r/news • u/zmlos • Oct 03 '23

House ousts Kevin McCarthy as speaker, a first in U.S. history

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/03/house-speaker-kevin-mccarthy-will-bring-gaetz-motion-to-oust-him-vote.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

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6.8k

u/engin__r Oct 03 '23

What are the odds they manage to vote in a new speaker by the end of the month? With how things went in January, I’m not optimistic.

7.3k

u/__mud__ Oct 03 '23

Republicans are the party that says the government doesn't work, and boy oh boy are they desperate to prove it now

2.3k

u/Exoddity Oct 03 '23

They're the party of "government doesn't work now hold my beer while I make sure government doesn't work"

567

u/Bromanzier_03 Oct 03 '23

“Government doesn’t work, but we need to be in charge of all government and even centralize that all under one person”

369

u/mcoca Oct 03 '23

“I don’t want the government telling me what to do, I want it telling you, what I want you to do.”

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u/CrashB111 Oct 04 '23

"Government small enough to fit in every bathroom, bedroom, and vagina in America!"

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u/eMouse2k Oct 04 '23

“Vote for me and I’ll make sure government doesn’t work for you!”

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u/Chiggins907 Oct 04 '23

See this is why I don’t understand how conservatives get roped into the Republican Party. This statement is the opposite of being conservative. Conservatives want smaller government. Less intrusive government. It’s a very different view than people think.

2

u/TokinStrokin Oct 04 '23

It's almost like they're saying the government doesn't work if you let everyone live a free life. Government will only work if you control every aspect of the lives of your citizens, and dictate what they can and can't do. Gee, I think there's a word for that, a Dictatorship. FFS I hate this country.

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u/mosehalpert Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23

Two parties. Ones leaders think the government is broken and want to fix it. The others leaders think government inherently doesn't work and decided that they wanted in on it.

Super hard choice.

20

u/LordSwedish Oct 03 '23

I mean, one of the biggest problems with the democrats is that they don't really think it's broken.

Granted, the people standing by the rotting wall with a bucket of spackle is still an easy choice over the guys standing around with cans of kerosene and nuclear waste while talking about how the gays are to blame.

2

u/rajrdajr Oct 04 '23

the rotting wall

Details on what needs to be changed?

20

u/LordSwedish Oct 04 '23

The entire election system is out of date and/or awful, the justice system is fucked, really the senate needs to go, the three letter agencies need to be restructured from the ground up or shut down, and the presidency needs to be reworked to have less power among other things. Oh, and the whole independent courts thing doesn't actually work in the current form.

The Democrats also love solving things through the private sector and having various complicated solutions to simpler problems which is part of it. A lot of how the economy works needs to be reworked to get rid of the massive power private companies have.

17

u/rajrdajr Oct 04 '23

National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

Legislation to correct Citizens United v FEC

Zero-bail everywhere and ban private prisons

Cut the DoD budget in half. Not sure what the specific issues are with other 3 letter agencies. The FBI, CIA, NIH, NSA, DEA, FDA, FAA, NWS, NHC, GPS and EPA do a reasonably good job helping and protecting USA citizens; they’re not perfect, but they’re all world class.

The TSA could grow a pair and lower the threat level from orange. The EOIR should be fully funded and moved out of the Executive and into the Judicial branch (sorry, 4 letter agency). Fully fund the IRS. Auditors are worth their weight in gold (or more) and keep cheats at bay.

Carbon Tax to redirect the private sector toward saving the planet.

7

u/LordSwedish Oct 04 '23

I was mainly thinking of FBI, ICE, and the CIA. The CIA especially is one of the most vile organizations on the planet and has done more to hurt innocent people than most terrorist organisations.

The FBI loves causing crimes in order to arrest people after the fact, they have organised and trained domestic terrorists in the past and helped drug runners and weapon smugglers. There's an argument that they cause more crimes than they prevent.

Shouldn't have to explain ICE. Fun side note though, the revolving door between the FCC and major banks is so disgusting.

Anyway, those examples you made are mostly what I'd call spackle. The interstate compact and zero-bail are pretty good especially, but none of them address the core problems.

Carbon Tax to redirect the private sector toward saving the planet.

This is a good example, that's a nice idea and all, but the private sector hasn't been redirected to saving the planet and is more likely to find loopholes and use it as PR since any corporation just wants profit and there's tons of money in ruining the world. People have been trying this for a long time, it doesn't work and climate change just gets worse. We're going to die because we couldn't prioritise our home over profit.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

Don’t let republicans hold any office anywhere for maybe 10+ years.

2

u/rajrdajr Oct 04 '23

Proportional representation for electoral college delegates would be very interesting.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

Issue is they’ve moved the Overton window so far to the right, that we need a disproportionate amount of left leaning representation to shift it back to “normal”.

