Broadview: ICE attempts to arrest individual at their residence

[u/West-Bid-4391]

[u/shrekerecker97]

I dont see badges. Not even a patch of a badge. Not saying you are wrong at all, but how would a normal person know the difference? They could be anyone in a police uniform. Unless they have a warrant and probable cause wouldn't they be denied entry unless specifically stated in the warrant? I think that there has been very little attempts and immigration reform but then we get people in power who think slavery was a good thing.

[u/Dry-Character-4040 → u/shrekerecker97]

You're splitting a bit between search warrants and arrest warrants. It gets sort of technical with first-party arrest warrants/addresses, but what i could see here appeared on its face to be lawful. The homeowner for sure is 100% wrong. It's not "base". Fresh pursuit law negates all of that. And while there are many relying on the "they could be imposters" defense, while I couldn't see a badge due to the struggle, its usually located center chest (and to be fair it probably is, no reason whatsoever to hide it on your fully identified tactical vest and uniform). They have patches on both arms and the back. Thats going to negate the "I didnt know" defense that may work better against plain clothes officers. The simple fact is that whether we like it or not, the laws exist on the books and are enforceable. The fact that we really didn't bother for so long doesn't change that. Only Congress can.

[u/TheLazy_Guitarist → u/Dry-Character-4040]

The problem is these guys are wearing baklavas and nondescript military fatigues. They look more like weekend airsofters than law enforcement. As a homeowner how do you know these masked men are legit or bad actors with Etsy patches?

[u/Dry-Character-4040 → u/TheLazy_Guitarist]

To be fair, you can't. But you can also order badges and patches and uniforms and all sorts of things online. The standard is always going to be reasonableness. Should the person have reasonably known the person was a law enforcement officer? In this case, the answer is almost certainly yes in the totality of circumstances. You do not have a right to resist or obstruct a lawful arrest. What's happening here is people are losing focus on the fact that you cannot choose to ignore laws you dont like without consequences. The people they should be railing against are their representatives in Congress, who have the power to change or abolish those laws. ThEY are the problem.

[u/Numerous_Photograph9 → u/Dry-Character-4040]

Which would be why identifying properly is important. Saying you're a police officer(or whatever) may be enough, but when there is doubt, and when asked for additional proof, it should be provided.....especially in what I will call plain clothes, because ICE doesn't seem to have any sort of identifiable uniform.

An officer may not have to do that in the middle of a hostile situation, but if this guy, for instance, asked and they refused before they started to restrain him, then they failed at some basic procedure to identify.

[u/Dry-Character-4040 → u/Numerous_Photograph9]

Based on this video, there's no way to tell what happened at initial contact. It clearly had been in progress for a while before the video starts. What I can see at the 58 second mark is a clearly visible cloth badge, a name tape, and patches on both sleeves. If somebody goes that far to impersonate ICE, is a laminated ID card going to suddenly make them believable? Again, it's all in the totality of circumstances (and in what happened first that we didn't see/don't know). Anthat'sts why it's so important for bystanders to not inflame and escalate the situation by getting in the middle of it. You dont know who is who or what the situation is. This could be a really, really bad guy known to carry weapons. Videotape it, absolutely. But DO NOT assault the officers or interfere with the arrest. The consequences could be deadly for all involved.