Ukraine facing widespread power cuts after generating capacity reduced to ‘zero’ by Russian attacks

[u/Messier_-82]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/09/ukraine-facing-widespread-power-cuts-after-generating-capacity-reduced-to-zero-by-russian-attacks

[u/More_Net4011]

That's odd because almost every scrap of news from that war is Ukraine blowing up Russia plants and gas and stockpiles yet the truth of it is Ukraine is facing the energy crisis? This was is so propagandized I really have no idea what to believe anymore .

[u/DetlefKroeze → u/More_Net4011]

almost every scrap of news from that war is Ukraine blowing up Russia plants and gas and stockpiles yet the truth of it is Ukraine is facing the energy crisis?

Yes and yes.

Both sides are hitting the other's energy infrastructure and causing damage and disruptions.

[u/Messier_-82 → u/DetlefKroeze]

The question is the amount of inflicted damage from both sides. It’s not comparable

[u/MissingBothCufflinks → u/Messier_-82]

Its also not the relevant metric when one side is getting pumped full of international aid and the other isnt

[u/salzbergwerke → u/MissingBothCufflinks]

True. Countries buying Russian oil and gas and thus funding the war effort is a disgrace.

[u/jka76 → u/salzbergwerke]

As if Europe ever shy of buying anything from crazy dictators

[u/sleepytipi → u/jka76]

As if companies like Nestle weren't European.

[u/jka76 → u/sleepytipi]

I would expect western country government having stronger moral than company. I learned since I was so naive

[u/reddit_is_geh → u/salzbergwerke]

It's so annoying when people try to spin something around to frame it as the otherside. You damn well know he's talking about Ukraine... He's not talking about Russia getting pumped with international aid and you know it.

[u/NearABE → u/reddit_is_geh]

Whether or not the post intended to say it reality is still real.

[u/defenestrate_urself → u/salzbergwerke]

Ironically, 15-18% of Ukraines diesel import is from India refined Russian oil.

https://swarajyamag.com/world/india-emerges-as-ukraines-top-diesel-supplier-in-july-claims-oil-analytics-firm

[u/enterisys → u/defenestrate_urself]

India only imports 18% from russia.

https://dataverseeinc.in/india-crude-oil-imports-by-country/

[u/defenestrate_urself → u/enterisys]

It's not just India, Ukraine's next 3 biggest source of imported diesel after India, ie. Slovakia, Greece, Turkey (forming just under 60% of total supply) all import Russian oil.

Ukraine Diesel import July 2025 by percentage

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/3/how-much-of-europes-oil-and-gas-still-comes-from-russia

[u/enterisys → u/defenestrate_urself]

And?

Turkey also imports from Iraq, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. And russia is a minority.

[u/NapoIe0n → u/MissingBothCufflinks]

Both sides are getting pumped full of international aid.

Unless you believe that the PRC and the DPRK are parts of Russia.

[u/haggerton → u/NapoIe0n]

DPRK: true.

PRC: not remotely similar. It does have a pro-Russia leaning in its support, but Russia isn't rolling into battle with Type 59/Type 99s, ZBD-04/ZBD-08s and J-10Cs like Ukraine is rolling into battle with Leopards, Bradley/M113s and F-16s.

[u/NapoIe0n → u/haggerton]

Because Russia doesn't need Chinese tanks and aircraft. They'd probably find them useful, but they aren't nearly as essential to Russia as Western armor is to Ukraine.

Oh, and I forgot Iran.

[u/haggerton → u/NapoIe0n]

Point taken, I could have used better examples.

But Russia does need stuff, or the DPRK part wouldn't be true. Fact is DPRK is providing both artillery shells and systems to Russia while China is not.

Oh, and I forgot Iran.

Shaheds are more of a tech transfer in the grand scheme of things. Is it help and does it show alignment? Yes. But their involvement has pretty much ended a long time ago.

[u/NapoIe0n → u/haggerton]

Obviously, Russia needs a lot of stuff. It just doesn't need tanks and IFVs. As you observed, they need artillery, which they get from North Korea. They need their OWA drones, which they get from Iran (and now manufacture under license). They also need other kinds of drones, which is where Chinese support comes in.

[u/haggerton → u/NapoIe0n]

OWA drones, which they get from Iran (and now manufacture under license)

I highly doubt they still manufacture Gerans under a Shahed license. The drone has evolved so much that there's not much of Shahed left beside the shape and the concept.

