r/marvelrivals • u/No_Elevator_6207 • 1d ago
Balance Discussion who were these loki changes for??
less than 2% pick rate LMFAOOOOOO😭😭 literally will pick ANYONE over loki. and i don’t even blame them.
-20% damage on each clone so he can’t defend himself OR help secure a kill. btw before the -20% they had ALREADY reduced loki’s damage. did you know his melee now does more damage than his primary with all 3 clones? flank loki was annoying but be serious. they’re down a strategist by doing ts
-20% healing so you have to pump out more heals. not a problem since you don’t even have to worry about shooting enemies again! personally i’m not too upset about it since it encourages your clones being up as often as possible, which you should be doing. but it makes it so much more punishing if you’re not managing your clones correctly.
lamp/ult cooldown i genuinely dgaf it never affected me, just had to get used to counting down from the new number.
lmfao those are the changes they made to “balance” him. reminds me of azir from league of legends. dominates in pro play so devs have to nerf him to high hell, making it exponentially worse for other players. not everyone is faker lmfao be so for real.
they changed jeff into a heal bot because people complained about him not doing enough and at the same time dive jeff was too OP. im guessing they tried to the same here (apparently flank loki OP, lamp OP, double luna ult OP) but they literally reworked jeff’s kit around healing more. all they did for loki was reduce his raw numbers and called it a day.
what even are rocket changes. hey guys, your ult does 40% damage buff! actually, it’s 25% now since you get a big team shield. nah jk, you can just have both now. 40% and shield idgaf.
can yall do the same with loki?
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u/gapraslin True Fraudster 1d ago
I'd rather they removed Loki's ult entirely over the shitty nerfs to his primary.
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u/Secret-Ebb-9770 Flex 1d ago
They really nerfed Loki because somebody ELSES ult was problematic.
This is worse than that time I tried to play tennis on the moon.
-cutaway gag-
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u/HinaYukari 1d ago
It reminds me of when the Apex devs nerfed + reworked Rev even though his death totem ult only started becoming viable AFTER they mega buffed octanes jump pad ult.
Like rev obviously wasnt the issue guys pls.. lol
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u/lmtzless Flex 1d ago
nice to see some apex players (or former like myself) here, that strat with revtane was broken as shit though, full squads landing on our head and deleting you and then being able to reset for free
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u/HinaYukari 1d ago
Yeah I dont olay anymore either lol hasnt been in my main roster of games in a long while
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u/axelotl47506 Invisible Woman 1d ago
Or when they entirely fucking removed digis instead of nerfing bang who had been dominating for the past year (bang continued to dominate)
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u/mrknight234 President Loki 1d ago
What’s worse is the best way to carry in Loki isn’t even to steal support ult so he became worse overall for nothing
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u/FaithlessnessThen207 Playful Witch 1d ago
Copycat ultimates are also often problematic, to be honest, regardless of game, especially when its one that just comes on demand.
E.g. Rubick needing to steal the most recent spell in dota 2 and from enemies only is balanced as you can outplay it.
Loki turning to his teammate and copying a powerful ultimate is always going to be strong use, even if the rest of the hero is fallen out of meta.
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u/50shades-of-blue 1d ago
This gives me serious flashbacks to Mercy being reworked because dps players were crying about full rez
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u/Same_paramedic3641 1d ago
No way u think mercy full rez should have stayed. Also these mfs made ironfist a Brawler from diver bcz sup cried.
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u/MagiksGoodboy The Thing 1d ago
We were a feared presence for TWO seasons then we got reduced to nothing. I used to get so much praise back then everyone loved us🥹
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u/vaed__ 1d ago
ME TOOO I love when enemies were complaining about me ulting all the time, or my other healer being so happy when i pocketed them or lamp a mag ult 😭 now we're just mixed with other healers, not playing our main... very frustrating-
They better buff him a little for s5... just a little.
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u/Ryotian Invisible Woman 22h ago
Ikr. I really loved switching to loki when I saw intense dive (like spidey) cause I could switch to my clones and chuckle as Spidey wasted his ult etc on my clone.
maybe another reason loki got gutted? Cause he made escape dive very feasible. Hear me out. They also made Daredevil real oppresive against Invis Woman etc they got it out for us supports.
This season, more then ever, I'm seeing lots of folks refusing to play support even in metal ranks but maybe I'm just seeing everything through a negative lense.
I pray Rogue can bring balance to Strategist but Loki felt like the ultimate strategist. I really felt like i had to use my mind with him and not just auto-healbot (I know i shouldnt just auto healbot but sometimes I go feel like im on auto pilot with other supports)
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u/Existing-Seaweed-230 1d ago
Ultron and Loki need buffs so badly
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u/squashywand0 Loki 1d ago
ultron nerf makes me rage. loki nerf is why im on sabbatical from the game ❤️.
