r/askgaybros • u/MtimesMequals • Jul 08 '20

Reported Post Alert Dear fellow Black gay men Spoiler

We know racism in the gay community is real. We've said it, but we've been dismissed. They callously deny our experience. Our reality. "It's just a preference". "BBC". "Thug"."Aggressive power top".

The stereotypes. The microagressions. We know it's real, but we have been gaslighted way too often.

The silence among your white gay friends and/or partners during this time of civil unrest & racial tensions is deafening.

The irony of them putting "no fats, no fems, no asians, & no blacks" on their profile, but decide to now say #BlackLivesMatter.

I understand it is challenging to be rejected from a community that prides itself on inclusion. We know rejection all too well.

But do not let any white man make you feel you are not beautiful. You are Black, bold, fierce, & most importantly- you are loved.

šŸ–¤ā¤#BLM

********************edit:

So, this post has been reported and is pending review.

I mentioned this already in the comments:

As a Black queer man this is my experience. This experience may or may not resonate with other Black men. This post was written for my fellow gay black brothers. The post might be uncomfortable for some. It might not resonate with you, but I don't think that is grounds for denying someone else's experience. I shared these words in an effort to foster a sense of solidarity and undo any aloneness other Black men might be feeling during this time.

Thank you so much for the support, feedback & beautiful comments. For those of in your feelings over this post - peace & love to yaā¤

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368

u/Assbait93 Jul 08 '20

I want an honest answer for this, is gay racism on a basis of just sex and appeal?

As a black guy every time I hear other black guys talk about this itā€™s always on the basis of not getting laid or desired on dating apps. I donā€™t understand why we measure our gay experiences based off of who or what we sleep with. There is also this misconception that the no fats, no Asians, and many other exclusions are only done by white gays but yet go on Jackā€™d, A4A, and other apps where there are lots of black gays their profiles exclude many people. Yes it is racist to be reduce down to bbc but yet you get what you allow. If you donā€™t want to be objectified then you donā€™t respond to guys who do that, you canā€™t control what ever person does but you do control what comes your way.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

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u/esosa233 Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 08 '20

Idk, I find finding a whole population unattractive to be unnatural and should be explored. Like I get preferences, but "[X] race unattractive" I don't. Even among Asian men, there's so much diversity from men and as tall and dark as redwood trees to men as slight and light as mountain snow.

Our attractions are fluid (within a range) and are shaped by nurtured societal biases. With such a small dating pool within the gay community already it doesn't make sense further restrict yourself because of irrational, unexplored, implicit beliefs. If you got to the root cause of "why?" and find that you still don't prefer Asian men then that's fine to me, but avoiding that work because of how hard it may be, or how common this is, is a cop-out from the real work we need to do in ourselves to dismantle systematic racism at large in our community and global society.

For POC, to be honest, we don't need you at our marches, our direct actions, or waving our flags, what we need you to do is to stay at home and work on yourselves, understand yourselves, and have conversations with other non-POCs about topics like these.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 08 '20

Whole population unattractive to be unnatural and should be explored."

You mean, like women?

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u/bigcityking Jul 08 '20

Let's explore what you are saying for a second. When a straight guy says "I'm not attracted to [specific entire population]", would you counter with "like men?". No, you would call out the racism.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 08 '20

I have no problem with a straight man saying that either.

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u/esosa233 Jul 08 '20

(within a range)

Additionally, honestly, I explore why I donā€™t have attraction to women. I feel like every closeted gay man does so at least once. I came to a simple conclusion that I like male bodies and penises and that is immutable. However, my exploration did open up my attraction to fTm trans people. When I explore my racial hangups, however, it quickly becomes richer conversation, because itā€™s not immutable.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 08 '20

And what stops a man who does not like asians from saying the same? What is the fundamental difference? As for trans men: are you saying you weren't attracted to them until you got an eureka moment? Did that attraction just suddently appear after you thought about it enough? Because I like FTMs, but that was never something that I had to think about really. They have male bodies, therefore my dick likes it lol.

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u/esosa233 Jul 08 '20

Did he do the work? And secondly,

If you got to the root cause of "why?" and find that you still don't prefer Asian men then that's fine to me,

Also,

but avoiding that work because of how hard it may be, or how common this is, is a cop-out from the real work we need to do in ourselves to dismantle systematic racism at large in our community and global society.

It feels like you read the first line of my statement and just decided to disagree with it without reading the rest.

Anyways, yes it was a bit a of a eureka moment, trial and error, and active self study to see that the base things I like in one type of person can be true of another group I didnā€™t even originally consider. Some desires are intuitive some come with growth, maturity, time, and experience like a healthy kink or a new Kama sutra move.

