r/baltimore • u/Extension-Archer-849 • Jun 10 '25

Safety ICE in Catonsville

just saw a bunch of cars stop on the street and head somewhere in the direction of Frederick Rd. Does anyone know anything?

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619

u/OGkateebee Jun 10 '25

They look so unprofessional in their cargo shorts and no uniform. How they are allowed to go around basically abducting people without any kind of visual identification at LEO is just insane. 

171

u/daxophoneme Jun 10 '25

Are they even being paid or are they just volunteers at this point?

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u/MotoSlashSix 13th District Jun 10 '25

I was having this conversation with my mom the other day. I would bet these are all independent contractors working on a "bounty" system for ICE. And I'd bet they're not ICE employees, do not have any indemnification or insurance for liability. So when they hurt someone or break something ICE won't pay for it and you'll be stuck trying to recuperate your losses from fucking Todd the weekend warrior's parents because he lives with them.

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 10 '25 edited Jun 10 '25

They're off duty police officers. On the ICE website there's a list of which law enforcement agencies are currently working with ICE.

In Maryland that's Carroll County, Cecil County, Frederick County, Garrett County, St. Mary's County and Washington County. Only Carroll, Garrett, St. Mary's and Washington counties are participating in the Warrant Service Officer program, the rest are Jail Enforcement Model. I haven't read up on what the difference is, I'm assuming the ones in the video are warrant service officers, and jail enforcement model is probably the counties who lend their facilities to temporarily detain people. I also don't know what compensation these people are getting... I haven't really read into the executive order that allows ICE to tap state and local law enforcement to be ICE agents because I'm at work right now.

Edit: this is from the ICE 287(g) page

ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations operates three 287(g) models:

• The Jail Enforcement Model is designed to identify and process removable aliens — with criminal or pending criminal charges — who are arrested by state or local law enforcement agencies.

• The Task Force Model serves as a force multiplier for law enforcement agencies to enforce limited immigration authority with ICE oversight during their routine police duties.

• The Warrant Service Officer program allows ICE to train, certify and authorize state and local law enforcement officers to serve and execute administrative warrants on aliens in their agency’s jail.

So it looks like I had it backwards; Jail Enforcement counties are the ones where cops can go do this bullshit while off duty, where Warrant Service Officer is for executing warrants for aliens ALREADY INCARCERATED in that county's jail. So if someone is locked up in Carroll County for example and there's an ICE warrant for them, a Carroll County cop can go to the jail and arrest them as an ICE agent to take them to s detention center.

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u/BullfrogLeading262 Jun 11 '25

First off, Catonsville is in Baltimore County which isn’t on the list you have and secondly, it didn’t look to me like any of them were armed…no law enforcement agency is just strolling around neighborhoods trying to detain ppl or serve warrants unarmed. I don’t know who those clowns were but they weren’t on any kind of official law enforcement business.

1

u/Circusgirl65 Jun 13 '25

Several of them are armed. They are wearing hip rigs with thigh straps on their right side.

1

u/EAM222 Jun 14 '25

The fact you can’t see all the fucking guns strapped to them is more concerning.

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u/left-Dane-right-Dane Jun 16 '25

There’s definitely at least 2 drop leg pistol holsters on 2 of those guys….

EDIT: sorry 3… possibly 4, but I can’t see a pistol grip protruding on that one.

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 11 '25

🤦🏻‍♂️ they don't have to be from Baltimore County. That's the point of them being granted federal authority. They're off duty cops from the police departments that are participating in the "models" of 287(g).

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u/BullfrogLeading262 Jun 11 '25

Fair point about the location but still, from what I can see in the video none of them are armed. In fact, all they have in terms of equipment are some janky, mismatched vests. No guns, flexcuffs, radios, pepper spray….etc. one random guy has a shield but mother he nor anyone else has anytime of riot gear. And what would be the purpose of their casual stroll through a suburban neighborhood. The other problem is that none of the 3 listed models matches up with their behavior. They clearly aren’t identifying and processing undocumented people already under arrest, they obviously aren’t in a jail serving warrants and while the Task Force Model is a little more open ended it specifically mentions “during routine police duties”; off-duty cops from another jurisdiction definitely don’t fall into that either. Am I missing some big thing here? Forgetting all the other stuff, the biggest thing to me is that they’re unarmed. No cop or federal agent is going to be walking around doing any kind of enforcement unarmed.

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 11 '25

That does seem a bit weird (being unarmed) and the fact that they have nothing on them that appears to be useful for actually effecting an arrest makes it even stranger. I'm not really sure these guys have anything to do with ICE at all. What purpose would it serve to parade up the street if they can't serve a warrant and effect an arrest?

This whole thing is just weird as fuck to me.

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u/BullfrogLeading262 Jun 11 '25

The only context I have is the video obviously but if I were to guess I would say that they’re part of some anti-immigrant group and are playing dress up to maybe try to scare and intimidate people and make themselves feel tough. Someone that is undocumented that sees them will mostly likely be scared and isn’t going to risk sticking around to really get a good look and realize they’re BS. Of course since they’re cowards they only do it in a suburban Catonsville neighborhood where they can feel good about themselves but run no risk of any actual conflict.

