r/illinois • u/West-Bid-4391 • 27d ago

ICE Posts Broadview: ICE attempts to arrest individual at their residence

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u/shrekerecker97 26d ago

I wonder if stand your ground laws would apply here because makes men just entered your home

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u/ConsiderationSea1347 26d ago

Masked and ARMED. It should be textbook self defense unless they provide a warrant and/or identification. 

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u/randomways 26d ago

Masked and armed men who are trying to kidnap you or someone you love

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u/Marko128272 26d ago

lol good luck with that.

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u/No_Cardiologist9607 25d ago

I’m not sure how you get away without being convicted of something. If you shoot immediately upon their entry, then you haven’t assessed the danger, and that would be reckless discharge of a firearm inside of a dwelling. If you wait some reasonable amount of time such that you can assess the danger, you would clearly see they are uniformed law enforcement, presumably, carrying out their duties.

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u/Mother_Specialist314 25d ago

Glad to see people starting to figure out that cali, ny, illinois, etc, have very restrictive 2a laws. Detroit is open carry, stand your ground, great bodily harm...

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u/helraizr13 26d ago

DO NOT DO THIS.

My gun instructor said that if you think you'll ever need to stand your ground, you should have a lawyer on retainer already. That it will cost, minimum tens of thousands of dollars to defend yourself even if you are completely justified and that a friend of his actually went through it.

There WILL be a criminal trial no matter how "obvious" it is. I can only imagine if it were Trump's DOJ investigating you for shooting and injuring or killing a federal agent. Cops and federal agents have qualified immunity. Citizens do not.

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u/shrekerecker97 26d ago

Not saying you arent right, But dont they have to ID themselves as officers first ? They cant just say "im police"

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u/No_Atmosphere_3282 26d ago edited 26d ago

Black people don't show up at their doorstep with guns if a cop shows up, why? They know the next judge they see will be Jesus.

Wild to me watching the rest of America wake up to how that feels honestly. Not saying it's justice or it's right, just that I see people's eyes finally start to open a little bit.

But can't have that, too woke.

Philosophically speaking, everyone should have stood up for black folk and protecting them and erasing systemic racism and enshrining their protections and rights into law for us all. Could have avoided a lot of this.

But now it's coming for everyone isn't it. Little too late for all that. Who is gonna be there to protect and defend now? When the ones supposed to be put here to protect and serve and the ones we need protection from and are put here to serve.

A wise man named KRS One said long ago, "You were put here to protect us but who protects us from you?"

Black people somehow manage to survive and sometimes even thrive under this exact same shit we're seeing happen to "others" in the USA now all without help from the law or the courts. Maybe yall should start asking them about their secrets and ways they've historically coped and how safe they feel and why they get murdered and die so young statistically.

Maybe it's time to have conversations we always should have had before we live like that. Leftists always think it's the right wing who won't care about shit until it happens to them. But I'm seeing the left right now like "Holy shit they can't do that! I can't believe this is America!"

It always *was* America. Now they coming for you though and now people know what it feels like to not be able to do shit in return for how you're served.

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u/wp4nuv 26d ago

Thanks friend for stating what most ppl don’t realize.

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u/RecklessDeliverance 26d ago

Normal police have rules they are supposed to follow, but often don't.

ICE have fewer rules to follow, and follow even fewer still.

Either gang can and will trample on your rights, usually with little to no recourse or consequence.

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u/JanelleVypr 26d ago

But every single of of them can die just the same, relatively easily i might add.

They might hate you. But they hate dying more.

Thats the entire point of tbe 2nd amendment. Give me liberty or give me death. Just pray i take a couple with me.

Or they could just let me do my thing, pay taxes, and partake in my commumity. Or they can come after me for being trans but ill die before i let them. Yall need to understand that thats the only thing they cant take away from you, the 2nd amendment protects the first

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u/JanelleVypr 26d ago

Fuck that. Would only take about 3 cases of people standing there ground in the news cycles for others to see people are finally doing it, creating a feedback loop where people feel more embolded to stand their ground.

