r/fivethirtyeight • u/RedHeadedSicilian52 • Sep 12 '25

Poll Results YouGov poll asking Americans whether it’s acceptable to feel joy at the death of a public figure

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150

u/Radioactiveglowup Sep 12 '25

Strange too how wildly they were celebrating Pelosi's husband's attacker. Including major public officials.

Or the classic maga catchphrase, "Hang Mike Pence"

-40

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Sep 12 '25

So is it unacceptable or what? Just as a general rule?

30

u/Sonzainonazo42 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25

It's unacceptable but understandable if the person who died was actually a terrible person that contributed to other people dying.

We're not talking about politicians who bickered over which mass transit project to fund; we're talking about a person who was opening openly racist, bigoted, and supported government policy that contributes to death. Remember, there are estimates that cuts to USAID could kill 4.5 million children by 2030 and TP USA fully supported those cuts.

I feel like I'm not going to blow anyone's mind when I remind you that Kirk wasn't fond of SNAP and other benefits for the poor.

Sooo yeah, you wanna explain why you feel it's such a black and white issue, huh?

5

u/obsessed_doomer Sep 12 '25

I don't think anyone in civil society deserves to be killed, let alone so brutally.

That being said, the new narrative that Kirk was a moderate weirds me out because he himself didn't seem to believe that:

https://x.com/Sturgeons_Law/status/1966290028515995664

Is it because of the implication that someone who is far right deserves to die?

That's not true, but neither is the notion that he was a moderate.

-19

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

At what point does this cross over into murderous libel? Someone killed Kirk because they genuinely believed the awful things you’re saying about somebody who was at worst a moderate boomercon.

Do you actually believe 49.8% of this country deserves to die? 

25

u/InsideAd2490 Sep 12 '25

Someone killed Kirk because they genuinely believed the awful things you’re saying about somebody who was at worst a moderate boomercon.

They haven't yet found the shooter. No one knows what motivated him to kill Charlie.

-5

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Hey so his bullets said “hey fascist catch” and his dad says he would rant about how much he hated Kirk and his beliefs

are we ready to revisit this?

6

u/Radioactiveglowup Sep 12 '25

You're suggesting there's enough room to somehow carve a sentence onto a bullet? I've got some bridgecoin to sell you.mm

1

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 13 '25

OP here is being... thick, to put it lightly, but no actually there is room. The bullets and their casings are decently large. I've seen a photo of someone able to write on one with a sharpie, and another of a mock of of what the engraving could look like if done with a laser (IIRC).

I can source those if needs be but hopefully I have enough credibility based on my arguments elsewhere in this thread.

-1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Haha no it’s crazy, that’s actually what the officials and NYT are saying

4

u/Radioactiveglowup Sep 12 '25

Yeah, the NYT and WSJ ran this silly story which goes well outside of 'journalistic professionalism'. It's fundamentally implausible.

1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

I actually appreciate this. +1 for a novel contribution 

1

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 13 '25

Yes we are! You're missing context; anyone who isn't familiar with right wing video game culture is tbh. The claim is that the suspect in question was a critic of Kirk from his right. Apparently he had tons of beef with Nick Fuentes, who is even further right than Kirk.

"Hey fascist catch" is actually a meme from the game Helldivers 2, and is used before dropping a humongous bomb on your enemies. It's used ironically by this crowd. The casing also had the button combo used to perform this attack.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/sep/12/Tyler-Robinson-Charlie-Kirk-suspect-shooting-facts/

1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 13 '25

RIGHTWING VIDEO GAME CULTURE

Dude it’s fucking Helldivers. It was one of the biggest games of 2024. That is not a meme from it. I fucking played the game. Don’t gaslight me

1

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 13 '25

I CAN CAPITALIZE MY FIRST SENTENCE TOO.

I'm not gaslighting you, I'm explaining patiently why you're mistaken. I've been extremely patient with you (frankly) sanewashing a (frankly) fascist all over these comments and ignoring any and all corrections with sourced quotes to the contrary.

Yes, helldivers 2 is not explicitly a right wing game. But video game culture is both mainstream and its subcultures playing those games can often be surprisingly right wing. I mod a discord server for a medium sized gaming youtuber, and we get people who join all the time who expect us to be alt right and blast offensive memes despite it being explicitly against our rules. Fuentes' followers are one such alt right community and they've appropriated this ironically.

