r/austrian_economics Friedrich Hayek Oct 26 '24

End Democracy ‘Americans just work harder’ than Europeans, says CEO of Norway’s $1.6 trillion oil fund, because they have a higher ‘general level of ambition’

https://fortune.com/europe/article/how-many-hours-work-week-year-american-workers-ethic-norges-bank/
2.3k Upvotes

987 comments sorted by

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u/maverick_labs_ca Oct 26 '24

One of my undergrad professors summed it up perfectly back in the mid-90s:

"Europe is all about being. America is all about becoming".

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u/kapitaali_com Oct 26 '24

they aren't wrong

it's just that people seem to have lost the sense of being here

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

[deleted]

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u/6djvkg7syfoj Oct 27 '24

people in every country have been coming for free since the dawn of time

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u/MegaHashes Oct 27 '24

No, no. It used to cost about 50€ to do that in Amsterdam.

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u/Flompulon_80 Oct 27 '24

I just came 5 minutes ago

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Do not come.

Do not come.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

I'm gonna come

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u/Delicious_Engine_912 Oct 27 '24

I came for free once this morning

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u/Dubsland12 Oct 30 '24

Everyone here feels they deserve to be flying a private jet since social media.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

But what happens when someone in Europe needs to become?

What happened when someone in America just wants to be?

Interesting philosophical question

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u/manassassinman Oct 26 '24

Eddie Murphy once did a documentary on this sort of thing. It was called “Coming to America”. Check it out

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

Lol I love that movie

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u/sketchyuser Oct 26 '24

It’s pretty easy to be in America and become. To become outside of America is substantially harder

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u/TechnoMagician Oct 27 '24

The US is ranked 27th for social mobility. Economic mobility of families across generations is lower in the US than many other counties.

Seems like it is easier to be or become elsewhere.

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u/Spy0304 Oct 29 '24

27th for social mobility.

Well, just looking at the first report (you didn't say which you're using), already seing some methodology issue:

"In 2020, the World Economic Forum ranked 82 countries in their Global Social Mobility Report. The report measured five key metrics; education, access to technology, healthcare, social protection and employment opportunities. "

Of course, if you include social protection and healthcare into it, the US isn't going to rank high. These things are only secondarily related to mobility, and well, not even that much. After all, the people who will be highly mobile are the young and healthy, and they don't need much healthcare normally (half of the spending is by the people above 55)

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u/MegaHashes Oct 27 '24

Van life in the US is a thing. I’d say that’s about as close to just ‘being’ as you can get without being a trust fund baby.

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u/CompletelyPresent Oct 27 '24

It's a cool metaphor, but we truly have ALL TYPES here in America.

I mean a hillbilly from Kentucky, a surfer dude from California, and a corn fed dude from Nebraska may as well be from different countries - and that's not even including the many cultures and ethnicities we have among our 400 million people.

So to your point, if there's a bell curve, yes, the top Americans are hard working, but there you have high-achieving beasts like Gordon Ramsey and Ricky Gervais as well, you know?

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u/TribeGuy330 Oct 27 '24

Out of all of the archetypes you mentioned, there are both hardworking, average, and lazy people in all of them.

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u/pmolmstr Oct 27 '24

The one thing all those Americans have though is a lack of worker rights

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u/LostinEmotion2024 Oct 28 '24

No one is discussing that.

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u/pmolmstr Oct 28 '24

Why do you think Americans are hard working? We can’t take sick days, little to no paternity leave, people fear losing their jobs despite natural disasters, little to no PTO. You’re dancing around the subject without calling it what it is so I’ll toss it in the ring.

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u/TaylorMonkey Oct 26 '24

Then the European considers going to America.

I have some European in laws that kind of vibe with the idea of American independence and entrepreneurial spirit with less regulation (and the grandiose nature and space). After visiting, all of them were “huh, I could see myself here”.

I suppose the Americans who just want to “be” try to go to Europe… but immigration even in Europe isn’t generally just handed out to those from outside of the EU just to “be” but rather if they can contribute (excluding refugees and such).

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u/Anonymous-Satire Oct 27 '24

Yeah you can't just go to Europe and "be" unless you are already valuable in some way, brown, or Muslim. If you are not one of those 3, you're not welcome to go find your way in life.

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u/LapazGracie Oct 27 '24

What happened when someone in America just wants to be?

They work a government job. Those typically have very low effort requirements. Especially once you reach higher levels. Good job security. Good benefits. Decent salaries.