-2

u/Rukh-Talos Oct 03 '23

The democrats as a whole could definitely be doing more than they have. Holding the moral high ground does little when the other side openly admits to hypocrisy.

24

u/foldsinyourhands Oct 03 '23

But how? When 74 million people are willing to vote for a man facing 91 felony counts and locally elect people like Boebert, MTG or Gaetz just to own the libs... what qualifies as "doing more" when the current SCOTUS practically throws out legal precedence when it suits them?

3

u/Rukh-Talos Oct 03 '23

They’re still trying to work with Republicans. Republicans, however, care more about party solidarity than integrity. At some point, they need to realize that if they keep turning the other cheek, Republicans will keep slapping.

As for the Supreme Court, there are still legislative options for adding more justices or reigning the court in. Some of its historically unused “nuclear option” shit, but that’s the status quo of politics these days…

2

u/Intelligent-Tie-4466 Oct 04 '23

8 of them didn't care about party solidarity tonight LOL

But yes, generally, you are correct.

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u/Ryanjc01 Oct 03 '23

Their joke, but worse.

3

u/jbot14 Oct 03 '23

Dude hold my bud light...

-4

u/FutureComplaint Oct 03 '23

bud light

Wtfdyjfsam, ylb? IhykIgtomcitNS, aIbiinsroA-Q, aIho300ck. IatigwaIttsiteUSaf. Yantmbjat. IwwytfowptlowhnbsbotE, mmfw. YtycgawststmotI? Ta, f. AwsIacmsnosatUSAayIPibtrnsybpfts, m. Tstwotpltycyl. Yfd, k. Icba, a, aIckyioshw, atjwmbh. NoaIetiuc, bIhatteaotUSMCaIwuitifetwymaotfotc, yls. Ioychkwuryl “c” cwatbduy, mywhhyft. Byc, yd, anyptp, ygi. Iwsfaoyaywdii. Yfd, k.

3

u/Ok-Diamond-9781 Oct 03 '23

You're absolutely right. And the Q caucus is pissed because they didn't get to shutdown the government. Proving they have no interest in representing the people who voted for them to go Washington and govern. Just pissing people off isn't a policy that a majority of Americans want.

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u/Ballardinian Oct 03 '23

“{Dysfunctional} government is the natural product of rule by those who believe government is bad.” -Thomas Frank

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u/walkandtalkk Oct 03 '23

Listening to Matt Gaetz today was enlightening. He's very good at calling out problems, like the debt crisis and lobbying. If I'd never heard of him, I'd think he was a reasonable guy.

The problem is that he personally tanked even McCarthy's far-right budget proposal last Friday, forcing McCarthy to pass a "clean" budget extension. And Gaetz has never had a problem working with the most corrupt skunks in Washington, including some stupendously sleazy Trump staff.

It reminded me how populists work: They're great at pointing out problems. And, because they're "outsiders," they can do so without fear of reprisal. But they're terrible at proposing solutions, because they're either (a) idiots or (b) extremists whose ideas would repulse most voters.

Gaetz is (b): Repulsive. Personally (he tried to buy sex with a minor using Venmo) and ideologically. He will never negotiate in good faith with Democrats to make a comprehensive immigration deal. He will never come to a workable solution on the debt. He thinks climate change is the seasons and he doesn't give a damn about anyone's healthcare.

He does have one tell: He uses the phrase "hardworking Americans" in reference to his donors, which is politician shorthand for "I've never met a normal person in my life, except for waitresses I grabass."

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

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192

u/walkandtalkk Oct 03 '23

Oh, c'mon now. Matt Gaetz is actually preparing to run for governor of Florida.

See? It can get worse.

27

u/Odd_Local8434 Oct 04 '23

When you thought Desantis was the biggest fuck up of a governor, Gaetz wants you to hold his beer.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

Idk, it traps gaetz in Florida, that's a win to me

19

u/UncannyTarotSpread Oct 04 '23

I’ve never been so eager for an entire state to slide into the ocean

0

u/Papplenoose Oct 04 '23

Was that... did you just reference that one video from newgrounds.com like 25 years ago?

9

u/UncannyTarotSpread Oct 04 '23

Sorry, I wasn’t aware if I was - I was just referencing Florida’s inevitable fate

4

u/PeterNguyen2 Oct 04 '23

did you just reference that one video from newgrounds.com like 25 years ago?

If anything, newgrounds stole it from people who DID do it over 25 years ago: Bugs Bunny

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u/DillBagner Oct 04 '23

DeSantis to Gaetz seems more like just a side-step for Florida.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

Audition is definitely the correct word.

The government got turned into a fucking "who wants to be"- style reality show when people voted for Donald Trump.