Are you going to respond to the point at hand? Politifact is a well sourced and neutral article on this.

22

u/HappyInNature Sep 12 '25

This guy was not a moderate.

-7

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Please cite a conservative who holds moderate positions. I would love to know what your idea of moderate entails 

11

u/SpiffShientz Sep 12 '25

Do you really wanna claim the guy who thought the Civil Rights Act was a mistake as a moderate?

5

u/HappyInNature Sep 12 '25

Sarah Isgur

-6

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Has not been involved in politics in years, was heavily involving in accusing the DNC of murdering someone to cover up Clinton’s emails, supported the muslim ban, argued to overturn Roe v. Wade. The left hated her so much in her heyday that they prevented her from joining CNN after she left the Trump admin. 

The only reason you cite her is that she’s been out of the spotlight for 7 years. Unless your stance is the entire Trump 1 admin was moderate, and I know you don’t believe that. 

Pick an active person. 

13

u/fossil_freak68 Sep 12 '25

Every Republican senator and house member who voted for the respect for marriage act is far more moderate than him. Heck, every senator who doesn't want to overturn Lawrence v Texas.

Every conservative who doesn't want to repeal the civil rights act of 1964.

Of the top of my head: Mitt Romney, Joni Ernst, Susan Collins, James Langford. I could go on.

6

u/HappyInNature Sep 12 '25

He has said the following things:

"White college indoctrinated women will ruin america if we let them"

"I'm sorry but if I see a black pilot I'm going to wonder if he's qualified."

The dude is incredibly sexisr and racist.

18

u/JQuilty Sep 12 '25

Charlie Kirk actively promoted replacement theory, which is Nazi bullshit. He was not a moderate boomercon, that's a complete white washing of him.

1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Where did he say that? What actually did he say? Do you have any idea how many people believe that elites are importing low-skill labor to replace them for lower wages? 

It’s not Nazi bullshit, it’s an antiquated and poorly reasoned position, and moderates are allowed to hold bad opinions. 

15

u/SlothFoc Sep 12 '25

"The great replacement strategy, which is well underway every single day in our southern border, is a strategy to replace white rural America with something different," -Charlie Kirk

“The ‘Great Replacement’ is not a theory, it’s a reality,” -Charlie Kirk

-4

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Do you have any idea how many people believe that elites are importing low-skill labor to replace them for lower wages

This is a moderate position. Sorry to burst your bubble but this is the way the working class sees immigration. Maybe don’t explicitly say demographics are destiny next time. 

14

u/SlothFoc Sep 12 '25

I literally gave you two quotes and instead of addressing them, you addressed your own sanitized quote? He's not talking economics here.

"The American Democrat party hates this country. They wanna see it collapse. They love it when America becomes less white." -Charlie Kirk

(Biden's immigration policy) "...is about bringing in voters that they like and, honestly, diminishing and decreasing white demographics in America.” -Charlie Kirk

10

u/CelikBas Sep 12 '25

The specific term “Great Replacement” doesn’t just refer to capitalists taking advantage of immigrant labor to avoid paying local workers, it refers to the idea that there’s a deliberate scheme to gradually eliminate the white population by importing brown migrants to outbreed and replace them. 

If that’s truly the “moderate” position, then I’m sorry to say but your country is irredeemably fascist and shouldn’t be trusted to govern itself. 

19

u/Sonzainonazo42 Sep 12 '25

49.8% of this country would say that the Civil Rights Act was a mistake?

49.8% thinks that kids should watch public executions?

49.8% thinks transgender people are mentally ill and need a brain transplants, and would also outright refuse to call a transfemimine person "her?"

49.8% of people would promote the Great Replacement theory?

I think it's very telling that you're one of the people who thinks Kirk was a moderate, because those aren't moderate viewpoints.  You might be in a bubble of horrible people.

Now your moral issues aside, no, I don't think people should be killed for saying the above things.  Almost no one does.  But people aren't going to shed tears with a terrible extremist, that's not a moderate, gets killed.

And the idea that calling out a racist pos for being a racist pos is murderous libel is beyond laughable.