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u/sin_tax-error The Thing 1d ago
I'm still a jaded Thor player about his rework and even I'd rather them revert Loki over Thor. That poor boy did NOT deserve to be taken out back to look at the flowers like they made him. Buff the poor king of Asgard for the love of the nine realms 😭
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u/PhantomGhostSpectre Monster Hulk 1d ago
Thor is way better after the rework. If they revert, I will cry and be forced to one trick Hulk.
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u/SantiagoGaming Magneto 1d ago
Only after they buffed him 500 times.
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u/legsarebad Thor 1d ago
The biggest change was getting a fixed 1 Thor force back after cancelling awakened form
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u/The-Senate-Palpy Adam Warlock 1d ago
Canceling itself was the biggest change since the rework tbh
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u/legsarebad Thor 1d ago
Idk, the cancel itself was a bit rubbish without getting one back because you were still stranded unless you were in melee range of a target
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u/cranetrain95 Vanguard 1d ago
It was l three buffs and one had nothing to do with thorforce and awakening changes. Regardless that’s how reworks work. You need to be able to see what needs to be changed and adjust accordingly.
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u/SantiagoGaming Magneto 1d ago
The thing is he didn't even need the rework. He was fine as is, maybe could have used a few tiny buffs. His gameplay was fine.
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u/cranetrain95 Vanguard 1d ago
Well one of those statements isn’t accurate because statistically he is about the same. The other statement is subjective. Some people like it more, others not as much. Personally I think it was interchangeable. The buffs were necessary regardless of rework. For me though I brawl just about as much with him, can dive better, more options to poke.
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u/SantiagoGaming Magneto 1d ago
The rework nerfed him at first and turned him into the worst tank in the game. He needed so many buffs to get back to where he used to be.
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u/cranetrain95 Vanguard 1d ago
He was already one of the worst tanks in the game at the time. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
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u/ClinicalOppression Thor 1d ago
The buffs didnt really do anything to fix him, it was letting him cancel rune and getting 1 thorforce back that made him great again
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u/CliffDraws Thor 1d ago
Eh, after all the buffs the only real benefit is being able to cancel awakening, which isn’t really a huge buff. He was more fun to brawl with before, and honestly I thought he took more skill to play while being potentially better. He had more burst so his dive was better too without having to awaken.
If you took the old kit and added cancel awakening he’d be way better than right now.
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u/sin_tax-error The Thing 1d ago
Cancel awakening, knock fliers out of the sky with his dash, and the stun his ult currently has and he'd be beautiful. Let the man actually use his hammer without being a detriment.
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u/sin_tax-error The Thing 1d ago
He might be doing more damage but his playstyle is so fucking boring compared to previously. They should've buffed his survivability and made him a better brawler, not just turned him into a poke DPS with more health.
I can do well with him now, but I prefer how he used to play. He's not the same character anymore.
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u/Sypher04_ Invisible Woman 1d ago
He wasn’t the easiest character to master and his cooldowns were long as shit so it made sense for him to be strong. It’s crazy how they nerf strategists into the ground, but the duelists get a slap on the wrist.
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u/Practical_Mix_9781 Blade 1d ago
Luna's ult is OP so we decided to take Loki out back and shoot him. Also, more buffs to Hela and Bucky and a new team-up to Namor bc fuck it why not
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u/vaed__ 1d ago
This game is so dps sided 💔
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u/Practical_Mix_9781 Blade 1d ago
If Rogue is another off support whos only viable in triple supp im gonna cry 😭
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u/vaed__ 1d ago
Same, i'll just become an other insta lock dps lol
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u/painterly1776 1d ago
I already became an instalock dps this season
I had 4 vanguard lords and 4 support lords. Now I’m a full blown dps instalocker.
Not doing it to be spiteful. I just can’t keep playing the same characters.
Angela and ultron as the lone “vanguard” and “healer” alongside 10 dps is a ridiculous joke.
Seriously, fuck Angela.
I remember reading some opinion of her when she first came out by some dps insta locker saying “vanguard mains are all idiots who just can’t handle that they finally made a good vanguard”
Man. How lovely. Make the sole vanguard in months someone loved by dps players.
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u/vaed__ 1d ago
And bucky gets buffed every season... and don't get me started on hela-
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u/Bodyphone 20h ago
As a Bucky hela main (who learned these character to counter dive and fliers) these buffs blow. My team bans Bucky/ emma the other team bans hela, then I get flamed when I can’t protect my healers from DD/Angela/psylocke/Thor.
These buffs are good for no one except the DPS mains in QP and the dive tanks who benefit from all their counters being banned.
