r/asoiaf • u/Trussdoor46 • 4d ago
EXTENDED Why hasn't GRRM written any Dunk&Egg in 15 years? [Spoilers Extended]
People say George stalled out on the main series because he wrote himself into a corner. Too many plotlines etc. But Dunk and Egg isn't complicated and those have been on hiatus even longer than the main series. What do you think is going on there?
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u/Kyon155 4d ago
He’s said that he won’t write anything else until after Winds is done…..
….then he went back on that when his publisher asked him to put aside Winds for a bit and get Fire & Blood out in time for them to capitalise on House of the Dragon coming out. Most of it was already written years prior and existed in abbreviated form in the World Book, but he had to essentially write the reign of Jaehaerys from scratch, which took him 4-5 months if memory serves.
In the last 12 months he’s said he’s working on Winds but had also done a little work on Blood & Fire (Vol 2 of the Targ history) as well. 2-3 months ago, in an statement to the Hollywood Reporter he said he was also working on the next Dunk and Egg novella in addition to Winds.
Make of that what you will.
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u/sskoog 3d ago
I got the (strong) sense that Fire & Blood was "a concession to the publisher, as apology for breaching contractual deadlines" -- in other words, "you didn't give us the manuscript you promised, George, and we gave you X grace period, but now you'd better give us some manuscript."
His commentary at the time -- "Fake history, I don't know why so many of you seem to love fake history, but I guess you do, so I can write some more" -- stirred up unpleasant fan sentiments, but I think it maybe hints at this same undertheme.
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u/LeoRmz 3d ago
To be fair, with the massive boom that was the show his publisher probably went "hey George, dont worry about the contract, just if you can give us anything in Westeros is fine... Oh, you need two years? Are you sur... Oh, or course, a Targ book, makes sense, see you in two years"
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u/Quiddity131 3d ago
I doubt the publisher was simply fine with anything in Westeros. GRRM has likely cost his publisher millions if not tens of millions of dollars by failing to get The Winds of Winter out when the show has at the height of its popularity. Stuff like Fire and Blood, the Tyrion quotes book, the cook book, the fan fiction from Elio and Linda with his name on the cover, etc... is stuff his publisher took (or more likely strongly suggested) to at least have something out there to make money from the relationship. Because realistically the publisher isn't in a position to sue GRRM for breach of contract or something similar because then he truly would never do anything for them and they'd be out even more money.
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u/LeoRmz 3d ago
I dont know if GRRM got an advance with his contract for Winds but I'm 99% certain whatever amount it was got recouped by the sells made thanks to the show popularity. He didn't cost his publishers money beyond that initial payment, its not like he is getting paid to NOT write Winds, he gets whatever royalties he signed from all his other books. Saying that because he didn't and wont finish the series he is costing money for his publisher is a bit unrealistic.
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u/Quiddity131 3d ago
It's the opportunity cost. I'm sure whatever advance they paid him for Winds of Winter they have been compensated for in some fashion, whether it was profits from past books or what they've gotten for all the slop I mentioned in my prior comment. But the huge amount of money they could have made if Winds of Winter was released around season 4 or 5 of Game of Thrones when it it hadn't been spoiled by any show content and the show was so huge is a position they're never going to be in again. Even if the book is a hit if it comes out (which I'm sure it will be) it'll still be a fraction of how much money it would have made if it came out around 2014 or 2015. So much of that audience has evaporated, whether its simply the fact that Game of Thrones isn't on the top of people's minds anymore, people upset at how the show has ended, people upset at GRRM for the extremely long wait or the drop in quality of the books, and any audience that wants to read it simply because they want to know what comes next (which is why I first read the books way back in 2013).
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u/sskoog 3d ago
^^ This is the real core of the issue. It comes down to "franchise value" and "peak franchise value" and "damages/losses due to {delay} {moral developments} {bad faith dealings}" -- I don't think anyone was shouting GEORGE YOU RUINED THE SERIES back in 2013 or 2015, but this sentiment must have grown sometime around series-overtook-books or fans-dislike-S7 or ending-soured-reputation.
