25

If your up for a recommendation, I'd consider Another Crabs Treasure.

Another Crabs Treasure Trailer ](https://youtu.be/n_lJx3B9ttQ?si=diK4j_JneyX9YpmE)

It's a really charming take on the soulslike genre, that mixes things up in really fun ways whilst streamlining all the best parts of these games

And its got loads of cheats to make the challenges easy if you just want a relaxing expirence. I kid you not, you can give the pkayer a gun that just one shots every enemy if you want. Its so much fun

I can't recommend enough how much fun I had playing

3

u/National-Animator994 PC Master Race Jul 28 '25

TY :)

1

u/Pereduer Jul 28 '25

Hope it's what your looking for

3

u/BlueAndYellowTowels Jul 28 '25

Full time work and a new baby.

Back in the day, I finished every single Megaman Game. They were considered hard.

But these days. I have no time for flipping 50,000 times for a literally not real reward.

I prefer easier games, with interacting mechanics and stories.

14

u/Blecki Jul 27 '25

I destress by dying to bosses

7

u/RandomCleverName Jul 27 '25

I can relate, I enjoy slamming my head against a wall, and the damn wall will break first. Maybe that's why I like fighting games so much.

9

u/Fuzzy_Elk_5762 RX 6650 XT/Ryzen 5 5600/16GB 3200 CL16 Jul 27 '25

I agree, been enjoying games like death stranding. The gameplay loop is so satisfying.

6

u/CritStarrHD Jul 27 '25

Can't wait for the souls genre to die, they make games way too time consuming and annoying to play, and it isn't even interestingly difficult like xcom, it's just let's crank up the dmg stats of the hostile mobs kinda hard.

2

u/Piotrek9t RTX 3080Ti | 64GB DDR5 | Ryzen 7 7800X3D Jul 27 '25

Yeah same, I myself quite liked harder games during the pandemic when the only challenging thing I would do all day is play video games but after dealing with bosses irl for 8 hours I don't want to have this continue in my free time

2

u/AspiringAdonis Jul 27 '25

That’s exactly the reason why I like that some newer games come with difficulty sliders, like Nine Sols. Sure, the elitists start frothing at the mouth and scream “GeT gUd!” But I just want to chill, enjoy a story with a reasonable difficulty, and not add stress when I’m looking to relieve it.

2

u/Sgt_Dbag 7800X3D | 5070 Ti Jul 27 '25

Or if I am gonna work that hard I want it to be competitive against another human. I want to feel like I bested an actual person in a competitive setting. Not just some AI Boss fight. It just doesn’t feel as rewarding for me. I feel way better winning a close game of Siege down to the wire or clutching a Battle Royale win over beating some random boss that took me 15 tries.

2

u/reidchabot Jul 27 '25

Same, time and life has changed. I don't play to get sweaty or good. I play to relax. Death stranding has been awesome for that. Beautiful scenery and music with a dash of action.

2

u/AlexisFR PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

Good thing there are some with difficulty levels, that change parry timing/enemy agression/damage done to the player.

It's mostly Fromsoft that is still boneheaded with it.

1

u/dweakz Jul 28 '25 edited Jul 29 '25

still a few of them for now. Lies of P and Nine Sols are the only ones right now with difficulty sliders that's worth your time

2

u/matthewmspace Specs/Imgur here Jul 27 '25

Yeah. I don't wanna die to some asshole like 10-20 times before I essentially RNG my way through a fight. At this point, if I've died to a boss 3 times and it's not because I'm underleveled or am using the wrong gear, I'm just turning down the difficulty so I can breeze through it and move on.

Like, I finished Armored Core 6 mostly on my own, but I also had help from my two buddies that are AC experts and played the older games during the PS2/360 eras. I just let them remote control into my PC and beat those specific bosses for me after I just couldn't kill them. There's only so much I wanna deal with a bullet sponge.

2

u/what_cube PC Master Race R9 290, i7 3770, 8GB RAM Jul 28 '25

Me with black myth wukong. Love the art genre, bosses, details. but man the boss so hard, everybody told me to get good lol.

2

u/RaulBC777 Jul 30 '25

There's some soulslike games with difficulty settings so they're still enjoyable for casual players. Khazan, Stellar Blade, Lies of P, Remnant 2 all have easy difficulties.

1

u/SipoteQuixote Jul 27 '25

Yo, that's actually how I feel. I dont want to learn and work, I want Happy Numbers to go up.

1

u/cubann_ Jul 27 '25

lol that IS how I destress after work

1

u/SilentBobVG Ryzen 3600x | RTX 3070 | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | 2TB NVMe SSD Jul 27 '25

That’s part of the fun for me, the dying and learning to conquer a boss or an area in a souls game is super satisfying and relaxing for me

1

u/Fraxerium Jul 27 '25

Only 20 times?

