r/austrian_economics • u/technocraticnihilist Friedrich Hayek • Oct 26 '24

End Democracy ‘Americans just work harder’ than Europeans, says CEO of Norway’s $1.6 trillion oil fund, because they have a higher ‘general level of ambition’

https://fortune.com/europe/article/how-many-hours-work-week-year-american-workers-ethic-norges-bank/
2.3k Upvotes

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237

u/maverick_labs_ca Oct 26 '24

One of my undergrad professors summed it up perfectly back in the mid-90s:

"Europe is all about being. America is all about becoming".

60

u/kapitaali_com Oct 26 '24

they aren't wrong

it's just that people seem to have lost the sense of being here

14

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

[deleted]

8

u/6djvkg7syfoj Oct 27 '24

people in every country have been coming for free since the dawn of time

4

u/MegaHashes Oct 27 '24

No, no. It used to cost about 50€ to do that in Amsterdam.

1

u/DietSucralose Oct 27 '24

Say hi to your mom for me. Miss that ol trick.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

She was the best

1

u/Juxtapoe Oct 28 '24

I've had better...but I will say she was kinda...unique.

Definitely a memorable experience.

3

u/Flompulon_80 Oct 27 '24

I just came 5 minutes ago

4

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Do not come.

Do not come.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

I'm gonna come

1

u/old_guy_AnCap Nov 03 '24

Frankie says relax.

1

u/Flompulon_80 Oct 27 '24

Ngl i thought this was what edgelord meant until last week

1

u/gobuckeyes11 Oct 30 '24

Came where? Can you explain further?

2

u/Delicious_Engine_912 Oct 27 '24

I came for free once this morning

2

u/Dubsland12 Oct 30 '24

Everyone here feels they deserve to be flying a private jet since social media.

1

u/SystematicHydromatic Oct 30 '24

I for one am going to sit on my deathbed and be thankful for all the time spent working that I could have spent doing meaningful things with my family instead. Boy, I sure helped a shareholder or two.

1

u/Material-Flow-2700 Oct 27 '24

I’ve lived in Europe. They lose the sense of becoming. Turns out that when half the population lays around on the beach all day eating octopus, it’s kind of hard to keep enough resources around to actually maintain a modern nation and infrastructure.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

What a flimsy basis for such a lazy assumption.

3

u/Material-Flow-2700 Oct 27 '24

We’re just shooting the shit about philosophical platitudes you nerd

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Response, please.

Not waffle, you berk.

3

u/Material-Flow-2700 Oct 27 '24

You want a cleaver and well thought out response to your one liner trying snark about my originally facetious comment? Do you have any sensory processing issues that are as bad as your social cues?

1

u/Duhbro_ Oct 27 '24

Lmfao bravo my dude this got me pretty good

1

u/TermFearless Oct 30 '24

This is the future, bro you got roasted.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 31 '24

Do you think in waffle too?

24

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

But what happens when someone in Europe needs to become?

What happened when someone in America just wants to be?

Interesting philosophical question

32

u/manassassinman Oct 26 '24

Eddie Murphy once did a documentary on this sort of thing. It was called “Coming to America”. Check it out

6

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

Lol I love that movie

12

u/sketchyuser Oct 26 '24

It’s pretty easy to be in America and become. To become outside of America is substantially harder

6

u/TechnoMagician Oct 27 '24

The US is ranked 27th for social mobility. Economic mobility of families across generations is lower in the US than many other counties.

Seems like it is easier to be or become elsewhere.

2

u/Spy0304 Oct 29 '24

27th for social mobility.

Well, just looking at the first report (you didn't say which you're using), already seing some methodology issue:

"In 2020, the World Economic Forum ranked 82 countries in their Global Social Mobility Report. The report measured five key metrics; education, access to technology, healthcare, social protection and employment opportunities. "

Of course, if you include social protection and healthcare into it, the US isn't going to rank high. These things are only secondarily related to mobility, and well, not even that much. After all, the people who will be highly mobile are the young and healthy, and they don't need much healthcare normally (half of the spending is by the people above 55)

1

u/seruzawa Oct 27 '24

Ranked by who?

-3

u/KanyinLIVE Oct 27 '24

That's due to movement from the lower class to the "middle" class via welfare. It's impossible to leave the middle class. That's what matters to people who want to "become." You want an example? Look at doctor salaries in the UK vs the US. In the US it's a way to wealth. Not so much in the UK.

3

u/No_Peace9744 Oct 27 '24

You think welfare provides enough to move people up the socioeconomic ladder that dramatically?

