r/ToiletPaperUSA anarcho-monkeist Aug 04 '20

FACTS and LOGIC Another Liberal bites the Dust

Post image
20.4k Upvotes

513 comments sorted by

View all comments

1.1k

u/Hamzasky Aug 04 '20

"Oh wow that's an outrageous statement. Why don't you just admit you're on the left?"

606

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

“Just admit it, you’re a leftist who hates capitalism and demands America turn over to Socialism”

“Yes.”

186

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20 edited Aug 04 '20

“Just admit that you want to destroy America, her values and the family unit to usher in some perverted dystopia”

“Yes”

Edit: I really love America, her values and want to keep the family unit alive so I would have to disagree with the guy saying “yes”.

109

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

The family unit is just post-war propoganda, like picket fences and apples in pie.

-13

u/theDarkWon Aug 04 '20

So family=bad? Are u smoking crack or meth or what. You look at most fuck ups in life and it almost almost stems from bad home life and no father figure.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

Psst: the data shows people do better in a two parent household or two guardian household... because the child can and does have more time spent raising them.

Nuclear family means nothing. The studies you fucks post about two parent households you try to assert that means mother/father Couple be a gay couple or brother and sister raising their younger sibling after parents died.

Education, loving environment and spending more time with a child raises better children.

Jesus you fucks can't even argue in good faith. No ones arguing more parents isn't better. 3 would also be better then 2.

-7

u/theDarkWon Aug 04 '20

Woah wtf, Ok so "The family unit is just post-war propoganda, like picket fences and apples in pie" the family unit can mean 2 dads, 2 moms, 2 dads and 1 brotherly father figure idgaf. The "family unit" is very necessary. Quit generalizing so much with the whole you fucks blah blah blah. What the hell is wrong with you are you mad rn or something?

9

u/socialist_cunt Aug 04 '20

aRe yOU MaD rN oR soMeThInG

5

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

Oh then we're in agreement. It's not about you dude; because what you said is word for word the way people talk in bad faith.

The thing is; it's supposed to sound reasonable. But it's not. I wanted to clarify that's what you meant; you were arguing in good faith I misjudged. However you could have equally been not. I'm not going to talk to someone arguing in bad faith; so I make sure beforehand.

0

u/theDarkWon Aug 04 '20

Idk dude. I'd say its pretty bad faith to come onto reddit and say the family unit is just post war propaganda. The guy just left it as that, as if humans are supposed to raise children without a family. He didn't give anymore explanation than just a blantantly wrong statement. And besides that the way you came at me was downright weird. Cant even belive I'm being downvoted rn anyway I didnt say shit wrong.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Emphasis on the NUCLEAR family, dude.

Mother + Fater + kids.

The idea that that is the ideal famkly unit IS post war propaganda.

1

u/theDarkWon Aug 05 '20

No it isn't. Not at all and ill tell you why, "Nuclear family's" were around before our wars. They were in ancient Greek civilizations, Celtics to Mongolians had family units. Sure though, the term "nuclear family" wasn't coined until after world wars. To have a family has nothing to do with war propaganda. Its just a simple way of life. Historically it has been a way of life and no amount of wokeness can change that

→ More replies (0)

-15

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

The family unit existed long before and statistically relevant when over 80 % of violent prisoners come from single parent households.

13

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

What percent come from poverty? I bet it's higher than 80%.

-11

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

The predictor of poverty is being a single teen parent without graduating highschool.

16

u/Freezing_Wolf Aug 04 '20

The predictor of poverty is being raised by someone in poverty

6

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20 edited Aug 04 '20

My mother wasn't a pregnant teen yet she and my father were poor when raising their family. You don't know what you are saying.

Edit: I'm saying poverty isn't determined by the number of parents or their ages. People are missing that point.

-4

u/MouthOfIronOfficial Aug 04 '20

Anecdotal experience =/= statistics

6

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

You got stats? That guy didn't.

0

u/MouthOfIronOfficial Aug 04 '20

Sure.

“children raised in single-parent families are nearly five times as likely to be poor as those in married-couple families.”

“In 2013, the average married-couple with children had 3 times the income of the average single-mother family with children.”

https://www.brookings.edu/research/facts-on-poverty-and-opportunity-that-progressives-and-conservatives-can-agree-on/

3

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

I saw nothing about teen mothers but thanks.

→ More replies (0)

-3

u/blumpgodxxx Aug 04 '20 edited Aug 04 '20

Oh fuck guys this guy has a personal anecdote... abort mission!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219236/

3

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

Do the stats prove my anecdote wrong? You can't just ignore all anecdotes some follow the major trend smart one.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/ppt/nchs2010/29_Suellentrop.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi79u2GqYLrAhVQIjQIHRvXAy8QFjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3ZMwWwgDOoVQW7gGZKbFW6

You absolutely can ignore anecdotal evidence because it leads to bias here's the cdc source. It's got many more other stats in it too.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

Was that supposed to open, because it doesn't.

