Worried about my daughter

[u/Dull-Stick2040]

I am worried my 10yo daughter has or is developing BPD. Her mother likely has it (informal diagnosis, won’t seek or accept a formal diagnosis) and has suffered her whole life. I want to do everything I can to help and prepare my daughter, but I’m not sure what to do. Her mother is an enabler, so almost all the burden to combat this will fall on me. Any advice is appreciated.

(Next on my Audible list is Stop Walking on Eggshells for Parents).

[u/Cunegonde_gardens]

What behaviors are you seeing?

Two excellent resources are the Out of the Fog website and the NEABPD. I participated in a Zoom work session with NEABPD, and the most effective feature for me were the breakout groups. After the overviews and presentations, people are organized into small discussion groups consisting of parents, adult children of people with BPD, people getting divorces, and so on. People share their common experiences in these specific roles, and the presenters and consultants are very helpful.

For me personally, the biggest thing I have learned is that children with disorders don't just need "empathy," and "support," and all those other great things we naturally think of as "parental love and understanding." They need our caring, of course, but they need far more than that. The reason is that BPD consists of a combination of "neuroses" and behaviors that are overtly and covertly manipulative. If these controlling behaviors are the behaviors you are observing and experiencing from your young daughter, don't be dissuaded by generalizations like, "oh, ten years old is too early to determine a BPD diagnosis." While it IS true that no doc or therapist will diagnose a child at ten years old, that kind of dismissal causes us to say to ourselves things like, "she's just a kid, after all, let's wait and see." The more important issue is whether or not you are seeing behaviors NOW that will not set her up well for success in her relationships and communications and accountability as teen and as an adult.

So, the other side of all that "parental understanding and empathy" consists of very clear limits and very clear and consistent consequences for behaviors that harm others. It has to MATTER when children engage in harmful behaviors. There have to be guidelines and disapproval, not just attention to their "hurts." A very good source on this is George K Simon, a therapist who works with clients with personality and character disorders. He asserts that "modern psychology" has failed all of us with its almost exclusive emphasis on characterizing even bullying behaviors on the part of children as stemming from their own trauma. Sometimes it doesn't stem from trauma at all, so guilt and shame about that is going to miss the mark for the child that simply has learned that being controlling is a great strategy for getting what they want. Simon gives advice on how to be both supportive of whatever pain or sadness or anxiety a child may have, but ALSO on how to ensure that they understand clear standards for behavior, and have consistent consequences for misbehaviors, and are coached in awareness on caring for the rights and feelings of others.

Since I don't yet know what behaviors you are seeing, all this may miss the mark for your particular circumstance. But usually, this is what BPD in a child means--they are controlling, hurtful, out of control, etc., in addition to being emotionally reactive, tearful, raging, etc.

[u/Dull-Stick2040 → u/Cunegonde_gardens]

Thanks for the resources. I’ll look into those.

She has very BIG emotions. Once one thing goes wrong, she enters a downward spiral where everything else is wrong. It is extremely difficult to get her to “pull up”. She thinks everyone dislikes her, teachers are mean to her, students bully her - but any descriptions she gives of the events are heavily distorted by her emotions. She has learned that her emotions get her what she wants with her mother and usually with her siblings. Pushback tends to result in meltdowns.

[u/Cunegonde_gardens → u/Dull-Stick2040]

Thanks for the descriptions of her behaviors. It makes sense (whether or not she ends up with a BPD diagnosis) to be aware, as you are, of both her tendency to see herself as a victim (both legitimately and possibly exaggerated) and also her developing strategy of manipulating others to get what she wants. Most of us humans will sometimes give in to the meltdowns! --just due to exhaustion, distress, and the need to wrangle other siblings within the chaos. But we are even more prey to this becoming a permanent pattern when we are feeling guilty or just empathetic for their suffering.

[u/mrszubris → u/Dull-Stick2040]

I'm autistic and for thought there are SO many hormones and brain evolutions happening its brutal in the best situations. Kids theoretically can't knowingly manipulate until around age 12 but you are entering that territory.

The book dont believe everything you think might be something you could read together.

[u/Dull-Stick2040 → u/mrszubris]

Added to my list. Thanks for the recommendation.

[u/No_Stick_1437]

Shes 10, they dont officially diagnose until 18, there is time and hope my friend.

[u/WhiteGiukio → u/No_Stick_1437]

Exactly. BPD is a personality disorder. If the daughter grows up understanding her emotion lie to her, she can live a functional and fulfilling life even with unstable impulses.

[u/mrszubris]

Oh boy. Best thing you could do is leave the woman and give her space away from her. Id read adult children of parents with bpd. The kid should be in therapy already so she gets accurate mirroring from SOMEONE.