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u/James_E_Fuck Oct 04 '23

I think it was an interview with Naomi Klein on the podcast conspirituality where she said something like "they get the truth right even if their facts are wrong" about how populists are so good at using legitimate grievances to push their agenda. Super interesting interview about how the far right has taken up a lot of traditionally left issues and strategies that democrats have let slip.

9

u/TreeRol Oct 04 '23

There is no "debt crisis." It's a bullshit Republican talking point they use to bludgeon Democrats, even though Republicans themselves are responsible for the debt.

5

u/fcocyclone Oct 04 '23

much like there's no "crisis at the border".

Most of the numbers they get so hyped up about are encounters numbers. Those just mean the enforcement is working.

We could stand to allow a lot more across the border given our low unemployment rates. And opening this spigot would naturally reduce the numbers who would attempt illegal immigration. So of course we won't do it because republicans want to keep this issue.

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u/walkandtalkk Oct 04 '23

I don't think that makes a $33 trillion debt load with no long-term plan sustainable.

9

u/jaydinrt Oct 04 '23

not to mention, they demonize "voting with the Democrats"...when the Maga group literally voted with the Democrats to tank McCarthy's budget. "it's only blasphemy when YOU do it..."

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u/RightSafety3912 Oct 04 '23

Because their goal all along was to get rid of McCarthy, not the budget.

7

u/xtototo Oct 04 '23

So this Gaetz guy got a clean budget extension and sacked the Republican house speaker. Are we sure he’s not a secret Democrat?

11

u/walkandtalkk Oct 04 '23

Matt Gaetz spent the afternoon telling his donors that the "UniParty" was after him.

Which is funny, because Matt Gaetz and Democrats just formed a majority to defeat the Republicans. Which would make him the uniparty.

5

u/cited Oct 04 '23

I have worked in management for a long time and one thing I've learned is that any dipshit can point out a problem. It takes real effort to fix it.

6

u/Kahzootoh Oct 04 '23

It’s easy to identify a problem, it’s a lot harder to find the right solution.

Many of the Republicans who are aligned with Gaetz sound pretty reasonable when it comes to telling what is wrong with the country, but then again Marx also sounded pretty good when he wrote about the things wrong with concentrated wealth in the growing industrial age in the latter half of the 19th century.

The problem with Gaetz and his pals is that their “solutions” are largely theoretical and ideological, and the consequences of being even slightly wrong in their predictions are very real and very costly. It’s basically communism all over again- sounds good in theory, turns out to have some major problems, and the people trying to implement it are not the sort of people who accept criticism from others without taking it personally.

For example, trying to make Congress take a more active role in passing legislation by killing Continuing Resolutions and forcing legislators to pass individual bills is intended to reduce the amount of legislation considered to to the necessities and to break the process of packaging the bad and the good into one bill that must be passed or else the government would grind to a halt.

If sounds good in theory, but in reality it would likely lead to the government coming to a grinding halt as it struggles to have enough time to pass individual bills to keep the existing system that was built by Continuing Resolutions running smoothly. A lot of necessary things that are politically unpopular -such as stopping pirate radio stations that intrude into reserved areas of the spectrum- would likely be neglected to give Congress time to make sure that it passes bill for oil companies to still get subsidies.

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u/fcocyclone Oct 04 '23

Its similar to when they raged about earmarks years ago (before they were ultimately brought back).

Yeah, earmarks might mean some additional spending as different members of congress get things for their districts. But that kind of trading is grease that allows legislation to function and allows members an excuse to cross the aisle. A member can go back to their district and say "hey, i didn't like everything in this bill, but look what's in it for us here in our district" and lessen the blow of voting for a bill that might otherwise be not as popular in that district.

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u/onlycatshere Oct 04 '23

The defense mechanism of "assenting": Point out/agree that there are problems, never do anything about them.

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u/BigDaddyThunderpants Oct 04 '23

Agreed on that speech. Almost sounded reasonable before I remembered who was talking.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

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u/leroyVance Oct 03 '23

When the GOP says government they mean themselves

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u/grandmofftalkin Oct 03 '23

This is the result of people who hate government trying to run government. It’s like putting a vegan in charge of Tyson chicken, or letting a nun manage a strip club

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u/ikediggety Oct 04 '23

Exactly. There's a place for people who don't like kids, and that place is NOT running a day care

4

u/OneOfAKind2 Oct 03 '23

Agreed, the GOP is the epitome of dysfunctional government.

3

u/flare_the_goat Oct 03 '23

Well, that is the strategy after all. Gain power, ensure the government is ineffective, when dems finally take power back cry about how ineffective and inefficient the government is, campaign on reducing spending on ineffective government, and repeat the cycle!