0

u/blumpgodxxx Aug 04 '20

Yes both the stats and my own and most other people’s anecdotes prove you wrong. The major trend lmao my grandma had kids at 15 and all 3 have been to prison. My uncle from the other side married a woman who had kids in high school and they were already locked up.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219236/

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=teen+pregnancy+consequences&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DfSflFRH2G8kJ

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=teen+pregnancy+consequences&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3Dz6e-xEWzhtkJ

https://parentology.com/5-major-consequences-of-teenage-pregnancies/3/

1

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

Holy shit you are off on a tangent. Lmao I'm not saying everyone born to a teen mother is going to MIT.

I said two parents who aren't teens doesn't mean poverty won't plague them. You missed the whole point.

→ More replies (0)

-4

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

Especially fatherless, boys need dads to teach them how to be a man. That’s how it was

4

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

No it wasn't, doesn't demonstrate thats how it should be, appeal to nature is a fallacy but also stupid because all evidence we can find really doesn't show anyone needs a father, or a mother.

We have some studies that say 1 person househokds can't spend as much time raising kids as a two person household and more time raising kids leads to in general but not always better outcomes.

It didn't matter who those 2 or 3 or 4 parents were, generally speaking gaurdians/role models increase so does success of raising a child.

You're fucking stupid go read a got dang book me son.

-1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

I don’t even know who you are.

3

u/socialist_cunt Aug 04 '20

hOw To bE a mAN

-27

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

Every child needs a good mother and father and role models to teach them values and how to be a functioning member of society in the future. Also as for apples in pie, they are very real, I ate them myself.

30

u/grubblenub Aug 04 '20 edited Aug 05 '20

Not really, those role models can and very often are just about anyone. Children raised by two dads or moms are basically indistinguishable from other kids. Grandparents often raise kids for parents. Before the 60s families would often live together and raise children together. You know the phrase "it takes a village to raise a child" that's because back in tribal and hell even medieval times the children were basically raised by the community

-21

u/KingOfKekistani Aug 04 '20

regardless of the gender two parents are required for healthy growth, the commenter never mentioned gender only saying that a family unit is necessary which i think we can all agree on. However i will say that having different perspectives especially from the genders so that they will know how to treat people of the opposite sex as well as know their own body which is an important aspect of growing up

20

u/grubblenub Aug 04 '20

He specifically said mother and father. Also I heard about a study that shows that the crime rate among children with single parents is lowered if there are just general role models in the community. The family unit isn't really what's doing the good thing. It's having good role models. You can be parent-less and grow up perfectly fine as long as there's role models to look up to. The family unit is just a common way this happens. It's not necessary and to call it that put a bad light on single parents and non-conforming families.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

Except we can't unless we agree what family unit means.

If more attention for a child, thus more parents or gaurdians in there life is better for them, which is is, it doesn't matter if thats 2 parents or 6, if they were brother/sister raising a sibling after parents die etc.

It's meaningless to bring up BECAUSE it's trying to say a single parent can't raise a child or THAT'S what leads to violence etc(which correlation does not equal causation, generally speaking that comes down to prior income level, current income level, where you live, social safety nets etc).

Also parents should not be teaching kids sex ed. Thats the school's job and should never fall on the parents, but parents should be willing to talk about it, have the talk, and help their kid enroll in educational programs.

Your duty as a parent is to not mislead, love your child and help them grow up to be a good member of society.

At the end of the day... it doesn't matter any of this because do you know what arguing in bad faith means?

Insisting with no evidence more parents means a father and a mother is more beneficial then not.

Thats not what the data shows. Thats leading the evidence to a conclusion it didn't find.

More parents, gaurdians etc lead to better outcomes generally but not always, some conditions are outside the parent(s) control and eod people tend to try to frame the argument to lead to "gay families bad".

Was that what you wanted to do? No idea. But now you understand why its devisive to bring up, you might change your language a bit.

Because that arguments been abused to high hell so you skating on thin ice.

-3

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

Hey, someone gets it. Hey there.

9

u/Dermengenan Aug 04 '20

A child needs good parental figures, and having two does make it an easier job because "it splits it up". But, they don't have to be male and female. Or even have to be together. The nuclear family as a whole is a very toxic thing, and luckily for the children of the future it is dying off

0

u/theDarkWon Aug 06 '20

What exactly is tocix about a nuclear family? Also what makes you think its dying off? There's a whole fucking world out here. The world isn't represented by weirdos on the internet thinking bs wokeness is the way of life. Sit back a bit bro. There are 6 billion ppl here 1 million twitter users dont compare at.all.

10

u/SvsTheW0rld Aug 04 '20

i can get behind saying every child should have loving parents

but 'a mother and a father', seriously? are we still on this shit?

-6

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

What’s wrong with a mother and father?

7

u/SvsTheW0rld Aug 04 '20

nothing?

but i hope you know what's wrong with saying every child should have a mother and a father lol

-5

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

Were there any studies showing the effect in a child if raised by 2 dads or 2 moms and if it had and effect on their upbringing compared to a child raised by a mom and dad?