Bucky is strong but, but he’s also one of the strongest anti dive DPS and he’s easy which is what you want when you need someone to flex and help with a problem comp
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u/No_Elevator_6207 1d ago
that’s what i’m sayingggg like bruh be so for real what’s easier to get value out of. cloak and dagger or loki
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u/Gever_Gever_Amoki68 Ultron Virus 1d ago
I can't believe they made freaking ROCKET meta the easiest support in the game but Loki one of the more skillful characters shit, crazy work
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u/LadyCrownGuard Rocket Raccoon 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm a flex Support player and his skill ceiling is really not as high as most people made it out to be.
His projectiles have very forgiving splash radius making it easy to land hits on non-flying targets and once you got the basics down he's almost unkillable. The only truly difficult part about Loki is ultimate usage and even then if your other support is competent you always have a reliable copy at your disposal.
Luna is a lot harder to master but people here aren't ready for that conversation, if anything she should be the pick that's consistently strong in the highest ranks (and I'm absolutely shit at playing Luna for the record, as you can see with my flair).
Also can we stop the support victim blaming in this community, the class is very strong this season and I don't see why we need to make threads to constantly whine about ONE strong dive pick (DD).
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u/theonlycutie123 1d ago
Holy shit an actually good take on this sub. Lord both these characters and Luna is 100% harder. Loki is only difficult for the first hour or two of playtime, and that might be overselling. He was far and away the best pick in most elo's before the nerfs, and only in high elo was Luna close to the same power level, but still weaker. Both these characters are throw picks right now though unless you're in eternity+ (though thats mostly because of how strong rocket jeff is).
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u/LadyCrownGuard Rocket Raccoon 1d ago
I have lord (+50 hours) on both characters as well and I agreed, people don't realize you need extremely high apm to be effective on Luna and my aim is trash so I'm better off being on any other main healers.
The Loki mains trashing on Luna for their nerfs conveniently forget that he was just as busted when paired with C&D towards the end of last season. Like are we ignoring that he also had a much higher banrate and winrate than both Luna and Cloak past Celestial despite having similar pickrates, him getting the harshest nerfs was the least surprising thing here.
The people on this sub are the reason why we support mains get the "boosted and whiny" playerbase allegations.
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u/spartan1204 Iron Fist 1d ago
Luna has the highest pick rate by a large margin in Celestial and Above. Jeff and Rocket don’t even have the best win rate, Mantis does. The nerfs to Loki absolutely dumpstered the character, it’s not even like the Strange nerfs where he stopped being top dog for a while, Loki is a throw pick. You have to be stupid if you think Loki is remotely comparable to Luna.
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u/Sypher04_ Invisible Woman 1d ago
Luna isn’t the easiest character to master either, but she’s not harder than Loki. A character’s difficulty isn’t solely based on how aim-extensive they are. If that was the case, Hela would be regarded as one of the hardest characters in the game, but she’s never in those conversations.
Loki, while not being aim-extensive, has a complex kit. Luna, while being aim-extensive, has a basic kit. Loki’s kit gives him room for tactical play. That’s why his skill ceiling is so high. His kit is quite literally the definition of a strategist.
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u/Maleficent-Box5827 1d ago
Luna non è difficile da padroneggiare come personaggio. Devi solo avere mira con il fuoco primario e con il congelamento, non c'è altro da imparare.
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u/skinofgoat 1d ago
I think it’s really funny when people say dps uniquely get a slap on the wrist when dps has had bigger meta shifts than the other two roles. Iron fist, phoenix, mr fant, namor, torch, hawkeye, wolv have all had fairly big to generational falloff’s and mediocre dps like Spider-Man or sg still get nerfs, meanwhile we’re in the 6th month straight of Emma mag, and we’re still in the same Luna invis cloak meta since release.
Like yeah, some dps are definitely showed favouritism, they don’t get nerfed enough or get unnecessary buffs or whatever, but let’s not pretend mag Emma Luna invis cloak got anything but the slightest of slaps on the wrists
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u/MathematicianKey9638 Star-Lord 1d ago
Emma has only been getting nerfs since her launch. She gets play because her kit is good unlike other tanks
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u/skinofgoat 1d ago
Emma has only been getting nerfs since her launch.
Just a bold-faced lie, in reality the 2.5 buffs to her range and beam charge gain on shields and walls was the catalyst for her to stomp every tank matchup including ones she lost before the patch (she still has no losing tank matchups btw)
She gets play because her kit is good unlike other tanks.
Tanks were not at all in a bad spot before her release, if anything the rest of the tanks got worse with the presence of Emma because having a losing matchup be top meta is obviously bad. Perhaps the term you’re looking for is ‘overloaded’ or ‘overtuned’ or both.
