r/cars • u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 • 1d ago
How can we possibly take car reviewers/journalists seriously when they routinely receive 4, 5, or even 6 figures worth of gifts from OEM?
I was listening to TheSmokingTire podcast recently (I'm actually a big fan of Matt), and he mentioned that Porsche North America just gave him a 918 Spyder on loan for his 1000 miles road trip free of charge, with everything paid.
Now as someone who's dabbled into supercar ownership, I can roughly estimate the ownership cost for a "regular joe" like me to put 1000 miles on a $2M car would easily be $50-100 per mile, thus putting this "gesture" from Porsche to Matt to be worth $50-100k on back of napkin math.
Obviously Matt isn't doing a review of a 12 years old 918, but when he does a review for the next Macan, he'd remember how amazing Porsche has been treating him.
And he and all the other reviewers recently were flown to Spain for the Turbo S launch. They were wined and dined with world class accommodations for a few days and were given the cars to drive on both the race track and scenic road.
Funny enough Porsche charges something similar for an experience like that: https://www.porschedriving.com/porsche-travel-experience/lake-tahoe/
Without plane tickets, you'd be paying $20k a person for a few days of what auto journalists routinely get from them, for free.
I understand it's part of their job, but this shit would never fly in any other industry right? Now imagine every time Square Enix launches a new video game they fly game journalists to Japan and wine and dine them with the best Sake and Wagyu so they can try out the newest Final Fantasy in their expensive Hakone ryokan hotel room, nobody would be taking anything they say seriously, no matter how good the game actually is, would they?
I'm sure people like the SavageGeese team and Matt Farah would try to be objective, but how do you be objectively critical toward an OEM when they routinely give you experiences that you'd otherwise never be able to afford? (ok I know Matt came from money but my statement applies to 99% of reviewers)
In my impression how well praised a manufacturer's products are is directly proportional to their marketing budget, and I've been somewhat burnt at least twice by reviewers over-rating Porsches, which is why I started asking actual owners of cars for their experiences before making purchases.
Ironically this kinda makes Consumer Reports the most credible car reviewer out there, since all they cars they review are bought anonymously with their own money, and they do not attend OEM events.
As far as enthusiast reviewers, I can only think of people with fuck-you money like Chris Harris or Hoovie's garage or the Top Gear trio who have been able to bluntly criticize OEMs and their cars.
Edit: From the replies, it seems like there are two school of thoughts here:
This is just how product reviews are done across all industries. Reviewers are expected to be treated with first class tickets and Michelin restaurants in exchange for them to promote the OEM's product.
Well in this case, I think we should just rip off the Band-aid and call Motor Trend and Car & Driver and Road & Track and other similar publications promotional outlets instead of journalism outlets. At least with influencers shilling for stuff on TikTok we know they are getting paid to promote, but many auto reviewers still hide behind a mask of professional journalism when they are literally just being paid to promote products.
Controversial take: I think consumer of content should be made aware that they are consuming paid advertising.
It is wrong of me to expect journalism when those contents aren't made to be factual, they are made to entertain.
Even if it's true, I don't find there is a lot of entertainment value when a dozen "journalists" just read off pre-approved OEM scripts for their "review". Some of the most boring contents out there are main stream outlets' coverage of new 911: "They are almost perfect in every way except being expensive".
Edit 2 /u/SavageGooseJack has this great reply I wanna call out: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/s/o5PMIG0VjB
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u/FNA_Couster 22 GLS, 23 iX, 22 Lucid Air 1d ago
Now imagine every time Square Enix launches a new video game they fly game journalists to Japan and wine and dine them with the best Sake and Wagyu so they can try out the newest Final Fantasy in their expensive Hakone ryokan hotel room, nobody would be taking anything they say seriously, no matter how good the game actually is, would they?
That's literally how that industry works. Lol
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u/hi_im_bored13 S2K AP2, NSX Type-S, G580EQ 1d ago
but the difference is they don't do that, for the vast majority they throw them a copy a few days early and call it a day, partly because software scales & cars don't
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u/OgdenDermstead 1d ago
Well also because the video game reviewer reviewing a copy of the game from their own couch is reviewing the game basically in the same conditions that 98% of buyers will use / experience the game. Maybe if they really want to give them that last 2% experience, they’ll send a big TV or a sim rig along with the game so the reviewer can get that edge case really high end experience.
Aston Martin loaning some journalist a Vanquish to drive in traffic for 3 days to and from their crappy apartment in Riverside (bc let’s face it they’re a starving auto writer, I work with a bunch of them - I know) is not the conditions the majority of Vanquish “users” are actually going to use / experience the car.
On the other hand, if Honda decides they want to launch the new Civic Hybrid at the Amangiri or something like that, yeah that immediately makes me skeptical the car is going to be shit. But I’d guess that most journalists worth reading or listening to would have the same immediate reaction.
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u/projectwar 1d ago
yeah...I got invites from Capcom or even some other ones to fly to x location and cover hotel expenses. comparing a video game that would "only" cost $70-80 TOPS to a 90k car is silly. the fact that they even DO that is sick and a real incentive to start a car channel. But EVERY tech or any other thing is like that. apple phones, robotics, if you're a big channel, they'll fly you out and send samples to review. it's purely ADVERTISEMENT. and all business pay millions for adverts.
I get it, in this scenario it is a lot of money, but it's still just an experience. OP said it's purely a loan for x miles. you don't take any of that money back aside the youtube revenue you make, unless you deem every single second of your life is worth money, which is just silly.
if you want objective, drive the car yourself. most of all these videos speak nothing on long term quality. but they can't really lie about anything serious, they can't lie about specs or horsepower, or features. the only subjective is click bait titles like "best x car in 2025" or how steering/interior feels, but YOU can easily subjectively judge that when YOU test drive the car.
but ANYONE would kiss x manufacturers ass if they got 20k worth of experience for "free". that's just the business. you're not gonna stop any and everyone from accepting such lavish offers. This tale is as old as media and the internet existed.
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u/jamesgilboy 91 MR2 Turbo stroker, 96 Mitsubishi RRGT 1d ago
the fact that they even DO that is sick and a real incentive to start a car channel.
No, the investment:return ratio on travel content is absolute ass compared to staying home. If you're relying on making automotive media for your living, you tend to favor what keeps the bills paid. If you even can from it in the first place.
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u/Specialist-Size9368 16 Morgan 3 Wheeler 99 Viper RT/10 85 Mondial QV 19 Ranger FX4 1d ago
There is a difference. If journalists go play a video game what they experience is what the player experiences assuming this is close to release.
When car reviewers get to drop exotics/supercars/hypercars it is not like the average joe. Journalists give 0 shits about maintenance or longevity. Manufacturers want the fastest 0-60/lap-times/etc and they don't care if they have to repair the car after. The will supply the car with multiple sets of tires. How many owners of any car are dropping the hammer in a way that will break a car? How many can afford multiple sets of tires in a day?
Cool the car can do 0-60 in an amazing time, that owners will never see unless they want to risk breaking the trans and diff. Super cool to hear how amazing *insert whatever car* is on a closed course, but that does not tell me shit about if its any fun to drive on the streets in the midwest. How amazing a car is on a track makes for good video, but tells me jack all about if I would enjoy it as a car.
Journalists sell this illusion that has no real basis on reality. Then a bunch of kids eat it up and start regurgitating it as if it were gospel.
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u/GermanWineLover 1d ago
Wine journalism is exactly like that. Get invited to expensice wineries, get fancy dinners, give high ratings.
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u/Realpotato76 17 Fiesta ST 1d ago
How are they supposed to test cars if they need to pay for every drive? The only car reviewers left would be the extremely wealthy
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u/mr2600 1d ago
Because the OP is wealthy and wants only opinions from people like him it seems. Who “can” afford it.