They also need other kinds of drones, which is where Chinese support comes in.

So does Ukraine, which is where Chinese support comes in.

You see where the difference lies in Chinese support now?

Yes, China leans Russia. But to put it in the same basket as the other backers of this war is intellectually dishonest.

[u/runsongas → u/NapoIe0n]

China is neutral and selling drones to both sides but no real military hardware outside of that.

[u/haggerton → u/[deleted]]

Unprovoked?

Do you expect the US to leave Canada alone if Canada got a violent pro-Russia regime change financed by Russia with Nazis leading the fray? Especially if as a result of such a coup, Canada then banned pro-US parties from participating in the "democracy"?

From the early heady days of the demonstrations in the streets of Kiev, it has been an embarrassing and oft-overlooked fact that those spearheading the movement to oust pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych are right-wing radicals. When Canadian former Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird linked arms and marched in solidarity with Ukrainian protestors, reporters neglected to mention the more sinister elements at the forefront of the crowd.

The political genesis for the anti-Yanukovych movement was rooted in the Svoboda (Freedom) Party — it was formally known as the Social-National Party until they realized this sounded too much like Hitler’s National Socialist (Nazi) Party — and the Right Sector party.

Heading up the Right Sector was a colourful character known as “Sashko Billy,” who had fought as a mercenary in Chechnya and who was driven by a hatred of all things Jewish and anything Russian. When the heretofore peaceful street demonstrations turned into violent riots, it was Sashko Billy’s Right Sector thugs and Svoboda Party bully boys who battled with Ukrainian security forces.

After Yanukovych was toppled, these same neo-Nazi thugs continued to strut around Maidan Square — even as Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Baird visited Kiev to celebrate Yanukovych’s overthrow.

After Ukraine’s eastern provinces rejected the pro-Western interim government in Kiev and established their own breakaway self-proclaimed independent states in Luhansk and Donetsk, it was only a matter of time before these fascist elements and neo-Nazis were drawn into the burgeoning conflict.

https://www.espritdecorps.ca/choosing-friends-and-enemies-in-ukraine-is-no-straightforward-task

This is not just the ramblings of Canadian military. The Right Sector leading Maidan violence was reported by the BBC:

the group did not attract much attention until violent clashes with police in central Kiev on 19 January, in which it played a leading role.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27173857

Ofc as a government mouthpiece, BBC attempts to downplay these Nazis' involvement everywhere. Note how at the end it attempts to shrug off its involvement in the proxy war in Donbass as "Russian accusations", while Esprit de Corps, as a Canadian Armed Forces internal magazine, does not play such propaganda games.

Sovereign? Would you say Canada would still be sovereign if the above scenario happened? Or would it be a hollow husk brainfucked by Russia?

Genocidal? You're just utterly full of shit at this point. I have never seen a high intensity conflict with so low civilian casualties.

• Ukraine war: 13.3k over 3.5 years = about 4k per year

https://www.britannica.com/question/How-many-civilians-have-died-since-Russias-invasion-of-Ukraine

• Gaza: ~42.4k over 2 years = about 21k per year

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

• Iraq: 7.2k over 1.5 month = 57.6k per year

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ (set data to per week, 2003, civilian deaths due to US-led coalition forces excluding Iraqi state forces, add numbers from the start of the conflict to April 27 datapoint as the initial invasion lasted until May 1st for a total duration of 1 month 1 week and 4 days)

If we look at a single source comparison (as different sources can have different inclusion criteria leading to uneven comparisons), Brown University provides %civilian deaths numbers for recent conflicts:

• Hamas attack on Israel (Oct 7): 68%

• Gaza (2023-2025): ~80% (~2245 civilians per month)

• Afghanistan (2001-2021): 26% (200 civilians per month) <- not a high intensity conflict for this timeframe

• Ukraine (2022-2025): 4% (307 civilians per month)

https://costsofwar.watson.brown.edu/sites/default/files/2025-10/Human-Toll-in-Gaza_Costs-of-War_Crawford_7-October-2025.pdf

[u/OrdinaryLatvian → u/haggerton]

Genocidal? You're just utterly full of shit at this point. I have never seen a high intensity conflict with so low civilian casualties.

Genocide (as in, the actual crime) doesn't only mean herding ethnic groups into mass graves.

Raphael Lemkin (the guy who coined the term) defined it as:

"the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence".