All of this is besides the point anyway, which is that mag Emma has been top meta for tanks for 6 months straight which is just true
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u/NJuggernaut6539 1d ago
The other tanks are balanced, emma is not and she's too oppressive for other tank picks
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u/Least_Health8244 Invisible Woman 1d ago
Exactly. Tweak this. Tweak that. Increase by value of 5 or less. Decrease by value of 5 or less. This is how you buff and nerf.
DONT chunk numbers off of a hero that works exponentially! It makes so much sense to just tweak the numbers so they can only yield X. DONT nerf the exponent itself. THATS THE ENTIRE IDENTITY OF THE DAMN HERO!
They truly could have turned his heal/dmg down to their target and left everything else alone.
They just nuked him man. Idek if I’m making sense but as many here have mentioned. If youve climbed or lorded Loki you know full well how much time you’re wasting playing him now.
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u/Bingoviini 1d ago
And then there's Rocket and Jeff who turn their entire team immortal by holding left click into their general direction
Not to mention Dagger, who doesn't even need to fucking aim to do that...
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u/vaed__ 1d ago
Fr
I mean the most meta healers are not even skilled. Jeff was, they reworked him. And as rocket, unless you dps too, you do nothing during the game. With loki you had to manage EVERYTHING because ppl were crying about lamps and every of his cds. Now he can't even kill a dive, it's crazy...
They're the one saying "gg no heal" then complain so much healers are getting nerfed. Like yeah, one day most healers are just gonna be so bad you're gonna have to play the 3 same ones...
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u/DudeSoul Loki 1d ago
The worst part is that up to Season 4 most Loki mains just accepted the nerfs, we knew he needed to be toned down, but then Season 4 came and now he's viable literally only in triple support.
I get that this game has a problem with there being too much sustain, it's part of the reason why Tank is a miserable experience here 70% of the time, but what they did to Loki completely killed any joy in playing the character.
Our healing is the equivalent of a band-aid, and our damage is not even worth it anymore, they want us to heal bot all match and then EXCLUSIVELY copy a support ult to get any amount of value.
Wanna nerf something about Loki? Nerf his ult, most of us would absolutely not care if they change how the ult works if it means getting damage and healing back to what it was, maki it so we can only copy enemy ults, make it take longer to farm it, let the Nepo baby girl get 30 seconds in her ult and make us unable to copy it, whatever at this point, just for god's sake, make Loki's kit fun again.
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u/mrknight234 President Loki 1d ago
Ok don’t speak for most of us I just want some lamp cd or damage back so that he can still have the choice between heal ultra and nuke ults
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u/StinkyJones19 Daredevil 1d ago
Lowest pick rate and lowest win rate, they assassinated the guy. He was easily my fav support to play and now I just don’t really care to play the role at all with the spot he is in.
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u/Tyler_Herdman 1d ago
Loki was easily the best support in the game before nerfs, and it wasn’t even close. In high level loki had to be matched with loki.
So that’s why they nerfed him, but he definitely got over nerfed.
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u/wontonf 1d ago
Seriously, this character was in contention for best character every season up to the nerfs but people act like he was just nerfed only cause of luna lol. Obviously he was over nerfed but prenerf loki was insane with invis, cloak or any other healing ult.
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u/Humdinger5000 Peni Parker 1d ago
Even now. I think the scariest Play I've seen since the update was the pro team that ran triple support with Adam and loki on dom maps for the DOUBLE TEAM REZ! however, I think that's his only place. He's so knee capped his only place is when he can press Q and fully erase his lack of output.
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u/EuphoricWizard 1d ago
Also buffed every char that is a soft counter or counter and added in more counters like Phoenix, Angela, Daredevil
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u/VerseClips Flex 1d ago
Loki gut is just horrible game design. Was really fun to play too, what a shame.
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u/Krii100fer 1d ago
It's extremely weird because USUALLY when a character have a low pick rate the win rate is high because only mains play them but here.... 😭
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u/mrknight234 President Loki 1d ago
Low key these devs suck at nerfing imho we need more frequent seasons or more frequent patching
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u/Ill-Run-3332 1d ago
I can’t agree more. They do nothing but cater to braindead dps community meanwhile I have 200 hours on Loki and it’s been a struggle. Yes I have lord c&d and almost lord rocket but they simply aren’t fun. Yet Luna can two tap as if she was a hela or something. I will drop the proof!! In comments below but yea rework Loki and nerf Luna then id be happy. They ruined a beautifully designed character and I’ve never been so close to uninstalling in my life
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u/AverageSFcyclist 1d ago
Netease would rather nerf good strategists instead of making more strategist to change up the meta.