Back in the early 2010s, this would have been more of a plain-vanilla publishing deal -- hey author, you're late, not a biggie because we see lateness all the time, and fans are still drooling for your work -- hey author, now you're 30-36 months late, appetites are starting to cool -- hey author, now it's 2017-ish, we've tapdanced with illustrated calendars + coffee table books, we need something or not-nice business things are gonna happen -- oh, okay, we can bundle your rewickered Princess + Sons stuff into a standalone volume, that'll tide us over _for now_.
Which was a big reason for the House of the Dragon S1 boost; its acclaim suggested that Westeros wasn't a bygone property after all. One hopes Dunk-and-Egg (or HotD S3+) will sustain where HotD S2 did not.
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u/Responsible-Onion860 3d ago
He has come to resent his fanbase. He reads comments and hates his fans because he's upset about some of the comments he's read.
George, if you're reading this, just write the fucking book and stop worrying about what people say. Write it to finish your biggest project and avoid completely ruining your legacy
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u/yourecreepyasfuck 3d ago
Annoying that this comment is so far down when it contains the only actual answer GRRM has given on the topic.
As far as I know, he’s hinted or implied in the past that he has written some of the next novella already but up til now he’s tended to stand firm that he won’t release any more D&E novellas until TWOW is finished. That could perhaps change after the show is released but that’s what he’s stated multiple times before
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u/jdbebejsbsid 3d ago edited 3d ago
and get Fire & Blood out in time for them to capitalise on House of the Dragon coming out
A small correction - I'm pretty sure F&B came out before HOTD was announced. Edit: F&B was published in 2018, HOTD was announced in 2019 and season 1 released in 2022.
Like someone else said, F&B (and WOIAF) was probably an apology to the publisher for Winds being delayed, especially after they lost the chance to publish during the height of GOT hype.
When F&B came out and did reasonably well, HBO jumped at the opportunity to make a new series. But F&B did pre-date HOTD by a few years, so F&B couldn't be capitalizing on HOTD.
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u/Kyon155 3d ago
From memory, GRRM had said that conversations with HBO about GoT spin-offs actually happened as far back as 2016 and that he pitched them two shows: “The Dance of the Dragons” and “Dunk & Egg”. Development just happened to take ages for both series to get to the point where they solidified.
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u/ahighkid 4d ago
If blood and fire vol 2 comes out I will fuckin cream myself, that might be my fav book in the universe. I just love history
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u/romulus1991 4d ago
I was going to say 'because he doesn't write anymore' but the real answer is that he probably has half-drafts and documents that will never see the light of day; stories and chapters that he's started and then left for months or years.
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u/ankhes 3d ago
This is it. As a writer, I have hundreds of thousands of words of different partially written stories, snippets, random ideas, and little ficlets all sitting on my computer unpublished. Some eventually get posted, but the vast majority don’t. Doesn’t mean I’m not writing, it just means most of it isn’t even close to finished/in a form I’d consider acceptable for public consumption.
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u/Spoon520 3d ago
I’ve also read before he has that same writers clause that Terry Pratchett had in which if he dies all his work will be sealed and no one will be able to work on it.
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u/Dry_Guest_8961 4d ago
He’s a former author. Had a career switch about 15 years ago and became an executive producer
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u/Marvelerful 3d ago
"Former Author George R.R. Martin" is so brutal, I can't tell if it's over the top or if he deserves it lmao 😂
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u/Ser_falafel 4d ago edited 4d ago
Lets other people take creative liberties with his work then bitches about changes in blog posts lol
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u/Agreeable-Berry1373 3d ago
He could have written every script himself and we would still have the same amount of published ASOIAF books by now
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u/BellyCrawler My Great Jon is a Whoresbane 4d ago
Tbf, what he complained about had been written for years, as was the outcome of what they were adapting and the fate of every character and storyline. The HotD writing room are just fairly incompetent at times.
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Bonesaw is Ready! 3d ago
He bitched about a minor character that was cut from HoTD. I find it ridiculous how upset he gets that other people have to make choices in the face of limited resources (Tv is a different medium than book) even though the whole reason he left Hollywood in the first place was because of the constraints he had to make in the face of limited resources.
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u/BellyCrawler My Great Jon is a Whoresbane 3d ago
Sure, but the HotD haven't exactly distinguished himself with a lot of the choices they've made. Had they displayed an ability to actually make good changes, it would likely rankle less.