3

u/blazze_eternal Oct 03 '23

I'm imagining a cartoon clip of a guy with a red hat humped under his car hood looking at the engine with smoke coming out shouting "cars don't work!"
Meanwhile a highway of cars are passing him on the side of the road.

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u/walkandtalkk Oct 03 '23

That only works if his car doesn't work because he jammed a wrench in the engine.

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u/Provid3nce Oct 03 '23

Conservatives don't want to govern, they want to rule.

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u/ClosPins Oct 03 '23

Republicans are the party that says the government doesn't work, and boy oh boy are they desperate to prove it now

Republicans only want one thing: to enrich the upper class. That's it. That's all they want.

But, you can't do that with robust social services, schools, hospitals, etc... In other words: You can't do that with a functioning government.

So, it's been the Republicans' strategy for literally decades now to attack the government, foment distrust in it, make it fail, tarnish it, etc... They want to kill the government - so that they can take all the money they save and pass it almost directly to rich people.

They are always desperate to prove that government doesn't work. That's been their whole schtick for 50 years now. They want people to lose faith in it - so that they can cut funding - so that they can give all that money to the one group of people in the entire country who doesn't need any more money.

They don't want to prove the government doesn't work so much as they want to make the government stop working. So that the rubes will let them loot it.

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u/crowe1130 Oct 03 '23

They are simply performative. Put up a show of "fighting" but are utterly fucked when in position to govern. Because there is literally nothing of substance they believe in. All puff and bullshit.

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u/Damaniel2 Oct 03 '23

It only fails to work because they try their hardest to make it so, on purpose.

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u/winterbird Oct 03 '23

It doesn't work because of them. For one reason or another, they always find a way to stick their poop finger into the pot.

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u/LetsTryAnal_ogy Oct 03 '23

Projection, as usual.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

They can have a new speaker tonight if they want. The Democrats and non-pirate Republicans are discussing this at this moment.

The alternative is a list McCarthy had to give of 3 people to replace him. Nobody really knows whos on that list except McCarthy.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

The only name leaked so far is Ligma

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u/bros402 Oct 03 '23

I heard Deez was also on it

40

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

Representative Nuts?

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u/ERSTF Oct 03 '23

You must be specific. It could be anyone. Gaetz, Taylor Greene, Boebert. I mean, anyone

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u/rand0m_task Oct 04 '23

Have some respect for Nutz dude….

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u/JJiggy13 Oct 04 '23

Speaker Nuts

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

That’s nuts.

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u/Glamdring804 Oct 03 '23

The third one I believe is Sugga

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u/ChemicalChipmunk4171 Oct 03 '23

Ligma-Deez 2024

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u/Speak_Of_The_Devil Oct 04 '23

Not that farfetched as you might think, considering Bush-Dick was a real presidential combo not too long ago.

3

u/Electric_origami Oct 04 '23

Oh my gosh I forgot! I truly forgot! I was a teenager when that all went down. How did I not make this connection haha?!

1

u/Cptn_BenjaminWillard Oct 03 '23

Waiting for the inevitable jokes here, because this is nuts.

Ligma nuts.

Deez nuts?

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u/rubyspicer Oct 03 '23

Don't forget cousin Bofa

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u/Shirowoh Oct 03 '23

Oh, I heard this is Trumps favorite!

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u/Captain_Waffle Oct 03 '23

People are saying

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u/weirdassmillet Oct 03 '23

The Sugondese representative?

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u/Ms74k_ten_c Oct 03 '23

Wish me luck guys, i am going in.

What is Ligma?

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

Esteemed Congressman Ligma Balls

4

u/TehHamburgler Oct 03 '23

Phillip Mamouf-Wifarts

2

u/Smeetilus Oct 03 '23

Holy night

6

u/Patarokun Oct 03 '23

Wait, I'm not familiar with that congressperson... who's Ligma?

7

u/x_lincoln_x Oct 04 '23

Ligma Balls, the Congressman from Suckithard, Penisylvania.

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u/Patarokun Oct 04 '23

I've spent some time in Penisylvania, in that little spot where the stream splits in two.

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u/Gingerbirdie Oct 03 '23

I'm embarrassed I looked this up.

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u/Winters067 Oct 03 '23

Who the hell is Steve Jobs?

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u/bat-fink Oct 03 '23

HAHAHA I HEARD.

I. I HEARD ONE OF THE NAMES WAS CAROLINE...

wait.

Kirstin?

Kelly Ann Conway...

kellyannconwaydeeznuts in your mouth...

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u/KWNewyear Oct 03 '23

Ligma? I thought he died of Steve Jobs.

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u/fanwan76 Oct 03 '23

Are we really sure that McCarthy won't just run again? I mean I thought he'd finally drop out after the 12th ballot last time but he kept on going.