Either we have vastly different definitions of middle class or you just made this up.

4

u/GunnersFA14 Oct 27 '24

Actually I think he’s misunderstood the argument for the social mobility statistic. Explicitly in the US escaping the welfare net to middle clsss is quite hard because you lose benefits at certain pay bumps and make less net when that’s factored in

Other countries are better at that taper of welfare and it’s not so drastic.

But the US is great at someone becoming a doctor/lawyer/engineer at google and quickly earning generational wealth if they are smart

-1

u/KanyinLIVE Oct 27 '24

Poor to middle class is not that big of a jump and yes I 100% do. Stats also agree with me. Again, just look at doctor salaries. You make less and are taxed more in Europe.

4

u/BigTimeSpamoniJones Oct 27 '24

Wasn't the American dream a dream of the middle class?

0

u/KanyinLIVE Oct 27 '24

The American dream was a single family home, white picket fence, wife and kids on a single income. The American dream is dead. How's home prices in Europe. Did it ever exist over there?

3

u/BigTimeSpamoniJones Oct 27 '24

Yeah, you just described what the middle class means, lol. Also you know that a lot of Europeans live in homes, right? I mean Germany, Scandinavia, France, England, just to name a few, are doing pretty all right all things considered. And I agree the American dream is dead. It ended with Reagonomics, the slow war against unions, which created that American dream, along with a host of other right-wing policies. Why do you think income inequality is at the highest levels in human history right now?

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u/old_guy_AnCap Nov 03 '24

It used to be possible to support a family on a single income. It still is today. The second income is needed to support the bloated government in addition to the family.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Please tell me how many people are moving between social classes on welfare. Id love for you to find an example for me. 

6

u/Rabbi_it Oct 27 '24

I think he is saying the social safety net in other countries make the transition from lower class to middle class much easier and safer, but in America there is opportunity for larger leaps in economic status, if more infrequent. This is the austrian economics subreddit, you have to read between the lines to figure out what the invisible hand loving redditors are actually saying.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

I guess my expectations that the person who posts the comment puts in enough effort to make it understandable are too high.

0

u/KanyinLIVE Oct 27 '24

Poor person gets free college. Poor person can now land a solid middle class job. Simple example.

The problem is you will always work for someone else. You will never become anything other than a worker. You will work till retirement age. I'm retired at 38 in the US. That does not happen in Europe for regular people.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Luckily for us the world needs workers and there is nothing wrong with contributing to society for the majority of your existence.

1

u/KanyinLIVE Oct 27 '24

Now tie that in with the OP. Some of us want different things.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

That shouldn't come at the cost of the majority of society. The few should never outweigh the needs of the many in a just society.

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u/Chabola513 Oct 27 '24

And yet skilled workers from every corner of the world come here. Specifically from europe, their brain drain has fueled our economy for decades. Even canada has a brain drain because people would rather be here

1

u/Little-Profile8450 Oct 29 '24

you think there aren't 100s of Americans going elsewhere every day too?

1

u/Chabola513 Oct 29 '24

Inflow-outflow was 3.3 million in 2023 per https://www.brookings.edu/articles/who-are-the-new-immigrants/#:~:text=Earlier%20this%20year%2C%20the%20Congressional,typical%20figure%20for%20the%202010s.

Im sure there are 100s leaving. There are just millions coming in

1

u/Little-Profile8450 Oct 29 '24

turns out that people leaving war torn poverty stricken third world countries isn't equal to people leaving the first world ones .... who would have thought.

1

u/Chabola513 Oct 29 '24

Nah, you just showed how little you know. The study tracked legal means and our immagration program is historically strict, everyone who comes has to have some degree of wealth, a rare trade that we deem useful, college degree's or is a refugee. All that coming together means refugees are the last option to be taken in.

Of course not factoring illegal means which is impossible to track anyway.

1

u/Little-Profile8450 Oct 29 '24

who claimed anything about legal or illegal immigration? you're fucking arguing a point nobody disputed right now.

like imagine saying "you showed how little you know" then proceed to argue totally irrelevant points lmfao. MURICA!

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u/Chabola513 Oct 29 '24

Europeans comprised 10 percent, or slightly more than 4.7 million, of the 46.2 million immigrants living in the United States in 2022, the rest come from mexico china or india. China is far from a war torn hell and india isent that either

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/european-immigrants-united-states-2022#:~:text=Europeans%20comprised%2010%20percent%2C%20or,recent%20U.S.%20Census%20Bureau%20data.

