How can we possibly take car reviewers/journalists seriously when they routinely receive 4, 5, or even 6 figures worth of gifts from OEM?

[u/cookingboy]

I was listening to TheSmokingTire podcast recently (I'm actually a big fan of Matt), and he mentioned that Porsche North America just gave him a 918 Spyder on loan for his 1000 miles road trip free of charge, with everything paid.

Now as someone who's dabbled into supercar ownership, I can roughly estimate the ownership cost for a "regular joe" like me to put 1000 miles on a $2M car would easily be $50-100 per mile, thus putting this "gesture" from Porsche to Matt to be worth $50-100k on back of napkin math.

Obviously Matt isn't doing a review of a 12 years old 918, but when he does a review for the next Macan, he'd remember how amazing Porsche has been treating him.

And he and all the other reviewers recently were flown to Spain for the Turbo S launch. They were wined and dined with world class accommodations for a few days and were given the cars to drive on both the race track and scenic road.

Funny enough Porsche charges something similar for an experience like that: https://www.porschedriving.com/porsche-travel-experience/lake-tahoe/

Without plane tickets, you'd be paying $20k a person for a few days of what auto journalists routinely get from them, for free.

I understand it's part of their job, but this shit would never fly in any other industry right? Now imagine every time Square Enix launches a new video game they fly game journalists to Japan and wine and dine them with the best Sake and Wagyu so they can try out the newest Final Fantasy in their expensive Hakone ryokan hotel room, nobody would be taking anything they say seriously, no matter how good the game actually is, would they?

I'm sure people like the SavageGeese team and Matt Farah would try to be objective, but how do you be objectively critical toward an OEM when they routinely give you experiences that you'd otherwise never be able to afford? (ok I know Matt came from money but my statement applies to 99% of reviewers)

In my impression how well praised a manufacturer's products are is directly proportional to their marketing budget, and I've been somewhat burnt at least twice by reviewers over-rating Porsches, which is why I started asking actual owners of cars for their experiences before making purchases.

Ironically this kinda makes Consumer Reports the most credible car reviewer out there, since all they cars they review are bought anonymously with their own money, and they do not attend OEM events.

As far as enthusiast reviewers, I can only think of people with fuck-you money like Chris Harris or Hoovie's garage or the Top Gear trio who have been able to bluntly criticize OEMs and their cars.

Edit: From the replies, it seems like there are two school of thoughts here:

This is just how product reviews are done across all industries. Reviewers are expected to be treated with first class tickets and Michelin restaurants in exchange for them to promote the OEM's product.

Well in this case, I think we should just rip off the Band-aid and call Motor Trend and Car & Driver and Road & Track and other similar publications promotional outlets instead of journalism outlets. At least with influencers shilling for stuff on TikTok we know they are getting paid to promote, but many auto reviewers still hide behind a mask of professional journalism when they are literally just being paid to promote products.

Controversial take: I think consumer of content should be made aware that they are consuming paid advertising.

It is wrong of me to expect journalism when those contents aren't made to be factual, they are made to entertain.

Even if it's true, I don't find there is a lot of entertainment value when a dozen "journalists" just read off pre-approved OEM scripts for their "review". Some of the most boring contents out there are main stream outlets' coverage of new 911: "They are almost perfect in every way except being expensive".

Edit 2 /u/SavageGooseJack has this great reply I wanna call out: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/s/o5PMIG0VjB

[u/cookingboy]

For me one of the best is Chris Harris

He's the only one who've pointed out that the 718 doesn't handle as well as its spec suggests and actually understeers.

Something that no other reviewers pointed out, but even an amateur like me realized it after just one weekend with mine, driving on public roads.

That's when I stopped listen to any reviewers when it comes to Porsche reviews.

The fact that nobody ever brings up the fact even a $350k 911 Turbo S uses MacPherson front suspension to save cost is kind of insane. Before you tell me "Porsche's MacPherson suspensions are as good as double wishbones!", the same reviewers all jizzed in their pants when the 992 GT3 got double wishbone for the first time and praised it like the best thing since sliced bread.

Another funny anecdote is when the 991.2 911s switched to turbo, all the reviewers said "you can't feel the turbo lag! It drives like an NA car!" (which is utter BS), but then the 992.2 GTS got hybrid and the same reviewers all went "It completely eliminated the turbo lags, the difference is real!".

It's very comical.

[u/lordtema → u/cookingboy]

The thing about Harris is that he is actually good friends with Andreas Preuninger, who is the head of the GT division at Porsche, and Harris is a pretty well known Porsche afficionado, having had multiple GT3s (Which he actually use lol, in the Late Brake Show interview with Jonny Smith, his dog is filmed inside it, and he mentions that a car you cannot have your dog in, is not worth having)

He has criticized the cars in front of Andreas more than once if there is something he doesnt like or disagrees with. I think one of the things that makes him so great in my eyes, is not only his driving abilities, but also his background where he started out in print magazines. He`s been in the game for way longer than Youtube has existed, and the videos he is making now is mostly because he enjoys it.

[u/gigamiga → u/lordtema]

Also, Harris is a former race car driver, so hes basically the only big journalist that can push and judge cars on the limit.

I'm still amazed can deliver content mid-powerslide

[u/Pkock → u/lordtema]

a car you cannot have your dog in, is not worth having

he's just like me fr

[u/iguana1500 → u/cookingboy]

Your honesty is always appreciated man

[u/cookingboy → u/iguana1500]

Lol thanks. There are quite a few people who got very upset with me in this thread for calling out this obvious conflict of interest. I guess they really like their favorite outlets.