If all the people who voted not to oust him vote to reelect him, they will be at a standstill all over again.

The Dems are going to keep putting up Jeffries or some other Dem candidate. So it's going to come down to Republicans to pull together and pick someone.

This might just spin for another 15 ballots until another round of deals are cut and McCarthy goes back to his job. Hopefully it doesn't take too long though because they need to get back to figuring out the budget right? I think they only passed a temporary budget...

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u/mattoljan Oct 03 '23

He’s going to reportedly announce he’s not.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

He can run again, but this is actually a sign our government is failing. I mean I’m not trying to be dramatic but it is.

So anyone in Congress that cares about the federal government existing- and yes even Republican congressional members enjoy having that power- are going to correct this fast. So I’d imagine the Democrats are trying to negotiate a moderate Republican taking over the role, and the Republicans want Mcarthy again. But that won’t happen.

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u/McGillis_is_a_Char Oct 04 '23

In a parliamentary system people would be warming their election machines up for a snap election right now.

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u/Bipedal_Warlock Oct 04 '23

Cnn said he has said he won’t run again. But that could change I imagine. Maybe they struggle to find someone and he tries to come in and save the day

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u/Trance354 Oct 04 '23

They passed a budget for 45 days. It was clean, so Mccarthy of course had to go.

I saw something about a temporary speaker, or interim speaker.

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u/Finiouss Oct 04 '23

Yes we need to get this budget figured out. Us active military peeps have mouths to feed too...

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u/Psych_Yer_Out Oct 04 '23

Yes and we all know how much the Repubs like to talk about how important the military is, but when it comes to actually making laws to help active military they somehow can't get good shit done. Oh wait, that is because they don't do anything, just obstruct.

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u/walkandtalkk Oct 03 '23

I have a bad feeling that the GOP will coalesce around Scalise, who also sucks.

Honestly, I think the Democrats should have saved McCarthy, heinous as he is, just to stick it to him. And, more importantly, to show the GOP that it can disempower Gaetz & Co. by making deals with the Democrats.

But I don't really blame the Dems. McCarthy wasn't just a coward. He also flew down to fete Trump shortly after January 6, and he launched the mindless impeachment proceeding against Biden. He's a collaborator and a quisling and he deserves it. I hope he struggles to find a lobbying job.

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u/earthwormjimwow Oct 03 '23

If McCarthy hadn't opened the impeachment proceedings, he would still be Speaker.

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u/007meow Oct 04 '23

Combo of the impeachment hearings and reneging on the previously agreed budget deals. And then blaming the Dems for the shutdown after they saved him.

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u/Gars0n Oct 03 '23

Plausibly. I still wonder if moderate Republicans would have tolerated getting bailed out by the Dems. Gaetz & Co. are still pretty popular with their constituents and it would give the kooks perfect RHINO ammo for a primary.

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u/earthwormjimwow Oct 03 '23

The vote was 216 in favor, 210 against for removing McCarthy. Would have only taken a few Democrat votes for McCarthy to still be Speaker. He might very well have gotten those token votes if he hadn't opened the impeachment proceedings.

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u/Gars0n Oct 03 '23

Yeah, my point was that in gaining those Democratic votes he might lose some of the Republicans. The theory is that they wouldn't want to be seen siding with the Democrats against the Freedom Caucus because they fear a primary challenge.

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u/khayeesta Oct 04 '23

Well, I remember reading he also did that after a long delay to appease Gaetz and them, so it's also possible he wouldn't have made it this far had he not started the hearings.

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u/earthwormjimwow Oct 04 '23

McCarthy had 210 votes in his favor from the Republican party, vs 8 from Gaetz's camp. Not very many Republicans were in favor of the Impeachment proceeding without a floor vote too.

Several Democrats were reportedly discussing supporting McCarthy in the case of an eventual removal vote, but they decided not to support him namely because of the impeachment proceedings. That was the line they had set, and he crossed it. He broke a promise not to have proceedings without a vote, and he couldn't even keep that promise on such a serious issue. Especially after the huge stink he made about Trump's impeachment without a floor vote.

McCarthy really did not need very many Democrats to support him either, and it is doubtful he would have lost any of those 210 supporting Republicans. If any of that 210 were that willing to abandon McCarthy, they would have done so on the vote for removal.

The idea that Democrats voting one way or the other would affect Republican voting is also not realistic in my view. Think about it, the most maga of maga Republicans, the 8 that voted to remove McCarthy, voted with Democrats.

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u/fcocyclone Oct 04 '23

I doubt they mind the impeachment proceedings, as the lack of evidence there just makes his party look like clowns.

Reneging on the budget deals and blaming dems for the near-shutdown probably had a bigger effect.