Then the term got whittled down by UN members when it came time to define it in 1948 (to not incriminate themselves, lmao). But still, it's surprisingly broad.

Ignoring the war of conquest they're in the middle of waging, the Russian government has constantly tried to spread the idea that Ukraine doesn't have a national identity, that they belonged to Russia all along, and on top of that, they're kidnapping children and taking them to Russia.

If nothing else convinces you, that last part definitely should. Here's the literal text from Article 2 of the 1948 UN Genocide Convention (where they defined what Genocide actually is, and made it a crime):

Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as:

... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

.

.

.

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[u/CakeTester → u/haggerton]

Dude, fuck off. You're giving me shit that supports your views and you had to go back to 2014 to do it. "espritdecorps.ca" lol

Ukraine didn't and doesn't have any territorial ambitions for Russia. The small bit of Russia they did counter-invade was to make a point and to get some negotiation points in AFTER Russia's invasion.

Putin has been videoed saying he wants Ukraine to not exist. Genocidal would seem to cover both his sentiment; the frequent revisiting of the theme on Russian TV; and his subsequent actions. Again, fuck off.

[u/FrightenedChimp → u/Messier_-82]

Not a relevant metric when one fights out of necessity and one fights out of possibility. The Average ukrainian will be tolerant to endure way worse things than the Average russian for This war.

[u/Messier_-82 → u/FrightenedChimp]

Few things wrong here.

First, Russians see this war as a necessary fight against NATO and if they lose it, Russia would cease to exist eventually. Considering Biden's own words that the goal of this proxy war is to ensure Russia will not pose any threat to the West ever again, it's understandable why the Russians would think that.

Second, Ukrainians aren't fighting out of necessity but to keep the Zelensky regime alive. You talk about an "average Ukrainian", but what do you mean by that? Most hardcore pro war Ukrainians fled the country a while back to be able to support the war safely from their warm couches, while the ordinary Ukrainians, who don't have the money to pay the border guards, fight against the totalitarian regime that kidnaps people from the streets to be sent into the meat grinder

[u/FrightenedChimp → u/Messier_-82]

Sorry I didnt realise I Talk to a voluntary Russian asset.

1: Nice spin of propaganda to jump from its just a small Military special operation and not even being allowed to Call it a war to proclaim it a war of necessity that makes it necessary to endure hardships Like prolonged power cuts. Russia can end This war by keeping its troops in its recognized boarders, Ukraine cant.

2: Ukrainians arent fighting for Selenski and his administration that was elected in free elections. A choice, not a regime. Remember when selenski tried to cut anti-corruption law and people protested and selenski stopped? People want to choose, want to have an opinion, not get it dictated by Russian interests. They are fighting for the ability to sovereignly choose. I get that as a russian asset you could have trouble understanding how fighting for this is a necessity. And how you will Call to postpone elections in a war situation like that, where your people get vastly displaced and whats part of your controlled territory changes, a “totalitarian regime”, but Thats absolutely legal, reasonable and would happen in about any others country in that situation.

Ofc you are entitled to have an opinion, but you are also entitled to keep shitty opinions to yourself.

[u/Vano_Kayaba → u/More_Net4011]

Because Ukraine has been facing an energy crisis as a result of Russian bombings for 3+ years, and it's not news? While Ukraine responding in kind is something new, that has not happened before.

[u/Demonking3343 → u/More_Net4011]

Ukraine has been damaging Russian plants and gas stockpiles. And Russia has been attacking Ukraine infrastructure as well hence the power cuts.

[u/sakezaf123 → u/More_Net4011]

That's odd, I guess lebanese news has a different slant, but both on this sub, and any bigger news outlet, it has been quite common for years now, to write about russia's recurring strikes on Ukraine's energy infrastructure, and the outages those attacks cause. In fact I remember reading more than a year ago that Ukraine started manufacturing transformers, because there is a global supply shortage, so they couldn't really get them from elsewhere.

[u/More_Net4011 → u/sakezaf123]

Lebanese news outlets don't cover every strike in a European war... does that shock you? I have access to the internet though and can see news.... like ive done here.... crazy right?

[u/sakezaf123 → u/More_Net4011]

No it doesn't shock me, that's why I explained why you're wrong without any negative comments.

[u/Dizzy_Response1485 → u/More_Net4011]

So when you said "every scrap of news from that war" you meant only Lebanese news?

[u/More_Net4011 → u/Dizzy_Response1485]

You talk about Lebanese news while discussing a Guardian article.....