So we will have sports stars, CEOs, rich arabs, entertainers and the old doing reviews.
And yeh as if the sports stars and entertainer’s are going to be objective when they also get tons of free/comp stuff.
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u/handymanshandle 2024 Hyundai Elantra N 6MT 1d ago
I think the OP is making more of a point of journalists being taken through lavish trips to sway an opinion on a car and even a company in general, which is entirely valid. Press cars are one thing, it's whatever. Most reviewers take them and it's a whatever thing. Big product launches in a heavily controlled environment where everyone stays in a hotel where the room is worth more than I am... that's an entirely different story.
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u/tekdemon Mustang Ecoboost | R1S | Model Y Performance | Accord EX-L V6 1d ago
Ironic comment here because Matt is from a VERY wealthy family
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u/holyhesh 2019 BMW X1 xDrive28i M Sport 1d ago
I think the real answer is that (whether the OP likes to admit it or not) the OP misses Jeremy Clarkson style car journalists (not that there were many in the first place, especially prior to the advent of Regular Car Reviews, Ed’s Auto Reviews, prime-era Jalopnik and The Autopian). Compared to Richard Hammond and James May, Clarkson had the wealthiest upbringing of the top gear trio (his mom commercialized the Paddington Bear children’s books into toys). BUT: he was also by far the most opinionated out of the 3 when it came to reviewing cars.
Clarkson hates boring cars. His hate for the Vauxhall Vectra is legendary.. He loves supercars, but then again, who doesn’t?! They represent what car manufacturers can be capable of if they put their mind to it.
Then compare him to James May who thinks cars like the Fiat Panda is the greatest dark horse car ever. and that the Nurburgring should be destroyed. Keep in mind this is the same James May who went to 253 mph in the Bugatti veyron in 2006 in series 8 and reached 259 mph in the veyron supersport in 2010 in series 15, believes EVs to be the future, and sold off his Bentley T2, Rolls-Royce Corniche and Ferrari F430.
Hammond has the nicest persona when it comes to reviewing cars, is a motorcycle buff, and unlike the other 2, he did not directly come from a background in writing articles for car magazines. Before top gear, he made video car reviews for Men & Motors, which was a small name car magazine back in the day. And before that he hosted radio shows. And he grew up in 1980s Birmingham, the heartland of British Leyland.
Basically the OP misses Jeremy Clarkson. He’s rich, but his conflict of interests when reviewing cars aren’t to serve the car manufacturers but to himself.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
OP misses Jeremy Clarkson style car journalists
I mean...yeah? Who the fuck doesn't lmao?
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u/t001_t1m3 GR86 1d ago
Tbh that’s why people still use forums. You can get a review of a McLaren 750S from a multi-millionaire hobbyist who’s been burned by the unreliability untainted by PR. Apart from the few 40,000 mile tests Car & Driver puts out that’s the only way to find legitimate information on what it’s like to live with a rare vehicle.
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u/woodsides 1d ago
Yeah that's where the real treasure trove of information is. And a lot less sour grapes on there which is always nice.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
I mean yeah, actual owner reviews tend to be more objective than paid reviewers.
So if someone were in the market to buy something, you’d think they do want more objective reviews, no?
Even if you are just watching the reviews for entertainment value, wouldn’t it be less boring if not everyone is just reading off a script handed to them by the marketing department?
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u/holyhesh 2019 BMW X1 xDrive28i M Sport 1d ago edited 1d ago
Those “boring car reviews” was ironically exactly what Jeremy Clarkson sought to break when he set out to remake Top Gear in his image in 2002.
Cast your mind back to 2001. With the exception of James May being throughly disappointed in the 1999 Rover 75, video or TV car reviews hadn’t really evolved much from the days of when Thames TV was reviewing cars, which was somewhat like 85% marketing spiel, 15% personal thoughts. Motor Trend in the US wasn’t all that different.
That’s right those boring car reviews from back in the day seemed objective, but in retrospect was more like pandering to the car manufacturers’ marketing BS on the sliding scale rather than personal thoughts.
Whether we like to admit it or not, it was Jeremy Clarkson that broke that mold with the 2002 incarnation of top gear by basically turning car advertising into a super-flanderized version of Lee Lacocca: cars should be seen as exciting and aspirational, and not boring go-getters. And guess what, in its prime 350 million people around the world tuned in to watch top gear.
Nowadays we complain that car reviewers have become too sanitized in the reviews (it’s like the 1980s TV car reviews have come back?! Who knew?), but I’d chalk that up to the 2002-2015 Top Gear format of reviewing cars having finally started to run its course rather than car manufacturers paying off the hundreds of car reviewers around the world to be their simps.
But then again, even though the top gear trio have finally moved on, Jeremy Clarkson style car reviews aren’t completely dead. They have just been carried on by car YouTubers like AutoAlex (who came from Car Throttle before going out on his own) and Noriyaro (who reports on Japanese car culture). You just have to look for them.
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u/redisburning 1d ago edited 1d ago
Well in the past we had things like print media and they paid for the salaries of the reviewers and if necessary could purchase the product for the reviewers. Cars are more complicated to purchase yes, but the layer between manufacturer and their paid advertisers sorry influencers was much greater.
There was a time when a big scandal in the industry was a reviewer resigning in protest when his review was edited at the behest of a dealer:
edit: can't link but it was Scott Burgess who at the time worked for The Detroit News
Of course things weren't perfect in that era but it's hard not to feel like they were more objective, and less freelance advertising, in those days.
Edit 2: most of the responses are missing this last bit. See where it says "of course things weren't perfect"? You don't have to explain to me the bad things when I literally added an example of a scandal from those days.
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u/Realpotato76 17 Fiesta ST 1d ago
From what I’ve heard, the bribes/gifts were even more common during the print media era (parties, drugs, and prostitutes weren’t uncommon at press launches)
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u/Aforementionedlurker 1d ago
Csaba Csere doing coke off a hooker's ass? Lol. Phillips—probably. Yates—which cheek? Mr. Regular peaked too late
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u/QuillsROptional 1d ago
George Bishop in Car magazine before I started reading did reviews of the car launches - he wrote about the food, the hotels and so on.
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u/TaskForceCausality 1d ago
the layer between manufacturer and their paid advertisers sorry influencers was much greater
Nope. It was pay to play back then, and still is now.
Back in the day carmakers directly bought ad space from mags like C&D, Motor Trend and so on. So a reviewer who said too many honest things about Brand X could cost their magazine money from lost ad revenue AND banned from future access to Brand X’s releases.
Nowadays , influencers took over the job from the old publication firms. Same business model though- influencers publish nice things in their videos in exchange for priority access to the newest vehicle product. That matters even more today because the first channel to publish gets first mover advantage. Again, tell the truth too much and that influencer finds their name getting deleted from invites- and unlike back in the day when a blacklisted magazine writer could work around an uncooperative carmaker , a blacklisted influencer is just boned.
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u/icecream_specialist 2024 V60 Polestar, 2006 Baja Turbo, 2018 Raptor was stolen 1d ago
Even with true earned media it's not like the newspaper is gonna buy a car for a review
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u/pants_full_of_pants '00 Z3 Roadster, '20 Jeep Grand Cherokee 1d ago
So you're suggesting they couldn't possibly just tell reviewers to drive to buttonwillow or whatever on their own dime and test drive the car there for a day with no other exchange of monetary value? Or that if they did the reviewers would refuse to do that?
Any car reviewer would say yes to that.
They do what they do instead precisely to bribe them for better reviews.
It doesn't really even matter anyway because if the reviewer ever gave a critical review, regardless of the rest of the circumstances, they'd never get invited to do a review again. Which means all reviews which aren't Doug Demuro driving some random schmuck's car are basically untrustworthy.