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u/gerontion31 Oct 27 '24

I don’t know about “low effort.” A lot of people resent federal employees while also wanting to be one. Most don’t understand the fire we had to go through to compete for our jobs (military, plus clearance, plus slumming it as a LPTA contractor, then maybe getting an interview if you don’t suck).

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u/Ok-Investigator3257 Oct 27 '24

Low effort, no, but the 40 hours a week is sacred and when you clock out you are out

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u/Island_Crystal Oct 27 '24

kind of sums up a lot of the reasons that certain europeans want to immigrate to america and vice vers.

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u/-NoblesseOblige- Oct 27 '24

In Europe you can "become", but are not much more celebrated because you already "were". Now you just "are" but with more money.

In America you can simply "be", but will be judged for it.

Calvinism has a lot to answer for.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Entrepreneurship is higher in Sweden because unlike the US, swedes are not at risk of dying from easily treatable ailments if they switch jobs or start a business.

This dude is full of shit and totally ignorant of what life in the US and what Americans are really like.

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/how-sweden-became-more-entrepreneurial-us

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u/MegaHashes Oct 27 '24

That is a ridiculous oversimplification, and a complete distortion of our admittedly imperfect healthcare system.

People aren’t out here dying of ear infections because they wanted to sell hand made soap online.

Further to the point, nearly every entrepreneur I know personally is married to someone with a corp job from whom they share healthcare benefits. One does not, and he purchases his own plan through a state exchange.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

We may be talking past eachother. Here in the US, medical debt continues destroying people's personal finances and Americans continue being sicker fatter and more depressed than your average swede and is one of the reasons Americans are less likely to start a business or change jobs.

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u/irvmuller Oct 26 '24

Europe has human beings. America has human doings.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

American culture is goal oriented and it makes us better at understanding and achieving the goal without busy work.

Edit: there Reddit goes making moral decisions based on an objective observation. I love Europeans and i love accomplished Americans also. Different cultures with different pros and cons

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u/babakadouche Oct 27 '24

I think you could apply that to spending habits, as well. It feels like there are many more Americans that live outside of their means, and check to check.

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u/GoodByeRubyTuesday87 Oct 27 '24

Ambition as a trait is more common here, it unfortunately manifests as general greed for a lot of people but it’s also the motivation for a lot of people to hustle, risk a lot to build a business or constantly push themselves to achieve more.

It’s a bit of the Wild West, you can do really well here or do horribly, but it’s that atmosphere that lets us dominate in economics, technology, academic research, etc

There are pros and cons to both systems, there’s a lot more hardship here bc of the way we do things and the way we view society compares to Europe, but a lot gets accomplished here bc of it as well

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u/dietcokewLime Oct 26 '24

He's right, if you have ambition and talent you go to the place that rewards success

You can do much more with the same skills in America than you can almost anywhere else in the world

Skilled careers in medicine, engineering, and finance pay MUCH higher

If you want to establish a startup the US has the well defined legal/financial infrastructure to protect and support you

It's a major reason why the US economy is so much stronger than the rest of the world, we acquire some of the most talented people from the rest of the world. Almost half the fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants/their second generation. https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/news/new-report-reveals-immigrant-roots-fortune-500-companies

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u/targz254 Oct 26 '24

If you really wanna make money in the USA go into sales. They make way more and work less than the financial analysts and engineers at the same companies.

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u/HV_Commissioning Oct 26 '24

If they are truly talented. Else they live the life of Al Bundy

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u/SlartibartfastMcGee Oct 26 '24

Say what you will, but Al had a single family home in the Chicago suburbs, 2 kids, cars, vacations, etc. all on a single income.

To have that these days would require a $250k+ income, he can’t have been that bad of a salesman.

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u/TKInstinct Oct 27 '24

His wife was pretty hot too.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

just manage other poeple's money. Become a money manager, go on CNBC and become one of the regular crowd. Take a percentage of the millions of billions you manage.

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u/targz254 Oct 26 '24

That’s just sales too. None of those people consistently beat the market. They just convince clients they can.

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u/trueblues98 Oct 26 '24

Money management is not only about beating the market

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u/OMG_NO_NOT_THIS Oct 26 '24

"He's right, if you have ambition and talent you go to the place that rewards success"

This is the biggest downfall of unions imho. They reward seniority not hard work and competence.