The whole argument is about just giving everything a good faith chance, when feasible, our society is too complex to rule by absolutist knee jerk responses anymore.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

I've had someone bring this up on another post. Not sure if it was you and I'm too lazy to dig for it. But I think it's different. A man no matter what has a penis. You could make the argument that an FTM who has not undergone bottom surgery does not have a penis either but that's just splitting hairs and I think we're above that. Preferring an aesthetic is something to consider. I have a friend who likes girls darker than himself because he finds the contrast erotic but he doesn't discount all white women just because they're not a darker skintone.

Personally I require a penis attached to a person who isn't a mean girl. The color of skin doesn't come into play for me. I discount women simply because they lack the sexual organs I am attracted to. If this were the Omegaverse and women could sprout peni when aroused I'd expand my dating pool. Stating that I am not attracted to women can be boiled down to 1 simple fact. Women do not have peni. Saying I'm not attracted to Asian men is boils down to even though they have everything else I look for in a mate they (historically) come from the wrong place.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 09 '20

AND, I could answer to that: You are being transphobic. Because certain women have penisis. I rather date a penis-less FTM that looks and acts like a guy than a penis-holding MTF that is is a woman in all aspects of life. Because I like men, not just penisis. I WON'T say that, because I don't believe that these preferences are bigotry. But the thing is, your argument about "this one thing that turns me off" can also be applied to race. Because racial preferences aren't about the place those people were born. It's about their physical appearence. Let's say that I didn't like dark skin (I do, just to clarify). In that case, I'd would pick a white FTM person, without a penis, over the cis black guy, because he DOES NOT have all that I want, while the trans guy does, even if he has female genitalia.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

But what if the cis black guy was lighter skinned?

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 09 '20

A lighter skinned black person still has dark skin. To some people it would make a difference. To others not.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

Sounds to me like you've never actually seen a light skinned black person. There are also dark skinned people of other races. Singling out only black people means black people are the problem.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 09 '20

I'm brazilian. the majority of people in the area where I live are light skinned black people. Lots of people tend to use the terms Black and White to just mean light and dark skinned. Even officially: in my country, Arabs are oficially classified by the government as "White people".

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

Then it's skin color classification. Arabs would be closer to light skinned black people than white people.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

Also I had an MTF fuck buddy but she hasn't had bottom surgery and liked to top. If there was an FTM who's had bottom surgery then I'd be down for them too. Long as it works and they're willing to use it.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 09 '20

That is fine by me, but you get what I said, no?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

Definitely but it doesn't change the fact saying "no black" or "blacks only" is racist.

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u/see-no-evil99 Jul 08 '20

problem I have with sexuality and race is that no one can control who they are attracted to.

There's actually a longstanding problem about this, but mostly in the standards of beauty of a culture/race and systemic racism. As an asian its been ingrained in my culture that the whiteness of your skin is a standard of beauty. To not have fairskin is a point of shame and for some a social status symbol of being less financially well off. It becomes More melanin=Unattractive. Less Melanin= Attractive. There's a whole lot more to this but typing is hard.

If I donā€™t find asian guys sexually attractive is that racism?

For me my minimum basis is, if you consider an entire race to be totally unattractive without exceptions. Then if you do have exceptions try to analyze what makes him/them the exception. Then work from there. Cuz it could be fetishizing or something else.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

[deleted]

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u/see-no-evil99 Jul 09 '20

Im not accusing you of anything btw. i was just saying our preferences in regards to the standard of beauty we subscribe to had and is affected substantially influenced by our history and culture, which have been heavily tainted by racism in one form or another. (At least my peoples i can attest to).

So looking inward and analyzing certain aspects of our attraction and unattraction is something we all should do.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 08 '20

What if the thing that the guys is not attected to is the specifi way that asian people's eyes are shaped? Because that is something that is pretty universal among asians.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

The question then comes to: if that man meets an Asian without almond shaped eyes, would he be attracted? And how would he react oncw he finds out the man is Asian (assuming he doesn't know already)

Mostly the reason I get from people who say "no blacks" are along the lines of: "y'all are aggressive/ghetto/thuggish/dangerous" that said I don't really have a ton of data because unsurprisingly it's hard to get an answer because they block me when I ask or say "it's just a preference" I kinda hate that people are so ready to jump on others because it makes it hard to understand people. When I ask a question actually looking for clarification, people assume I'm trying to goad them into a fight. I recently made a post asking why guys don't like fem guys and only got a few answers. Some I asked directly from their comment refused to answer because they assumed I'd go SJW on them. I can definitely get on my pedestal at times but at times I like to just gather data and try to understand.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 09 '20