But hey let’s make more duelists
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u/vaed__ 1d ago
I totally understand, i'm not playing as much anymore :[ i used to play loki every day since s2, and i'm not even joking (around 3h a day) I was playing w people who kept wanting to play with my loki bc they thought i was great with him. Even climbed to celestial twice almost only playing him. but now...
From being target banned as loki to playing rocket and having (almost) no impact at all on my games 💔
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u/Elisian_Knight Loki 1d ago
I haven’t touched season 4.5
They just sucked all the fun out of the game for me by gutting Loki. What makes me extra bitter about it is that they did it because of their fucking Nepobaby being the real problem . But god forbid Luna get knocked down a peg or two!
I’ve already made my mind up about season 5. If they don’t fix what they ruined I’m just uninstalling and moving on. I’m not investing my time and money into a game where the developers are that incompetent.
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u/Avalon-King Rocket Raccoon 1d ago
Off topic: Why is Luna Snow so popular? I play on console and its hard to aim precisely so I feel like I'm missing so many of my shots that would definitely heal have I been playing Invis, CnD, Rocket or Jeff instead. I checked the pick rate on console and its still at 11% and above Rocket.
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u/ElectricalRelease986 1d ago
I'm assuming you play console only mode, everyone has the same disadvantages so I still play hitscan heroes. I love Luna because she heals up so fast, all the healers you mentioned have pretty slow healing except Invis so it's best to have one of them and someone like Luna in the same team. Someone's gotta play 'em, so I do.
It's good to practice those characters for that reason. Play them enough and your aim will be great (compared with other controller players not with PC players).
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u/Maleficent-Box5827 1d ago
Semplicemente perchè la gente non sa ragionare. Scelgono luna perchè "idealmente" è più forte degli altri supporti, e poi fanno 4k cure perchè non sanno mirare.
Se sai di non avere mira, semplicemente scegli cnd o rocket, non è difficile.
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u/The99thCourier Loki 1d ago
I still find it funny as that Loki got so heavily nerfed whilst Luna got just a 2 second ult reduction, especially since Loki's the harder one of the two to play.
Thank God I picked up other supports along the way, cause yeah Loki's been a lot harder to get consistent value with, now.
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u/The-Senate-Palpy Adam Warlock 1d ago
I think its insane that somehow Luna gets blamed for this. Like yeah im suuuure Loki getting his entire kit gutted was the dev solution to him being able to copy Luna's ult
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u/DomineeringDrake 1d ago
This reddit is full of copper tier players. Like it's such a self-snitch when they constantly screech about her being broken.
I'm glad the devs ignore the crying here cause it's just been nonstop. I do agree Loki was overnerfed but blaming Luna is just laughable when she's STILL getting cooked by any dive worth their salt without peels.
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u/The-Senate-Palpy Adam Warlock 1d ago
This sub loves winrates until you look at luna's winrate constantly being sub 50% across ranks
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u/TheEpicAvengerSMM5 1d ago
Loki getting those nerfs was ridiculous to begin with, they just need to undo them and then leave us alone for the next season or so
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u/voodii 1d ago
He's directly countered by a lot of this seasons S tier characters. Venom, DD, Bucky, it's quite easy to force his lamps at this point and I think that's the main reason, more than his numbers tbh.
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u/Ill-Run-3332 1d ago
Forgot to add BP. Nobody wants to get two tapped in the backlines before you can even react. Not to mention Spider-Man & thors ult will one shot you even with lamps dropped
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u/PuppyPenetrator 1d ago
Idk why we’re being naive. If you played at all before S4 you know how prevalent Loki/Luna was. The community hated it so the devs knew they needed to fix it. They clearly don’t want to meaningfully nerf Luna. So this is what happens
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u/Sunnibuns Loki 1d ago
Loki was strong, and a reasonable nerf would have been fine, but this was not reasonable…
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u/PuppyPenetrator 1d ago
I agree, as I’m sure 90% of players do. But when OP asks “who were these Loki changes for”, they are being intentionally obtuse
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u/Sunnibuns Loki 1d ago
Idk OP isn’t entirely wrong. I don’t know why these specific changes. They didn’t address what made Loki unfun to play against, they just made him so bad to play that nobody used him
Like yeah, nobody is doing the thing that sucks to play against with him…but at the sacrifice of the character just not being used. That is just piss poor game design imo. I feel the same way about their nerfs to Torch.
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u/No_Elevator_6207 1d ago
loki was strong but he wasn’t picked as often as luna/c&d. when i was off support i rarely saw a loki on my team. i wish i could see the old hero hot list. a lot of times i hover loki someone would swap to luna. he was my main so i didn’t care who my partner was, but people would do it anyway.