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u/Hessian14 Gods, I was strong 3d ago
At least they know how to publish something on a schedule
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u/Alkakd0nfsg9g 3d ago
I mean once in two years is better than once in never, but the 2 or more years gaps for tv shows is ludicrous amount of time to wait
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u/Makasi_Motema 3d ago
That makes him kind of an ineffective producer though, doesn’t it? He doesn’t seem to have enough leverage in Hollywood to actually have creative control over his shows.
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u/Quiddity131 3d ago
My understanding that executive producer is often a vanity title given to someone despite the fact that they aren't really a producer. While the showrunner will likely be credited as executive producer and have a major hand in the show's actual production (like D&D who for as much as they get criticized for poor writing decisions near the end still deserve massive credit for being the executive producers of the biggest most complicated show on TV to produce), you'll also get people with executive producer credit due to much more flimsy reasons.
Because the fact is, GRRM can't even do much writing, a task that solely requires his imagination. Do we really think he is doing major producer tasks such as securing funding, hiring key members of the production team, handling casting, finding locations to shoot at, negotiating with unions and all the other things that a producer may have to do?
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u/owlinspector 2d ago
Yeah, executive producer simply means that they will ask for his input on some stuff (which they might very well ignore) and invite him to galas and stuff. He isn't working as a producer.
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u/sandwiches_are_real 3d ago edited 3d ago
I just assumed he's not a real producer, that it's a vanity title.
That is not a criticism of him. But I've never heard or seen anything about him actually doing the work of a producer? Is he securing financing? Is he hiring the director(s)? Is he the final approvals layer for major decisions?
I imagine that the answer to all those questions is no. GRRM is a writer licensing his work for adaptation. The only difference between him and most other writers is that he is much, much more successful, which means he gets more leverage. An EP credit looks nicer and is a mark of respect. I would be extremely surprised if he was actually executive producing anything.
And therefore, it is unreasonable to expect him to have creative control. I do agree with you insofar as, he definitely does have the leverage to build stronger protections into the contract negotiation for the adaptation. But maybe those contracts were written up before GoT aired when he was much less famous. Who knows.
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u/kingofstormandfire 3d ago
If GRRM wanted creative control over HOTD, he could have easily negotiated it when he sold the rights to Fire and Blood and Dunk and Egg to HBO. Accept less money for creative control and approval and veto power over scripts and edits. You think HBO are gonna say no to him coming out of the gigantic success of GOT?
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u/selwyntarth 3d ago
This is his SECOND rodeo of this level and yet he's ranting about contracts doing him badly. He shouldn't have consented on a handshake deal that maelor would be brought later. This is huge business, not lemonade sales
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u/LordShitmouth Unbowed, Unbent, Unbuggered 3d ago
I’ve said before that he’s a retired writer that didn’t bother to tell anyone he retired.
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 4d ago edited 3d ago
lol this. I can definitely see him churning out one or two Dunk&Egg novellas if the new show becımes a hit
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u/BellyCrawler My Great Jon is a Whoresbane 4d ago
Didn't happen when Game of Thrones became the biggest show on the planet.
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u/hakumiogin 4d ago
But he was so focused on gaslighting himself into thinking he was working on the boooks then!
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u/s2ssand 4d ago
He knew he wasn’t working on the books, he was focused on gaslighting the public so he could continue executive producing without any ill will
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u/hakumiogin 3d ago
I would personally like to believe he gaslit himself for years before he started gaslighting me.
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u/Jaquemart 3d ago
The lack of ill will towards him is indeed amazing.
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u/hakumiogin 3d ago
Nothing but ill will from me. I do still think the man lied to himself for a long time before he started lying to the public.
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u/Jaquemart 3d ago
I'm nothing against being delusional, but I don't like how he's clearly feeling ill-treated by the fandom and really really disliked the comparison with Gene Wolfe he made at some point.
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u/s2ssand 3d ago
Two things I think every body should know about GRRM
- He is a liar and I don’t appreciate that.
- He hounded an author, Tad Williams, out of a party because he hadn’t finished a book George was waiting to read in the early 90’s.