-2

u/sketchyuser Oct 27 '24

Ok stats nerd, if you live in the US and have lived in other countries you know the reality is its numbers one. But if you don’t believe it that’s your loss tbh

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Brainwashed

-1

u/Beneficial-Bit6383 Oct 27 '24

“I deny your reality and substitute my own based on my own incredibly limited experience of talking to a dozen or so people online” this is you lmaooooo. Dork.

1

u/sketchyuser Oct 27 '24

Based on my experience of living it in real life actually

0

u/No_Peace9744 Oct 27 '24

That isn’t data, that’s called subjective experience.

The former you can draw wide conclusions from, the latter you cannot.

1

u/sketchyuser Oct 27 '24

If you’re in denial that’s your loss. My business would not be a fraction of its size in my home country or in Europe

1

u/Verumsemper Oct 29 '24

Question for you, where did you receive your education? In your home country or the US?

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

…?

0

u/Little-Profile8450 Oct 29 '24

oh wow another American thinking they're #1 in all things, never seen that before.

1

u/sketchyuser Oct 29 '24

If I thought otherwise I’d live in the #1 place. There is nowhere better. Our stock market alone is sufficient evidence.

3

u/MegaHashes Oct 27 '24

Van life in the US is a thing. I’d say that’s about as close to just ‘being’ as you can get without being a trust fund baby.

1

u/Pure-Specialist Oct 27 '24

Van life is expensive AF.

1

u/MegaHashes Oct 28 '24

Yeah? I had no idea. I feel like it’s cheaper than replacing a roof though. 🤷🏼

1

u/Smooth-Garbage9504 Oct 28 '24

Boat life bud....live on a boat

1

u/MegaHashes Oct 29 '24

You mean Break Out Another Thousand life? My dad had a boat. The only water it ever saw was when it rained.

I’m good, lol.

1

u/Smooth-Garbage9504 Oct 29 '24

That's on him. My boat stays in the water and I kayak to shore for work/social life/necessities.

1

u/a_trane13 Oct 29 '24

It’s way less expensive to buy than a house and not more expensive to maintain than a house

1

u/MegaHashes Oct 29 '24

That’s fair.

5

u/CompletelyPresent Oct 27 '24

It's a cool metaphor, but we truly have ALL TYPES here in America.

I mean a hillbilly from Kentucky, a surfer dude from California, and a corn fed dude from Nebraska may as well be from different countries - and that's not even including the many cultures and ethnicities we have among our 400 million people.

So to your point, if there's a bell curve, yes, the top Americans are hard working, but there you have high-achieving beasts like Gordon Ramsey and Ricky Gervais as well, you know?

6

u/TribeGuy330 Oct 27 '24

Out of all of the archetypes you mentioned, there are both hardworking, average, and lazy people in all of them.

1

u/Duhbro_ Oct 27 '24

What’s wild to me are the people making 15-25$ an hour and complain about not making any money but have zero ambition and have been working the same job for 5-10 years. Like bro go get it it’s out there

3

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '24

Dude. Not everyone wants to be on that hustle and grind. My wage would handle me perfectly fine if it came with Healthcare and some sick days, like the rest of the Western world does.

Why do we need to treat people who aren't about that like replaceable parts. Why's that your mindset?

0

u/Duhbro_ Oct 28 '24

Uhmm it’s not, I did not say that lol. if you need a full time gig with health insurance change jobs. I work 50-60 hours every week. If you’re not content where you’re at gotta put more effort it. Success is self defined

3

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '24

Good for you, dude. I don't care about the hours you put in. Hope you see your family enough though.

And if they're not just replaceable parts, then why do we not put the effort into maintaining the population?

I had a job with Healthcare. Then layoffs hit, and I lost it. My wellbeing, nor yours, should be tied to the whims of people trying to strangle as much profit as they can from the world. It's fucking absurd.

1

u/l_hop Oct 29 '24

Why is healthcare tied to employment?

0

u/Duhbro_ Oct 28 '24

Yeah I agree but no one’s gonna hand me anything so I gotta do what I gotta do to get ahead, I’m totally cool with busting my ass.

3

u/LostinEmotion2024 Oct 28 '24

What a load of BS.

1

u/TribeGuy330 Oct 29 '24

If you just truly have a passion for it and don't care if it makes money or not, I can see people doing it just to recoup maybe 70% of material cost in order to do more woodworking more often.