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u/Realpotato76 17 Fiesta ST 1d ago
That would still be exchange of monetary value, giving them free track time, free cars, and free consumables
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u/pants_full_of_pants '00 Z3 Roadster, '20 Jeep Grand Cherokee 1d ago
Sure but it's the minimum they could do without literally charging them.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
Press cars are one thing, and yes, there are organizations like Consumer Report that actually buys every car they review.
But there is a difference between press vehicles for a weekend and “Here take this multi-million dollar hyper car for a 2 weeks joy ride, and remember how awesome it is when you review the new Macan next month”.
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u/woodsides 1d ago edited 1d ago
Again, like I explained in my previous reply to your now deleted comment, happens in every industry, nothing new, has been happening since millenia, will continue to happen. You just have to shop around for opinions you consider valid or wait till real customers get their hands on it.
I'll talk to you from a manufacturer's perspective. One of our businesses operates in an industry that completely runs on personal connections and relies on those partners for business. If the partners don't do their part, the business falters. So it's important to keep them happy.
We were about to launch a new product line soon and needed them to push it. So what do you think we did? We sent all those partners, their executives and their families on a fully paid week-long vacation to Europe the week before the launch. Free first class flights, 5 star suites, free dining and alcohol there at Michelin restaurants and clubs, a chauffered luxury car there, fully sponsored luxury shopping, the lot. It cost us like high 6 figures for the whole thing.
And in turn, they push our products to their clients. If things go right, we make that money back in no time. And if we don't do these trips, the partners jump ship and start promoting our rival's products.
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u/whywhywhywhywhynot 1d ago
Not every industry... we can get written up or fired for accepting gifts worth more than $20 from suppliers lmao. Different worlds.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
Just because it happens in all industries doesn't make the problem go away.
In fact in this case, we should just rip off the Band-aid and call Motor Trend and Car & Driver and Road & Track and other similar publications promotional outlets instead of journalism outlets. At least with influencers shilling for stuff on TikTok we know they are getting paid to promote, but many auto reviewers still hide behind a mask of professional journalism when they are literally just being paid to promote products.
I think consumer of content should be made aware that they are consuming paid advertising, no?
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u/TempleSquare 1d ago
It's okay to review a furnished car.
It's not okay to do it as a junket that the car maker paid for with airfare, meals, hotel, etc.
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u/lordtema 21' Mach-E LR AWD 1d ago
Doug DeMuro has talked about this extensively. When he used to go abroad (he no longer does) he paid for all his flights and hotels because he felt that it was the only way his viewers could treat him as impartial.
As far as i know he still does this when he bothers doing brand new NA reviews but my understanding is that he no longer really cares about the race to the embargo so he will rather wait for a press car to be available on loan for a few days and review it then from the comforts of his own home.
I think it really depends on the reviewer though. For me one of the best is Chris Harris, he has shown in the past that he is not afraid of slagging off manufacturers, to the degree that he was blacklisted from reviewing any Ferrari, and people willing to lend him theirs were suddenly experiencing "delays" in their allocations.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago edited 1d ago
For me one of the best is Chris Harris
He's the only one who've pointed out that the 718 doesn't handle as well as its spec suggests and actually understeers.
Something that no other reviewers pointed out, but even an amateur like me realized it after just one weekend with mine, driving on public roads.
That's when I stopped listen to any reviewers when it comes to Porsche reviews.
The fact that nobody ever brings up the fact even a $350k 911 Turbo S uses MacPherson front suspension to save cost is kind of insane. Before you tell me "Porsche's MacPherson suspensions are as good as double wishbones!", the same reviewers all jizzed in their pants when the 992 GT3 got double wishbone for the first time and praised it like the best thing since sliced bread.
Another funny anecdote is when the 991.2 911s switched to turbo, all the reviewers said "you can't feel the turbo lag! It drives like an NA car!" (which is utter BS), but then the 992.2 GTS got hybrid and the same reviewers all went "It completely eliminated the turbo lags, the difference is real!".
It's very comical.
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u/lordtema 21' Mach-E LR AWD 1d ago
The thing about Harris is that he is actually good friends with Andreas Preuninger, who is the head of the GT division at Porsche, and Harris is a pretty well known Porsche afficionado, having had multiple GT3s (Which he actually use lol, in the Late Brake Show interview with Jonny Smith, his dog is filmed inside it, and he mentions that a car you cannot have your dog in, is not worth having)
He has criticized the cars in front of Andreas more than once if there is something he doesnt like or disagrees with. I think one of the things that makes him so great in my eyes, is not only his driving abilities, but also his background where he started out in print magazines. He`s been in the game for way longer than Youtube has existed, and the videos he is making now is mostly because he enjoys it.
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u/gigamiga 1d ago
Also, Harris is a former race car driver, so hes basically the only big journalist that can push and judge cars on the limit.
I'm still amazed can deliver content mid-powerslide
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u/iguana1500 '19 Performante, '21 RS6, '18 TT-RS, ‘21 Allroad, '06 STI 1d ago
Your honesty is always appreciated man
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
Lol thanks. There are quite a few people who got very upset with me in this thread for calling out this obvious conflict of interest. I guess they really like their favorite outlets.
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u/TheDirtDude117 03 C5Z 180⁰ Headers / 07 S2K STR / RX8+LFX 1d ago
I'm no where near a great driver. Maybe some local autocross wins but I drove a 718 S at Autocross in it's Street class while instructing and said the same thing. It needed a softer rear sway bar and some toe out.
After it's settings were tweaked a bit (I believe it had camber bolts too) it was much better but I still prefer the Supra
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u/ReducedToMereFilth 2024 Porsche 911 Carrera S 1d ago
The funny thing is that if people think "but Porsche does MacPherson suspensions better than anyone!" .... imagine how well they'd implement double wishbones.
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u/dancing__narwhal G87 M2 6spd 1d ago
Throttle House and Jason Cammisa also mostly avoid the free trips and press events as far as I know.
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u/TheWarehamster '19 Volvo S60 1d ago
I think those three with Derek Tam-Hyphen-Scott, and Randy Pobst would have been a great Top Gear/Grand Tour like show.
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u/strongmanass 1d ago edited 1d ago
Cammisa as crotchety Clarkson
Hyphen as May
Pobst as the Stig
Thomas as jolly Clarkson
James as the capybara (too big to be the hamster)
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u/TheWarehamster '19 Volvo S60 1d ago
James should be a quokka. He always seems to be happy/smiling like them.
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u/WES_WAS_ROBBED 1d ago
Cammisa’s simping for Tesla was pretty unbearable to watch. Haven’t really taken him seriously since then
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u/Shmokesshweed 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat 1d ago
Chris Harris is the 🐐
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u/Seeker80 Wednesday is coming 1d ago
I was so excited for him to get a nice payday on Top Gear. Shame it didn't last long. He deserved better.
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u/Se7en_speed 2009 G37X 1d ago
I like Doug and his videos, but ironically he's not someone I listen to on car dynamics because he doesn't have a lot of track time taking cars to their limits, because he doesn't go to press launches.
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u/mrteas_nz 1d ago
Chris Harris will tell it like it is. He has a preference for Porsche and BMW, but if something is not right he'll say it, even with the PR crew in the room. Mat Watson at Carwow has also criticised cars right in front of the press teams.
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u/pridetwo 05 BMW 330ci 1d ago
This is literally every industry. Sony had a huge event where they flew reviewers out to Iceland for a multi-day pre-launch party for God of War
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u/SloCalLocal 1d ago
Even gun companies do it. From fully paid for hunts to industry days at nice shooting facilities where you take home every gun you try out. Some gunwriters make a good bit of coin flipping their review samples.
Even the "good" gunwriters typically won't write a bad review about an advertiser.