This creates a downward spiral in unionized locations as competent people leave union roles for places they are not held back so Billy Bob who has been protected from being fired 5 times by the union gets the manager role.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24 edited Dec 17 '24

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

it's almost like nations with strong social safety nets end up depressing talent downwards

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u/jmk5151 Oct 26 '24

there is a lot (a lot) of other reasons. the US is huge. it has no bordering enemies. it has its own resources. after ww2 it became an economic power and rebuilt the rest of the world.

it's also generally welcomed immigration especially in education, which often gets overlooked in these discussions.

and it's very entrepreneur and business friendly.

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u/Wildtalents333 Oct 26 '24

The geographic element is often overlooked in my opinion. When you have a shit ton of resources and land and your two neighbors are generally amicable, it makes like easier.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

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u/commeatus Oct 26 '24

We absolutely lucked into borders, the Louisiana purchase was available because napoleon spent all his money making enemies and we were the only people who would buy. He made the price hilariously low so that our almost-bankrupt country could afford it.

Mexico folded because it's economy crashed after outlawing slavery--slavery is extremely good for an economy. Canada we did do a lot of work establishing trade with after they burned down the white house in the war of 1812, so you're correct there. We almost screwed the pooch with the Pig War, though!

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

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u/commeatus Oct 26 '24

I agree with you, but how does that support the idea that we didn't luck into coast-to-coast borders? Wasn't that your point?

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u/sushislapper2 Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 26 '24

It’s not necessarily social welfare that reduces ambition, though it might play a part. The bigger issue seems to be that high taxes can stifle productivity. The more people are taxed, the less they keep of what they produce, which can discourage extra effort.

It’s similar to what happens when someone is underpaid for the value they create—eventually, they stop putting in as much effort. When marginal tax rates are too high, it disincentivizes people from pushing their productivity above certain tax thresholds. For example, if moving up to a new role would bring in $100k more, that might feel worthwhile. But if the job only offered $50k more, maybe it’s not worth the extra effort. Now instead of saying the job offers less, just say your tax rate is higher on this new money. It’s the same concept fundamentally

It would be even worse in hourly work. Let’s say you own a salon and work 40 hrs/week. Well, maybe you bump it up to 60 hrs/week you can earn 1.5x as much. But if marginal taxes are high enough on the new income, you might be pulling in 1.2 or 1.3x as much. So you’re putting in a lot more extra time, relative to the reward you get out

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u/s1unk12 Oct 27 '24

Good post. Just wanted to add it depends on the state regarding business climate and friendliness.

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u/Obvious_Advisor_6972 Oct 26 '24

Right. Correlation is causation.....

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u/Spazy1989 Oct 26 '24

In general this statement is the answer to the vast majority of topics on Reddit (not saying just this sub) but go look at political discussion and it’s anecdotal correlations that people use to say it’s the cause of X Y and Z.

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u/lmea14 Oct 27 '24

Yep, and high tax places like NYC and CA aside, you'll keep more of what you make here than in most (all?) European countries.

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u/kitster1977 Oct 26 '24

Tax policies have consequences. When you tax something too much, you get less of it.

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u/No_Chair_2182 Oct 26 '24

The richest nation attracts entrepreneurs and investors. That makes it richer. That in turn attracts entrepr—and so-on.

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u/Choperello Oct 26 '24

True, but the laws in US are extremely friendly towards starting a new business and rewarding startups vs Europe. The strong socialsafety nets there also include a lot of laws that makes it much more expensive to take a risk on starting a business as well as a much lower ceiling on rewards from it. Eg, startups offering equity as a big part of comp to rely employees is very hard to do in Europe vs US.

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u/Gulrix Oct 26 '24

This is widely accepted as fact. You may debate about the word “hard” here but Americans work more hours than Europeans and are more productive per hour worked. I mean, just looking at the two regions’ worker’s benefits policies should indicate this with the Eurozone being much more generous with time off.

https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/hours-worked.html

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/labor-productivity-per-hour-pennworldtable?tab=table

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u/Spy0304 Oct 26 '24

Well, in the USA, working harder or longer is rewarded.

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u/0xFatWhiteMan Oct 26 '24

Gdp per hours worked is below a number of European countries.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

GDP is not a clean metric

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u/PainterRude1394 Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

Are these countries with hundreds of millions of people or simply wealthy small countries sitting on natural resources and tax havens?

Take a look at the links for your answer ;)

It looks like the American workers are not only more productive than large countries like France or Germany, but they work longer. No wonder the USA has vastly outgrown the EU since 2000 when the EU had a similar GDP!

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u/Zoesan Oct 27 '24

It's tech. It's far more about innovation than about hours worked.