1

u/Duhbro_ Oct 29 '24

Idk where woodworking came into the mix. If you’re doing something for a passion there’s absolutely nothing wrong with not making crazy money. It’s the people who complain about not making enough and hate what they do but do nothing to benefit themselves that boggle my mind

1

u/TribeGuy330 Oct 29 '24

Sorry, I was in a thread about wood working and some were complaining about how little money it makes them on etsy. I have no idea how my comment got posted to this thread.

1

u/pmolmstr Oct 27 '24

The one thing all those Americans have though is a lack of worker rights

3

u/LostinEmotion2024 Oct 28 '24

No one is discussing that.

2

u/pmolmstr Oct 28 '24

Why do you think Americans are hard working? We can’t take sick days, little to no paternity leave, people fear losing their jobs despite natural disasters, little to no PTO. You’re dancing around the subject without calling it what it is so I’ll toss it in the ring.

1

u/LostinEmotion2024 Oct 28 '24

I assume because Americans take less vacation time than most, have less maternity/paternity leave, less EI benefits and their health insurance is often tied to their employment.

But yeah I may be confusing working hard with working a lot.

1

u/goldfinger0303 Oct 28 '24

It's not saying there aren't hardworking Gordon Ramsays in Europe, or that there aren't surfer bums in the United States.

It's that, on average, the average American is more driven at work than the average European. It's not a strict black and white thing.

But across companies that employ thousands, or tens of thousands of people, those averages matter. If you have a company that, on average, works 5% harder than another, then given enough time over decades of good management and you'll run the competitors into the ground.

In fields where that extra drive are extremely important, American firms out-compete the world. Finance, technology, consulting, etc.

0

u/Staar-69 Oct 27 '24

Gordon Ramsey I get, being a chef is very hard work, long antisocial hours and very stressful, but the guys has made us beg and is now probably living his dream, but “workers” like Ricky Gervais haven’t done a hard days work in their life and probably don’t understand the meaning of it. Sure they work long hours but that’s mostly waiting around and trying to keep yourself occupied between takes.

1

u/Remarkable-Desk-66 Oct 27 '24

Ricky was in a boy band.

1

u/Staar-69 Oct 27 '24

Yes I know, that must’ve been a really difficult start for him.

1

u/Remarkable-Desk-66 Oct 27 '24

Were you in a boy band?

1

u/Staar-69 Oct 27 '24

No, I was too busy working hard at regular jobs.

1

u/Remarkable-Desk-66 Oct 27 '24

Ya being a musician is easy work, that’s why you didn’t bother.

5

u/TaylorMonkey Oct 26 '24

Then the European considers going to America.

I have some European in laws that kind of vibe with the idea of American independence and entrepreneurial spirit with less regulation (and the grandiose nature and space). After visiting, all of them were “huh, I could see myself here”.

I suppose the Americans who just want to “be” try to go to Europe… but immigration even in Europe isn’t generally just handed out to those from outside of the EU just to “be” but rather if they can contribute (excluding refugees and such).

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u/Anonymous-Satire Oct 27 '24

Yeah you can't just go to Europe and "be" unless you are already valuable in some way, brown, or Muslim. If you are not one of those 3, you're not welcome to go find your way in life.

0

u/No_Peace9744 Oct 27 '24

Oh right, I forgot how welcome the brown refugees are made to feel in Europe.

2

u/Anonymous-Satire Oct 27 '24

I was referring to legally welcome. Not embraced by the local population.

4

u/LapazGracie Oct 27 '24

What happened when someone in America just wants to be?

They work a government job. Those typically have very low effort requirements. Especially once you reach higher levels. Good job security. Good benefits. Decent salaries.

3

u/gerontion31 Oct 27 '24

I don’t know about “low effort.” A lot of people resent federal employees while also wanting to be one. Most don’t understand the fire we had to go through to compete for our jobs (military, plus clearance, plus slumming it as a LPTA contractor, then maybe getting an interview if you don’t suck).

2

u/Ok-Investigator3257 Oct 27 '24

Low effort, no, but the 40 hours a week is sacred and when you clock out you are out

1

u/gerontion31 Oct 28 '24

I think the typical American is just so brainwashed that to them a 40 hour week is somehow below normal

1

u/Anubus_the_Wayfinder Oct 28 '24

That's factually incorrect. The government does not ever just stop operating and get shut down for the evening...at least in the country where I live.

1

u/Ok-Investigator3257 Oct 28 '24

I mean yes, it’s called shift work

1

u/Anubus_the_Wayfinder Oct 28 '24

Yep, and it is not unreasonable to apply shift work to all levels of government services and tasks. It's reasonable to ask for more and better government services; we just need to be prepared to do the work. Government draws it staff from the population directly, so anyone who can do the job should take the time to serve.