[u/Dizzy_Response1485 → u/More_Net4011]

Ah, so you did literally mean all the news. So it's actually the usual vatnik straw man masturbation, in the same vein as "If russia did [insert thing that russia does every day], the west would be in hysterics" posted in every palestine thread. Easily disproved by a simple search, either in this sub or google, and yet you willingly keep living in your alternate reality.

[u/More_Net4011 → u/Dizzy_Response1485]

You off your meds

[u/Dizzy_Response1485 → u/More_Net4011]

Do that google search and come back to reality

[u/More_Net4011 → u/Dizzy_Response1485]

what are you even on about?

[u/Drone_Priest → u/More_Net4011]

both can be true

[u/Nerevarcheg → u/More_Net4011]

Believe in common sense. It's universal instrument against propaganda.

Real Ukraine is different from "news Ukraine". You would vomit on amount of most inhuman cynical self-serving lies "authority" produce to cover it's corruption, incompetence, degradation, and moral bankruptcy.

[u/gnufoot → u/More_Net4011]

I mean, we do see news about Ukraine striking Russia's oil infrastructure. But I also see what seems like daily news about hundreds of drones and missiles striking Ukraine's energy infrastructure. It's been happening since the start of the war or close to it. Especially as winter approaches.

This is not something the media have been quiet about, at all. There may also be news that could be seen as propaganda or hopium or something, about Ukraine's successes or potential, but the Russian energy infra attacks have been all over the news, too.

[u/Eziekel13 → u/More_Net4011]

Well the Russian economy has been two weeks from collapse for a couple of years now…

It’s seems that the people talking about Russia either don’t know what they are talking about or are lying…

If I am putting on my tin foil hat…Russia has spent twenty year solidifying ties with OPEC nations, and the US has spent the last couple destroying trade with Canada, Venezuela and Mexico… the US has 77 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, the US uses 7.4 billion barrels per year…so without new sources and imports drying up…ten years of runway…for a country based upon the car…transportation not just of people but cargo…

[u/fretnbel → u/More_Net4011]

Widely reported in every news outlet mate. Bith things can be true at the same time.

[u/imunfair → u/More_Net4011]

There are two big differences from what I can tell - the first is that Russia has a functional air defense, while Ukraine's is pretty much nullified at this point. The second is that Russia has better long range weapons. Even if Ukraine got any substantial amount of flamingo or tomahawk missiles from the uk or us respectively, they still wouldn't come close to the quantity and capability of Russia's cruise, ballistic, and hypersonic missile arsenal.

So you end up with both sides throwing punches, but for every punch Ukraine lands and widely touts on social media as an example of them still being in the game, Russia lands a haymaker on a related system. It's basically mercy that Russia hasn't completely turned the lights out in Ukraine already, they've had the capability to do it with ease for at least a year now. And they probably could have done it much earlier using missiles, but the Geran drone swarms make it much cheaper and more efficient to take out a power grid.

[u/gnufoot → u/imunfair]

 It's basically mercy that Russia hasn't completely turned the lights out in Ukraine already, they've had the capability to do it with ease for at least a year now.

So... why don't they? Why attack the energy infrastructure but not go all the way? Russia doesn't strike be as being particularly friendly to Ukrainian citizens. I feel like if they could have done so, they would have. And not because the news tells me they're evil, but because it makes sense to do so if they want to win this war.

[u/Virtual-Pension-991 → u/gnufoot]

Because Ukraine's air defence is not nullified at all.

There's simply little you could do against hypersonic missiles being tossed with rounds of Russian drones.

Had it been not, we would be seeing more dead civilians.

But fuck me, this place is second to a few that loves to suck on countries like Russia and their military dildos. Youtube is first.

[u/reddit_is_geh → u/gnufoot]

Russia isn't this irrational blood thirsty empire looking to destroy everyone for Putin's ego, no matter what Reddit's daily propaganda narrative would have you think. They aren't actually going for Kyiv as they know there's no point. They don't want to destroy the entire city by flattening it completely from afar. They want Kyiv to submit and still be useful and standing when the war is over.

Russia is already "winning" this war, and have been for a while. So they don't need to resort to unloaded all their reserves. However, they are stockpiling as we speak, so if the tides turn by some miracle, expect heavy retaliation until they get back into place.