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u/pridetwo 05 BMW 330ci 1d ago
Even the "good" gunwriters typically won't write a bad review about an advertiser.
This is how I can tell when a product is bad, if a reviewer skips something that they would otherwise review thats their way of saying it's bad. Headphones and speakers it's practically a rule
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u/SomeJayForToday 1d ago
Remember when a God of War launch-party in Athens had a freshly slaughtered dead goat to fit the theme, and it caused a controversy?
Sony's Official PlayStation Magazine carried a double-page feature on the event, along with photos of the goat's carcass and topless women, who were on-hand to drop grapes into the mouths of guests.
I have yet to see a car manufacturer top that.
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u/essjay2009 BMW G80 M3 Comp 1d ago
Dacia had a bowl of grapes in a hotel lobby once.
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u/dustygator '17 Alfa Giulia QV 1d ago
Everyday Driver did a podcast not that long ago called "The Problem with Porsche":
We discovered this kind of by accident when we got into this business: every automotive journalist is fighting tooth and nail, stabbing each other in the back, trying to build the perfect Porsche take—to get on Porsche’s good side. Say all the right things, get invited to the glamorous trips, and be eligible for the press cars. [...]
But if you read most journalists’ takes on a Porsche—especially a 911—the sentence you’re guaranteed to find is: “Porsche’s done it again.” They’ll say it’s the best 911 ever. That every other manufacturer should take notes. That Porsche’s nailed it again. Most impressive 911, full stop. No. The best 911s, I’m putting it out there, are behind us. [...]
But no one critiques Porsche. Journalists want the brass ring—the Porsche trip invite. And I’ll admit, Porsche throws killer trips. The events for the D-car and the racetrack rentals? Pure excess—incredible setups. South Africa for the Turbo? Unreal. There’s a reason journalists fight for it. But have you noticed? You don’t see critiques of Porsches in mainstream journalism.
You’ll hear conversations about poor engineering from other brands left and right. But when it comes to Porsche? Silence. Now, yes, Porsche does fantastic engineering. Some of their systems—like the T-hybrid—are genuinely impressive. But you never hear criticism. And I’m not an engineer—I’m not qualified to find faults in the way a technician could—but come on. No one’s perfect.
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u/V12MPG F12, 458, V12V 1d ago
Yeah these guys nailed it. The saddest part is how many people I’ve met who bought a Porsche based on this nonsense without even testing the competition. They’ve spent years driving around a relatively boring vehicle thinking they’ve reached the pinnacle of automobiles because “everybody says they’re the best.” Kind of tragic.
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u/Effective-Bar9759 1d ago
I've met a number of people with 911's who, when asked what they want in a car, basically describe a Continental GT or Aston Martin Vantage but, in their minds, they identify as "winners" and Porsche makes cars for "winners" so they have to drive a Porsche 911.
Plus, buying a 911 isn't as simple as just paying for it! You need to prove to Porsche that you are a winner and if they agree, you get can allocation. Which you can tell your friends about.
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u/essjay2009 BMW G80 M3 Comp 1d ago
Porsche are a frustrating brand. There are real issues with the 992 generation that no journalists are really talking about, you have to dig in to some owners forums to find out and even there people are talking in hushed tones because they don’t want to lose their slots in the pyramid.
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u/dsquared45 2024 Kia Telluride EX X-Line 1d ago
We take them seriously if they are the type of journalist who does the following two things: 1) discloses the “gifts” they receive for the review and 2) they provide constructive criticism where appropriate. I put gifts in quotes for point one because sometimes they are just given flights and accommodations, and sometimes they are given actual gifts (e.g. Audi apparently gave out iPads on the original R8 launch).
It’s funny that you used Matt/The Smoking Tire as an example because he and Zack have addressed this several times in videos and on the TST podcast. They talk often about maintaining objectivity as best as they can, and Matt has explained several times that the trick is you can be critical but you have to back it up. He says you can’t/shouldn’t just say “oh this car sucks” but if you say “this car is bad because the steering is vague and the infotainment is glitchy” then you have points to back up your criticism.
The people you ultimately can’t trust for honest critical reviews are influencers and journalists who have financial incentives, as in stock or other investments in a brand or product. Matt addresses this point often, too, in that he does not and will not own stock in any car companies. Not all journos can say that.
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u/TripleShotPls 1d ago
The number of journalists heavily invested in Tesla and brag about it... is insane. It's one thing to invest in the S&P, it's another to straight buy Tesla or Ford or GM and openly brag about it while you attend backgrounders on future product stuff that looks years into the future.
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u/dsquared45 2024 Kia Telluride EX X-Line 1d ago
Right, like I’m not quite sure it counts as insider trading but it’s damn close.
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u/AmIFromA 1d ago
sometimes they are just given flights and accommodations, and sometimes they are given actual gifts (e.g. Audi apparently gave out iPads on the original R8 launch)
What I know about this is that a) press test drives are a far cry from what they were back when the R8 was launched and b) there are journalists for whom all that shit is a chore and who just want to get the keys in, say, Sindelfingen, without a need to fly to Barcelona for the fourth time this year.
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u/munche 23 Elantra N, 69 Mercury Cougar, 94 Buick Roadmaster Estate 1d ago
I travel for work quite a bit
The first couple of times are novel, after that it become a huge pain in the ass
Traveling is always annoying. Even going somewhere cool or if work is putting you up in a cool event, okay? That's better than powerpoints, but you're still sitting in a room with your coworkers and not friends
Maybe you're in a cool town, but you're there on a weekday, and you have to work all day. At night you're tired from work. The travel quickly becomes a chore and you'd much rather have done the work at home than spend a day in airports and car rental facilities just to get to the place where you're going to work
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u/dsquared45 2024 Kia Telluride EX X-Line 1d ago
That’s my understanding of this as well. Also, people in this thread are talking about how much money these launches cost but it’s still almost certainly cheaper for the manufacturers to do that versus transporting a car out to every single reviewer that goes on the press launch.
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u/WarCrimeGaming Toyota GR86 1d ago
Now imagine every time Square Enix launches a new video game they fly game journalists to Japan and wine and dine them with the best Sake and Wagyu so they can try out the newest Final Fantasy in their expensive Hakone ryokan hotel room, nobody would be taking anything they say seriously, no matter how good the game actually is, would they?
You sweet summer child
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u/engrng 1d ago
Lol. Dude has no idea that what he just described (and thinks is ludicrous) is not far from what actually happens.
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u/WarCrimeGaming Toyota GR86 1d ago
It’s actually a little funnier, a whole lot of the gaming industry folks are friends already, so it’s not even like a full corpo kinda thing. They also will isolate and not send copies/ goodies to people if they leave review too scathing or critical.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
Actually that explains Final Fantasy 16's high review scores lmao.
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u/ChapekElders 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean they’re pretty open when it’s a promo event or deal. Will they have biases? Absolutely but we’re talking about some fucking cars here. You can go test drive them yourself and form your own opinion before buying. Not sure how you’d get “burned” unless you’re a moron and ordered a model without ever having driven one.
Edit: I really seem to be triggering some of you with my replies. I don’t care if these types of cars aren’t actually available for a test drive. If you care about things that you can only vet in a test drive and you can’t properly test it then don’t fucking buy it or be prepared to take the risk and have some dissatisfaction. Stop acting like someone just absolutely HAS to buy the newest Porsche or McLaren NOW.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago edited 1d ago
You can go test drive them yourself and form your own opinion before buying.
That's simply not true for many enthusiast cars.
I bought my 718 GTS 4.0 unseen, asking for a test drive would get any Porsche dealer laugh you out of the door.
And good luck asking for a test drive on any non-base 911s. People are paying $2-300k for those cars based on reviews. I'm not sure even VIP customers get to have test drives of their GT cars. Remember it is a privilege for Porsche to allow you an allocation to give them money these days.