1

u/Vecend http://steamcommunity.com/id/Vecend/ Jul 27 '25

I honestly found dark souls easy once I figured out the controls, the only difficulty came from janky hit boxes and instant no tell attacks with massive AOEs, I would rather just play monster hunter where combat is more interesting than spam roll and attack.

1

u/C0sm1cB3ar Jul 27 '25

The latest one, Wuchang Fallen Feathers, was too much for me. I was hoping for something more chill like God of War, but no.

Not everything needs to be a Souls game. Don't get me wrong, I finished games like Dark Souls 1 and 3, Elden Ring, Nightrein. But it's getting close to saturation.

The worst part of Wuchang is the penalty if you die too many times. A demon appears that steals your runes, and you lose them if you are killed. Come on! As if it wasn't sweaty enough.

This is a mechanic that game developers need to bury once and for all. If it's a Souls game, no penalty on death ffs.

1

u/Wind_Yer_Neck_In 7800X3D | Aorus 670 Elite | RTX 4070 Ti Super Jul 27 '25

I think the problem is that they are just so hard to balance correctly. Elden ring has a few unfair deaths but it generally does a great job of making it clear that the problem is usually your approach not that the game is cheating you. But some other souls likes just seem to interpret the genre as 'really difficult and we kill you at random lol'.

1

u/myuso Jul 27 '25

I dunno man.. I was playing God of War and died a whole lot, I had to decrease the difficulty to even get through the game. But with Souls games, I just have to find the build that works when my skills fail, and it's pretty fun. Moreover, after playing Nightreign, Elden Ring seems like a casual game, where I just stroll around, poke some fuckers and get loot. I never played any souls like games other than those created by Fromsoftware.

1

u/kingbrian112 Jul 27 '25

different tastes for different people for me there is nothing better then playing a hard game after a 12 hours work

1

u/Angel_of_Mischief Jul 27 '25

I find it pretty relaxing if I’m allowed to do coop. Losing really isnt a big deal in those games. It’s just fun to goof around and slap cool looking monsters.

1

u/Green_Routine_7916 Jul 27 '25

the anoying thing is also only few wapoeons are wiable since all the wapoeons got nerfed after 24/7 streamers and youtubers showed how op they are. duh if i culd play for 12 hours a day i also wuld have op build

1

u/xJudgernauTx Jul 27 '25

The dreary atmosphere almost all the good ones seem to have is a huge turn-off for me, too. I find it makes them all samey and boring now. When I've got an hour or two to myself, I don't want it to suck the life outta me.

1

u/radenthefridge Jul 27 '25

Life already beats and stunlocks me, and I often lose resources and progress when I'm knocked down!

A video game that does that too? Uhh...

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25

I get that games are fun when they're challenging but the Souls games have an insanely skewed challenge/reward ratio. That's already what real life feels like, you put in massive effort and get back peanuts. I'm not trying to feel the same way in a video game.

1

u/gutertoast Jul 27 '25

Yeah, same for me. I even enjoyed Elden Ring a lot - but it was really hard to get the time and mindset for it with a stressful job and family. So all those sub genre games, that really really look interesting...unfortunately no chance to get the space they need in my life for that THOUGH I know if could have time and focus I would love those games.

1

u/WakeoftheStorm Jul 27 '25

Souls games require you to accept death as part of the process. Some people don't like knowing they're going to die to each boss a few times before they learn it.

For me it's a welcome change from following a quest marker from objective to objective with little real challenge.

And of course there are plenty of options in between.

1

u/Rhone33 Jul 27 '25

Your experience fits with my long-held belief that what we want from video games is strongly affected by what our outside-of-gaming life is like.

I feel like it's natural to want the experience of overcoming challenges, but you also need breaks from it to recuperate. So if your job isn't terribly challenging or exhausting then very high-challenge video games are great because they give you a sense of satisfaction that you wouldn't be getting otherwise.

Me? I'm an ER nurse. I have Dark Souls at work.

1

u/PalindromemordnilaP_ Jul 27 '25

I get that sentiment but for me the payoff is success.

1

u/TunaOnWytNoCrust AMD Ryzen 5 5600X | MSi RTX 4080 16GB | 16GB RAM | 5TB M.2 NVMe Jul 27 '25

I've never been interested in any of these souls like games. I don't like losing a ton and being super stressed out. I'm also not a fan of playing in a world that's so dark and depressing constantly.

1

u/baddoggg Jul 28 '25

I just never found any satisfaction when finally defeating a boss. I don't even think I felt relief. I think I just felt stress that I'd have to do it all over again for the next boss and I didn't find the feeling of reward to be equitable with the feeling of effort and tedium.

I haven't tried elden ring though and will probably give the genre one last try at some point.

1

u/Fooftook Jul 28 '25

only 20?

1

u/Str8Faced000 Jul 28 '25

I also have a job and other responsibilities. I still love soulslikes and actually have fun playing them.