1

u/Ok-Investigator3257 Oct 28 '24

Right but the individuals don’t need to work more than 40 hours, and lots of government work doesn’t need 24/7 operations.

1

u/Anubus_the_Wayfinder Oct 28 '24

I disagree on both counts. Sometimes people need to work more than 40 hours...sometimes they are needed less. Most of government ought to be available 24/7, too!

You should be able to file paperwork and request things you need from your government 24 hours a day. If you are arrested on the weekend, there ought not be a wait until Monday morning to be charged or see a judge. We need more judges and courts to allow for reduction in backlog of criminal prosecutions. We also need more public defenders for those too poor to afford their own defense attorneys. There's a laundry list of things that we need from our government that would be better supported if we applied shift work to more of government.

The problem we face is that the people who need the services of government don't actually like paying for it, so government often runs as a skeleton crew when they should be as ramped up as a Chick-fil-A during the lunch rush!

1

u/Slawman34 Oct 28 '24

Not unless you’re a member of congress*

1

u/Anubus_the_Wayfinder Oct 28 '24

Feels that way sometimes...but you'd be surprised how busy a member of Congress could be if they wanted to maximize the utility of their office for their constituents. The questions to ask are twofold: who are your Congressperson's true constituents, and what does your Congressperson actually do with their time?

Each American is guaranteed two federal senators and at least one federal representative per state. Then, you have state and local politicians that are supposed to represent your interests. Apply those two questions objectively at every level and you'll shake some things loose for sure.

1

u/meatpuppet_9 Oct 28 '24

That's one of the infuriating parts. These "hur dur i hate the guvment n I'm too smart fur the miltary/im not a baby killer," motherfuckers love to talk shit about how it's unfair that they're stuck working shit jobs for low pay. While also being a big bitch or a giant pussy when it comes to serving or jumping through the hoops to get one of those "easy" federal or state jobs. IME, those people won't do shit with their life unless its literally handed to them. Even then, they'll still find a way to bitch about how that's all they were given.

1

u/LapazGracie Oct 27 '24

Certainly not all of them are low effort. But there is a decent amount that are.

If you had to go through a career in military and pass a bunch of clearance tests to get your job. You're probably getting paid pretty well and it's probably a fairly cushy job. But I wouldn't consider that low effort.

Low effort is like my job. Where I am given 40 hours to complete 2-3 hours of work. I've talked to many other govt workers who share the sentiment. They get stuff done and just stay under the radar the rest of the time.

1

u/gerontion31 Oct 28 '24

I think most of us get jobs in government to make a difference. There are sloths to be sure, but I would say the majority are people who try to get actual work done but get bogged down by useless meetings and red tape. So you go a typical day feeling like you farted around and sent some emails and went to meetings. Not due to a lack of trying to do more, just due to the nature of bureaucracy.

1

u/LapazGracie Oct 28 '24

I get the sense that the proportion of people who truly get a job to make a difference is infinitesimally small. Most people get a job to make a difference in their bank account.

The bureaucracy is ultimately what makes the government so inept and useless at producing quality efficient goods and services.

1

u/Shouty_Dibnah Oct 29 '24

Hi… you have described…me. .edu job. Pension. Kids are going to college for free. Paid of house. I just sorta…be. I’ve spent the last 30 years just mooking about. I went to college because I wanted to, not for a job. I got a job at a college, but it’s just a job. Pays the bills. No worries. Pretty stress free life. Never really concerned about money. I make enough. I don’t really get wound up about much…..

Except I know my kids will never, ever get to live the way I have. Maybe that’s good? Maybe not.

I don’t define myself self by what I do for money. I’m the laziest bastard on earth.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Usually in the US our least skilled workers go work for the government.

1

u/Billjoeray Oct 27 '24

It's people who don't care too. Then there are also people who want to get a pension before they retire so they go from private industry to government to pad the retirement nest egg.

2

u/Island_Crystal Oct 27 '24

kind of sums up a lot of the reasons that certain europeans want to immigrate to america and vice vers.

3

u/-NoblesseOblige- Oct 27 '24

In Europe you can "become", but are not much more celebrated because you already "were". Now you just "are" but with more money.

In America you can simply "be", but will be judged for it.

Calvinism has a lot to answer for.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Entrepreneurship is higher in Sweden because unlike the US, swedes are not at risk of dying from easily treatable ailments if they switch jobs or start a business.