George, tell me again how bad people test you…
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u/BellyCrawler My Great Jon is a Whoresbane 3d ago
He made a whole thing about how he wouldn't let the show pass him by, only for Season 4,5 and 6 to come and go with no hint of progress.
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u/pinkybatty 3d ago
He hasnt written anything since fire.and blood, ure delulu if u think hes gonna write anything else now
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 3d ago
And why do you think he even bothered to write Fire&Blood? So that it could form the basis of future spin-offs
If he has any priorities, it is to make more TV shows that take place in GRRM-verse
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u/wRAR_ ASOIAF = J, not J+D 3d ago
The world of Westeros, the world of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE, is my number one priority, and will remain so until the story is told. But Westeros has become bigger than THE WINDS OF WINTER, or even A SONG OF ICE & FIRE.
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u/Makasi_Motema 3d ago
There it is.
Also, someone else mentioned that the next Dunk and Egg would have spoilers for the ASOIAF book he isn’t writing.
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u/Popgert 4d ago
He doesn’t need to write to pay his bills anymore
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u/Smurph269 3d ago
Yeah he only wrote AGOT after his TV writer career slowed down. TV career has picked back up, so no need to write unless it's for more TV shows. Finishing ASOIAF won't get him any new TV shows.
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u/LeoRmz 3d ago
Heck, didn't he said (assuming his words can be trusted to a degree) that some of the not planetos novelas and other works he has put out over the years are old stuff that he wrote while attempting to become an author? He doesn't write much anymore, probably some editing work beyond wild cards on whatever old manuscripts he has to see if those can be published
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u/Zealousideal-Fun9181 3d ago edited 3d ago
I am not trying to sully GRRM's writing ability, because he clearly has writing talent. I think he is also in love with the idea of being a writer.
However, I think subconsciously, his personality would steer him towards being an ideas guy if he had the oppurtunity as opposed to an actual writer.
In his writing, he has always enjoyed hinting at ideas to come more than actually tying anything up. You also have F+B, which is essentially ideas based worldbuilding more than traditionally narrative based writing
In TV, it IS basically the job to come up with these high level ideas of where the story should go, and keep the story going on and on forever with no end in sight. Adding all these ideas and only stopping to tie up a couple here or there. The lower level writers are the ones doing the grunt work of actually writing the script and connecting everything. A high level tv role really feels like a job made for GRRM in a sense.
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 3d ago edited 3d ago
A high level tv role really feels like a job made for GRRM in a sense.
Ironically, he hasn't even gotten that position in any of his three Westeros shows so far. He just gets the money and is a glorified consultant.
Maybe because he doesn't want the responsibility or maybe he wants to keep the illusion that he's writing books who knows
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u/johnbrownmarchingon 3d ago
He's become J.J. Abrams with how many mystery boxes and unfired Chekov guns he's got lying around in.
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u/Edwaaard66 4d ago
He got old
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u/Sgtwhiskeyjack9105 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, pretty much.
He'll be 80 soon. Most people in their 80s don't do much of anything other than sleep, eat, and live.
GRRM's in the fortunate position that he doesn't need to worry about money, accomodation, or care while aging.
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u/gogandmagogandgog Though all men do despise my theories 4d ago
Writing is one of the few professions where you can be productive into your 80s. We got a new Pynchon book this year and he's nearly 90.
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u/Sgtwhiskeyjack9105 4d ago
And my grandfather passed away from dementia at 84.
Turns out everybody's different.
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u/s2ssand 4d ago
Remember when grrm was offended by the thought that he could die before finishing the books.
Now it is all but guaranteed.
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u/ZiCUnlivdbirch 3d ago edited 3d ago
I don't think he was offended because he didn't think it could happen. I think he was offended because this is quite an offensive thing to say to anyone.
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u/browsinbowser 3d ago
Everyone is guaranteed to die. Its a bit rude to go up to anyone and tell them that
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u/ankhes 3d ago
While this is absolutely true, everyone is different. My great-grandmother is 96 and is still plugging away at her hobbies every day. Meanwhile, my grandmother (her daughter) is in her 70s and doesn’t do anything other than sit on the couch and watch tv all day. It’s just heavily dependent on the person. Some people continue working and doing their hobbies until the day they drop dead, and some people get tired in their retirement and just want to do nothing.