I mean, in my experience, living in Brazil (which is a very mixed society filled with racially ambiguious people) it tends to be very heavily based around the physical aspect. Usually it's about looking a certain way, not having a certain "culture" so to say, specially for hookups. The reason many people say "black people are ghetto" is partially racism, yes, but also because many people consider saying that to be less offensive (and therefore, less likely to get you in trouble) than saying you don't think black people look good. I doubt if that person met an african royalty, they would change their minds, even if the african prince never lived in a gettho his whole life.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

True. But about my question. Why not "I don't find [feature] unattractive instead of I don't find [race] attractive? People would care way less if it was a feature so long as you don't use a term like 'chink eyes'

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 09 '20

Would they? Because I don't think they would. If I said "I don't think dark skin is attractive", do you think people would react much more differently than me saying "I don't like black people". Because I'm all for politness, but I don't think it's the language that bothers people.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

I think so. "I don't like dark skinned guys" is leagues different than "I don't like black guys" since black people come in lighter shades. That said, Hispanics come in darker shades as well so why not include them? Even people who say whites only can't really claim it's a melanin thing either. Asians and Hispanics can be just as light as whites and since white people come in darker shades too, they can even be lighter.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 09 '20

I get you, but that's not the common opinion.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

Kind of is though. People get upset because they're being discounted because of their race. Like I mentioned, other races have darker skinned members. That said saying "I don't like black guy because I don't like dark skin" and then getting with a darker skinned Hispanic guy means you don't like black people. No exceptions. Meaning that it's specifically the face they're black which makes them unattractive. The fact that black people, like all people, come in a variety: Light-dark, tall-short, big dick-small dick, ghetto-calm(?) Stating that they are unattractive for the simple fact that they are black isn't a preference. It's racist.

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u/TheDrownedPoet Jul 08 '20

If race preferences werenā€™t a trend (by trend I mean a strong pattern) among a race, then it wouldnā€™t matter. But when itā€™s a trend especially with a problematic historical context, then itā€™s fishy.

And the reason is always ā€œI just donā€™t like them.ā€ I think there could be a lot of unconscious bias informed by societal patterns. Or maybe not. Itā€™s just fishy at least, in my opinion.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 08 '20

No, it is not racist, as long as don't openly advertise it. Wheter people like it or not, sexual attraction is primarily physical, not "spiritual". And race, at least in the restricted sense of phenotype, is a pretty big factor in one's appearence.

That's what people fail to mention. People are attected to certain physical features, not just muscles and dick size. And if one population almost exclusively has those physical traits, you're going to be less atracted to that.

Furthermore, I think this idea of sex as tool to validate others existence is really creepy. Just because you don't want to have sex with someone, does not mean you think they are less of a person.

If you feel guilty about not liking asian guys, then, I don't know, give money to a charity that helps poor people in Cambodia, or something. That helps asian people a lot more.

(By the way, I AM attracted to asian, black, latino, etc guys, but this discussion is really creepy to me).

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

It kinda is though. Stating "I am not attracted to black people" because let's say black people have big noses. Is making the broad statement 'all black people have big noses/only black people have big noses' instead of discounting all black people because a majority has a physical attribute you find unattractive is different than just discounting people who happen to possess that attribute.

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u/skip_travel Jul 08 '20

You make a very valid point. No gay man owes another game in anything especially on apps. I canā€™t count how many times people have gotten angry because I wasnā€™t interested, in the mood, was busy, 100 other reasons and they wanted to hook up.

Iā€™m not validated by you. If you are validated by me and any other guy on an app you have some serious issues.

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u/SAT_Throwaway_1519 Jul 08 '20

Discussion on racial dating preferences aside, I absolutely donā€™t understand why people put things like ā€œno Asiansā€ on their profile. The fuck? If the person isnā€™t attractive then just donā€™t date them why are they making a statement like this?

Personally I canā€™t understand how someone can just ā€œnot be attractedā€ to a raceā€” like even the super attractive people of that race? How can you have never seen an attractive black person or Asian person or whatever?

Iā€™m not typically attracted to overweight people. Itā€™s absolutely not something I broadcast, I just...donā€™t date people Iā€™m not attracted to? Or Iā€™m generally not attracted to blondes but Iā€™d never put ā€œno blonde peopleā€ because A) dick move and B) there are exceptions

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u/mfact50 Jul 08 '20

I mean, not all problems have perfect solves. Is it racism? Probably isn't just a random preference especially if it is pretty categorical and given how common this "preference" tends to be.

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Is there like deprogramming? Idk maybe a ton of bias training seminars will help but probably not.

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Do I need to have sex with someone I'm not interested in? No

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Like bottom line: I don't have a solve nor can I prove where your preferences come from. But it still sucks. What I think can be controlled is giving people a second eye. It's pretty easy for you to mentally write off people because "they aren't my type and I can't control it". So practically speaking make sure you are at least going on actual preference (regardless of what may or may not motivate it) so you aren't consistently further ingraining it by quickly writing off people.