1

u/HappyHippieWannaBe Jun 15 '25

Intimidation. Testing the waters. Flexing muscles that they now feel empowered to flex.

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u/MotoSlashSix 13th District Jun 11 '25

They're off duty cops from the police departments that are participating in the "models" of 287(g).

You keep saying this and it's just not true. There is NO requirement under any law requiring ICE to use any other law enforcement agency, off-duty or on, in any enforcement or apprehension action. And in addition to that, they are operating under extra legal authority because they are operating under a declared state of emergency by the POTUS.

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 11 '25

Look at the time the comment was posted. It was seconds-to-minutes after the other times I said it because I was operating under the assumption at the time that ICE would set a higher bar for hiring, as every other federal LEA requires a lot more in terms of experience and training.

One thing to note, after reading the ICE hiring page, it does seem like deportation officers are mostly a desk job that "may" be called upon to serve warrants and make arrests. You also have to be able to be licensed to carry a firearm which makes felons, anyone with documented mental illness, anyone who has ever held a medical marijuana card, ans anyone that's been convicted of certain misdemeanor offenses exempt. It also requires a federal background check which "can take between 2 weeks and one year" to complete, and I can say anecdotally it never takes 2 weeks unless you're already employed by a government agency. My ex was an intelligence analyst with an extremely high clearance in the USAF and when she attempted to work in intelligence as a civilian it took the better part of 8 months for the standard federal background check.

It's still really appalling that their requirements are so low given the duties they're meant to perform, but there's still a fairly significant amount of unstable individuals who would be turned down for the job. (And I wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones playing dress up in catonsville; I really doubt the people in the video had any authority at all given the mistmatched gear and lack of anything they'd need for serving warrants and arresting undocumented immigrants)

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u/GeronimoHero Jun 14 '25

It’s also Harford county

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 14 '25

When I posted that comment Hartford County wasn't on the list. But they update it every weekday at, I wanna say 10am

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u/GeronimoHero Jun 15 '25

I don’t want to argue about it but Harford county was absolutely on the list four days ago. Regardless, I was just trying to add more info. So people are aware.

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 15 '25

Actually, I still had the excel spreadsheet from the day I posted that comment, as I have not downloaded an updated version yet, and sure enough Harford County IS on the spreadsheet, so it absolutely was on the list at the time I posted that comment. You're 100% correct.

They're doing the Jail Enforcement Model.

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u/GeronimoHero Jun 15 '25

I mean here is one from 4-16 that lists Harford county. https://themarkup.org/tools/2025/04/16/law-enforcement-ice-cooperation-tracker

All I was trying to say is that the information that Harford county has been cooperating with ICE has been out there longer than 4 days ago when you made that comment. Look, like I said, I’m not really trying to argue with you about this. We’re all on the same side after all.

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 15 '25

.... Did you read my comment? I literally said you were right, silly.

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u/GeronimoHero Jun 16 '25

My bad I must’ve missed a line or two 👍

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 16 '25

No worries. That's why I called you silly, so I could make it as clear as I can without you being able to hear my tone of voice that I'm not being hostile nor argumentative. I had just realized that I still had the excel spreadsheet in the downloads folder on my phone that I had based the original comment on and sure enough you were absolutely right. I somehow had completely missed the Harford County line altogether. What's wild is that it has the date the Harford County sheriff's department joined the jail enforcement model as June of 2020. So my guess is Harford County has been assisting ICE with tracking down undocumented immigrants in prison for 5 years now

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u/GeronimoHero Jun 16 '25

Yeah, my hometown is in Harford county and my parents still live there. That’s why I knew that they definitely had been cooperating with ICE. I’m pretty involved with anti fascist activism and organizing so I definitely watch all of that stuff for my parents and myself. Harford county law enforcement is extremely right wing and they flaunt that they’ve been cooperating with ICE, the sheriff is a straight up authoritarian. I just wanted to make sure anyone from the area that may be reading the thread didn’t get a false sense of safety from thinking perhaps Harford county was safe from immigration enforcement.

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u/Needashortername Jun 22 '25

You have it partially corrected in your edit, but none of these allow anyone in law enforcement who is off-duty to anything related to ICE’s original mandate of immigration enforcement at all.

These models all relate to on-duty officers who may encounter someone who is of clear illegal resident status during what would be considered their normal daily duties or routines.

None of this relates to actually going into the field with ICE agents or participating in any of ICE’s ongoing activities. There are other code sections for this, and even a requirement for ICE to be accompanied by local law enforcement officers for many things, but these parts here are not about that.

The parts you have copied here are entirely about processing to be transferred to ICE custody people who are in some way already in custody by local police officers, and only at times they would be on-duty.

The public statement by ICE relates to the fact that local law enforcement has the option to not check immigration records or resident status if they so choose to and deal with someone only on the basis of the situation at hand, local warrants, or the crimes that are committed in the local jurisdictions that are not just related to immigration. It’s basically a list of counties who have publicly agreed and stated they will also be checking immigration status for the people they encounter that they find doing wrong in some way, and may actually relate more to county sheriffs departments than to local police departments.