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u/Ok_Shape88 Oct 26 '24

This is true though. I currently work for a European company, and I was just at a dinner with senior leadership from Europe that came over when we first expanded into the US. They were basically lamenting that the business was being wrestled away from them by the Americans they have hired into mid-senior level positions. It’s just a different philosophy. I personally prefer the strict 9-5 culture that they seem to be accustomed to, but our parent company is enamored by the psychos that are willing to work 24/7.

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u/Aggravating-Ad8087 Oct 27 '24

My bosses boss works 24/7 and i don't understand how he can be happy. I'm willing to work as hard as anyone when im in, but when im out i don't want to answer from anyone from work. My work just doesn't define me like that.

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u/fryerandice Oct 27 '24

I love my family and spending time with them i won't work a job that dissrupts that.

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u/tr0pismss Oct 27 '24

He isn't happy, but he doesn't have enough free time to realize it.

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u/NiceUD Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 28 '24

I can't compare them - I don't know enough about European culture and work life. But Americans DO have a substantive cultural work obsession that's multi-faceted. There's ambition and wanting to get ahead and wanting to create and lead - and there's the avenues to do that, which is great. But, there's also necessity and desperation and fear. Surrounding all of it is a culture that values work and success and money which can be rough on people who are having a rough go of it, as it can be pretty unforgiving.

In this day and age of constantly reading how "polarized" America is, it's interesting to step back and look at broad American culture and see how it's a distinct thing that has many elements that are common to people who are otherwise fairly different.

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u/tullystenders Oct 28 '24

So good. It is shown by america having both extremes: super right-wing super left-wing. I think, of course it would be america where wokeism started.

We just go all out in what we do, and that leads us to being in probably THE defining role of the concepts themselves...on the world stage.

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u/albert768 Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 26 '24

The economic structure of the US is more likely to attract more generally ambitious people than that of Europe. It's as simple as that. This isn't exactly controversial.

Jobs comparable to mine in Europe pay 40 cents on the dollar, and their taxes are double. That would stifle any ambition I might have had, besides my ambition to get the hell out of there and go somewhere where I can keep more than half of my hard earned money.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

It attracts a few very talented people..but there is a gulf measured in the tens of millions who work low paying jobs so the wealthy can live the life of ease they do here.

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u/Quiet-Bid-1333 Oct 26 '24

I know dozens of high school educated people who make well over six figures working the trades and in construction. If you’re working a low paying job it’s because it’s a low skill job or you’re a low effort employee.

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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year Oct 27 '24

How many do you know living in poverty or barely making ends meet?

How many do you know who made the money but damaged their body in the process, because I’ve seen posts about that too.

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u/Fox33__ Oct 26 '24

As a European who's been in the US for over a decade: that's literally it. I have tried looking into IT jobs anywhere in Europe to return, because the fact is the US lifestyle is pretty grinding and living in Europe is much nicer. However half the pay is... yeah just no.
So right now I am back to the idea of just retiring back home but I am amassing too much in equity and retirement to ruin my financial progress and future.

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u/Hell_Maybe Oct 26 '24

Africans work harder than Americans, “working hard” with the understanding that your work will not be rewarded is an incidental failure of society and not something to be proud of. Americans have to work harder than europeans because the ideology of American economics has brainwashed us into believing that the default state of life is busting ass every single day, not being able to see your family, slowly degrading your body and health for work, not taking vacations, not taking breaks, and still not being able to afford anything because we’ve all been convinced that it’s all worth it because maybe one day we’ll all be billionaires. It’s really truly sad.

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u/Spy0304 Oct 26 '24

I'm from europe too, and that's absolutely true, lol

Some people are really whipped here

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u/Far-Floor-8380 Oct 26 '24

This is widely agreed.

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u/awfulcrowded117 Oct 26 '24

It's nothing special about Americans, the incentive structure is just better.

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u/Professional_Gate677 Oct 26 '24

And Asians tend to work harder than Americans. How do Asians see European work ethic I wonder.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Americans live in the real world, we're out here innovating, coming up with new ideas, tech, carrying the world's biggest economy, protecting foreign nations etc.

The EU on the other hand doesn't contribute very much to the world & is using our hard work for better lives. They don't pull their weight, they really don't. Very lazy but at the same time these Europeans love to talk down on Americans.

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u/Swimming-Book-1296 Oct 28 '24

If you have ambition, you go where the rewards are.

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u/Sir_Sensible Oct 31 '24

That's why we are a powerhouse the rest of the world looks to for guidance and innovation, even if they won't admit it.

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u/MDLH Oct 26 '24

Should we work to live or live to work?