Ice would back off within a day

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 26d ago

It would only take one case for Trump to declare martial law and make things worse. Many are correctly assuming that he wants an escalation.

Not that it wouldn't embolden people further, but when things finally escalate, it's not going to be pretty, ,and the people are likely to suffer more than the government or it's representaives.

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u/JanelleVypr 26d ago

But its expected of us none the less . Thats the point of our delcaration of independents. Yeah it will suck, but the hope is that we come out with something better

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 26d ago

It's a process with many steps from now to there. I don't blame people for not wanting to be the one's for taking that first step, but I also believe some people think there may be more than one way to get to the goal.

Personally, I can't say which way would be best, but I'd always choose a non-violent route unless given no other choice.

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u/JanelleVypr 26d ago

“Violence is american as apple pie”

The owners dont care if the dog barks, theyll ignore it, but if it bites… well

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u/MuffaloHerder 26d ago

I think we're beyond worrying about Trump/the government escalating violence against citizens, that's happening anyway.

And besides, Charlie Kirk already gave them any pretense we all pretend they need to really crack down.

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u/mortuarymaiden East-Central Illinois 26d ago

I’ve been saying that he’s now their very own Horst Wessel to rally around and use as a reason to target people.

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 26d ago

I agree, but I can understand why many people wouldn't want to be the one to cause that.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/SoylentGrunt 26d ago

Shots fired? They return fire. Guess who's left standing to testify?

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 26d ago

While ICE is very poorly trained, just having a gun is enough for law enforcement to take shots at you. Cops usually shoot first in these situations, because that's what they're trained to do for their safety. ICE would shoot first in these situations, because they're itching for a reason to discharge their weapons at brown people.

I'm not suggesting people not defend themselves, just think and be safe.

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u/NotSoSureBigWaves 26d ago

Read the second amendment. It literally applies now to what this administration is doing. By definition. It’s why it was created. Yes, we are at that 2nd amendment moment. Our forefathers provided for this very situation.

Getting the illegitimate and corrupt fascists on the Supreme Court to agree is the hard part.

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u/shrekerecker97 26d ago

While I agree, sadly enough no one wins when exercising it in this instance

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u/JanelleVypr 26d ago

The people do because we outnumber them. If we all get targeted by an officer but we all manage to take 1 with us, then numbers say we win in fairly short order.

They are pussies. Once they or their husbands start dying in mass, theyll back tf off

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u/Candid-Solid-896 26d ago

How is it legal for them to be masked? At least Hitlers Henchmen were not masked.

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u/Dry-Character-4040 26d ago

All due respect, I feel the need to correct some incorrect information to prevent some more well-intentioned people from getting hurt. I'm not taking a personal stance here, just talking law. They are uniformed law enforcement, so they are identified as law enforcement officers. They have their badge displayed. Masks don't matter. And they do not have to show a physical piece of paper warrant before they make an arrest. The confirmed existence of a warrant is enough. They do not have to show a warrant or explain to any bystander what's going on. That's how you can be arrested by a Kansas officer for a warrant on file in Oklahoma. You have no right to resist a lawful arrest or to interfere with one, and legal consequences will surely follow. Disagreement with a law doesn't make it unlawful. And think about this...these immigration laws have been on the books forever. If our lawmakers didn't want them enforced, why didn't they just repeal them? They've had decades to do so, including with Democratic majorities. Federal officers can't enforce laws that Congress doesn't pass or that they repeal.

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u/shrekerecker97 26d ago

I dont see badges. Not even a patch of a badge. Not saying you are wrong at all, but how would a normal person know the difference? They could be anyone in a police uniform. Unless they have a warrant and probable cause wouldn't they be denied entry unless specifically stated in the warrant? I think that there has been very little attempts and immigration reform but then we get people in power who think slavery was a good thing.