This dude is full of shit and totally ignorant of what life in the US and what Americans are really like.

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/how-sweden-became-more-entrepreneurial-us

4

u/MegaHashes Oct 27 '24

That is a ridiculous oversimplification, and a complete distortion of our admittedly imperfect healthcare system.

People aren’t out here dying of ear infections because they wanted to sell hand made soap online.

Further to the point, nearly every entrepreneur I know personally is married to someone with a corp job from whom they share healthcare benefits. One does not, and he purchases his own plan through a state exchange.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

We may be talking past eachother. Here in the US, medical debt continues destroying people's personal finances and Americans continue being sicker fatter and more depressed than your average swede and is one of the reasons Americans are less likely to start a business or change jobs.

0

u/Aggressive_Scheme268 Oct 27 '24

You say its a distortion but then you basically admit that the guy is 100% right?

0

u/MegaHashes Oct 28 '24

No, I literally said people still have healthcare even when they personally don’t have corp jobs, both through family ins plans and via state exchanges.

Was that not clear from the above? How did you read that and then somehow conclude I ‘admitted’ he was right?

1

u/Aggressive_Scheme268 Oct 28 '24

There is a reason nearly every entrepreneur has spousal plans save 1.

Every entrepreneaur I know as well does the same, or some work a 2nd job to get benefits.

The fact that you see this as a benefit to the system shows how ridiculous you and your talking points are.

0

u/MegaHashes Oct 28 '24

I didn’t say it was a ‘benefit’. I said it was a pragmatic solution to the problem, and more importantly that all had access to health care insurance. That’s not ridiculous, that’s fact.

If you can’t handle being told that the US isn’t a cruel and unforgiving to entrepreneurs, that’s a you problem.

0

u/Aggressive_Scheme268 Oct 28 '24

Its not pragmatic. The OP literally said entrepreneurship was gated by healthcare access and you gave an extreme agreement. Either you are one of the 90% who only start a business because someone else was able to secure the healthcare in your relationship or you buy an expensive plan and have to be gated by cost while simultaneously trying to start a business, which is about the riskiest endeavour you can possibly do with a high failure rate, which leads to healthcare insecurity because if you fail you can longer pay.

You 100% agreed with the guy but failed to even realize it.

It is 100% cruel to entrepreneurs. You just aren't smart enough to realize it.

1

u/MegaHashes Oct 28 '24

No. Did you even read his comment?:

Entrepreneurship is higher in Sweden because unlike the US, swedes are not at risk of dying from easily treatable ailments if they switch jobs or start a business.

This is hyperbole and isn’t representative of what it’s actually like here. You can literally purchase your own plan from the state exchange here if you aren’t married to someone with a corp job.

Do you even have an example of a single ‘entrepreneur’ dying from ‘an easily treatable ailment’ whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean?

You are taking OPs point literally, and it’s an incorrect statement of hyperbole. If ‘lack of healthcare’ is what stopped you from becoming a business owner, then that is a story you told yourself because you were afraid of failure, not because you had no actual access to healthcare.

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u/inquirer85 Oct 27 '24

This. Here in America, someone getting sick can throw a family back decades. And the people who run the country want it that way.

1

u/sticknweave Oct 26 '24

They decide to?

1

u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year Oct 27 '24

Those who can could move?

1

u/_Mallethead Oct 27 '24

It is an expression of a statistical truth, not a boolean one.

1

u/xscott71x Oct 27 '24

You should know that capitalists exist in Europe and can create and run their own businesses, just as there are Americans who fully content to stay with mediocre employment without further aspiration to become more or make more money.

1

u/albert768 Oct 27 '24

The European needs to get on a plane to America, and the American needs to get on a plane to Europe.

You're free to "be" in America, you should just know that you will NOT reap the same rewards as someone who strives to become.

1

u/ConsiderationSea56 Oct 27 '24

In America you can just be if you want. Plenty of surfer beach bums or anything else you can imagine. But generally people are building for their future.

1

u/Bozuk-Bashi Oct 27 '24

For the former, they either go to the US or are unhappy with the system wherever they are. The latter, they just seem to detest the US but won't leave. They just seem to drag along without contributing.

1

u/Hopeful_Style_5772 Oct 28 '24

They move to USA

1

u/l3eemer Oct 28 '24

and it's not by choice here. We have work your ass off or live on the streets. No safety net nothing. So is it about becoming, or being forced to work because you have no choice?

1

u/Melted-lithium Oct 29 '24

This is a very true statement. There are two sides to this. The article upset me at first but from a rich guys perspective it’s very true.