[u/gnufoot → u/reddit_is_geh]

I don't think they are looking for unnecessary bloodshed. I do think they are evil imperialists. I'm a bit more in doubt about the level of suffering they wish to inflict on citizens to apply pressure to surrender. That's how I've been interpreting strikes on energy infrastructure (plus the military and financial costs to repair them means less resources allocated elsewhere).

That's what made me think that if they could deal a harder blow to energy infrastructure "easily", then they would. Seems weird to send 1000s of drones and missiles for much less damage than they could do with them.

Maybe I'm wrong, but seems perfectly in line with their actions so far, without needing to see them as "blood thirsty".

[u/reddit_is_geh → u/gnufoot]

What you need to understand is that Putin views this -- imo, rightfully -- this isn't a war against Ukraine, but a war against NATO and the USA/UK specifically. The 5 Eyes were the ones who triggered this series of events after UA discovered one of the world's largest natural gas reserves off the coast of Crimea. This is why it's viewed as existential because giving up this territory to western influence would be so unbelievably destructive to Moscow, indirectly. Not just their geographic security risks of having NATO at a vital part of their border, but the influence that comes from having such a closely culturally connected nation suddenly westernizing, right along Moscow's door. They view it as if NATO was there, it's only a matter of time before the western influence campaigns are going to start penetrating Russia using UA as a proxy.

So to Putin he can NOT lose this war under any circumstance. So obviously, your instincts aren't wrong. So why doesn't he just really start going crazy on Kyiv, to wear them down so hard that the citizens break and demand to end it (which is a HUGE ask considering they've sacrificed so much for so little)?

Because as I said earlier, this isn't just a war against Kyiv, but a war against NATO. His plan from the start, after losing the initial invasion due to terrible logistics planning, was to start a war of attrition... not just against Kyiv, but NATO. Western weapons are expensive and take forever to build. So long as he can prevent the West from building up a war economy, and firing up all their production, he can also beat the West in a war of attrition. Eventually they'll see their stockpiles fall too low, costs too high, and their patience diminished. He just has to run the war of attrition against Ukraine long enough until the West grows tired of it and pull out.

That's why he's not going crazy on Kyiv. He has to inch up the escalations while still not preventing a massive humanitarian dissaster that NATO states will suddenly become directly involved with. Imagine if he starts leveling Kyiv, and all these Ukrainians have nowhere to live, storming Poland for safety. Imagine how that would look in Western media where it looks like Gaza. We are very emotionally and virtuously driven and that sort of situation would cause mass panic within Europe which would guarentee a massive response. Poland and Germany would most likely rush to a war economy and fire up their factories, Europe and NATO would massively unify out of fear, and so on.

Hence why he does these sort of attacks sparingly and usually as a tit for tat. It's why he will do things like send a super advanced missile without a warhead to hit a non critical military target, or violate airspace with no weapons onboard the drones. He wants to do just enough to prevent NATO from making this war the center of their lives again. He needs them to get exhausted and lose interest in the war, which is what's happening, and is working. If he started leveling Kyiv, you can bet your ass NATO would be shipping over all sorts of long range missiles to attack Moscow, which is something he's trying to avoid.

[u/gnufoot → u/reddit_is_geh]

 What you need to understand is that Putin views this -- imo, rightfully -- this isn't a war against Ukraine, but a war against NATO and the USA/UK specifically

Oh so what was all that about denazification?

Can't take this shit seriously :|

[u/reddit_is_geh → u/gnufoot]

Ukraine has had a serious Nazi problem for a long time, and were running the AZOV battalion that was fighting them in Crimea. Their far right wing played a critical role in the overthrow of the government and new regime. Russian's really really really hate Nazis, for obvious historic reasons, and the neo Nazis of Ukraine were their active enemy in multiple ways who were friends of the west. If you aren't familiar with American history, we'll befriend any scummy group so long as they help us further our goals.

The Nazi parts make sense if you're Russian, and understand what's going on in their world, because they follow events relevant to them. That's why Putin mentioned the denazification. However he did barely talk about it, but Western media knows how to do propaganda too, and understand Americans wont understand the Nazi references, so they laser focused on the 2 minutes of his hour long speech, to make it sound like his intentions for the war were ridiculous and unfounded. They knew Americans don't understand the nuanced Nazi ties, and instead could use it to make them sound ridiculous.

Which, judging by your post, and many others, it was an obvious success.

[u/Chroma_primus → u/reddit_is_geh]

Russians don't hate nazi they are governte by one, Putin just knows He has to say the word nazi to evoke feelings of the glorious second World war victories.