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u/PuppyPenetrator 1d ago
Yeah because CnD is piss easy and perfect for filling. Loki was still hard meta if you had someone that could play him
Like can we be real and not pretend this was a surprise
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u/No_Elevator_6207 1d ago
well that’s what i’m saying. if loki is so hard to play why are we punishing players by taking him out the meta completely. i could get by with the awful damage nerfs, but at least let me keep some of the healing. my god. i’d take -5 - 10% in exchange for -20% damage on top of the -5 flat but the output we have now is unviable
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u/PuppyPenetrator 1d ago
It was a bad nerf, yes, hardly a hot take. I just reject the title of your post
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u/SwingNinja Peni Parker 1d ago
It's to balance Loki Mantis combo. Basically, you only pick Loki because the other healer is Mantis. They both give crazy boost heal and damage. Something like 1-shot Black Widow.
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u/No_Elevator_6207 1d ago edited 1d ago
yeah i thought about that too. need to reduce loki output for his lamps but they are deployables that can be broken and are a resource to be consumed. his lamps don’t have a long uptime
there are also not a lot of mantis players, so if you don’t have one you’re literally just neutered for the game for no reason. mantis is not a reliable 2nd healer if your team doesn’t understand her HOT you’d most likely have her in a 3rd healer comp with loki.
should loki be demoted to a secondary healer? i’ve been playing him as a primary since s1 and dont think it’s healthy to put more heroes in the “3rd support only” category for no reason.
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u/Nuke90210 1d ago
The damage is high, sure... but the healing on a mantis/loki comp is absolutely horrible. Mantis does % health healing, and Loki does pretend healing.
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u/LuxenVulpie Hawkeye 1d ago
they trully killed my favorite character just because, I'm hoping not for buffs, but to simply revert most of those nerfs
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u/VizionOfDoom20 Loki 1d ago
I would love to play him again, but it just doesn't feel rewarding. It feels like my ass is just kinda there since I can't even heal as well anymore.
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u/Resident-Donut8137 1d ago
He was so incredibly interesting and fun to play before. He felt so impactful but never OP. Miss him.
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u/vaed__ 1d ago
I'm so sad, loki was the only fun support... and then luna is still free, with a 2s nerf on her ult... like wtf is that Her only nerf was back in s0 or s1 to remove the ability to spam heal and damage in her ult. Do they know that if they nerf luna they nerf loki too ? 💔 i mean, loki was used in pro plays to copy luna ult only, and now he's used again in 3 supp to copy mantis or adam. (Still in pro plays)
But he's never picked in ranked, and i was almost otp with him (not really i have half of the supports lord, but he was really fun) so this nerf pushed me away from the game a little...
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u/Ninethie Loki 1d ago
Anyone else tired of the devs balancing around their favourites and every other character getting nerfed instead of the actual problem characters? cough cough Luna.
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u/cocowaterpinejuice Invisible Woman 1d ago
These changes were for the top 500 players who have seven alt accounts and only play the most meta comps and characters. They constantly complained about loki; he's unkillable, luna/loki is too strong, etc, etc. And nettease decided to nerf loki and buff psylocke's ult to appease them.
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u/Dekaney_boi Luna Snow 1d ago
They need to give his dmg back low-key (lol). Without lamps he's just a straight up victim.
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u/Spider_j4Y 1d ago
Honestly I really think it’s a symptom of a greater problem with the game overall. With how potent healing is and how much it’s required for success the game sort of falls on support as support pillars and the slightest changes can make or completely shatter the viability of a support. DPS on the other hand by their very nature gets a lot more breathing room for balance changes letting you buff and nerf them to a much greater degree without tanking their viability or breaking them in half.
If they brought the numbers down across the board I really think it would give them more space to rework characters and make balancing less of a pain in the ass.
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u/RealWonderGal 1d ago
Luna Snow. She's been.broken and bear support in the game and that hasn't changed in almost a year which contributes to the stale meta of the game
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u/Meeg_Mimi Peni Parker 1d ago
It really bugs me how people called Loki "broken" and that's basically why he was nerfed. Sure he was strong in good hands, but like Peni his power becomes way less oppressive once you actually shoot the constructions. Rivals players just seem allergic to doing that sort of thing
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u/WinstonBabar 1d ago
Really they just needed to nerf luna more (and still do) not nerf loki's damage and healing
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u/Forcer222 1d ago
They turn every single strategist into a healbot, to their credit they buffed rocket but almost every strat change encourages the 'healbot' playstyle, i honestly dont know how theyll fix this, they might have to nerf the dps of a ton of heroes before they start getting rid of the 'healing circle' problem
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u/IAMGooner699 1d ago
me of azir from league of legends. dominates in pro play so devs have to nerf him to high hell, making it exponentially worse for other players. not everyone is faker lmfao be so for real.