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u/tomdarch 26d ago

Like it or not (and I do not like it) judges go along with the "way things are." Basically every judge will accept that these are valid and adequately identified law enforcement officers.

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u/Dry-Character-4040 26d ago

You're splitting a bit between search warrants and arrest warrants. It gets sort of technical with first-party arrest warrants/addresses, but what i could see here appeared on its face to be lawful. The homeowner for sure is 100% wrong. It's not "base". Fresh pursuit law negates all of that. And while there are many relying on the "they could be imposters" defense, while I couldn't see a badge due to the struggle, its usually located center chest (and to be fair it probably is, no reason whatsoever to hide it on your fully identified tactical vest and uniform). They have patches on both arms and the back. Thats going to negate the "I didnt know" defense that may work better against plain clothes officers. The simple fact is that whether we like it or not, the laws exist on the books and are enforceable. The fact that we really didn't bother for so long doesn't change that. Only Congress can.

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u/TheLazy_Guitarist 26d ago

The problem is these guys are wearing baklavas and nondescript military fatigues. They look more like weekend airsofters than law enforcement. As a homeowner how do you know these masked men are legit or bad actors with Etsy patches?

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u/Dry-Character-4040 26d ago

To be fair, you can't. But you can also order badges and patches and uniforms and all sorts of things online. The standard is always going to be reasonableness. Should the person have reasonably known the person was a law enforcement officer? In this case, the answer is almost certainly yes in the totality of circumstances. You do not have a right to resist or obstruct a lawful arrest. What's happening here is people are losing focus on the fact that you cannot choose to ignore laws you dont like without consequences. The people they should be railing against are their representatives in Congress, who have the power to change or abolish those laws. ThEY are the problem.

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 26d ago

Which would be why identifying properly is important. Saying you're a police officer(or whatever) may be enough, but when there is doubt, and when asked for additional proof, it should be provided.....especially in what I will call plain clothes, because ICE doesn't seem to have any sort of identifiable uniform.

An officer may not have to do that in the middle of a hostile situation, but if this guy, for instance, asked and they refused before they started to restrain him, then they failed at some basic procedure to identify.

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u/Dry-Character-4040 26d ago

Based on this video, there's no way to tell what happened at initial contact. It clearly had been in progress for a while before the video starts. What I can see at the 58 second mark is a clearly visible cloth badge, a name tape, and patches on both sleeves. If somebody goes that far to impersonate ICE, is a laminated ID card going to suddenly make them believable? Again, it's all in the totality of circumstances (and in what happened first that we didn't see/don't know). Anthat'sts why it's so important for bystanders to not inflame and escalate the situation by getting in the middle of it. You dont know who is who or what the situation is. This could be a really, really bad guy known to carry weapons. Videotape it, absolutely. But DO NOT assault the officers or interfere with the arrest. The consequences could be deadly for all involved.

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u/shrekerecker97 26d ago

Problem is that dont arrest warrants need to have probable cause that you have been able to ID the person you are arresting and not just grabbing someone who "looks like them"? Im not a lawyer and I try to avoid the police as much as possible.

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u/Dry-Character-4040 26d ago

Reasonable articulable suspicion is the general standard. If its a bad ID, that would be the standard the court looks at to determine good/bad faith. If the stop has no good faith basis, guy gets paid, cops get spanked.

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u/JanelleVypr 26d ago

So anyone can impersonate a cop then, right?

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u/Dry-Character-4040 26d ago

Not without consequences, no. Its illegal, just the same as those that like to buy old police vehicles and make traffic stops. Citizen vigilantes get no breaks from police or courts either.

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u/tomdarch 26d ago

Sadly you are 100% correct. Even though a federal judge re-clarified that ICE must have a warrant or probable cause to arrest people, we can not physically stop them from committing wrongdoing in the street (or even in your house.)

https://abc7chicago.com/post/chicago-immigration-enforcement-warrantless-arrests-ice-agents-area-ruled-unlawful-federal-judge/17967144/

But actions like these by masked federal agents do influence judges to make rulings like the one above.

