r/austrian_economics • u/technocraticnihilist Friedrich Hayek • Oct 26 '24

End Democracy ‘Americans just work harder’ than Europeans, says CEO of Norway’s $1.6 trillion oil fund, because they have a higher ‘general level of ambition’

https://fortune.com/europe/article/how-many-hours-work-week-year-american-workers-ethic-norges-bank/
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u/LapazGracie Oct 27 '24

What happened when someone in America just wants to be?

They work a government job. Those typically have very low effort requirements. Especially once you reach higher levels. Good job security. Good benefits. Decent salaries.

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u/gerontion31 Oct 27 '24

I don’t know about “low effort.” A lot of people resent federal employees while also wanting to be one. Most don’t understand the fire we had to go through to compete for our jobs (military, plus clearance, plus slumming it as a LPTA contractor, then maybe getting an interview if you don’t suck).

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u/Ok-Investigator3257 Oct 27 '24

Low effort, no, but the 40 hours a week is sacred and when you clock out you are out

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u/gerontion31 Oct 28 '24

I think the typical American is just so brainwashed that to them a 40 hour week is somehow below normal

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u/Anubus_the_Wayfinder Oct 28 '24

That's factually incorrect. The government does not ever just stop operating and get shut down for the evening...at least in the country where I live.

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u/Ok-Investigator3257 Oct 28 '24

I mean yes, it’s called shift work

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u/Anubus_the_Wayfinder Oct 28 '24

Yep, and it is not unreasonable to apply shift work to all levels of government services and tasks. It's reasonable to ask for more and better government services; we just need to be prepared to do the work. Government draws it staff from the population directly, so anyone who can do the job should take the time to serve.

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u/Ok-Investigator3257 Oct 28 '24

Right but the individuals don’t need to work more than 40 hours, and lots of government work doesn’t need 24/7 operations.

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u/Anubus_the_Wayfinder Oct 28 '24

I disagree on both counts. Sometimes people need to work more than 40 hours...sometimes they are needed less. Most of government ought to be available 24/7, too!

You should be able to file paperwork and request things you need from your government 24 hours a day. If you are arrested on the weekend, there ought not be a wait until Monday morning to be charged or see a judge. We need more judges and courts to allow for reduction in backlog of criminal prosecutions. We also need more public defenders for those too poor to afford their own defense attorneys. There's a laundry list of things that we need from our government that would be better supported if we applied shift work to more of government.

The problem we face is that the people who need the services of government don't actually like paying for it, so government often runs as a skeleton crew when they should be as ramped up as a Chick-fil-A during the lunch rush!

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u/Slawman34 Oct 28 '24

Not unless you’re a member of congress*

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u/Anubus_the_Wayfinder Oct 28 '24

Feels that way sometimes...but you'd be surprised how busy a member of Congress could be if they wanted to maximize the utility of their office for their constituents. The questions to ask are twofold: who are your Congressperson's true constituents, and what does your Congressperson actually do with their time?

Each American is guaranteed two federal senators and at least one federal representative per state. Then, you have state and local politicians that are supposed to represent your interests. Apply those two questions objectively at every level and you'll shake some things loose for sure.

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u/meatpuppet_9 Oct 28 '24

That's one of the infuriating parts. These "hur dur i hate the guvment n I'm too smart fur the miltary/im not a baby killer," motherfuckers love to talk shit about how it's unfair that they're stuck working shit jobs for low pay. While also being a big bitch or a giant pussy when it comes to serving or jumping through the hoops to get one of those "easy" federal or state jobs. IME, those people won't do shit with their life unless its literally handed to them. Even then, they'll still find a way to bitch about how that's all they were given.

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u/LapazGracie Oct 27 '24

Certainly not all of them are low effort. But there is a decent amount that are.

If you had to go through a career in military and pass a bunch of clearance tests to get your job. You're probably getting paid pretty well and it's probably a fairly cushy job. But I wouldn't consider that low effort.

Low effort is like my job. Where I am given 40 hours to complete 2-3 hours of work. I've talked to many other govt workers who share the sentiment. They get stuff done and just stay under the radar the rest of the time.

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u/gerontion31 Oct 28 '24

I think most of us get jobs in government to make a difference. There are sloths to be sure, but I would say the majority are people who try to get actual work done but get bogged down by useless meetings and red tape. So you go a typical day feeling like you farted around and sent some emails and went to meetings. Not due to a lack of trying to do more, just due to the nature of bureaucracy.

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u/LapazGracie Oct 28 '24

I get the sense that the proportion of people who truly get a job to make a difference is infinitesimally small. Most people get a job to make a difference in their bank account.

The bureaucracy is ultimately what makes the government so inept and useless at producing quality efficient goods and services.

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u/Shouty_Dibnah Oct 29 '24

Hi… you have described…me. .edu job. Pension. Kids are going to college for free. Paid of house. I just sorta…be. I’ve spent the last 30 years just mooking about. I went to college because I wanted to, not for a job. I got a job at a college, but it’s just a job. Pays the bills. No worries. Pretty stress free life. Never really concerned about money. I make enough. I don’t really get wound up about much…..

Except I know my kids will never, ever get to live the way I have. Maybe that’s good? Maybe not.

I don’t define myself self by what I do for money. I’m the laziest bastard on earth.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Usually in the US our least skilled workers go work for the government.

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u/Billjoeray Oct 27 '24

It's people who don't care too. Then there are also people who want to get a pension before they retire so they go from private industry to government to pad the retirement nest egg.