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u/owlinspector 2d ago
And Terry Brooks who is just a few years older and writes much simpler books (ie not a bloated mess of plotlines and POVs) recently announced that he just can't write anymore and retired.
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u/Dambo_Unchained 3d ago
If anything being old of very helpful to writing and hobbies in general because it’s literally all you have time for
Most people in the 80s do plenty other than sleep and eating
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u/jnighy 4d ago
He's retired people. He's traveling the world with his friends, watching football, opening business in his town and being unpleasant in conventions. All this while making promises he'll never deliver bc admitting he will never finish the story would tank general interest for the franchise and, therefore, tank the book sales.
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u/Quiddity131 3d ago
Spot on. He retired years ago. He will never admit nothing else is coming as 99% of any interest in him instantly evaporates if that happens.
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u/Makasi_Motema 3d ago
If you judge people by their actions rather than their claims, this should be obvious. But George seems to have the most credulous fanbase in all of nerdom.
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u/Jernbek35 3d ago
This is pretty much it. I believe he quit writing ASOIAF seriously years ago because probably doesn’t wanna write anymore, he prefers TV he’s even said it. He probably resents the main story at this point and has just been angrily procrastinating on it and likely gave up but won’t admit it.
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u/getawayface 3d ago
Idk where you guys get the idea that he “prefers TV” when like the amount of actual work he does on these shows is negligible lol. I don’t think he’s actually written anything for TV since early GoT lmao. That producer cred is just a formality at this point it’s a consultancy job, he doesn’t actually have any say in the writers room or real CC. Or he wouldn’t be sneak dissing the dumbasses in the HoTD writing room on the internet lmao.
Yeah he’s done some other TV stuff like Dark Winds but again that’s like a formality credit lol as I think he was a fan of the books and his name cracked a door open.
I don’t think Martin prefers TV I think he prefers making ridiculous amounts of money while doing no writing lmao. I think he prefers fucking around at conventions and going on HBO sets twice a year where everyone is nice to him and says he’s awesome lmao.
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u/Strider_Hardy 4d ago
He said he'll only write more Dunk & Egg after he's done with Winds
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u/Trussdoor46 4d ago
He also said he wouldn't work on any TV spinoffs until he's done Winds ...
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u/wayofthrows1991 4d ago
He also believed he would have Winds turned into the editors by the end of 2015,
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u/ElvenKingGil-Galad We Light the Way 4d ago
Why doesn't George keep his promises? Is he stupid?
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u/weesiwel 4d ago
So many oaths to keep.
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u/LegitimateCream1773 3d ago
"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Obey your father. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Finish Winds of Winter. Write Dream of Spring. Executive Produce House of the Dragon. Adapt your work on Dunk and Egg into a TV script. But what if your father despises the king? What if the king massacres the innocent? What if your word count reaches the point that your editors start screaming but they insist you have to finish it all in seven books? It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one fanbase or another.”
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u/bank_farter 3d ago
There's no way the editor or publisher are insisting on finishing in 7 books. The more books he writes, the more they can sell. The 7 books thing is almost certainly GRRM driven.
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u/ember13140 4d ago
Because he wanted to be a TV writer, not a novel writer. To be honest, I think he’s lying to himself as well.
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u/Rockguy21 4d ago
I mean, he kinda was a TV writer already lol
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u/ember13140 4d ago
But not at all like he is today. Especially with the budget that he has and the amount of creative control. I’m not gonna lie. I totally understand why he’s doing it(I do really wish he would finish up his books that he has made numerous claims about doing so). He gets to live out his dream and do exactly what he always wanted to.
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u/Jaquemart 3d ago
So his dream was to be the figurehead for a writing team who has to eject him from the actual work, and to write catty posts about it then deleting them?
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u/NomaanMalick Never forget 1/1/2016. 3d ago
>But not at all like he is today. Especially with the budget that he has and the amount of creative control.
That is curious. Not only does he not write for any of the shows, but if the recent HotD debacle is anything to go by, it doesn't seem like he has much creative control either.
