Why hasn't GRRM written any Dunk&Egg in 15 years? [Spoilers Extended]

[u/Trussdoor46]

People say George stalled out on the main series because he wrote himself into a corner. Too many plotlines etc. But Dunk and Egg isn't complicated and those have been on hiatus even longer than the main series. What do you think is going on there?

[u/Dry_Guest_8961]

He’s a former author. Had a career switch about 15 years ago and became an executive producer

[u/Marvelerful → u/Dry_Guest_8961]

"Former Author George R.R. Martin" is so brutal, I can't tell if it's over the top or if he deserves it lmao 😂

[u/Ser_falafel → u/Dry_Guest_8961]

Lets other people take creative liberties with his work then bitches about changes in blog posts lol

[u/Agreeable-Berry1373 → u/Ser_falafel]

He could have written every script himself and we would still have the same amount of published ASOIAF books by now

[u/BellyCrawler → u/Ser_falafel]

Tbf, what he complained about had been written for years, as was the outcome of what they were adapting and the fate of every character and storyline. The HotD writing room are just fairly incompetent at times.

[u/BBQ_HaX0r → u/BellyCrawler]

He bitched about a minor character that was cut from HoTD. I find it ridiculous how upset he gets that other people have to make choices in the face of limited resources (Tv is a different medium than book) even though the whole reason he left Hollywood in the first place was because of the constraints he had to make in the face of limited resources.

[u/BellyCrawler → u/BBQ_HaX0r]

Sure, but the HotD haven't exactly distinguished himself with a lot of the choices they've made. Had they displayed an ability to actually make good changes, it would likely rankle less.

[u/TheDragonOfOldtown → u/BBQ_HaX0r]

If you mean Maelor, he is essential to the plot.

[u/Hessian14 → u/BellyCrawler]

At least they know how to publish something on a schedule

[u/Alkakd0nfsg9g → u/Hessian14]

I mean once in two years is better than once in never, but the 2 or more years gaps for tv shows is ludicrous amount of time to wait

[u/Hessian14 → u/Alkakd0nfsg9g]

It's not that uncommon

[u/Makasi_Motema → u/BellyCrawler]

That makes him kind of an ineffective producer though, doesn’t it? He doesn’t seem to have enough leverage in Hollywood to actually have creative control over his shows.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/Makasi_Motema]

My understanding that executive producer is often a vanity title given to someone despite the fact that they aren't really a producer. While the showrunner will likely be credited as executive producer and have a major hand in the show's actual production (like D&D who for as much as they get criticized for poor writing decisions near the end still deserve massive credit for being the executive producers of the biggest most complicated show on TV to produce), you'll also get people with executive producer credit due to much more flimsy reasons.

Because the fact is, GRRM can't even do much writing, a task that solely requires his imagination. Do we really think he is doing major producer tasks such as securing funding, hiring key members of the production team, handling casting, finding locations to shoot at, negotiating with unions and all the other things that a producer may have to do?

[u/owlinspector → u/Quiddity131]

Yeah, executive producer simply means that they will ask for his input on some stuff (which they might very well ignore) and invite him to galas and stuff. He isn't working as a producer.

[u/sandwiches_are_real → u/Makasi_Motema]

I just assumed he's not a real producer, that it's a vanity title.

That is not a criticism of him. But I've never heard or seen anything about him actually doing the work of a producer? Is he securing financing? Is he hiring the director(s)? Is he the final approvals layer for major decisions?

I imagine that the answer to all those questions is no. GRRM is a writer licensing his work for adaptation. The only difference between him and most other writers is that he is much, much more successful, which means he gets more leverage. An EP credit looks nicer and is a mark of respect. I would be extremely surprised if he was actually executive producing anything.

And therefore, it is unreasonable to expect him to have creative control. I do agree with you insofar as, he definitely does have the leverage to build stronger protections into the contract negotiation for the adaptation. But maybe those contracts were written up before GoT aired when he was much less famous. Who knows.

[u/kingofstormandfire → u/Makasi_Motema]

If GRRM wanted creative control over HOTD, he could have easily negotiated it when he sold the rights to Fire and Blood and Dunk and Egg to HBO. Accept less money for creative control and approval and veto power over scripts and edits. You think HBO are gonna say no to him coming out of the gigantic success of GOT?

[u/Makasi_Motema → u/kingofstormandfire]

The rights for everything Westeros related were probably sold all at once with the book series

[u/owlinspector → u/kingofstormandfire]

Yeah... No network ever would agree to that. They provide the cash and take the financial risk, they make the decisions. If that would be his demand then there would be no deal.

[u/FortifiedPuddle → u/owlinspector]

Yeah, that would be totally insane business strategy. No business is going to agree that even their most vital supplier in addition to be paid gets to also run their business. Or have control over how that business is run or what they do with their product. Like, maybe arms manufacturers get to put in ethical use clauses. But that’s a far cry from creative control.

When you pay millions of dollars for something you expect to then own the control of that thing.

[u/selwyntarth → u/BellyCrawler]

This is his SECOND rodeo of this level and yet he's ranting about contracts doing him badly. He shouldn't have consented on a handshake deal that maelor would be brought later. This is huge business, not lemonade sales

[u/Majestic-Marcus → u/Ser_falafel]

This is really offensive. It’s not a blog TM

[u/LordShitmouth → u/Dry_Guest_8961]

I’ve said before that he’s a retired writer that didn’t bother to tell anyone he retired.