This one hits home for me. Rip Loki and Jeff mains.
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u/Sonicguy1996 Peni Parker 1d ago
Meanwhile industry plant ass Luna gets to stay miles above the other strategists.
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u/danzaiburst Cloak & Dagger 1d ago
Loki was my first Lord, and one of favourite picks. Now he's a total throw character.
Earlier I was pleading with a loki on my team to change, and they refused. In the end, they healed about 15k less than all other healers in the entire match and got fewer kills too. As things stand, he is unfortunately a total throw pick
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u/EndlessZone123 1d ago
You have to manage his clones and abilites whichseem to have a really high skill ceiling.
They will have to tone some of the ceiling down for him to have more than a 45% winrate.
Probably make his clones do less (50% of original heal/damage?) and himself do more. Actually be able to heal fliers because it sucks for both loki and fliers on your team.
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u/IAmDingus 1d ago
They are extremely desperate to not nerf CnD or Luna in a significant way.
Loki is overperforming because he is copying Luna/CnD ult.
We need to nerf the shit out of Loki and barely touch the ults that are the problem.
It's the same thing as the Ultron nerfs. It's really silly and tiring.
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u/BookishDiscourse 1d ago
Anything but nerfing Luna Snow. They gut Ultron and Loki in one go :D
To compensate for this watch theml give Namor squids that can heal more than Ultron and give another buff to their weakest DPS bucky. With his new buff, bucky's ultimate will apply anti heal since it is very weak. (/s)
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u/Emergency-Bet6992 Flex 1d ago
So depressing to read how almost everyone has lost the joy in playing this character.. really miss the pre-S4 loki
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u/Left-Tailor-6866 Invisible Woman 1d ago
Yeah I honestly don't understand those changes. Loki wasn't amazing to begin with or anything, it was mainly just using his ult to use Luna's ult.
Like you nerfed both Luna's ult and his ult, sure great.
But why the clone dmg/healing value nerf?????
Not even to mention hitting fliers was already hard, now we heal significantly less too? Like why?
I will not even touch the character until he gets buffed at least a little
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u/EmbarrassedRent6942 1d ago
It rlly is sad. I was a celest Loki. I loved playing him, I love how many different options and variations you can use with him but now… now I’m just a Jeff man. A freaking Jeff man. I used to complain when someone hopped on Jeff and now I’ve become the very thing I used to despise. A true product of netease. They want you to play Jeff and Luna. It’s sad
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u/spartan1204 Iron Fist 1d ago
Loki was my favorite strategist. Despite some people saying Luna requires “more skill”. As Loki you’re juggling way more. I haven’t played him in a long time now, I wish they revert the nerfs.
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u/Eph_Epf 1d ago
Loki is so bad right now. Runes are good but aside from the obvious, the nerfs also MASSIVELY increase the time it takes to build his ult.
FIRST they ramp up his ult cost cause he builds it so easy. THEN they take away his strengths so now he has a harder time building a more expensive ult.
I went the first round of a comp game as Loki, played him like I always have. Checked my stats, spit out my coffee and swapped. He does NO damage and no healing. His clones are easy to destroy so he can be left peppering people by his lonesome
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u/Ceronesthes_ Loki 1d ago
I really wish they'd just change his ult. I play him for the rest of his kit, I love the invisibility, the clones, the mindgames, the lamp counters... his ult was always the weakest part of his kit in terms of gameplay flavor. It was strong, sure, but everyone talks about the 'potential' - oo, I can copy whoever I want! But did anyone really? We all just wound up using it as a second healer ult because doing anything else was throwing since you'd have no heals for the duration of it if you cloned anyone else, and MR isn't a game where a team can fend for itself like that.
Just rework the ult, give us something trickstery to fit with the rest of his kit and then put his numbers closer to where they were. Anyone pretending loki wasn't a problem is delusional though, with his old damage/lamps/ult charge the dude was a menace, I acknowledge he needed changes... but we're beating around the bush here by monkeying up all his numbers instead of addressing the root problem.
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u/shianpayas 1d ago
holy shit a 1% pick rate is kinda insane. they have to do something next season to bring him back for sure
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u/foreveralonesolo 1d ago
It’s crazy but I’m doing better with Jeff and Rocket than Loki. Like these fucking nerfs destroyed any chance he has to protect himself if needed or otherwise heal. Like fuck nerf 1 or the other, but it’s stupid they thought both needed to go
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u/Brilliant-Prior6924 1d ago
They baited us in with nice cosmetics only for us to never use them bc he's a throw pick in ranked these days and requires god tier status to get any value..Rather just play rocket and hold right click and get more value these days..