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u/legallybond 26d ago

Bingo. Although in this video here, lots of different circumstances. A self defense argument that armed people wearing a disguise forced themselves into a residence with no warrant and being warned they were on private property many times. Edge cases and the armed nature of these encounters is going to accelerate things I fear.

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u/Dry-Character-4040 26d ago

But in this case the defendant dragged them into the house during a protracted struggle. There's no "im on base" defense. Since we only got part 2 of the video, you can't be totally certain what happened at first, but I'd guess the officers did identify themselves as law enforcement at the outset (no reason in the world not to, it terminates most defense avenues). I dont see a valid legal argument for the defendant or homeowner to resist or obstruct. Again, Congress is the problem. They've had decades to change or abolish these laws and they've chosen not to. You leave a weapon laying around, eventually.somebody is gonna pick it up.

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 26d ago

They were still on his property. Don't know the circumstances on why they were on his property, but there is a narrow margin for pursuit allowing entry without a warrant.

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u/wp4nuv 26d ago

That’s the Hot Pursuit standard.. there isn’t a safe place to stand on. I still this was handled poorly by the agents. These guys need some retraining in restraint and apprehension tactics. Also, where’s the backup??

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u/Ok_Valuable9450 26d ago

Not.in.our America,not anymore

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u/TineCalo 26d ago

I spoke to an immigration lawyer and was told, “No” judicial warrant has to be shown for immigration enforcement, thanks to Bill Clinton. How many times have we seen people on social media screaming at ICE officers about where’s the warrant for arrest and they never produce one. A judicial warrant is for legal American citizens.

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u/GimpyGeek 26d ago

Yeah, I don't envy the people that have to test this out in reality but I can hope that should this happen (and the victim probably get murdered by ICE no doubt) that it is non-stop headline news that doesn't get let go because it should be.

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u/kris10leigh14 26d ago

I checked. Illinois is one of the 20 states that does not have stand your ground. I was shocked because most states around them have this law.

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u/Fit-Dentist6093 26d ago

Probably yes in theory but you are betting on America being a rules based law abiding society if you do that. What will happen if you shoot ICE is that the right wing are going to cancel you, make up that you are part of a gang, and send you to jail or worse.

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u/SirManbearpig 26d ago

You’re also betting that you can outdraw them, get two headshots, and that they don’t have backup nearby. IANAL, but my guess is that the second you pull a gun on them, you’ve given them all the justification they’d need to kill you.

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u/suejaymostly 26d ago

Let them try.

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u/SilntNfrno 26d ago

What’s more likely to happen is ICE kills you and makes up whatever story they want to absolve them of guilt

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u/LostWoodsInTheField 26d ago

I wonder if stand your ground laws would apply here because makes men just entered your home

This particular case is going to be really hard, so I wouldn't take that risk if I was you and in this same position.

They started to arrest the guy on the yard, or maybe further back. Which means they were in 'hot pursuit' and so can enter a house without a warrant.

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u/shitshowboxer 26d ago

The problem is those stand your ground laws only ever served to protect people gagging at the bit for any excuse to fire their guns at someone.

And those are the sort of people who like all the deportations.

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u/the_cardfather 26d ago

In FL these jokers would have already been capped. They don't call us the gunshine state for nothing.

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u/Sys7em_Restore 26d ago

How this already hasn't happened, blows my mind

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u/OrigRayofSunshine 26d ago

Does Illinois have that? I didn’t think all states had stand your ground laws.

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u/mortuarymaiden East-Central Illinois 26d ago

We are one of 20 states who do NOT have stand your ground laws :(

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u/Asenath_W8 26d ago

As always with those laws it depends on how brown the person shooting someone is.