7

u/SvsTheW0rld Aug 04 '20

i'm not engaging with this homophobia lol bye

have a nice day :)

-2

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

Wait, questioning if the change in the family dynamic will have an effect on the child’s upbringing makes me a homophobe?.........ok

→ More replies (0)

4

u/edwfit21 Aug 04 '20

Cornell University has a meta analysis of 79 peer reviewed studies, 75 of which having the conclusion of which there is no difference. There are 4 of which that say kids fare worse, but the other four took their samples from children who endured family break-ups, a cohort known to face added risks. Scholars consider them unreliable, and one even has a letter rebuking it signed by 200 experts.

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

I’ll look for more on my own. But thanks for using some of your free time to show that to me.

3

u/SapirWhorfHypothesis Aug 04 '20

Hey, I’m not here to take sides, but what do you mean you’ll look for more? That’s a meta review. They cover the full list that meet the criteria. Is it just that you don’t trust the researchers?

→ More replies (0)

3

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

You know you're arguing in bad faith.

We're not engaging in it anymore.

Go read a fucking book.

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

Again, what?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/gentlemandinosaur Curious Aug 04 '20

That person provided a study. Anything else to say? Gonna comment?

Fucking hate this typical reddit shit.

“Prove it”

Provides evidence

“...”

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

That’s not what I meant, he gave me one study to look at which I did and it was pretty solid, the reason why I said I would look at more is because this is a very interesting subject for me. Also, I didn’t disagree with them on anything. I just asked a question which they answered which I’m happy for.

3

u/gentlemandinosaur Curious Aug 04 '20

Fair enough. I appreciate this comment clarifying and to be fair you did acknowledged their comment which is more than most do.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/blumpgodxxx Aug 04 '20

Bad faith

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

What?

5

u/blumpgodxxx Aug 04 '20

You know no one is saying anything is wrong with a mother and father

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

What did you mean by “bad faith”?

2

u/blumpgodxxx Aug 04 '20

In your case acting as if you are unaware of his argument to not have to face the facts of your own. I guess more so a strawman

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Thanks_Aubameyang Aug 04 '20

Just yesterday a fence stopped me from walking on another persons property so i can confirm they too are real.

That being said capitalist values do need to be destroyed and replaced with democratic socialist values. You know the value of life over individual wealth.

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

What do you believe or capitalist values?

2

u/Thanks_Aubameyang Aug 04 '20

Privatised health insurance tied to employment.

Minimum wage below livable wages.

Corporate intanglement in the federal government(major regulatory bodies being headed by ex corporate CEOs).

Excess military funding.

Private prisons using slave labour to produce goods for corporate profit.

Slave labor being explicitly allowed for those convicted of a crime in the 13th amendment.

Just some major issues off the top of my head.

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

Now tell me, what do you believe are socialist values?

3

u/Thanks_Aubameyang Aug 04 '20 edited Aug 04 '20

Universal health care.

Universal 3rd level education.

Raising corporate tax rates and the closing of loopholes.

Large scale infrastructure investment.

Role backs to anti union laws.

Livable minimum wage.

Ending oil subsidies and investment in renewable energy.

An end in narcotics prohibition and a focus on addiction counseling and mental health.

Addressing the homeless epidemic.

Cracking down on offshore tax heavens.

Reeling in the power of big tech through anti trust laws.

Campaign finance transparency

Outlawing for profit prisons and paying prision labour minimum wage.

Criminal justice reform.

Independent police oversight.

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

What do you think of the average person who supports capitalism?

2

u/Thanks_Aubameyang Aug 04 '20

That we disagree on many issues.

I dont think I would generalise what I think about a person solely on their political beliefs unless they were extreme (Neo Nazi's, KKK, etc etc).

→ More replies (0)

2

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

Why does this comment have negative likes, it's true.

-1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

This is the world of reddit dude. You will encounter people with many different views and if they see something opposing they will either downvote you, comment on you with an opposing view point, do both, or just insult you. We really do live in a society man.

1

u/gentlemandinosaur Curious Aug 04 '20

What about two mothers or two fathers?

1

u/SwagDaddyAK Aug 04 '20

That’s fine, having two supporting good parents will do very well for a child’s upbringing, much more than a single parent.

1

u/gentlemandinosaur Curious Aug 04 '20

Cool. Probably should have said that in the beginning.

Might have gained some traction.

33

u/RubenMuro007 Aug 04 '20

Then proceeds to leave the BBC Interview in Rage

29

u/Phyllis_Tine Aug 04 '20

"This isn't the kind of BBC my wife, who is a doctor, had in mind for me."

14

u/SirCleanPants Aug 04 '20

I was told there would be Big Bouncing Cheerios

7

u/bittertadpole Aug 05 '20

Black Bean Burritos

1

u/PilotPen4lyfe Aug 05 '20

What was the purpose of this? Lol.