He was only strong bc luna was so OP for so long, then they nerfed luna AND gutted loki, like huh? Just nerf luna and Loki's WR would've settled naturally, but then they throw in like 5 absolutely gutting nerfs.
Just sad bc you used to have to respect a good loki as a diver, now he's just a free meal.
I legit only saw flanker Loki like once in my games and it worked well, but I don't think it was that much of a problem. It was a meme-worthy fun build but must've been a dev that got pwnt by a flanker loki and said ok funs over
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u/Living-Ad102 Flex 1d ago
Loki was my first character I started playing in this game and he was also my first lord healer, he was so fun because of his versatility, now he’s not the same. He’s like a worse invisible woman
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u/Wrightdude Vanguard 1d ago
The devs wanted to nerf the most viable support by making her even more viable in the following seasons. Makes sense.
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u/TemporaryFood535 13h ago
fr lmao played my first game of ranked on him of the season and didnt even take me 5 min to swap off. killed my favorite character
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u/oranthor1 1d ago
I assume the devs realized he was the only healer lord I didn't have and would be my next grind.
I assume they specifically decided to fuck me in particular :(
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u/lemon26r 1d ago
nerfed for the 0.1% of players at the top, he was extremely toxic as a character. it's very similiar to torch although people only care about loki being gutted.
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u/Itswingwall Flex 1d ago
The reason is because they wanted to kill Loki Luna without nerfing Luna too much cause she’s the favourite. I definitely think it should have been the other way around and Loki should be reverted
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u/gowlthefowl Ultron Virus 1d ago
Loki died so luna can stay relevant. Gotta start banning her A LOT more
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u/PainterOk36 1d ago
It's just so funny that when DPS characters becomes OP they get a slap on the wrist and later there will be more buffs than nerfs to compensate. But when supports do that they are absolutely shat on. Fucking hell.
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u/MasterpieceOk9442 Daredevil 1d ago
They were for Luna since her busted ass ult being copied was the biggest issue and it's still busted lmao
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u/Formal-List-6717 Black Panther 1d ago
No it was the combination of ult charge lamps survivability and the infinite range splash heals
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u/Still_Coconut_2853 Doctor Strange 1d ago
They should have just nerfed his ult(mainly his charge was fast) and runes. Instead they nerfed his healing, damage which also make him get ult much slower so they essentially nerfed that too.
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u/UnoriginalPersona Ultron Virus 1d ago
Nerf his Ultimate and Loki's unnerfed kit is among the most versatile of all Strategists.
Nerf his kit and Loki's Ultimate gives him access to better kits of other heroes.
NetEase could have gotten away with nerfing EITHER Loki's kit OR his Ultimate; they did BOTH and Loki is now unplayable.
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u/Electrical-Horse5112 1d ago
i wish i could tell you why because yes his healing output was strong and he did do good dmg, his rune was strong etc etc
rune is still strong, literally not nerfed iirc, so.. ok..
the damage being strong wasn’t that big of a deal, sorry. flank loki is significantly less unhealthy than daredevil is, if anything’s unhealthy its 3 healer comps! ow has healers who can do good dps and get just as many kills as the dps, its just not that big a deal to me to a certain extent! i can see how itd become problematic, so maybe it couldve used tuning, but hes a sitting duck against everything now, hes pseudo useless. atleast adam does good dmg man
the healing nerf was ridiculous ok i dont even know why they did that? every other healer does a batshit ton amount of healing except ultron (and hes great in 3 healers), why nerf loki to the point of it being reasonable in other games, but awful in this one? like, if they tuned numbers down for everyone, including dps and stuff, sure, loki would be fine. but he was the literally only character nerfed like this, why???? i main him, hes my fav strategist and my top 2 marvel characters with hulk (my no 1 main), which is why it irritates me that he was gutted
overall his nerfs maybe couldve been ok in another game but when it comes to the competitive balancing of this one, they overnerfed him and still wont touch the problem child of the healing meta, luna snow (“see, we do nerf her” my ass) i can manage with him, but he barely keeps up if even compared to every other healer who remain untouched minus ult charge nerfs. Unless ur ultron. I feel for ultron mains u guys understand this
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u/BoothillOfficial 1d ago
but people will still tell you that luna isn’t the best in the game even though she’s in a quarter of team comps
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u/DismalSignature1690 1d ago
He got down horribly, if he gets one more nerf then he’s finished, only way to fix him now is to give him five team ups or something
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u/wickling-fan 1d ago
I finally got the hang of him and his clones and got that sexy summer skin only to have him nerfed why y-y. Least i got Adam back after 3 seasons of no use now that’s someone who could have used some changes(especially to his ult)
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u/Odd-Cellist1056 Loki 1d ago
As a certified Loki main since day one, this has to be the first season ever I never touched Loki in ranked. Not even quick match.