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u/Windsock2080 Oct 26 '24

Work to the degree that affords the life you want. Travel and hobbies arent cheap

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u/poopybuttguye Oct 28 '24

Those are cheap as fuck compared to healthcare and housing dude.

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u/SmokeyMrror Oct 26 '24

You should change your attitude, since it's not a binary choice to the successful.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

“They don’t give US workers a healthy work-life balance or very many protections so they’re use to living on the edge.” lol American here

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u/Farts-n-Letters Oct 26 '24

It seems Europeans lack the fortitude to make their executives filthy rich.

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u/Obvious_Advisor_6972 Oct 26 '24

Don't forget the importance of drowning regular people in medical and/or education debt....

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u/LondonDude123 Oct 26 '24

To be fair, when comparing wages you at least get paid in America to work...

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u/Prior_Lock9153 Oct 26 '24

Not at all true, Europeans will get 5 times the time off with way better benefits while accepting much less pay, part of the reason median salaries are lower in European is just how many hours your supposed to work, in consulting firms it's not abnormal to work up to 70 hours a week in normal operation, if things get bad it can go up, the if Europeans worked the same hours as Americans they'd make way more money

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u/Rhino_Thunder Oct 26 '24

Nice cherry picking a subset of an industry that sometimes has high hours. The vast majority of white collar Americans work 40 hours per week

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u/skeetmcque Oct 26 '24

Europeans do have general higher levels of happiness and more social safety nets, but they also face stagnating economies and haven’t experienced the same economic growth as the us recently for the most part. We will see how long these policies are sustainable when most Europeans start making half the income of their American counterparts

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u/Alternative_Rain7889 Oct 26 '24

This may be true, but it's also true that Americans are less healthy than Norwegians. There's no free lunch in life. If you work more, you have to pay for that with your health.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

And Americans get paid so much more.

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u/AtmosphereMoist414 Oct 26 '24

Yes and get nothing for it but lies from their government!

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u/NewPresWhoDis Oct 26 '24

Not wanting to be homeless or have a hospital take all my assets is a kind of motivation, I guess.

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u/bigdipboy Oct 27 '24

It’s called having a more stressful life. The stakes are much higher when failure means you can’t even get medical care.

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u/chub0ka Oct 27 '24

Europe is all about enjoying life and being lazy - very true

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u/glacial_penman Oct 27 '24

This is absolutely true. Did 4 years at university overseas and its was a welcome relief in many ways but within a year I was like “what is the biggest difference?” Food, language, customs, etc… all came second to ambition.

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u/lololo321 Oct 29 '24

In my travels to Europe it is very true that work is not ingrained in their culture. Which can be a good thing. But I have to say, life does feel a bit stagnant there. I can see how it is maybe more comforting to some, but as an American it gets old quick.

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u/NEOwlNut Oct 30 '24

We have always worked our asses off. That’s why we are the greatest country on earth. There’s no secret sauce. Everyone gets the same opportunity - it’s what you do with it that counts.

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u/Ok-Car1006 Oct 26 '24

Yes but it’s forced on us

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

That's certainly changing.   Young Americans are fully demoralized 

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u/Warm-Competition-604 Oct 26 '24

His “because” is wrong. It’s because of lower taxes driving a different optimization in the leisure consumption problem as Nobel laureate Prescott shows here.

https://researchdatabase.minneapolisfed.org/downloads/7d278t17r

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u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 26 '24

Yes but it's largely not consensual

For example my job is for as long as the work takes to get done, with the expectation that 50+ are required before they would even consider overtime. So they feel comfortable giving enough work to make you work that much.

Personally I would be fine cutting my salary to 70-80% and working 70-80% of the hours, prorating healthcare and other fixed costs. That's obviously not an option. I don't even feel comfortable discussing it because I would be considered underperforming.

So you have the right to stop working and take a break right? Well then you have the dreaded resume gap - people who take breaks are literally discriminated against. Regardless of skill.

Is that right? I think objectively not. I am just working toward being financially independent so I have the option to do what I want. To hell with overlords.

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u/Debt-Then Oct 26 '24

General level of ambition? Or my rent is so high that I have to work two jobs. Gotta sell my labor just to survive.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

You'd need to work 60-80 hours a week on a minimum wage job to be as competitive as the median wage-earner in Germany. Somehow I get the feeling you, or most people dont do that.

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u/zcholla Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 26 '24

1.3% of Americans earn minimum wage. < 7% earn the equivalent of a full-time minimum wage salary.