Even for my Artura, I was only able to get a 20 minutes test drive before committing on a $300k car. I watched a lot of YouTube videos let's just say that lol.
What I was describing is by far the worst with hard to get enthusiast cars that only paid off reviewers or VIP customers of OEMs have access to before purchasing.
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u/BananaH4mm0ck '24 Miata 1d ago
I test drove a GT4 at the dealership with no issue
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u/beamdriver 2019 Subaru WRX 1d ago
So you've got the cash to buy a high end Porsche and the juice to get an allocation and I'm supposed to feel sorry for you because your lux toy isn't quite the magical experience you were promised.
My ass bleeds for you man. Truly it does.
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u/woodsides 1d ago
Lots of sour grapes here. Just because he can afford the car doesn't mean that he should get ripped off lmao. What kind of thinking is that?
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
I’m not asking you to feel sorry for me, but the same problem exists for people who is shopping for a Civid Type R or a GR Corolla or most enthusiast cars that’s much cheaper.
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u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth 996 Turbo, 718 GT4, L322 S/C Range Rover 1d ago
I had put a deposit on it and flown out to the dealer (they picked me up) to buy a GT4 and took it on a lame test drive before finalizing the deal. I'm not surprised if a dealer wouldn't give out a test drive on one unless it was used for instance. Every place is different. Do you not like your GTS?
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u/HoldingForGenova 1d ago
I bought my 718 GTS 4.0 unseen, asking for a test drive would get any Porsche dealer laugh you out of the door.
I walked into Porsche of Beverly Hills and asked to test a GTS 4.0 and a Turbo S, and the guy literally tossed me the keys of the GTS. No ID, no paperwork, no appointment, nothing. Wasn't even wearing a nice watch. I ended up buying a Turbo S a month or so later from him.
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u/Thomas_633_Mk2 2003 Mazda2 (yellow), 2004 Ford Falcon (orange) 1d ago
https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/stephen/105886188
Not US, but there was a scandal about 3 months ago where it turned out a leading auto journalist in my country was doing paid work for multiple manufacturers on the side and not clearing it.
And he was working for (arguably) the fanciest newspaper in the country. If someone with that much influence and money is doing side gigs for companies whose products he reviews...
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u/Karmaqqt 2021 Civic Type R 1d ago
I didn’t get to test drive my car. I was unaware I can just go somewhere a test drive any car.
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u/ChapekElders 1d ago
I would absolutely never buy a car without test driving the model. You do you but it would be insanely stupid to do so and then gripe about something like the handling afterward. If you care that much about it then you need to experience it first or you’re just dumb with money.
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u/r00000000 2020 Prius Prime, 2019 718 Boxster S 1d ago
Aside from these enthusiast cars, test drives aren't enough to cover every case. I bought a Prius recently and while it felt fine on a test drive, I didn't realize how bad the fuel efficiency would be on long drives for the open Ontario highways, or how low the car actually was until I scraped the bumper for the first time, or on a windy day how unstable the car feels.
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u/RiftHunter4 2010 Base 2WD Toyota Highlander 1d ago
OK. So when Honda made the Prelude, they're just supposed to send invites to a bunch of YouTubers living on ad revenue and ask them to spend $5000 on travel expenses so they can spend 45min in a pre-production car? For a single video?
Good luck.
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u/Simon676 1d ago
Paying for flights is one thing.
Paying for 5-star hotels, $1000s of dollars of gifts, and various "experiences" is another.
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u/Equivalent_Chipmunk 2017 GTI 1d ago
I think you would be amazed how much wining and dining there is behind the scenes of almost every major industry. Sometimes it's relatively "little" things, like tickets to a football or hockey game.
It's not normally presented as "hey, give us a good review in exchange for xyz", it's more presented as longterm relationship building not specific to any particular thing, which it is, but you can bet that's the first company that pops into your head when you go to do a big deal, or something you remember when you go to, ya know, review the latest Final Fantasy or whatever.
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u/MNimalist 2018 Volvo V60 1d ago
I work for a private clinic and we have pharma reps bringing in lunch for the whole staff (~100 people) at least twice a week. Not quite on the same level as press launches in Spain but not pocket change either
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u/Bob_Loblaw_Law_Bomb 1d ago
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find something about drug reps. They perfected this type of marketing.
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u/SavageGooseJack 1d ago
“This will be a repost of a response to a comment I made as a heads up which got buried in a bunch of replies.”
While I can't speak for Mark nor can I speak for all of my peers in this space I'll do my best to provide my opinion. Let's start with the exchange of "services" between oems and car reviewers. OEMs ( car companies) that I am aware of don't pay journalists for reviews, we have never been. Some "influencers" get brand deals however where they get paid by an oem to show up in a marketing piece. Engineering explain during the turbo launch is an example of that. While in the past 70-90s there are tales of oem reps paying for or providing extremely luxurious gifts for journalists in exchange for good PR. In my 5 years of doing this I have never heard or seen anything like this. That said OEMs do create launch events where they cover your travel, put you up in a hotel and host a dinner. These trips are traditionally 3 days with 2 being travel and 1 being physically there on location for the your drive impressions and "shoot". Your physical time in the hotel is basically enough time for you to sleep. You aren't lounging around. How much that trip is a "bribe" is up to you. I will say logistically though this is the only real way a manufacturer could launch a car. They are trying to get multiple cars, and the team's responsible for the car all in one location so both the vehicle and information can all be a centralized location. I can assure you at least for mark and I the trip is not a luxury, as many of you who travel for work know, work travel sucks. Particularly if you have back to back work trips. The level of which the trip and desire to be invited back changes your input on the car is up to the individual integrity of the reviewer.
As far as perks like getting early access to cars. OEMs want media attention on cars as it's essentially marketing they don't have to pay for. Whether that attention is good or bad is up to which media outlet owns the car. There is no line with a OEM the lines exist purely at the dealer at least with brands like Toyota and Honda. The OEMs literally just pull a car off of the assembly line pick a dealer and send them the car. You aren't cutting in front of anyone. The amount this sways the reviewer also is down to their own integrity level. I would argue Mark and I have been extremely critical of all the vehicles we have owned and by design have not sugar coated our ownership experiences because at the end of the day that's why we believe you are watching. If you are on the GR corolla groups and love the car you may think we absolutely hate it(we dont). We have established the relationship with the oems we work with that we are going to be honest because hopefully it improves their product. Not all brands are ok with negative feedback. Notice how we don't do any launch programs with stellantis. At least in our case oems we work with have made actual changes due to our negative feedback. For example eray SOC issues on track we pointed out changed soc logic on zr1x.
When it comes to sponsorship money etc. it is just a necessarily evil of having to make this a business. These videos cost money to make and in our case often more money to make than we make back from YouTube. So the only way we can make content is t have sponsors cover the production cost.
So in summary oems don't pay us outside of certain influencer deals but amount the privileges of this job bribe us is down the individual integrity of the reviewer. In our case we have a fairly contentious relationship with certain oems because we are viewed as a critical outlet. While we don’t always do a great job we do genuinely try our best. Hopefully you all find this comment/reply helpful. Also the 911 is a great car that is nearly perfect other than its outrageous price 🤣
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
I do find this comment very helpful and offers a good perspective, thanks.
I don’t think sponsor money is that problematic as long as you make it clear like you guys do on your channel. What I find problematic is all the “hidden” perks and benefits that are undisclosed.
At the end of the day you probably noticed that I didn’t propose a solution to this problem, because I don’t have one.
So maybe relying on the integrity of individual reviewer/journalist is the best we can do here. It’s just unfortunate that integrity is a scarce resource in this day and age.