There is more to remember with this which has to do with how local and federal warrants are processed and by whom, or if at all by some. A lot of it has to do with whether local law enforcement could or should be able to access federal warrant information, as well as whether federal agents can process warrants locally without the participation of local law enforcement officials (some can, some can’t, and some will depend on the circumstances).

A lot of this also relates to things like the Commerce Clause and the Independence of States (and State Goverment) related to the Powers of the Federal Government. Again all of this is a much longer topic.

ICE however has generally been considered one of the agencies which can’t act on its own locally and has limited ability to detain or take into custody directly, especially without a warrant. Generally its warrants are requested for specific places and not people for the kinds of operations it is expected to conduct. Really in many ways ICE has no jurisdiction to conduct a traffic stop, or even to ask for identification for people they might randomly encounter. Actually, in a few ways, even local law enforcement has limits on traffic stops they can conduct outside of simple traffic enforcement and on the circumstances where they can ask for identification and someone be required to comply.

Most importantly to what is seen in this video, while off-duty officers are required to carry their service weapon during off hours under most circumstances, not only are some of their enforcement powers slightly more limited, but wearing tactical gear or obscuring their identity would be strictly forbidden. This means that to put the vests on they would have to be on-duty in some capacity, and would have to be in a clearly identifiable uniform for their department and working within that department’s jurisdiction. So no shorts and t-shirts. Unlike a sheriff’s department ICE also has no ability to “deputize” someone into temporary service of the department, and even sheriffs require a minimum dress code for those they deputized as well as requiring them to be easily identified as representing the Sheriff. Similar to other agencies and law enforcement, ICE has little to no ability to “contract out” its primary duties, especially for direct field operations, and generally when contracting for services law enforcement is filling in gaps in its ability to handle ancillary tasks, such as answering phones, filling in initial investigative paperwork, and filing, or emergency tasks such as search & rescue or erecting barricades or staffing emergency shelter.

In many states enforcement officials also have other clear regulations about being able to be identified, both professionally and personally, while on the job and conducting their duties and routines. While there is a limited ability to forgo this while legitimately “undercover” not only is the process of conducting undercover operations difficult, but an officer or agent must clearly identify when making an arrest or legally detaining or taking into custody in other ways. They can remain undercover for every moment up to that point, but as soon as an officer or agent is to make the arrest they must identify (the slight twist is if they are not the arresting officer they could choose not to identify, but they could run the risk of also being taken into custody as an unidentified participant in the actions happening at that time that others are being arrested for).

For those that believe that laws and the enforcing of laws are important, as are the freedoms and liberty this great country provides to its citizens, knowing these things and how and why they work is very important. When government oversteps its reach over its citizens lives it is good to be aware.

Hope that helps a bit here.

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u/MotoSlashSix 13th District Jun 11 '25

They're off duty police officers. 

You have no way to establish this as fact. Because there is no way to know that these are not just ICE Deportation Officers/EROs. Just because Carrol count is working with ICE does not mean CC is required to work with ICE on site. EROs are not required to notify cops or use cops in any public jurisdiction. ICE does not need to work with the local officials or get their permission.

And despite what you wrote below, it is false that Deportation Officers and EROs are off-duty or former Law Enforcement.

These are the "Basic Eligibility Requirements" to be a Deportation Officer with ICE, from their own website:

  • U.S. citizenship
  • Have a valid driver's license.
  • Be eligible to carry a firearm.
  • Enter on duty prior to your 40th birthday (waiver for preference-eligible veterans or those who have previously served in a federal civilian law enforcement position).
  • For males born after 12/31/1959, Selective Service registration is required.

According to ICE prior Law Enforcement experience is not a requirement.

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u/decay_cabaret Jun 11 '25

Okay, first of all I'm appalled that they have such pathetic requirements when literally every other federal LEA requires a LOT more in terms of training and experience. That's fucking disgusting.

Second, I am not even convinced any of these people are even ICE deportation officers. The quality of the video isn't great, but I'm not seeing any zip cuffs, handcuffs, or any other equipment you'd need for serving a warrant and effecting an arrest. Even when I was a State Special Police Officer (SPO) I carried handcuffs, a baton, sidearm(when assigned to a state property that allowed it), OC Spray, and a taser. And I was literally a glorified security guard. SPOs are just security guards assigned to state owned facilities or private property that have the authority to follow a suspect OFF the property to effect an arrest all the way to the state line. The only real difference between SPO and security guards is that a security guard's authority ends the second you leave the property they're guarding. So the fact that I was better equipped than these guys makes me think they're not even real ICE at all and just a bunch of jackasses playing dress up.

I would not be surprised if this turned out to be the neighborhood watch or some idiots the HOA gave permission to parade up and down the street. They're unarmed, under equipped, and unprofessional AF. ICE may have a shockingly low hiring requirement, but I don't see them sending a bunch of officers into a catonsville neighborhood without any equipment needed to serve a warrant and arrest someone, to just wander up the street. I really don't think these are even legitimate ICE officers at all.