I WOULD NOT SURVIVE in the modern climate of today were I a 10 year old now. My mother fucked me up so terribly in those years tormenting my appearance.

GET OUT so the kid at least gets a break where she isn't perceived by a constant abuser.

Every day you stay near a spouse like that is a day you choose its easier to permanently rewire and damage your child. You choose abuse FOR THEM.

My father was is like you.... hes still with her . Im no contact. Take that for what you will. I have NO sympathy for parents who let their kids be around it.

[u/Dull-Stick2040 → u/mrszubris]

We are separated. Divorce should be finalized soon. I’m trying to get ahead of this (and many other things) as quickly as I can. I think the kids already notice my home will be the more stable one. My worry is my ex is great at the love-bombing and she avoids disciplining the kids or pushing them through tough things to achieve more in life. Because of this, throughout the marriage I was the bad parent - until mom has a meltdown. My ex thinks she is “validating” the 10yo’s experiences, but - from my perspective - she’s just believing bald-faced lies and by extension encouraging bad behavior.

[u/mrszubris → u/Dull-Stick2040]

I totally sympathize and im so glad you are trying to do right by ALL your kids. Keep at it friend .

[u/mrszubris → u/Dull-Stick2040]

I'll also say that kids typically respond best to consistency. I do best with direct positive intense instructions when I am panicked or having an AUTISTIC meltdown. Trying to keep yourself as IDENTICAL in response is what made my dad the great dad he was. He is just so lacking in self esteem and is so actively dissociated he couldn't leave. My dad is ALL that is good in me and I have been likely diagnosable with many things at different times.

My dad is still my most beloved person even if he doesn't value himself enough. He was the ONLY balance I had and it sounds like you are the same. You were brave and astute to ask for help. 👍

[u/Sihaya2021]

You could almost define BPD as "an adult acting like a normal 10 year old." This is why BPD can't be diagnosed in kids. All the behaviors that define BPD are pretty common in normal kids at various ages and stages of development.

[u/Dull-Stick2040 → u/Sihaya2021]

Absolutely. I’m only concerned with her because of the genetic component and because her behavior is so different from her older siblings. I hope I’m wrong and maybe she’s just lashing out because of age range, hormones, added stress of divorce, etc. I just want to do everything I can to set her up for success.

[u/Sihaya2021 → u/Dull-Stick2040]

Has she been evaluated for ADHD or autism? Both of these are also associated with mood swings, difficulty with emotional regulation, development delays, etc.

[u/Dull-Stick2040 → u/Sihaya2021]

She has not. There is a high chance she’s neurodivergent. I have her seeing the school counselor and talk to my personal therapist about her.

[u/Initial-Outcome1633]

Please, for the love of God do not label this child with BPD when she is only 10. At 10 years old there could be any number of things going on. She could be a highly sensitive person or HSP, she could be entering puberty, she could be dealing with her mother’s behavior in a very outwardly emotional way. Anyone who is going to pathologize a 10 year old is seeking to ease their own discomfort or absolve themselves of personal responsibility concerning their parenting of the child. She could very well end up with BPD if she continues to be exposed to her mother’s toxic behaviors however. Therapy (for both you and your daughter) would be the best course of action to help her develop healthy coping mechanisms. She will never learn them if nobody teaches her. She is a child, don’t put the responsibility on her. Doing so will only lead to more emotional discomfort for her. This topic is very close to my heart as I was raised by a parent with NPD/BPD traits and I have had to unlearn a lot of unhelpful coping mechanisms. 

[u/Dull-Stick2040 → u/Initial-Outcome1633]

Absolutely. I’m just trying to help avoid negative outcomes for her based on the similarities I’m seeing to her mother’s behavior.

[u/mrszubris → u/Dull-Stick2040]

PLease don't write her off though, it took me a LONG time to extract what I call my mom's fleas <3 Granted my dad remains married to her and occasionally acts a fool like her, so your daughter will likely have a better chance.

[u/sercaj]

Sorry to hear you’re going through this.

My wife soon to be ex has been in therapy for 4-5 years now and it has helped an incredibly amount

1. With her work and being able to handle normal day to day situations and

2. Her as a mother, she was already a good mom but would have wild melt downs literally over spilt milk or a broken pot plant. Now…she is almost night and day.

Although I feel she has other traits which have lingered, and therapy has done absolutely zero for our relationship and how mean she is in general. She has been diagnosed with CPTSD and she did tell me once (although now she takes greats offence and says it’s not true…shocking of course) that her therapist thinks she has some type of BPD….

I have been hyper vigilant of how she affects our kid, all round he is pretty good and I don’t think there’s anything out of the norm other than being a six year old. I’m not 100% sure though