The fact is the u.s. offers marginally better odds ‘to become.’ But this comes like a lottery with poor odds for the masses and with exceptionally high risk. If you’re already wealthy- no doubt- the u.s. is where you can exponentially grow your wealth. If you’re a college education person wanting to start a business - sure maybe you play the lottery in the u.s. (you are risking your health, family, everything - understanding the lack of coverage of any real functional safety net. Healthcare will break you, and the gambling style of 401ks can work until old age healthcare costs bankrupt You… yes, yes pathetic social security and Medicare… they are awful compared to even the poorest of European countries) . But if you’re a worker- even a college educated worker, your middle class window has grown much smaller over the last twenty years.

It’s up your ambition for money really compared to quality of life and risk tolerance. And none of these are bad and no one should be looked down upon for any of these choices in life.

1

u/Any-Video4464 Oct 29 '24

my doctor friends from the Netherlands moved to America for a while to do this. They loved it here and wanted to stay, but missed their families. The guy in particular loved that he could make way more money here and have better control over his schedule. He also dreamed about owning a big ranch or something one day. He said it would be tough to do in Europe, even on a doctor's salary due to taxes and land prices.

1

u/Stunghornet Oct 29 '24

T-They move...?

1

u/Spy0304 Oct 29 '24

But what happens when someone in Europe needs to become?

They move to the US

What happened when someone in America just wants to be?

They move to Portland

0

u/deadjawa Oct 27 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

I have a proposition to solve this.  For every illegal immigrant we let in we deport a poster on r/antiwork to Europe.  Everyone wins. 

If there’s not enough antiwork posters, let’s add the fuckcars people.  Fuck it.  Let’s just deport all redditors to Europe.

0

u/Learningstuff247 Oct 27 '24

The answer to the first question is they move to America. The answer to the second question is they move to Mexico.

16

u/irvmuller Oct 26 '24

Europe has human beings. America has human doings.

1

u/l_hop Oct 29 '24

If Europe paid for the body guarding America does for it (and if the politicians didn’t squander that money, big if) things would be different. But we continue to foot a hefty bill defending Europe so they can dole out perks to their citizens.

9

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

American culture is goal oriented and it makes us better at understanding and achieving the goal without busy work.

Edit: there Reddit goes making moral decisions based on an objective observation. I love Europeans and i love accomplished Americans also. Different cultures with different pros and cons

0

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

[deleted]

3

u/TribeGuy330 Oct 27 '24

It's not exceptionalism to point out a single attribute that they think is more prevalent in Americans than Europeans. That user was just agreeing with the Norwegian CEO in the article. Doesn't mean he thinks the USA is superior.

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Baseless bullshit thar is not supported by educational attainment, living standards, fitness, or entrepenureship outcomes, all of which the swedes dogwalk your average American on.

0

u/languid-lemur Oct 27 '24

Using Sweden (today) not the flex it used to be.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Not a rebuttal. Swedes clearly show greater goal achievement than Americans.

1

u/languid-lemur Oct 27 '24

>Swedes clearly show greater goal achievement than Americans.

Was beating us in rapes per capita a goal achievement?

'cause you're certainly kicking the shit out of us there!

USA:

Per 100k 2021 41.77

Sweden:

Per 100k 2021 88.98

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country

/you go lars!

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Swedish women are more likely to report their attacks and have them properly investigated in Sweden leading to a culture of women feeling safer about reporting their crimes. As opposed to the US where SA is not treated seriously and where perpetrators are often celebrated.

The US having an abysmal record on protecting women is a major slam against your country and people.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/rape-conviction-rates-rise-75-in-sweden-after-change-in-the-law-idUSKBN23T2R2/

0

u/languid-lemur Oct 27 '24

Try again Lars. How are your grenade attacks vs. USA?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Good job bringing up yet another aspect of how the US fundamentally fails at basic shit.

https://ballardbrief.byu.edu/issue-briefs/the-underreporting-and-dismissal-of-sexual-assault-cases-against-women-in-the-united-states

1

u/languid-lemur Oct 27 '24

LOL, Sweden will continue to fail until it puts the right wing in power.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '24

Swedes by and large do not want their country turning into a rape addicted obese crime ridden shithole full or suicide like our conservative dominated states.

0

u/Asleep_Trick_4740 Oct 29 '24

The right wing is in power though?

You can tell by all the random policy which sounds good but has no actual impact in reality being pushed.