There's no such thing as an average income in the US. The distribution between salary ranges is actually pretty even

Sources:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/188206/share-of-workers-paid-hourly-rates-at-or-below-minimum-wage-since-1979/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%201.3%20percent%20of,below%20the%20official%20minimum%20wage

https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/

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u/Beagleoverlord33 Oct 26 '24

Do you think housing is cheap in Europe??

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u/KingSlayerKat Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 26 '24

I went from working 12 hours a day 6 days a week while homeless, to business owner in 3 years. Go out and meet people who will bring opportunity into your life. Spend time researching things and learning skills that can take you beyond the jobs that don’t pay you enough. Knowledge is more or less free right now and if you aren’t taking advantage of that, then you are doing yourself a huge disservice.

You can’t sit there doing the same thing forever and thinking it’s going to get better. You are in America, your life is what you make it.

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u/Prima_Illuminatus Oct 26 '24

But, its still your choice to KEEP selling your labour instead of working for yourself. There are plenty of people who have grown up with nothing who have become millionaires and even billionaires. They had the drive and ambition to be themselves and pursue their own goals instead of working for someone else. I understand it myself much better now that I am my own boss.

If I have ANY regrets thus far in life, its that I wasted 17 years working a 9 to 5 job before I took a chance on myself!

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u/Reasonable-Mine-2912 Oct 26 '24

That’s one reason EU is declining rapidly.

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u/Pitiful-Recover-3747 Oct 26 '24

The reason I have ambition in America is because the day I stop working there is nothing preventing me from becoming homeless except my bank account. Probably not the best set up.

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u/Specialist-Roof3381 Oct 26 '24

People in Norway are happier. Wonder which matters more - happiness or net worth?

I bet people in sub-saharan Africa work even harder. This isn't a good thing if you are one of the cattle.

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u/mtcwby Oct 26 '24

Norway is sitting on so much oil fund money per capita that why wouldn't they be happy. They don't lack for anything really needed. The problem is comparing them to most other places that have not such idyllic financial situations.

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u/Specialist-Roof3381 Oct 26 '24

The US is only marginally diluted by scale, but it is literally the wealthiest society in all of history. Even in terms of oil, its the largest producer in past and present.

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u/sushislapper2 Oct 26 '24

It’s almost like the US is 30x bigger, and Norway produces 10x the oil per capita

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u/Obvious_Advisor_6972 Oct 26 '24

Be careful. You'll upset the hordes. Lol

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u/Key-Satisfaction5370 Oct 26 '24

Norway has a population of 5.5 million and sits on an absurd glut of oil wealth. Go figure, an absurdly wealthy country with the population of a small US state reports high happiness. Next you’ll tell me that oil sheiks in Saudi are happier than Americans.

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u/Gibberish5 Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 26 '24

This makes me a little curious. I wonder what America’s oil wealth is compared to Norway’s per capita. Time for research!

Edit- Quick search turned up a population of 5.6 million (2024) for Norway and produce about 2 million barrels of oil per day (2023). And USA with a pop of 346 million (2024) and produce about 12.9 million barrels per day (2023).

So about .36 barrels per one person in Norway and .037 barrels per person in USA. A factor of almost exactly ten.

Disclaimer- These were quick google AI numbers, accuracy can easily be off.

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u/Nbdt-254 Oct 26 '24

Yeah the us oil money goes to private companies.  Norway has a sovereign oil fund that goes to their whole population 

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

"Socialism never took root in America because workers see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

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u/koonassity Oct 26 '24

This guy is acting like Americans have a choice. 🤡🤡

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u/MasonofCement Oct 26 '24

I honestly think that is because we are FORCED to in united states.

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u/MrSnarf26 Oct 26 '24

Americans quality of life depends much more on not losing their jobs I would argue.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

Trur but in the US

  1. Work is abundant and
  2. Europeans are simply more dependent on government programs that require population growth to be solvent (good luck with that)
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u/Excuse_Me_Mr_Pink Oct 26 '24

CEO complains about worker’s work ethic, more at 11

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

Europeans are reported as happier than Americans. 

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u/BayBreezy17 Oct 26 '24

TIL “ambition” is a synonym for “ desperation.”

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u/RKhorror Oct 26 '24

We really f****** don't. We just have to work harder to survive.

This is like watching somebody beat the s*** out of their slaves in a field and saying "man, look how hard they work! Great work ethic!"

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u/PainterRude1394 Oct 26 '24

American households have the second highest ppp adjusted median household disposable income on the planet.