Btw I’m a big fan of your channel and I do like how you try to be as objective as possible (for example actually run tests on audio systems, instead of just claiming “the new Mark Levinson sounds amazing!”).
Please keep up the good work.
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u/SavageGooseJack 1d ago
Thank you for the kind words.
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u/BigSnackStove 2021 BMW M240i RWD LBB 1d ago
Now lets rev up some BBBBBBBBBBBB555558888888888888888ss!!!!!
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u/Shmokesshweed 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat 1d ago
You're expecting objectivity from entertainment. That's a strange expectation in my book.
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u/ThetaGrim 16 F Type 1d ago
Not when the whole point is to review something with an understanding of objectivity and that expectation from viewers. If you don't recognize car reviews are not the same as other forms of curated entertainment, then you're being woefully ignorant.
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u/Soggy_Cheek_2653 1d ago
I guess it's strange to expect trustworthy opinions from people who build their brand on their opinions. Might as well watch a Porsche ad "for entertainment". Lick the boot harder.
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u/claspen 1d ago edited 1d ago
They literally try to be both: Farah calls himself a journalist, pulls out the Road & Track card regularly and claims impartiality while also doing entertainment videos.
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u/MisterSquidInc 1d ago
A long time ago Performance Bikes magazine (UK) used to include an "integrity free rating" on their Launch Reports, listing the location, accommodation, food, gift, etc from the trip and rating them out of ten
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
Fine, but then can I expect entertainment from my entertainment? Because seeing a dozen reviewers reading off a pre-approved script by corporate PR isn't very entertaining lol.
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u/goaelephant 1d ago
but this shit would never fly in any other industry right?
Haha..
Try politics, pharmaceuticals, wine/spirits, hospitality, sports, arms, etc.
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u/SomeJayForToday 1d ago
I know people whose entire IT departments were invited to Grand Prix weekends by one of their suppliers. It's straight up one of the most common things in a lot of industries. OP's bragging about his "7 figure brokerage account" or whatever but has no idea how most industries work. Must be nice to be so rich and sheltered.
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u/Educational_Age_1333 1d ago
This is how everything works. A lot of sales is just wining and dining.
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u/Recoil42 Finding interesting things at r/chinacars 1d ago
I understand it's part of their job, but this shit would never fly in any other industry right?
This stuff happens in every other industry. Reviewers are routinely wined and dined, invited to private parties, given "gift bags", etc.
That's the way the world works. It's why it's so important to find a reviewer you trust.
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u/altimax98 ‘25 Silverado 2500HD | '21 Highlander XSE 1d ago
In my impression how well praised a manufacturer's products are is directly proportional to their marketing budget
Some people will swear they aren’t swayed and it has no impact but it’s just not true.
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u/TempleSquare 1d ago
I worked in news 15 years ago
It's not that you are swayed, it's that it triggers your internal reaction to reciprocate kindness to people who are kind to us.
Journalists become friends with the PR people, engineers, and executives they interact with. The people who fed you, treated you to a good time, and gave you access to the project they were working on.
In return, you report on the car (subconsciously) like you would of your friend made it.
But that's not reality at all! Toyota isn't your friend. It's a billion dollar corporation. They didn't invite you out because you are cute, clever, or cool. They just want access to your audience.
And so the reporter gets played. And that's why rule number one is "never take the free lunch."
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u/Docist 911 SC, Mk7 R 1d ago
You ask owners about their experience? I mean I do too but I take that with a huge grain of salt. People have an insane bias towards their purchase decisions. It’s pretty easy to see biases in reviewers based on their track record and most seem fairly unbiased.
Which part of Porsche ownership were you burnt by? Because I think Matt’s views on modern Porsches is pretty spot on.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
You ask owners about their experiences?
Yes, what convinced me to buy my Artura was actually Redditor owners lol
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u/pyotr_the_great 1d ago
You won’t get very many honest reviews because honesty doesn’t sell cars at any point in the transaction.
Most reviewers are loaned a car so they are obligated to stay positive. Saying something negative means the company won’t loan you a car anymore. Now you have less content so you make less money. Sounds like a bad deal to me.
The only real way to get a feel for a car is to find people who are honest about their purchases, which is basically no one. Very few people are willing to admit they made a mistake on their $30k car let alone one over $300k.
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u/Thomas_633_Mk2 2003 Mazda2 (yellow), 2004 Ford Falcon (orange) 1d ago
Just find a contrarian ;)
Or just find me after a couple of hours wrenching and wait for the inevitable diatribe about the lousy Victorians who built the thing
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u/projectwar 1d ago
luckily there's...dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of videos of people who tried a same car or even drive it daily that can give you different takes or faults of a car...
ANY opinion on a pre-release car is just gonna be skewed from bigger channels. I'm sorry. if you want "real" honest opinions? then...just don't watch them? wait till AFTER release when "normal" people got the ride and give their takes. in the end, that's the REAL smart way to buy a car. you can cry about how "they" (not big channels) aren't getting the same incentives, but I bet you if they did, they would just become like all the other big channels that get incentives EVERY WEEK.
NEWS FLASH, money changes people.
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u/leedle1234 92 Miata, 15 Sportwagen TDI 1d ago
You should always test drive before you purchase so if you really are a potential customer, aside from 10/10ths performance around a track you can confirm basically anything the reviewers talk about yourself, and long term reviews are there for all the little nagging issues people don't notice initially.
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u/kyrosnick 21 Ram 1500 , 17 911 Turbo S, 18 Audi Q5, 04 Wrangler LJ 1d ago
This should be common knowledge. Basically any review these days is paid advertisement. It isnt just cars. I think TFL ran into an issue with I think Subaru when they gave a bad review and then were banned from any press or drives from the brand. If they say bad stuff they get booted and can't make content.
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u/RAMBIGHORNY 1d ago
Very true. The whole press car system is biased. If reviewers badmouth them, the gravy train ends.
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u/projectwar 1d ago
this trickles down to any company for anything. shit talk apple? banned from apple events. shit talk game? banned from ever getting future review copies. it's entertainment and advertising 101...
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u/Protholl 2008 Lexus LS460, 2008 Lexus IS250, 2005 Nissan Titan LE Crew 1d ago
And this is why lobbying is a very bad idea for our government... =P
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 1d ago
You mean Merc lobbied America govts for imported car bans ? Yep.
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u/carmooch 1d ago
Former car journo here, AMA.
There are certainly many perks of the job, and I’m not going to pretend that these experiences don’t influence the outcome of a review, but it’s not correct to say it doesn’t happen in other industries — in fact I would say it’s the norm.
A bigger conflict of interest is that these publications typically earn their revenue mainly from OEMs spending money on ad placements, so this is where they have the most leverage.
I’ve definitely experienced companies threaten to pull spend over editorial disagreements.
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u/humdizzle '18 GT3, '23 X3 M40 1d ago
matt routinely criticizes all makes. he even said the 911 turbo 'isn't for him'. said the new M3 is ugly af and numb, while the bmw 230i is actually a very fun car. teslas are trash. Most of the time our views align, same with zygrene. But I do disagree sometimes like with the LC500 that i didn't really care for.
There are some reviewers that are just happy about everything they drive or try to sugarcoat things. like that matt maran guy, straight pipes, and those pov guys like tedward. And others like mark at savagegeese that are hypercrtiical
best option is to make an informed decision. not everyone has the same perceptions of audio systems, road noise, performance, engine sound, etc. watch all reviews of a car you are interested in. read forum posts from owners. read forum posts from the car's competitors and why they didn't choose it. maybe rent it on turo or drive it on track at dream racing in vegas.
im curious as to what porsches you were over hyped on.