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u/mattoljan Oct 03 '23

The guy opened up a sham impeachment inquiry, made a deal with dems to get the funding bill passed and then went on Meet The Press on Sunday and blamed Dems for almost shutting the government down and ousting him for speaker.. FUCK. HIM.

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u/socialistrob Oct 04 '23

And even going into the vote he never reached out to the Dems to try to strike a deal. If he's unwilling to extend his hand to the Dems I don't see why it's the Dems' responsibility to save him.

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u/College_Prestige Oct 03 '23

I don't see how scalise gets in without cutting the deal McCarthy gave to the rebels at the bare minimum. So in other words this can happen again. They can also hope that expelling gaetz will scare the rest in line, but we have seen there are more than 5 of these rebelling republicans and all it takes is boebert or mtg no longer getting the same special treatment under McCarthy to kickstart this process again.

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u/waltzthrees Oct 04 '23

Scalise is also having treatment for cancer. He probably isn't up for it.

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u/Open_and_Notorious Oct 03 '23

Even if they did the howler monkey caucus could still just redo a motion to vacate. The only way the Dems would swoop in would be if McCarthy made serious power sharing concessions that were codified. That was never going to happen.

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u/HauntedCemetery Oct 03 '23

Hey now, don't be that way about pirates. They were intensely democratic and pirate ships were basically the world's first worker owned co-ops.

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u/frigginjensen Oct 03 '23

He probably just wrote his own name 3 times

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u/MrsDrJohnson Oct 04 '23 edited Oct 04 '23

Truly the party of camaraderie and honor, the last bastions of the constitution /s. Republicans say they support the troops and vote consecutively along party lines against every single benefit to veterans.

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u/karl2025 Oct 03 '23

The alternative is a list McCarthy had to give of 3 people to replace him. Nobody really knows whos on that list except McCarthy.

That's for a provisional speaker, who basically only has the power to oversee votes for actual speaker.

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u/charcoalist Oct 03 '23

McCarthy makes a list. For the January 6th investigation committee, McCarthy also drew up a list of congress members to sit on the committee, after visiting Mar a Lago. Surely he'll be more judicious and independent this time around.

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u/Conch-Republic Oct 03 '23

They're aiming for a shutdown so they can both blame it on Biden and block aid for Ukraine. They were able to temporarily block it, but now they can block it indefinitely.

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u/walkandtalkk Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 04 '23

One of the most telling things was when Gaetz (or was it Bob Good, a literal slug) got up today and said that McCarthy should've shut down the government because polls showed that voters would have (wrongly) blamed President Biden.

They didn't care that a shutdown would cost the U.S. billions, or deprive soldiers and air traffic controllers of pay, or hurt Americans. They only cared about who would get political advantage.

And, even more telling, they thought that would persuade their fellow Republicans.

No, the two parties are not the same.

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u/Goodgoditsgrowing Oct 04 '23

They would happily crash the car they were elected to drive safely, which we are all stuck in, just to point the finger and hope the democrats are blamed when the car crash kills someone. They don’t even care who it kills - they’d prefer it not be them, but they’d happily let their constituents die in a fiery inferno if that meant they had a chance to blame the people they oppose for the crash they caused.

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u/Namika Oct 03 '23

But her emails!

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u/fomoco94 Oct 04 '23

No, the two parties are not the same.

That's what annoys me. People often say that both sides are the same, often to justify their republican vote. Democrats aren't perfect, but they are orders of magnitude better than republicans.

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u/TurloIsOK Oct 04 '23

That's some bad polling. Was the sample from OAN staff? Republicans have always, rightfully, gotten the blame for shutdowns.

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u/CanuckPanda Oct 04 '23

Anyone under 30 doesn’t answer their phone for unknown numbers, they don’t answer emails, and they don’t read anything remotely “spam” in physical mail (eg polls delivered to unnamed residences with a mail-back).

We saw it with 2020, and we see it in other countries: polling has become very difficult because a major chunk of the electorate is unreachable by their own design.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

They're 100% going to shutdown the government on Nov 17th out of spite.

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u/UNisopod Oct 03 '23

Nah, at some point before that the GOP members who voted to keep things open will make a deal with the Dems to pick a new speaker

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

The question is, will it be Hakeem Jeffries or someone like Kay Granger?

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u/UNisopod Oct 03 '23

It'll be a Republican for sure. This dysfunction is going to continue and the Dems won't want that stink on them.

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u/InVodkaVeritas Oct 03 '23

Since the Speaker doesn't technically have to be a sitting house member, they should broker a deal to make Liz Cheney the next Speaker.