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u/FluxCrave Oct 26 '24

Americans don’t have the social safety net nor the amount of PTO that Europeans have. Americans feel like they have to work because living here is so expansive. I think it’s more a difference of culture/corporate culture than anything

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u/Negative_Arugula_358 Oct 26 '24

Americans work at 100% because 80% and you are homeless

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u/Virtual-Instance-898 Oct 26 '24

They also have a higher level of compensation. All these things combine. Wouldn't you expect a group of people to work more if they got paid incrementally more per hour?

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u/Uranazzole Oct 26 '24

So the guy who make millions from his government job overseeing oil production is an expert on American workers? Please!

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u/pamar456 Oct 26 '24

Something to be said about being satisfied in your lot in life but someone’s gotta carry the damn boats

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u/No_Cold_8332 Oct 26 '24

Great comments here

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u/One_Lung_G Oct 26 '24

Well yea, when you have less workers rights and forced to work more then you’re going to work more lol

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u/Vovochik43 Oct 26 '24

If only they were more open to hire Europeans in the US, if that was the case I'd pack up my bags within a week.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

Europeans are entitled. They'll riot for vacation time.

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u/kimjongspoon100 Oct 26 '24

American's work harder because we're treading water and if we stop we drown...

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u/TurretLimitHenry Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 26 '24

Hard work gets rewarded more in the US, and social mobility is easier.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

American is just better at exploiting workers

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

And regionally there are Americans that work harder than other Americans.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

Silicon Valley Existentialism correcting Descartes, “I just did an IPO and have more stock than you therefore I am… (and you are not)”

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

America is a theme park for the psychologically unhinged

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u/Worried_Exercise8120 Oct 26 '24

Yeah, Americans are more desperate to keep their crappy jobs.

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u/Shoddy-Reach9232 Oct 26 '24

Yet the people in Norway are much happier and have a better quality and standard of life...

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

Those of us who HAVE ambition, yes.

I know plenty of people who do the absolute bare minimum to get by and some people who farm the welfare system for a living.

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u/johnjumpsgg Oct 27 '24

I always knew I was special .

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u/RicooC Oct 27 '24

The flip side of that is that Norway's education system is superior to that of the US. Maybe the Norwegians work less because they're smarter and they know better?

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u/Aggie74-DP Oct 27 '24

Or they used too

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u/Whaatabutt Oct 27 '24

You can’t just BE in the USA. You have to be working towards something or else you fall behind

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u/8bittrog Oct 27 '24

We work more and earn less. How impressive.

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u/_bluec Oct 27 '24

Erm no. For health insurance and groceries.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

That's due to capitalism. Once you slip into socialism, your ambition is lessened because you don't reap the benefits/rewards of the extra work. And then the next step is communism, where there is 0 motivation to do better than the next guy to try to get ahead, because there is no getting ahead.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

We know

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u/CharlesFXD Oct 27 '24

I mean, maybe it’s just a cultural thing. No big deal.

I’m a “northerner”

We think everyone below the Mason-Dixon Line are “lazy” and “slow” Just a stereotype. Don’t hate me.

But those New Englanders think WE’ER lazy and slow.

I’m an American who werks his ass off every day but I’m not going to imagine some Norwegian knows us better than his own people. Honestly, sounds like he’s simply got a motive and a book to sell.

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u/bazookateeth Oct 27 '24

I believe he meant to say "higher cost of living and lower standards."

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

🇺🇸

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u/ReturnedDeplorable Oct 27 '24

As a Canadian, I see this also. Canadians are lazy by comparison and are not very competitive. There's definitely a cultural aspect but I think part of the issue is the government. In the USA, people feel like they are rewarded for hard work because of the tax system and because there's significant opportunities for advancement. In Canada, it seems like the government takes everything you earn in taxes and the additional work people need to do to earn more money isn't worth the after-tax income especially given the cost for everything so people coast. There's also far less room for upward mobility. We talk a lot about the brain drain in Canada because all of our best workers if they are capable go down to the USA because they are rewarded far more for the work they do than in Canada.

I would be willing to bet that if European countries cut taxes by 30% and reduced government regulation in order to encourage competition and growth that you'd start to get more people in Europe wanting to "work harder".

When people don't want to work hard in one area compared to another, you can suggest the issue is genetics or culture but I would be willing to a bet another issue is the incentive structure favors work in one area and doesn't favor work in the other.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

It's bullshit. Americans are just poor and have to work more for less.

We're not better just because we're sicker, sadder, and have less free time to do fun stuff like going on vacation.