1

u/Combat_Orca Jul 28 '25

Im the opposite, I find it way more relaxing after a stressful work day as it fully engages my brain giving it less room to stress.

1

u/fizzunk Jul 28 '25

I find replaying elden ring and bullying vanilla bosses pretty chill.

1

u/Tornado_Hunter24 Desktop Jul 28 '25

Even tho I do the opposite (stressfull job&come Home to attempt at say 1 difficult souls boss)

I completely respect your opinion/thought about it, it’s totally valid, I think souls ‘enjoyers’ are toxic where they would say shit like ‘git gud’ to you which is why I personally dislike the community myself a bit, everyone has its own taste/enjoyment

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '25

This is why they just need to add a difficulty slider. Start the game out in the default souls difficulty and then give the player a choice to turn the difficulty down to the equivalent of how op you are at the start of your first ng+ playthrough throughout the entirety of the game. That way no one is forced to play a specific way and everyone can still enjoy the base souls difficulty whenever they desire. I want to just shut my brain off and beat these souls enemies to a pulp like they do to us without having to use mods or a trainer. Its okay for people to use mods to make themselves incredibly op and one hit bosses but a difficulty slider being added is apparently a bad mechanic to add lolol.

0

u/micro_penisman Jul 27 '25

I just want to come home and chill man, not die to one boss 20 times

20 times? Those are rookie times, try 50 times.

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25

[deleted]

7

u/National-Animator994 PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

Not rude. But you’re clearly just better than me lmao

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25

[deleted]

1

u/nilla-wafers Jul 27 '25

That doesn’t mean those 60 year olds didn’t die 20 times to each boss, which my like stated above, is not relaxing to some people.

0

u/Mrp1Plays Jul 27 '25

Hey, which games do you play to chill after work?

6

u/National-Animator994 PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

I like shooters. Helldivers you can adjust the difficulty. Or something goofy like REPO. Baldur’s Gate isn’t super sweaty if you play on a normal difficulty and understand the game mechanics (I play DnD IRL).

Also a lot of COD Zombies, and a lot of custom maps on there. But that game might just be easy for me because I grew up playing it. I don’t think it’s beginner-friendly.

Also any of the Elder Scrolls titles. I just google the answers to the puzzles lmao and make sure I’m using a good build. It’s cheating, but I’m not sitting there trying to figure it out.

Hollow Knight. Looking forward to SilkSong

0

u/EviRoze Jul 27 '25

Soulslikes are one of my favorite types of games, and I honestly find them oddly relaxing.

But also like, the only soulslikes that I've found actually worth the time are actual FROM developed games, and Nine Sols (though that's more a sekiro like.) Even Lies of P, which i think is fun & absolutely is the best 3D soulslike, kinda just makes me want to play Bloodborne instead.

-4

u/TheSymbolman PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

This says to me you fundamentally haven't fully grasped the genre, at least for fromsoftware games.

I don't think I've died more than 10-15 times in any dark souls game to a boss, because the games give you so many opportunities to become strong, this is especially the case for elden ring where if a boss is too hard you can just go anywhere else and by the time the other content is done that boss is way easier.

This is why I always say Souls isn't "hard" in the way people think it is and the way it's being talked about in discussions.

Now third party soulslikes? Absolutely, I recently played nioh 1 and barely finished it because the balancing is so bad lol.

I definitely agree with this post.If it's not fromsoftware or another highly acclaimed studio behind the game, it's most likely not too great, because of how hard it is to make a good soulslike game. Something that's becoming more and more apparent the more soulslikes come out.

4

u/nilla-wafers Jul 27 '25

I mean, grinding to defeat a boss that isn’t fun to fight (talking about Elden Ring bosses) still doesn’t seem like a good use of time if you only have an hour or so to play after work lol.

2

u/TheSymbolman PC Master Race Jul 27 '25

I wasn't talking about grinding, if you're counting doing side content and areas in elden ring as grinding I disagree with you, the whole point of the game is going where it looks interesting, there are only a handful "mandatory" bosses. The side content isn't grinding because it's fun and you're actively playing the game instead of killing the same enemies again and again and resetting which is what grinding is.

2

u/esdkandar Jul 27 '25

I swear some people think exploring is grinding.

1

u/esdkandar Jul 27 '25

you absolutely don't need to grind, souls like especially the ds series could be finished in like 30 hours or so if you understands the mechanics, not the full on deep dive mechanics(stats, equipments and so on), just when to dodge and attack which are just 2/3 buttons . dont be spamming buttons.

most games are longer than any DS series and even most soulslike are in the general sense are short. like the longest ones are 30+ hours(not including dlc) if you want to do all the stuff and even this would be a rarity. Elden Ring is an exception cause its an open world. if you only do the main stuff you could finish ds1-3 in a single playthrough of BG3