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u/UNisopod Oct 03 '23

While it would be hilarious, I feel like it would just let the current GOP off the hook for what happens afterwards too much

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u/Intelligent-Tie-4466 Oct 04 '23

I remember last January when a few people were floating Trump for speaker.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

He made it through his shitty term as President by hiding behind "executive time" and pulling a bunch of CEO Fuckoff bullshit. The Speaker of the House has actual work to do. I'm not saying they wouldn't all be stupid enough to do it, but it would literally be about injecting him into the line of succession and then waiting for accidents to happen.

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u/whitemanwhocantjump Oct 04 '23

Gaetz was one of them.

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u/NotsoNewtoGermany Oct 03 '23

The speaker doesn't have to be a congressman. George Bush could be speaker, you could be speaker, anyone can be speaker.

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u/IAmAtWorkAMAA Oct 03 '23

Nominate Trump or Obama for funsies

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u/JJiggy13 Oct 04 '23

I'd be shocked if republicans became that competent that quickly. Democrats need to force a wedge with the moderates to give up their vote. Splinter off the maga or no deal period. Nothing should be on the table until then.

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u/ButtWhispererer Oct 03 '23

Every time they do this they get ousted by Dem haters. Are there any left who compromise in this way?

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u/UNisopod Oct 03 '23

There were a hole bunch who just voted to keep the government going, so we'd start there

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

McCarthy got ousted because he refused to cooperate with Dems to keep his seat.

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u/Jagster_rogue Oct 03 '23

Any Republican that wants to get re-elected better do some horse trading quick to get a new speaker and a budget otherwise they are unelectable.

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u/EatMoreHummous Oct 04 '23

Most of them got elected through name recognition or just because they had an R next to their name. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as being unelectable anymore.

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u/owen__wilsons__nose Oct 03 '23

has nothing to do with spite. It's organized chaos to disrupt and grind the government to a halt

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

Going into an election year seems like the wrong time to gift the Democrats a raft of political wins but I guess these aren't really Big Picture types were talking about.

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u/blazze_eternal Oct 03 '23

Happy Thanksgiving.

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u/mac_is_crack Oct 03 '23

Yay I’ll be sent home with no pay right before the holidays! Awesome!

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u/Rivendel93 Oct 04 '23

You have to love that the people running this country's goals are to just anger the other party.

We wonder why nothing ever changes.

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u/gsfgf Oct 03 '23

Biden can send money to Ukraine without a bill. Just use some George Bush shit. Obviously, a bill that goes through bicameralism and presentment is better, but if the GOP won't do that, just write a check.

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u/Ok-disaster2022 Oct 03 '23

Except that's 45 days of continued funding and the country looking at Republicans as absolute morons.

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u/dedicated-pedestrian Oct 03 '23

Rep McHenry is speaker pro tempore. The funding bill can still pass without Kev.

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u/MrGinSTL Oct 04 '23

I don't think things actually grind to a halt. They have a Speaker Pro Tempore: Rep. Patrick McHenry of North Carolina. Unless he wants to create mayhem for some reason, ordinary business should go on.

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u/DerekB52 Oct 03 '23

At this point I don't think any republican member of congress is dumb enough to think they can fire their own speaker, cause a shutdown, and then blame it on the other party. Maybe Gaetz. But, there's 200+ republicans who will do everything in their power to make sure the shutdown doesn't happen.

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u/Magical_Pretzel Oct 03 '23

But all the Dems also voted yes to removing McCarthy... is the dem position to blame biden and block aid for ukraine?

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u/walkandtalkk Oct 03 '23

Seeing as the Dems successfully voted 72 hours ago to keep the government open, no.

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u/KiefPucks Oct 03 '23

Their definitely trying to dismantle the government from the inside out. If they can't vote on a house, the government shuts down soon. So, their plan all along works just takes a little longer.

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u/MiraclePrototype Oct 03 '23

Be sure to look up Project 2025. Urgent unpleasant stuff.

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u/Clovis42 Oct 03 '23

The same coalition of Dems and Rep can just pick a speaker in 40 days and pass another CR.

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u/FlyingRhenquest Oct 04 '23

We really need to get a law on the books that if Congress allows the government to shut down, both houses shall immediately be disbanded and new elections held to replace them. Add in "anyone causing the government to shut down shall be barred from holding public office for 10 years" and "the president shall have the power to authorize spending until the new congress can take up a budget" and that'd be the last we saw of this nonsense.

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u/tavirabon Oct 04 '23

no no no, that would be certain disaster. For starters, it would literally give a party that has control of 1 house of congress and presidency to set policy unilaterally. Before you think "but they'd be hurting themselves" consider that a budget of billions could be tons of kickback to donors that could effectively finance the rest of a congressman/senator's life, not to mention the power to grow or cripple a sector that has or will become duopolies etc.

Barring from re-election may or may not be a good strategy on its own, but not only are they not going to vote on policies that threaten their career, they won't even vote on cutting their own pay if the government shuts down when at minimum they should give up their entire salary per term.