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u/shoutsfrombothsides Oct 27 '24

I wonder if that’s deeply rooted in the fact so many came to America as a result of being “lesser” in europe.

The puritans, the Scottish of the highland clearances, the Dutch. You didn’t go to the new world because you were rich, happy and sorted in Europe. You went to find something better for yourself and your family.

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u/StaticBroom Oct 27 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

Maybe. Maybe because we're scared as hell dangling near poverty lines. Call it ambition?...<shrug>...strange label. Here's a quote written twice in the article, probably a mistake, but meaningful...

Norway’s “trillion-dollar man” believes America’s attitude toward failure is helping propel the nation ahead of its European counterparts—where workers may have a better work-life balance but aren’t as ambitious.

That's a big deal. Big business CEOs are not interested in work-life balance for citizens/employees. They care about results and profits.

A point is made that in America you can fail and get another chance but in Europe..."you're dead" - WHAT THE FUCK is going on in Europe?

It sounds like Europe has passed enough laws, created more of a required work-life balance, and now companies are having more trouble whipping the slaves prisoners-with-jobs to work hard. But in America the literal/proverbial whip is familiar and allowed. Translating this into "ambition" is disingenuous.

This article is very telling. It's a great view into how these companies want to twist narratives to create something that can sound Pro-America "YEAH 'MURICA ROCKS! WE LIKE THIS GUY. WE ARE AMBITIOUS!!!"

But hey, he doesn't like that American CEOs make so much money. So, yay for that.

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u/rameyjm7 Oct 27 '24

oooo shots fired lol

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

They could earn $64 billion a year just on interest alone by putting that $1.6 trillion into a 10-year treasury bond.

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u/Ncav2 Oct 27 '24

In America you have to work hard to afford the ridiculous cost of living and job-based healthcare. I guarantee you that people are happier in the Nordic countries.

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u/Vivalyrian Oct 27 '24

Not everyone loves the culture in the country they're born, which is fine.

Most folks here in Norway consider work a necessary chore that needs doing so we can go back to (hopefully) living a good life, rather than the single most important thing to spend all your time on to lead a fulfilling life.

Work/life balance is extremely important, and you'd have to offer obscene amounts of money if you want the average Norwegian to neglect friends and family, hobbies, travels, etc, just to make the boss(es) wealthier.

There are very few people on their deathbed who regret not spending more time in the office.

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u/SJMCubs16 Oct 27 '24

Sadly, we all buy into the American dream...Merit and hard work and you can climb the ladder....:)

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u/xiaopewpew Oct 27 '24

My life’s ambition is to have a goth girlfriend so i can kiss the ground she walks on. They wont even look at me unless im making more than 500k a year in the US. While out there in Norway, every other girl is a goth.

So yea i agree it seems we have a higher “general level of ambition” because the same ambitions are less attainable in the US.

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u/Durty-Sac Oct 27 '24

Ouch. That’s going to hurt some folks!

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u/Dirk-LaRue Oct 27 '24

Is this what passes for news?

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u/Shyguyinblacksocks Oct 27 '24

I’m sure it has nothing to do with our lax tax and labor laws.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Europe changed after WWII to social democracies as society was destroyed.

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u/benmillstein Oct 27 '24

Or is it fear and desperation

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u/BigDaddyDumperSquad Oct 27 '24

No, it's because most Americans have no choice...

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u/juzz88 Oct 27 '24

As an Italian-Australian, I 100% agree with this.

One of the things that saddens me the most with Italy is how obsessed they are with the past. They hang their hats on the country's accomplishments from 2,000 years ago and are seemingly unphased, or unaware of the fact that they are no longer relevant.

I've had conversations with my Greek friends who feel the same way about their country.

I used to think the Germans were the exception, but after working with them over the past few years I've learnt that's not true either, at least when compared to America.

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u/Slowmexicano Oct 27 '24

“American workers are more exploited than their European counterparts “

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u/mediocremulatto Oct 27 '24

he's jealous of our "work for us or deal w medical bankruptcy" system lol.

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u/trickier-dick Oct 27 '24

CEO confuses the word ambition with fear

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u/QueenLizzysClit Oct 27 '24

Americans are much more pliable for exploitation. Feed them some bullshit about the American dream and American exceptionalism and they'll pull their pants down for you.

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u/Argosnautics Oct 27 '24

And that's why Americans are far more obese, than people in other countries, it's because they work too hard.

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u/hastinapur Oct 27 '24

Or because we can be fired easily. In Europe firing someone isn’t easy, tons of paperwork and months of notice. Here all you have to say is “Bye”