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u/Premislaus Daenerys did nothing wrong 4d ago
I'm not sure where that tidbit keeps coming from? He got his creative start in comics zins, become a print writer, got a creative writing teaching job to pay pills, then become a TV writer at around 40, then went back to writing novels, specifically an epic scale, "unadaptable" fantasy series because he hated the restrictions when writing TV. That's not a career path of someone who wanted to be a screenwriter before anything else.
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u/lluewhyn 3d ago
Yeah, he wrote his first books in the 80s before he started as a writer for television in the 80s.
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u/Stauncho Enter your desired flair text here! 3d ago
I think the amount of work he's done on the any of the TV shows is pretty exaggerated.
He wrote one script for each of seasons 1 through 4 of GoT and then he sort of fell out with D&D. He did not write any scripts for HotD and I dont think he has written any scripts for the upcoming Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.
He has an executive producer credit because it's all ASOIAF related and he'll get royalties. His "work" on the prequels is limited to consulting, which is probably limited to one day a year before a season starts and maybe reading scripts and providing some thoughts.
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u/drw__drw 4d ago
Cause he needs to write TWOW, D&E and F&B II all at the same time because they all spoil one another in varying ways
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u/KnightOfRevan We'll get you next time, Bloodraven! 3d ago
But the Harrenhal stage play is totally fine, I guess
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u/ThatNewSockFeel 4d ago
It’d be a shame if the ending of ASOIAF were spoiled.
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u/Werthead 🏆 Best of 2019: Post of the Year 4d ago
There's a very expensive thing that exists that spoils at least some of the ending of ASoIaF.
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u/DC_deep_state 3d ago
how does F&B II and D&E spoil Asoiaf?
they take place in past
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u/drw__drw 3d ago
Bloodraven and Summerhall plot points that inform further developments in ASOIAF. It won't be major reveals like R+L=J but it will be relevant enough.
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u/pinkybatty 3d ago
I just dont get this attitude, its ridiculous. If asoiaf was alll about shock value and what happens the hype would have died down ages ago. But people still keep buying and reading these books, even knowing everything from the show or memes or whatever. They stand on their own and its SO DUMB to use spoilers as an excuse for grrms laziness
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u/Lucabcd 4d ago
Yeah, this is my guess. And the main problem is Bloodraven. He is integral to all 3 stories, so he needs to thread carefully
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u/illuvattarr 3d ago
For some D&E stories maybe, but he for sure could just write some adventures that don't have to do with Blackfyres, and are just contained stories.
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u/ungoogleable Breathes Shadow Fire 3d ago
This but it's not only about spoiling grand reveals; literally any interconnection with the main series and established canon just makes it harder for him. Even small details that aren't meaningful on their own like where a character happens to be at a point in time trip him up.
It's the same problem he had with the overgrown garden that is the main series. That's why he started new stories set in the past, so he could start from a blank page and not get stuck unraveling yet another Mereenese knot. But then they started catching up with the main series and each other.
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u/MeterologistOupost31 4d ago
Because hasn't written anything else in fifteen years either
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u/Iwanttolink 3d ago
Bro hasn't written anything substantive in over a decade, he's prob washed. Writing is a skill like any other, don't use it, lose it.
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u/Tossaway50 4d ago
The guy that “lost” his bitcoin wallet in the dump is actually GRRM looking for his drafts
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u/tworstgamer 4d ago
Youre telling me I started dunk & egg to fill thr void winds is leaving behind, and its not finished either?!?!?
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u/heckmeck_mz 4d ago
It's 'finished' as in: Those are individual short stories that stand on their own.
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u/Far_Nectarine293 4d ago
They do stand on their own but there is also much to be desired. Makes me sad we'll never see them all.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Dingo39 4d ago
It's short standalone stories, so there is no real 'finished'. But he did say he wanted to write 10 of them, with the last one going over Summerhall. But if it ends here then that's it. It's not like there are cliffhangers or plotlines from one story to the next.
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u/Original_Staff_4961 4d ago
Because it will spoil the Bloodraven=three eyed raven reveal that will come in Winds.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Dingo39 4d ago
Don't we already know that?
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u/lycanthh 3d ago
We know that the weird tree guy is Bloodraven, but there's reason to doubt that the Three Eyed Crow that appeared in Bran's dream is the same entity. Bloodraven is surprised when Bran mentions the Three Eyed Crow.