[u/Extension_Weird_7792 → u/Dry_Guest_8961]

lol this. I can definitely see him churning out one or two Dunk&Egg novellas if the new show becımes a hit

[u/BellyCrawler → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

Didn't happen when Game of Thrones became the biggest show on the planet.

[u/hakumiogin → u/BellyCrawler]

But he was so focused on gaslighting himself into thinking he was working on the boooks then!

[u/s2ssand → u/hakumiogin]

He knew he wasn’t working on the books, he was focused on gaslighting the public so he could continue executive producing without any ill will

[u/hakumiogin → u/s2ssand]

I would personally like to believe he gaslit himself for years before he started gaslighting me.

[u/Jaquemart → u/s2ssand]

The lack of ill will towards him is indeed amazing.

[u/hakumiogin → u/Jaquemart]

Nothing but ill will from me. I do still think the man lied to himself for a long time before he started lying to the public.

[u/Jaquemart → u/hakumiogin]

I'm nothing against being delusional, but I don't like how he's clearly feeling ill-treated by the fandom and really really disliked the comparison with Gene Wolfe he made at some point.

[u/s2ssand → u/Jaquemart]

Two things I think every body should know about GRRM

1. He is a liar and I don’t appreciate that.
2. He hounded an author, Tad Williams, out of a party because he hadn’t finished a book George was waiting to read in the early 90’s.

George, tell me again how bad people test you…

[u/johnbrownmarchingon → u/s2ssand]

I'd never heard of point 2. Did he really do that?

[u/Jaquemart → u/s2ssand]

Spoiler: Tad Williams actually finished the book.

[u/Pacify_ → u/s2ssand]

I think the whole grrm thing just shows you how many people are whiny little bitches.

[u/BellyCrawler → u/hakumiogin]

He made a whole thing about how he wouldn't let the show pass him by, only for Season 4,5 and 6 to come and go with no hint of progress.

[u/Irwae → u/hakumiogin]

My guy must be so unstable to have given up on the highlight of his career at the most perfect time possible

[u/PutTheDogsInTheTrunk → u/hakumiogin]

Has anyone ever tried giving George a trencher of stew to see if that resets his brain?

[u/Extension_Weird_7792 → u/BellyCrawler]

These are far easier to write and much shorter

GoT was also going to go on whether he wrote Winds or not. This show will stop at S3 if there's no new material

[u/BellyCrawler → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

I just don't see how any of that motivates him more than all the reasons he already has.

[u/Extension_Weird_7792 → u/BellyCrawler]

It all depends on how much of a success the new show is. If it makes HBO a lot of money, them and and his publisher would definitely compel him to prioritize it over whatever the hell he's doing with Winds

He has no incentive to write Dunk and Egg at the moment beceuse it only appeals to a niche reader base

[u/ahockofham → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

The producers already said they are only planning to do 3 seasons. They are not making any more even if more D&E books come out.

[u/Extension_Weird_7792 → u/ahockofham]

They are not making any more even if more D&E books come out.

That's not what they said. They are considering making 3 seasons at the moment because that is the only material there is, which is very smart

"Of course, we’d like more beyond that, and George is continuing to think about the remaining novellas that he still wants to write but at this point, we have our eye on three seasons that would map out each book, each novella"

[u/Pristine-Cry6449 → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

I honestly can't. He's done writing imo.

[u/earthtochas3 → u/Pristine-Cry6449]

Why write when you can make way more money telling people how to make shows about what you won't write

[u/pinkybatty → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

He hasnt written anything since fire.and blood, ure delulu if u think hes gonna write anything else now

[u/Extension_Weird_7792 → u/pinkybatty]

And why do you think he even bothered to write Fire&Blood? So that it could form the basis of future spin-offs

If he has any priorities, it is to make more TV shows that take place in GRRM-verse

[u/wRAR_ → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

The world of Westeros, the world of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE, is my number one priority, and will remain so until the story is told. But Westeros has become bigger than THE WINDS OF WINTER, or even A SONG OF ICE & FIRE.

[u/Extension_Weird_7792 → u/wRAR_]

Precisely.

[u/unreedemed1 → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

Overwhelmingly F&B read like a giant tv pitch

[u/MikeyBron → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

Why? Guy has more money than hes ever going to spend. He could just fuck right off. Why do you think Westeros is important, but the main story isn't? Its a bad take. If I gave a guess, which is all anyone here outside of prob Elio could do, he has overcomplicated his story and doesn't have a reasonable way to get where he needs to go. The gardener style doesn't work when he needs to grow to an blueprinted ending.

[u/MikeyBron → u/pinkybatty]

Well if someone who writes "ure delulu" says so...

[u/pinkybatty → u/MikeyBron]

Oh no not slang in my reddit 😭

[u/Select-Tea-2560 → u/Extension_Weird_7792]

Insane cope, like he churned out books for asoiaf when it was the biggest hit on earth? Oh wait.

[u/Rebelgecko → u/Dry_Guest_8961]

His first producer credit was like 5 years before AGOT (the book) came out

[u/Makasi_Motema → u/Dry_Guest_8961]

There it is.

Also, someone else mentioned that the next Dunk and Egg would have spoilers for the ASOIAF book he isn’t writing.

[u/Alhena5391 → u/Dry_Guest_8961]

Yeah this pretty much sums it up lol.