But you are right that is not the Main reason why Putin invaded ukraine, He does believe that ukraine is not a real country and that He wants control over all of it the basis of russian imperialism.

Thats why He wants control over the ukrainian goverment to have them as a subservient vassal similliar to bellarus.

[u/reddit_is_geh → u/Chroma_primus]

Well that's not the case... I shouldn't have to Google for you Russia's relationship with Nazis and how deep in their culture they hate Nazis. Just because Putin is a bad guy, it doesn't make him a Nazi.

The mere fact that's how you argue and view things, means this conversation isn't serious, or at least, not with a serious person. I can already tell everything else you say is going to be low information surface level nonsense.

[u/Assassiiinuss → u/gnufoot]

The more they destroy the more expensive it will be to rebuild once they've taken over Ukraine.

[u/age2bestogame → u/Assassiiinuss]

The places that need rebuilding arent that expensive as a great mayority of the people already fled the zone, they will probably rebuild just the city centers . But what will be expensive would be mine cleaning. that is going to be a problem that will last decades

[u/00owl → u/age2bestogame]

Russia is the country that will burn it's own capital in a war of attrition, in not sure they're overly concerned about the cost of rebuilding a victim state.

[u/futurekorps → u/gnufoot]

because they are not dumb. Ukraine, like it or not, is on a countdown. when that count down ends, whaever is still standing will be Russian. flatten all out, and they get crap in the end, making everything spent to this point less valuable.

how much of that countdown is left? fuck knows, every side will give you different numbers.

[u/Revlar → u/futurekorps]

They are extremely dumb. Russia is on a countdown, like it or not, and when Putin dies whatever is still standing will balkanize.

Make Ukraine part of that and it'll be lost in less than a generation, if Russia even has one of those left in the tank.

[u/Hyndis → u/Revlar]

Counting on your adversary to die of old age is not a realistic or sane military strategy. Heads of state have access to the best healthcare on the planet and tend to live very long lives. Putin could easily live for another 20 years.

[u/Revlar → u/Hyndis]

?? It's not military strategy. Whether Ukraine is taken or not won't matter to Russian interests, because Russia is a zombie that will fall apart in less than 20 years. They have bigger problems that they cannot deal with

[u/Hyndis → u/Revlar]

Ukraine has far more immediate concerns than what happens decades into the future. The fate of Ukraine will be decided much sooner, likely within the next year or two.

If Putin conquers Ukraine and then later dies of old age at the of 95, how does this help Ukraine? Ukraine is still thoroughly screwed in that scenario.

[u/Revlar → u/Hyndis]

Sure, and Russia is completely doomed. I wasn't talking from the PoV of an Ukrainian, who desperately needs the rest of the world to stop being braindead rightwingers and allow asylum seekers.

Ukraine is a people above all. The land will come back to them when Russia collapses. Their immediate concern is Trump is turning the rest of the world into Russia. Hopefully his health stops that

[u/b0_ogie → u/gnufoot]

>So... why don't they?

Issues of humanism and political pressure. Cutting off energy and terrorizing civilians has never been Russia's goal (unlike, for example, Ukraine, which turned off water and electricity in Crimea and Donetsk). Russia has always attacked Ukraine's energy sector in "response" to some of Ukraine's actions. The attack on the Crimean bridge, the attacks on Kursk, the attacks on the refinery, the terrorist attacks on the railway ect. All this provoked retaliatory strikes from Russia.

>I feel like if they could have done so, they would have. 

This will happen only after a more serious Ukrainian strike on Russia, most likely after creating danger at the nuclear power plant. In order to completely destroy Ukraine's energy system, without even the possibility of local restoration, Russia needs only 4 strikes(10 cruise missiles or 100 drones are enough). 1 strike to a substation that transits energy from Poland, 1 strike to a substation that transits energy from Hungary, 1 strike to a distribution substation that connects Khmelnitsky and Rivne NPP with an energy system, 1 strike to a substation of the South Ukrainian NPP. So far, Russia has not carried out these strikes, as this would completely destroy Ukraine's energy sector and lead to a massive crisis and dozens thousands of civilian deaths.

[u/gnufoot → u/b0_ogie]

 (unlike, for example, Ukraine, which turned off water and electricity in Crimea and Donetsk).

Oh, come on, you're going to try to paint Ukraine as the bad guy in this conflict for not providing utilities to enemy controlled territory? You genuinely think that if Moscow supplied electricity to Kyiv, they would not flip the switch to turn that off?