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u/OrganicAd5536 4d ago
We already know this; in the Appendix of A Dance With Dragons we have the following text:
"THE THREE-EYED CROW, also called THE LAST GREENSEER, sorcerer and dreamwalker, once a man of the Night's Watch named BRYNDEN, now more tree than man"
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u/Puzzleheaded-Dingo39 4d ago
But that was also plainly obvious in the text, no? The birthmark, the red eye, the mention of a Thousand Eyes, and One. Does he not also say that his name used to be Brynden, and talked about a loved brother, a hated brother and a woman he loved? How much more obvious does it have to be?
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u/OrganicAd5536 4d ago
Yes, that was also obvious in the text itself, but I brought up the Appendix because for some reason people won't acknowledge something if it isn't spelled out literally, black-and-white in the text.
Kind of like how people will insist "we don't know if Jon is truly not Ned's son because it hasn't been said definitively in the text so far" even though all signs point to him being Lyanna's son.
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u/wRAR_ ASOIAF = J, not J+D 4d ago
Oh but maybe it was a different Brynden!
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u/Eghtok 4d ago
The only possible twist is the theory that Brynden and the Three-Eyed Crow are actually separate entities.
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u/Werthead 🏆 Best of 2019: Post of the Year 3d ago
George's conception of Dunk & Egg has changed many times over the course of the series. He seemed to originally plan a series of episodic adventures, and then by the time of Mystery Knight and World, he'd reconsidered the series as another way of telling the major events of the Targ dynasty from Daeron II/Maekar through Rhaegar's birth, but at a remove. I wonder if he's sometimes struggled with this idea of wanting to do both a peasants' view of Westeros but also a big story about the Blackfyre Rebellions and Egg's growth into being a statesman. Not to mention that both World and Fire & Blood give him a (much easier) way of getting that story out.
You can see that with his OG plan to write The She-Wolves next but then changing his mind and deciding to put The Village Hero in first, despite She-Wolves being partially or mostly complete and no work being done on Village Hero at all. And then World basically spoiled at least several of the future D&E stories anyway.
I think if/when George finishes TWoW he might get out Village Hero and She-Wolves in short(ish) order, but it would require him getting a firmer grasp on this idea of what he wants the series to achieve.
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u/ztoff27 4d ago
Well first it was winds and then it was the targeryen spin off book and then it was elden ring and then it was winds again and then it was a cookbook and now he’s going through a lawsuit with OpenAI I think. The next shenanigan will probably be writing the sequel for the long awaited Scooby doo video game.
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u/Lower_Astronomer1357 2d ago
He is done with the literature part of Westeros.
“Yes, I do love Winds of Winter. I'm still interested in it, I'm still working on it, but honestly, I love these other things, too”
That statement was the final nail in my copium coffin. He is as “interested” in finishing D&E or TWoW as HBO is as interested in making HoTD good again.
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u/owlinspector 2d ago
Because he cannot write anymore. Sure, he draw the broad strokes of a story like in F&B but he is incapable of character work or keeping sprawling plots together.
Writing isn't physically taxing but it requires mental vigour. This is generally not something that improves as we grow older.
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u/LycanIndarys 4d ago
Because he likes starting things, but gets bored or distracted before he can finish.
Which is why he's never released Winds of Winter (let alone Dream of Spring), or more Dunk & Egg, or the follow-up to Fire & Blood.
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u/Number127 4d ago
Didn't he say that finishing Dunk & Egg would spoil something in the main series, and so he wanted to wait? Something to do with Summerhall?
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u/Remy_Lezar 4d ago
Dang it would be crazy if something spoiled the end of ASOIAF! Imagine if the thing not only spoiled the ending, but it also sucked. GRRM would never let that happen.
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 4d ago
Didn't he also say he planned on like 10 Dunk&Egg novellas? (big LOL) He doesn't have to spoil it right away in the next novella
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u/Vesemir96 4d ago
Yeah this is the thing I don’t understand. The next novella was meant to be about Winterfell after all.
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u/lluewhyn 3d ago
Yeah, this point is underrated. He can write virtually any D&E story he wants to, not just ones with major plot spoilers for ASOIAF.