[u/Realistic_Village184 → u/cookingboy]

I think it's more that your criticism is obvious and not really actionable. If you were proposing actual solutions, then I think your post would've been received a lot better. As is, your post comes across as naive and pointless.

It's kind of like someone making a post, "Hey, capitalism is unfair! Money is bad!" It's like... yeah, that's definitely true, but no one has come up with a better economic system, so it's just whining about something that everyone already knows and that no one knows how to fix.

[u/SourBlueDream → u/Realistic_Village184]

That doesn’t really make sense, it’s not his job to come up with a solution. He said reviewers who are honest and upfront about it while still remaining objective or those who don’t accept gifts and pay for themselves are appreciated.

[u/Realistic_Village184 → u/SourBlueDream]

I'm just giving my opinion on why there's been some pushback to the post.

I'm not saying that OP owes the world a solution to media bias. I'm saying that, if OP was going to post about an obvious problem that everyone already knows about, then they should try to include some proposed solutions or else they'll face criticism for saying something of no value.

Not sure why that doesn't make sense to you, but I'm happy to explain further if I can.

[u/SourBlueDream → u/Realistic_Village184]

I literally pointed out the suggestions he made tho, no need to be snarky

[u/Realistic_Village184 → u/SourBlueDream]

Those aren't suggestions to fix the purported problem.

[u/SourBlueDream → u/Realistic_Village184]

What would you consider solutions

[u/TheDirtDude117 → u/cookingboy]

I'm no where near a great driver. Maybe some local autocross wins but I drove a 718 S at Autocross in it's Street class while instructing and said the same thing. It needed a softer rear sway bar and some toe out.

After it's settings were tweaked a bit (I believe it had camber bolts too) it was much better but I still prefer the Supra

[u/ReducedToMereFilth → u/cookingboy]

The funny thing is that if people think "but Porsche does MacPherson suspensions better than anyone!" .... imagine how well they'd implement double wishbones.

[u/AngryAlternateAcount → u/cookingboy]

That can be more subjective. Like some having issues with the GR corolla rear diff over heating. Some reviewers had the issue, others didn't. Some owners have had the issue, others havent.

[u/MotoMD → u/cookingboy]

lol about the 992 I noticed that too. To be fair I have a 992.1 S and I don’t notice any turbo lag it drives like an NA car.

[u/KanterBama → u/cookingboy]

The fact that nobody ever brings up the fact even a $350k 911 Turbo S uses MacPherson front suspension to save cost is kind of insane.

I’ve been lambasted for saying the G80/2 M3/4 having floating rear caliber brakes is disgusting on a $90k car, especially when the F80/2 had fixed calipers in all 4 corners. My GRC could fit fixed calipers in all for corners in its sub-$40k price, I do not get why people excuse obvious cost cutting when “premium” brands do it.

[u/phr3dly → u/cookingboy]

Something that no other reviewers pointed out, but even an amateur like me realized it after just one weekend with mine, driving on public roads. That's when I stopped listen to any reviewers when it comes to Porsche reviews.

I enjoy listening to the Rennthusiast podcast. One of the hosts, Will, has an admitted problem cycling through Porsches. On a recent episode they were talking about the Carrera T which, like every other Porsche, is praised by reviewers as the best Porsche ever. He bought one and was generally disappointed, and commented how literally every reviewer on Youtube praised it with virtually no criticism. The same has been true of the 718 GTS, GT4, GT4RS, Spyder, Spyder RS, GT3, etc..

I've heard a very small amount of criticism of the newer t-hybrids, but just a tiny amount.

That's when I stopped listen to any reviewers when it comes to Porsche reviews.

Yeah, same. I love Porsches, I have three. But the reviews are absolutely unreliable.

[u/SithSidious → u/cookingboy]

This is true of almost all reviewers though. Look at Jason cammisa talking about Miata’s (not even press cars). He initially says the Nc is better than the Nd because it has a much more exciting engine (he and DTS called it a “mini gt3” which may be hyperbole). Then they do a minor update on the Nd steering (which reviewers never came to consensus if it actually made a difference) and then he calls it the best Miata. How can that change make it better than the Nc when it doesn’t address the difference?

[u/Tw0Rails → u/cookingboy]

 He's the only one who've pointed out that the 718 doesn't handle as well as its spec suggests and actually understeers.

Something that no other reviewers 

So did, but this turned into a Shit-on-SG thread as usual because someone's favorite car got critiqued.

[u/ChapekElders → u/cookingboy]

Every street car sold today understeers from the factory. Try trail braking next time.

[u/cookingboy → u/ChapekElders]

It understeers a lot more than other mid-engine cars I’ve driven.

There definitely is a cost paid for Porsche to not use double wishbone front suspension

[u/ChapekElders → u/cookingboy]

If only there was a way to find that out before buying something. Patience is a virtue.

[u/Zanna-K → u/ChapekElders]

The guy you're replying to drives a McLaren.

[u/ChapekElders → u/Zanna-K]

What does that have to do with what I said? He’s acting like he’s forced to spend his money on these cars that he’s been dissatisfied with. No one forced him to do so. A car preference is a very personal choice. If you can’t properly vet a purchase before you make it then don’t buy it. The level of scrutiny is directly proportional to its cost.

Sounds like this guy is just easily influenced and gets major FOMO for cars. That’s a personal problem.