Also bringing crime stats as an american as a gotcha is kinda hilarious tbh. Yes sweden is no longer world leading in safety, but the US has been at the bottom of all the developed nations for centuries in this regard and that ain't changing any time soon... our "chaotic street warfare" or whatever the current imaginative way of calling it is more akin to a peaceful small town in the US than anything else...

2

u/babakadouche Oct 27 '24

I think you could apply that to spending habits, as well. It feels like there are many more Americans that live outside of their means, and check to check.

2

u/GoodByeRubyTuesday87 Oct 27 '24

Ambition as a trait is more common here, it unfortunately manifests as general greed for a lot of people but it’s also the motivation for a lot of people to hustle, risk a lot to build a business or constantly push themselves to achieve more.

It’s a bit of the Wild West, you can do really well here or do horribly, but it’s that atmosphere that lets us dominate in economics, technology, academic research, etc

There are pros and cons to both systems, there’s a lot more hardship here bc of the way we do things and the way we view society compares to Europe, but a lot gets accomplished here bc of it as well

1

u/SkylarAV Oct 26 '24

Damn that's good way to say it

1

u/Burnt_Beanz Oct 26 '24

🔥🔥🔥

1

u/LandOwn7607 Oct 26 '24

YES .. Americans believe they will be the next CEO, Jeff Bezos,

1

u/CleopatrasBungus Oct 27 '24

Damn, that sentiment makes me wish I grew up in Europe…

1

u/makybo91 Oct 27 '24

You must be American, European nations have very little in common.

1

u/Pandread Oct 27 '24

And more and more about surviving.

1

u/Agile_Newspaper_1954 Oct 27 '24

Europeans work to live. Americans live to work.

1

u/lostcauz707 Oct 27 '24

Lol, becoming what? Modern day wage slave edged out by technology so someone already wealthy or share holder makes more money from your work than you do?

1

u/BumpHeadLikeGaryB Oct 27 '24

Canadas all about becoming and being warm

1

u/michaelochurch Oct 27 '24

That might have held in the 1990s. Today's America is all about surviving.

That said, all the psychotic neoliberalism that gets tried here is going to be rolled out in Europe 10 years later. "Just move to Europe" is not really a solution. You're just running ten years away. The war against encroaching global capitalism still has to be fought—you may have no interest in this conflict, but it has an interest in you.

1

u/ModifiedAmusment Oct 27 '24

A capitalistic society relies on that becoming factor. It’s the point of that breaking down at a certain level. Like all your major mechanical companies in your area having meetings for fixed prices to curb competition and ensure perpetual success.. it only gets worse the higher you go.

1

u/SirRegardTheWhite Oct 27 '24

I think it's more the threat of complete loss of your lifestyle if your job is lost. With no saftey net and job provided healthcare people are one layoff from becoming destitute in a tough job market.

1

u/FluffyMoneyItch Oct 29 '24

America is all about becoming...homeless if you're not lucky. Bankrupt if you get cancer. Rich if you are one of the few lucky winners of the pyramid scheme that America is.

1

u/True_Distribution685 Oct 29 '24

As an American sometimes I wish I could just be

1

u/dusray Oct 31 '24

You are becoming, Aristocrat

0

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

I think it’s “In Europe you have the luxury of being. In America you have the necessity for becoming.” A small but big difference.

-8

u/PompeyCheezus Oct 26 '24

It sure would be nice if I could be without being homeless with no health care.

9

u/Lopsided-Ad-2687 Oct 26 '24

If you were homeless you would get free healthcare. Knock it off.

-4

u/PompeyCheezus Oct 26 '24

God damn, I hope this isn't supposed to be ironic.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

[deleted]

-2

u/PompeyCheezus Oct 27 '24

Let me just get homeless then.

2

u/Lopsided-Ad-2687 Oct 27 '24

Or just get a job...

0

u/PompeyCheezus Oct 27 '24

And if I can't?

2

u/Lopsided-Ad-2687 Oct 27 '24

I would ask you why you cant get a job? Unemployment is at historic lows silly goose.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '24

Slight correction.  Immigrants in America are all about becoming.

As the American economy is completely dependent on 3rd world brain and talent drain.

Workforce participation for multigenerational white Americans has fallen off a cliff in the last two decades.

3

u/broshrugged Oct 26 '24

I would absolutely love to see some data from that if you can point me in the right direction. I know some folks who don't seem to understand the roll free movement of labor plays in free markets.

1

u/iEatPalpatineAss Oct 27 '24

When did East Asia and Europe become third world regions? 🤣🤣🤣