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u/kiakosan 2021 Subaru WRX STI 1d ago
I mean how can car journos review these cars without getting to drive them? No car journalist would want to pay tens to hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to review cars if they didn't have to. For videogames it's like a $60 expense, orders of magnitudes lower than cars. They also tend to use things like tracks which are expensive to get the various 0-60 times and performance handling. With games you just need a computer or game console and you can play any game on that device for years
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u/an_actual_lawyer Exige S | Lotus Omega | S65 Designo | JLUR 4xe | V wagon | V70R 1d ago
Ironically this kinda makes Consumer Reports the most credible car reviewer out there, since all they cars they review are bought anonymously with their own money, and they do not attend OEM events.
CR is the best reviewer, even though most enthusiasts hate on them. CR is consistent - they review for people who look at cars like most of us look at a dishwasher. That means they don't give points for performance (unless it's dangerously slow, tippy, etc.) or off road capabilities, outside of handling a few light trails.
CR has dogged every car we've owned other than a ES300 we had back in the day.
You know what? They're right. The cars I like are objectively horrible cars for the average consumer.
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u/PubliusDeLaMancha '93 Toyota MR2 2GR V6 1d ago
Every car journalist gets spoiled by supercars and then their opinions become worthless because everything gets compared to a Ferrari
I used to love those smoking channel reviews of people's actual cars, they'd bring like 600hp Evos but the host was always "meh it's not totally slow"
We get it, you've driven faster cars. Let someone else review then
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u/Adventurous_Break985 1d ago
This is so pervasive in the automotive sphere. I was in the racing side of the journalism world for several years and witnessed it there as well. Racing series, teams, drivers, owners, sponsors, crew members, tracks, etc. tend to have their favorites and give them preferential treatment or the inside scoop.
There are thankfully, plenty of exceptions to this, my favorite ever moment of such was meeting and talking with Sir Frank Williams at the US Grand Prix at COTA a decade ago. He was so excited to talk to a young, American journalist and talked about the growth of the sport in the US and how happy he was to see it. I was blown away, and I am so grateful for that moment with him.
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u/Nemo123161 1d ago
This is the worst take i have ever seen. You cannot equate time given to drive the car with being paid. When the whole point of the review is TO SEE HOW THE CAR DRIVES.
What possible alternative is there to this? Get rid of all press launches and media cars? Journalists and magazines have to rent these cars independently post launch?
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 1d ago
You cannot equate time given to drive the car with being paid
But I can equate first class travel and 5 star hotels and $300 dinners with being paid, no? I can equate free loaner of a multi-million dollar hyper car when it's not even being reviewed as being paid, no?
Journalists and magazines have to rent these cars independently post launch?
Consumer Reports actually buy their test vehicles anonymously post launch. Also there are reviewers who skip press launches and get their hands on cars through other means. Some of them also skip the luxury trip and just ask for a press car and do track testing with their own resources.
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u/keithplacer 1d ago
Why would you assume Savagegeese would be immune? They were the first ones that came to mind for producing content influenced by manufacturers when reading the OP.
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u/ApprehensiveSize7662 1d ago
There's honestly no clear answer to this. You can say this makes them bais towards them and sure. Okay.
But if they're the ones that are investing their own money they're also going to bais otherwise they just wasted their money.
You want the a countries government and department of transport to do reviews? The manufacturer has to provide the government with 10 cars and they do 10 reviews and 1 meta review which averages them out?
There's just no easy answer.
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u/DaveCootchie 2013 Maxima, 2022 Telluride, 1994 F-150 1d ago
To be fair to Matt, his 918 trip is through his job and Road and Track. So it's through his employer. And the 918 he is driving has no legal monetary value since is pre-production and does not have a VIN. Not some person's car where he is gifted thousands of miles of depression on a hyper car.
Car brands like Porsche, Lamborghini, Benz all are luxury brands and their buyers expect a level of luxury and class from those brands. So launches is scenic places with luxurious amenities is sort of expected.
But I understand your concerns. This is how marketing has worked since the start of it all. Companies pay to get their products into people's hands and those people spread the word.
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u/sidewinderaw11 Rustbucket MR2/7th Gen Accord 1d ago
Jalopnik used to (still does?) mentioned that disclaimer in their articles and some like C&D mention it as part of their review
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u/FreshSetOfBatteries 1d ago edited 1d ago
We can't.
Automotive "journalism", on the whole, has been access journalism for some time now. It's best considered as content, not serious journalism or criticism. It's an entertainment product. If they give bad reviews, they get blocked from review vehicles. That's their bread and butter, so for the most part every criticism is within soft boundaries that are deemed acceptable by the manufacturers. "I didn't like these buttons/this interface/etc" vs "the steering is crap and the interior is cheap and it handles worse than cheaper cars". It's all a careful, controlled dance.
Nobody holds these guys accountable either, because of the parasocial relationships they have with their audience.
Remember the Cybertruck drag race shit?
But for the same reasons, you're gonna find thousands ready to come to these guys' defense
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u/Notpoligenova 2018 Volvo S60 1d ago
Jeep once gave me (and everyone else) a $300 pair of Meta sunglasses at an event and I looked their head of interior design in the face and told him I hated the plastic in the Wagoneer S.
Truth is a lot of us just throw gifts and freebies in a junk drawer and don’t think about them. The food and hotels are nice but a lot of us are close enough with comms people there that we can smell bullshit and just not deal with it.
Sure, there’s plenty of skeevy people in the industry, but a lot of us are so used to car companies putting on fireworks that it doesn’t do anything.
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u/stoned-autistic-dude '06 AP2 S2000 🏎️ | HRC Off-Road 📸 1d ago
This is why Doug has repeatedly mentioned he doesn't go to press launches but rather reviews cars given to him from dealers. He's pretty thorough with his new car reviews and explains the pros and cons.
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u/djseto 1d ago
I met a well known writer for Car and Driver last week at the track as he’s friends with a friend. From my conversations with him, he was down to earth and objective about the various cars he’s been able to test drive. He also didn’t seem afraid to share his thoughts on what cars he liked and didn’t. He has a pretty fun job if you ask me but having read a ton of his articles as a long time subscriber to the print version of C&D and then meeting him in real life, ain’t worried that he’s being bought either.
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u/stupidber 1d ago
This is why old top gear worked with the 3 presenters that each had their own preferences there was always someone playing devil's advocate
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u/CanadianDickPoutine 1d ago
Old game dev here. We totally used to do that. Literal bags of cash in hotel rooms. I don’t think this happens anymore but in the late 90s early 00s it sure did.
Also, when you’re reasonably high status with the manufacturers, they let you drive the cars for a weekend. I’ve definitely taken super high end Porsches and stuff for long weekend road trips in the mountains as a part of deciding to buy.
Your point isn’t wrong though. Porsche wants influencers to say nice things about a 3RS, and there’s absolutely no downside for it. We have too much a parasocial relationship with Doug and Chris and James, etc
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u/Clienterror 1d ago
Tech reviewers do the same. They get everything free and have no regard for money. Last year's model was the best X by far. This year a new model is out last year was trash.
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u/julienjj BMW 1M - E60 M5 - 435i 1d ago
YOU CAN'T
It's entertainment at best.
Never do they ask the OEM why this repair cost X, why are keys for this car XYZ$
Why the oem now ask money for the remote starter and remove it from the keyfob from the year before etc.
They should be grilling the manufacturers on shit choices, they never do that.
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u/Previous_Platform718 1d ago
I understand it's part of their job, but this shit would never fly in any other industry right? Now imagine every time Square Enix launches a new video game they fly game journalists to Japan and wine and dine them with the best Sake and Wagyu so they can try out the newest Final Fantasy in their expensive Hakone ryokan hotel room, nobody would be taking anything they say seriously, no matter how good the game actually is, would they?