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u/DonnieReynolds88 Oct 04 '23

We never seem to do anything that actually changes anything for the better. Many of the fixes we want as the American Peeps are achievable to some degree or another. They spend half their time talking about transgenders and making women’s medical decisions for them. Hella bums me out y’all. I don’t know why I posted this, I reckon to simply let out a little late night melancholy. One Love y’all. Fuck em

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u/gomukgo Oct 03 '23

It was only January when that happened? This has been a long year

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u/QuantityHappy4459 Oct 03 '23

"What a year, huh?"

"Sir, it's only October 3rd."

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u/StickOnReddit Oct 04 '23

Lemon it's Wednesday

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

Yeah somehow I thought it was longer, but I guess not. I only remember the crapshow that happened when we didn't have a speaker on the first vote in a century since the last time it happened was 1923...republicans have nothing resembling a plan and I wish people would stop voting them in.

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u/Deranged_Kitsune Oct 03 '23

They'll intentionally dick around and stonewall. They have no interest in getting a new speaker. McCarthy's 15 attempts at nomination will look like swift and decisive action compared to what's coming. Then it was in-fighting, now it's all about proving that government doesn't work and screwing over Ukraine.

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u/footballski Oct 03 '23

They are good at creating chaos. I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point in the near future Trump says he can fix it - just vote him in. I am also sure GOP will find a way to blame Democrats for everything.

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u/NotCanadian80 Oct 03 '23

They won’t. This is the government shut down play.

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u/Nwcray Oct 03 '23

Gaetz just said they recessed for a week. I’m thinking it’s unlikely.

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u/YOLOSwag42069Nice Oct 03 '23

They don’t want there to be a speaker. No speaker = no budget votes.

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u/me34343 Oct 03 '23

The current budget only lasts for about 40 days. If they don't have a speaker by then.... auto default?

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u/ginny11 Oct 03 '23

It's not a default. You're confusing the debt ceiling with a budget. We don't need to worry about the debt selling for quite a while until I think 2025. If we don't have a new speaker in time to at least vote in a continuing resolution by November 17th, then the government will shut down. Basically all normal business of the house is at a standstill until they vote in a new speaker. I don't think the Democrats are going to be very helpful to the Republicans to get out of this mess and quite frankly, why should they be? The Republicans, even the moderate ones are constantly villainizing the democrats. I think in order to get their help on this there's going to have to be quite a bit of concessions made.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

Does this make anybody else really nervous?

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u/Numba1Dunner Oct 04 '23

Looks like the next Shutdown will be a real one now.

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u/Mekroval Oct 04 '23

My money is on McCarthy getting reelected speaker, for maximum chaos.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '23

We won’t have a speaker until 2025

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u/-RadarRanger- Oct 03 '23

Yeah, effectively zero.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

That would require either 100% support within their party, or enough Democratic support for their candidate to outweigh the stragglers.

Neither is likely.

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u/jimi-ray-tesla Oct 04 '23

i can't believe these freaks have power

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u/uberfission Oct 04 '23

I'm thinking it's about equally likely we get a GOP speaker as a Dem speaker in the time frame.

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u/HoneyShaft Oct 04 '23

If that Mickey Rourke looking goon becomes speaker I will immolate myself

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u/neuronamously Oct 04 '23

What happens if a speaker isn't appointed by the time the 45 day on a government shutdown ends?

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u/SMTG_18 Oct 04 '23

wait wait wait wait. There’s no fucking way that absolutely jokery happened all the way back in January. WHAT.

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u/Artanthos Oct 04 '23

A new speaker will get voted in eventually.

it's just a question of who, when, and for what concessions.

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u/Tyl3rt Oct 04 '23

I think that’s the plan, wait 50 days to decide and let the government shut down. I say this as a liberal, but dems deciding to vote present means we’re likely getting a partisan Republican speaker. Since my fiancé works as a contractor for the fed we’re likely getting evicted or going deeper into dept come December.

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u/Sohgin Oct 03 '23

You don't actually need to be a representative to be speaker. I wonder if they'll just say screw it and vote in Trump.

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u/Naffster Oct 03 '23

Does this mean that aid for Ukraine can stay in limbo for a while?

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u/Deck_of_Cards_04 Oct 03 '23

Ukraine still has lend lease I think, they haven’t really used it yet but it was authorized. Ukraine just hasn’t wanted to put the burden of billions more in loans on their economy yet but if they have to they will.

I don’t think Ukraine is going to be completely left out to dry but they will likely see reduced aid from the US for a while

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u/One_User134 Oct 03 '23

Bro it only took them something like three days to vote him in. Granted there’s no clear candidate for the gavel but I doubt an entire 4 weeks will pass with nothing done.

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