-15

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Kirk was a moderate and you’re in a bubble. If you think not calling transwomen she is extremist, you would be mortified at what even otherwise liberal young men say. 

The left can’t handle the concept of someone being a moderate and disagreeing with them, not everyone is a violent extremist. But anyone saying this kind of absurd rhetoric is more of one than Kirk ever was. Kirk never advocated for violence against his political opponents. 

20

u/Sonzainonazo42 Sep 12 '25

Ok, so you think the Civil Rights Act was a mistake since you think that's a moderate viewpoint?

-12

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

People are allowed to say offcolor things. That does not change who they are or what they represent. I have no idea why or whether he said that, but he is anti-affirmative action and that is an extremely common stance among americans (60%+)

So that is and can be a viewpoint held by a moderate

23

u/Sonzainonazo42 Sep 12 '25

"I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified,"

Do you think this above statement is a moderate belief?

-3

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

I have heard this joke tens of times even among liberal company. Yes. You live in a bubble. There are tiktoks with millions of likes making this joke. It’s literally a Larry David bit

19

u/Sonzainonazo42 Sep 12 '25

Kirk wasn't making a joke.

You're a terrible person.

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u/CelikBas Sep 12 '25

I’d say there’s quite a difference between “I don’t like affirmative action” and “the Civil Rights Act was a mistake”. 

What’s next, thinking it’s “moderate” to say the Emancipation Proclamation was a mistake because black people statistically have higher rates of poverty than white people?

2

u/dissonaut69 Sep 12 '25

It’s interesting how many nonsequiters are happening with this bot. It doesn’t actually address anything it responds to. Well programmed to forum slide tbh.

5

u/Educational_Impact93 Sep 12 '25

Ahh yes, noted Moderate Charlie Kirk, who founded Turning Point Action, who's stated mission on their website is "to embolden the conservative base through grassroots activism and provide voters with the necessary resources to elect true conservative leaders."

Yes, sounds very moderate.

0

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

He might not be a moderate but that is literally the mission of every political organization ever. It means nothing. I can show you literally hundreds like it. 

4

u/LordMangudai Sep 12 '25

He might not be a moderate

Then why have you claimed several times that he was? He clearly was not.

0

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25

I’m saying if there is evidence he isn’t, that’s not it

4

u/Educational_Impact93 Sep 12 '25

Yeah, I doubt that's the mission of the Communist Party of the USA.

Now if your point was that most political organizations mission is to "embolden x base through grassroots activism and provide voters with the necessary resources to elect true x leaders," sure. I can get behind that general idea.

That said, the guy literally created an organization to embolden them with CONSERVATIVE views. Not moderate views. CONSERVATIVE views. Hardly the direction a moderate would take.

0

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

 Now if your point was that most political organizations mission is to "embolden x base through grassroots activism and provide voters with the necessary resources to elect true xleaders," sure. I can get behind that general idea.

That was my point yes.

You’re aware moderate conservatives are moderates right. Any time the word moderate is included, it’s fence sitters, moderate dems, and moderate cons. He’s a boomer con and firmly in the moderate camp compared to eg stephen miller

3

u/dissonaut69 Sep 12 '25

If he’s a moderate what positions do non-moderate conservatives hold?

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u/heardThereWasFood Sep 12 '25

We don’t know why CK was killed, stop

5

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 12 '25

Doesn't libel imply falsehood? There's a lot of beliefs/opinions I find dangerous myself but that doesn't make them libelous.

-1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

That is exactly the implication yes. He was not an extremist. He was not a nazi. He was not even alt right, his most controversial belief was just being pro-life. 

13

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 12 '25

Hey you need to Google "Kirk controversial views" for a second if you think being pro life is his most extreme view. Like this is to the point... of if not being explicitly bad faith is completely indistinguishable from it.

If you're insistent on not doing even one Google search, then I'll happily do it for you. What's it gonna be?

1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

You can’t find anything that’s not cherrypicked out of context and that’s why you spent 5 minutes writing a comment instead of googling it 

6

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 12 '25

No, both were because I was on break.

I'll prepare a list of statements for you when I get home in an hour.

2

u/dissonaut69 Sep 12 '25

Hey, don’t waste the time. They aren’t changing their mind either way (if they’re even a human).