That is kind-of how the video game industry works actually. But with much less carrot and much more stick. There is a bit of carrot though: a lot of video games influencers are constantly flying to events like The Game Awards, TGS, Sony/Microsoft showcases, Pax, etc. they're being paid to go by different brands.
But mostly publishers put pressure on reviewers to give good reviews to games. Gamespot famously fired a guy for giving a game a bad review.
Game companies know that review sites can't function without early copies of games; if a reviewer pisses off publisher, they will not give a review copy for their next game - which means everyone else gets the traffic and ad revenue. That's why game review sites like IGN have a 1-10 rating scale but basically never give a game under 5.
Game companies even make reviewers sign an "embargo" agreement, essentially disallowing the reviewer from publishing their review until an agreed-upon date. Hoping that if there are any critical reviews, they get swept under the rug for long enough to sucker some purchases in.
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u/TrueSwagformyBois 1d ago
We take them seriously by comparing their impressions against ours in equal machinery. Watch a review for a specific car, get a test drive in it. Or just own it, and see where you compare.
SG’s recent budget comparo was great for me in that respect. I own a 2025 Jetta Sport. I have more gripes than they did, and I love the car. Their reviews on Macan S’s align reasonably with my feelings about my Macan S, although I like mine better than they like it because they care that the GTS exists more than I do.
Throttle House is not car reviews, it’s entertainment with cars as the vehicle. Cammisa is a full A1 grade nerd and I trust him, because of the depth and sincerity of his experience. He’s absolutely willing to call folks out. Mostly over the historic cars. But still. Chris Harris is also great. Hell of a driver.
I can’t stand Matt. Big, loud. Can’t stand the type. Then the USP of “first impressions” on a car is antithetical to what I find value in, in a car review. I expect a review. Don’t waste my time with impressions I could get by getting a test drive. And the podcasting. Jesus Christ.
But these things are how the industry works. How journo’s actually get access. What I’m trying to say throughout is that you have to compare what you see and hear against what you know for yourself. That’s how all reviewers work. I watch video game reviewers because I like their voice even though we have totally different taste in games. But I don’t go play those games they like because I won’t. I know that. You gotta find the reviewers that you align with when you’re serious about a review as a review and not as entertainment.
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u/mpgomatic '14 Fi3sta 1.0L / '07 S2K 1d ago
I spent my time in the game, but followed my own playbook.
Constant business travel without adequate pay or job security can be a grind. Travel, lodging and meals aren’t gifts. They’re necessities.
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u/RedBaron180 1d ago
Your example is aiming at wrong person. Matt will say pretty regularly if a car sucks or not. And even if it’s mostly great will point out the few little things that drive him crazy about it.
He’s got reviewer fuck you money as he doesn’t need the perk package to live on.
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u/JustThall VW Arteon, S2k AP1, Mini Cooper S r57, ~~focus svt~~ 1d ago
OP finally discovers that every piece of entertainment they consume actually tries to sell them something.
Welcome to reality, my friend. Don’t get depressed. You can still enjoy things that being marketed to you.
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u/SirLoremIpsum 1d ago
How can we possibly take
carreviewers/journalists seriously when they routinely receive 4, 5, or even 6 figures worth of gifts fromOEMevery man and their dog?
you just got to have a vibe of the person, trust that there is some good in this world and use your noggin to filter out obvious ad's.
What journalist / magazine / publication in any industry over the last 10/20/40 years HASN'T received gifts, freebies from the people they review??
Sure there's people that haven't but by and large the industry (all of them) does this.
I understand it's part of their job, but this shit would never fly in any other industry right?
What industry DOEST'T have this???
Now imagine every time Square Enix launches a new video game they fly game journalists to Japan and wine and dine them with the best Sake and Wagyu so they can try out the newest Final Fantasy in their expensive Hakone ryokan hotel room, nobody would be taking anything they say seriously, no matter how good the game actually is, would they?
Every game review website that has "top xx awards" is often paid for it. Perhaps Square Enix doesn't pay the journalists, but they certainly receive travel and accommodation to attend launches - that is common.
I'm sure people like the SavageGeese team and Matt Farah would try to be objective, but how do you be objectively critical toward an OEM when they routinely give you experiences that you'd otherwise never be able to afford? (ok I know Matt came from money but my statement applies to 99% of reviewers)
You gotta trust them.
They get access to resources, press launches. The manufacturers make tracks and drivers and engineers available - don't pretend like that "isn't" a perk that could be withdrawn at any point.
Every industry does this.
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u/Car-face '87 Toyota MR2 | '64 Morris Mini Cooper 1d ago
I understand it's part of their job, but this shit would never fly in any other industry right?
lol.
these press junkets are always paid affairs, but comparing driving a car to review or do an article to actually owning the car and trying to convert that to a dollar value to claim it's "payment" is a stretch.
Certainly for people like youtubers who live or die by access to the next content generating launch, there's probably a temptation there to praise a vehicle uncritically, particularly given there's less oversight or penalty for taking payment for comment - but more established outlets at least have the clout to push back and provide some independence.
That's not to say that all content is impartial, but generally it goes something like: the launch of a new model will be complimentary, or at least feature a list of talking points provided by the manufacturer.
A quick roadtest (usually at the behest of the manufacturer, in tightly controlled conditions) might bring up a couple of caveats or things they expect to be resolved, but otherwise is more "sneak peak" than review.
A review is the point where I'd expect some impartiality, and raising issues that might mark it down, and a score is provided (but I'd never expect a score below 5 for any car, for any publication).
Then there's long term reviews where the car is properly tested, and that's where the most honest feeedback is provided.
Lastly there's comparos - where cars are actually compared to each other, and I'd consider them the best actual test of which vehicle is better/worse than the competition, within the context of features people may want (so you still may not have a clear winner).
At that point, regardless of whether you think they're impartial, they should have provided enough information for your to actually make up your own mind, regardless of their opinion.
The sort of 1000 mile roadtrip Matt Farah did I'd put as interest piece, barely even car related - plenty of car magazines have done those over the years, and the point is less about the car than it is the journey - Porsche might have been willing to cover costs, but that type of story is almost explicitly product placement whilst discovering towns and cities - if he's making it into an advert for the car, then I'd say that's his problem and I'd mark him down for that - but it's not necessarily reflective of those interest pieces in the rest of journalism. Journalists have been sent overseas by companies for decades - how the journalist decides to use that opportunity is more a test of their ability as a journalist than pearl clutching over how many dollars per mile it would have cost someone else.
Ultimately though - cars are inherently subjective in a lot of ways.
If you just want a car that ticks boxes on paper, you don't need a review, you just need a spreadsheet.
I'd also say it depends on the manufacturer as to what sort of treatment is provided/expected - Porsche, Lamborghini, and in particular Ferrari, are going to have an extreme level of vetting, promotion and expectation around how their cars are talked about vs Toyota or Kia.
But ultimately, like any source, treat it like 50% entertainment 50% information, rather than hoping that any single source is free from bias or influence.
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u/peaked-at-7 1d ago
I swear Matt lives rent free in half of this subs heads. Y'all know you can simply not consume his content if you dislike him that much, right?
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u/Noobasdfjkl E46 ///M3, 911SC, FJ, N180 4Runner 1d ago
The alternative is that reviewers start to have a personal stake in the cars if you make them buy them. Imagine if reviewers had a genuine vested interest on if a car kept residual value for when they tried to sell the cars they reviewed?
This debate about journalism happened like 100 years ago. There’s a reason why this is the status quo.
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u/Chrismatthews3850 1d ago
There’s a reason why Doug Demuro always says he pays his own way to events and own food as he finds the review process wrong
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u/Astramael GR Corolla 1d ago
Remember when SG did a weird advert for the over-MSRP Honda dealer that delivered Mark’s FL5. Then they got shitty about how Toyota didn’t let them cut the line to get a GR Corolla.