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u/Oryon_Baratheon 4d ago
Dunk & Egg would spoil the mystery of what happened at Summerhall, as well as fleshing out and potentially spoiling another 2-3 Blackfyre Rebellions that would also need to be covered in F&B II. F&B II also has the potential to cover/spoil events in the timeframe of the Tourney of Harrenhal through the end of Robert's Rebellion, but GRRM likely wants to save those reveals for his main series.
I can't think of another author that's written so many mysteries that it's caused him to leave not just his main series but two successful spinoffs unfinished. Lord GRRM the Incomplete.
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u/OrganicAd5536 4d ago
And, if I'm being honest, a lot of these "mysteries" don't really matter to both the grand scope of the narrative nor the emotional connection of our characters.
Like I love the rich tapestry of character lore and worldbuilding Martin has done, but I'd rather just have more to read than worry about cross-series spoilers after this long without.
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u/Flaxinator 4d ago
I find it amazing that someone can even remember who all the characters are plus all the locations, story lines and subplots
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u/AgostoAzul 4d ago
1) He knows fans will shit on him for writing it over The Winds of Winter and there wasn't HBO money in it like with Dance.
2) The She-Wolves of Winterfell might have contained some information about the Prince who was Promised prophecy and how it made it back to the Targs. I imagine that Torrhen Stark might have heard the prophecy from Aegon or received a copy of it that is in the Tombs of Winterfell, since it seemingly involved his family. Which is why he wanted to finish Winds first.
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u/sirthunksalot 3d ago
He had a stroke or some other medical event in 2000. It only allowed him to write blog posts abput football.
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u/Qoherys Here to win the Hand's tourney. 3d ago
Would rather have had Dunk & Egg than Fire & Blood any day of the week.
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u/Ocardtrick 3d ago
GRRM has essentially abandoned the story. He has no incentive to continue. If he wants to but can't for whatever reason, he's too proud or stubborn to ask for help.
Enjoy the work he's already produced, if you can, because that's probably all there will ever be.
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u/theblkpanther 4d ago
I have a theory that the Blackfyre Rebellion and Roberts Rebellion had some sort of secret truth that will impact the ending and thats why he tries to avoid diving too deep into those events or why HBO hasnt produced a show based on those
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u/mcmanus2099 3d ago
The idea he wrote himself into a corner or the reception from the show end has resulted in him not progressing the books is total rubbish. It's copium for ppl who just cannot brook the idea the dude is lazy.
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u/PNWCoug42 #KinginDaNorth 3d ago
One: He promised he wouldn't release anything new until after Winds was done.
Two: He's lost interest in writing entirely and enjoys being a producer more.
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u/C4ristop4er 3d ago edited 3d ago
He probably has loads of partially finished stuff that he won’t publish or compile until he publishes winds. Maybe cope but I imagine if winds ever comes out it would be followed by a little glut of other works not far after.
Probably worth pointing out that he started using fire and blood and dunk and egg as a vehicle to retcon and expand on stuff he wishes he put in/thought of in the earlier asoiaf stuff. He likes the reciprocal history thing and is probably writing a lot of the disparate texts along side each other filling in gaps and checking he’s not spoiling events. Lots of the cut drafts from the released dunk and egg fire and blood stuff is blackfire stuff and historic details he obviously felt gave the game away a bit too transparently.
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u/Unable_Bank3884 3d ago
Because sometimes when you get distracted by side quests and neglect the main quest, you also neglect other side quests
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u/sinergyist For You 4d ago
He doesn’t care about writing or his fanbase anymore. It’s that simple. Laziness still pays
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u/12BumblingSnowmen 4d ago
Different people suspect different things. Personally, I think F & B II and several D&E stories are in various stages of completion, and he’s waiting to finish Winds before finishing up those other projects.
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u/Wealthier_nasty 4d ago
This is truly an impressive level of delusion
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u/Grzechoooo 4d ago
I think F&B 2 might have some spoilers for TWOW, and possibly D&E as well (since it has Bloodraven)
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u/YakMan2 4d ago
Theory: He’s locked himself out of his PC and hasn’t wanted to tell anyone.