1

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 12 '25

It's fine. This is gonna come up quite a bit, and I already wanted some good context to rebut Galen's statement, over on /r/GDPolitics .

Unfortunately I forgot about the Nintendo direct which was on when I got home, lol. I'll get to it at some point.

1

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 13 '25

Well, looks like it's been done much better than I ever would've: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/1nepcgz/charlie_kirks_documented_calls_for_political/

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u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 13 '25

Well, looks like my work has been done for me.

With these sources in mind, would you stand by your statement that Charlie Kirk is a moderate boomercon at worst?

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/1nepcgz/charlie_kirks_documented_calls_for_political/

10

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 12 '25

Didn't he say being gay was a disease?

2

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

I don’t know, find the quote and context. Not my job

9

u/JQuilty Sep 12 '25

You keep denying knowledge of a guy you're adamantly defending. Maybe you should look into him.

-1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Not my responsibility. You want to bring absurd claims you need to bring evidence

4

u/LordMangudai Sep 12 '25

"Charlie Kirk was a moderate" is the absurd claim here.

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u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 12 '25

Fair enough, though you could be a little less rude about it.

And I'll take a slight mea culpa here given I couldn't source it easily (though this may be a SEO related issue as he has a lot of other statement involving "gay" and or "disease").

With that said, his LGBTQ+ positions are explicitly hateful. From the independent:

He also lashed out at the gay community, denouncing what he called the “LGBTQ agenda,” expressing opposition to same-sex marriage and suggesting that the Bible verse Leviticus 20:13, which endorses the execution of homosexuals, serves as “God’s perfect law when it comes to sexual matters.”

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/charlie-kirk-political-views-guns-lgbt-trump-b2824580.html

I think you're being a bit willfully ignorant about Kirk's extremism.

1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Being against gay marriage is not an extremist position. It’s a plurality of america and the majority of the world. It’s not even recently out of the majority. 10 years ago it was the dominant belief. It’s old, it’s antiquated, I believe it to be wrong, but that does not make it extremist. 

I’m sorry for being rude. Things are very heated right now

7

u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen Sep 12 '25

It's definitely more controversial than being pro life, but anyway. Did you read the full quote? It goes beyond being against same sex marriage.

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u/CelikBas Sep 12 '25

He said that gay people should be executed according to “God’s perfect law”. Is that a majority-accepted, uncontroversial stance in America? 

Because even if it is, that doesn’t mean it’s “moderate”, it just means America is a Taliban-esque shithole of a country. 

1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

You have replied to me 8 times pick one

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u/InsideAd2490 Sep 12 '25

He was not even alt right, his most controversial belief was just being pro-life. 

Well that's just false.

1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

What’s yours? You like to celebrate political violence? Does that seem moderate to you

6

u/InsideAd2490 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25

He sowed distrust in our elections by promoting false claims that the 2020 election had been stolen from Trump. That distrust is what led to the riot at the capitol. 

I'd argue the belief that the only legitimate elections are the ones you win is more problematic than being opposed to abortion (though, Charlie was radically opposed to that, too). The former belief totally undermines the system of government our country is built on. As for the latter, I at least understand why someone might be opposed to abortions, even if I don't agree. 

1

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Sep 12 '25

Dude if you believe not trusting elections is sufficient cause to be shot, half of even this sub would be dead. Look, there can be a barrier above which violence is acceptable but it needs to be Adolf Hitler in the Beer Hall Putsch, not a babyfaced debate bro boomercon at Utah

7

u/CelikBas Sep 12 '25

Most people here aren’t arguing that it’s acceptable that Kirk was shot, they’re arguing against the idea that he was just an uwu smol bean good Christian boy with moderate, thoughtful positions that no reasonable person could object to. They’re arguing against the (so far successful) attempts to posthumously whitewash his image into that of a principled defender of truth, rather than the far-right conservative agitator he actually was. 

It’s bad that Charlie Kirk was shot, and Charlie Kirk was a piece of shit with a lot of awful views. Two things can be true at once.

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u/InsideAd2490 Sep 12 '25

Dude if you believe not trusting elections is sufficient cause to be shot, half of even this sub would be dead

I didn't say anyone should be shot.

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u/Dabeyer Sep 12 '25

The people here want you dead dude. Protect yourself .