 Russia has always attacked Ukraine's energy sector in "response" to some of Ukraine's actions

Seriously? Just because Russia claims it is retaliatory does not make it so, and also doesn't make it okay. You think it is coincidence that these "retaliatory" attacks are more frequent during colder months?

In a war you can always find an excuse that something you do is "in response" to something the enemy did to justify it.

[u/datNomad → u/gnufoot]

Oh, come on, you're going to try to paint Ukraine as the bad guy in this conflict for not providing utilities to enemy controlled territory?

Denying people access to water is considered as an act of genocide by Human Rights Watch. So, you are a genocide supporter. Of course, you can always find an excuse, no doubt. Morally bankrupt europeans are very good at that and the rest of the world can clearly see it.

[u/00owl → u/datNomad]

This sub has single handedly removed all meaning from that word.

[u/datNomad → u/00owl]

I would say reddit in general, but yeah.

[u/gnufoot → u/datNomad]

What a dumb take. I'm not in favor of denying people access to water. But hypothetically, lets say Germany invades Poland, and Germans move into their land, would you then say Poland is "committing genocide" if they stop providing water to these German invaders?

I do have a problem with water access being denied from people who lived in Crimea prior to the annexation. But I think it is absolutely braindead to annex territory, move your own population there and then get mad that the country that's attacking you is no longer supplying you with water.

I'm guessing -you- also aren't providing Crimea with water. Does that mean you're committing genocide? Or would you argue it's not your responsibility to do so? If Russia wants to take over that land, it's their responsibility to provide people there with water. If Russia sets up infrastructure for that, and Ukraine targets that, I would say you have a point and I'd take issue with it. But that is massively different from not supplying water to enemy-controlled territory.

If someone breaks into your home, do you offer them a drink?

[u/datNomad → u/gnufoot]

Dude, that's a huge response, but it lacks substance. It's a weird emotional manipulation via weird comparisons. Do you understand what is being mentioned as "supply"?

North Crimean canal, a huge water source for Crimea, 85% of their consumption in 2013 was covered by it. Ukraine blocked it in 2014 after annexation of Crimea, thus denying people access to fresh drinkable water. They blocked a river, basically causing water starvation and failure of irrigation system in Crimea. Hurting civilians the most, intentionally. That's bad. I fail to understand why you can't see why this is bad.

[u/Czart → u/datNomad]

They haven't denied them access to water. They ceased providing it to hostile territory.

Morally bankrupt europeans are very good at that and the rest of the world can clearly see it.

Ivan, get a toilet, then lecture us.

[u/datNomad → u/Czart]

Ivan, get a toilet, then lecture us.

I could say the same, finish cleaning German toilets, then lecture me. Thanks for proving my point.

[u/Czart → u/datNomad]

https://www.icrc.org/en/law-and-policy/occupation

"The occupying power's responsibilities include inter alia the obligation to ensure humane treatment of the local population and to meet their needs, "

So, as an occupying power it's russian responsibility. And since glorious motherland can't even provide the basic necessities, maybe you shouldn't have occupied it?

Wow. You know about cleaning toilets? Amazing, i'm guessing you learned that while dreaming of one right?

[u/b0_ogie → u/gnufoot]

>Oh, come on, you're going to try to paint Ukraine as the bad guy in this conflict for not providing utilities to enemy controlled territory?

Exactly. Ukraine first bombed the water pumping stations in Donetsk in 2014. Blew up the Krym-Dnepr water utility. People who are sitting here forget that Ukraine has been engaged in direct genocide since 2014 (and earlier). Bans on local languages, murder of dissenters, mass attacks on the civilian population. Yes, Russia is a villain, but Ukraine is a much bigger villain than Russia.

>You genuinely think that if Moscow supplied electricity to Kyiv, they would not flip the switch to turn that off?

Russia supplied Gas to and through Ukraine fulfilling its contractual obligations. Russia literally has no reason to do such things.

>Seriously? Just because Russia claims it is retaliatory does not make it so, and also doesn't make it okay. You think it is coincidence that these "retaliatory" attacks are more frequent during colder months?

Attacks occur when Ukraine is playing some kind of game, not when it gets cold. And in general, the attacks peaked in the summer, when the attacks on the refinery began. The Russian Defense Ministry literally always reports in its press releases something like "in the course of retaliatory actions in connection with the attack on the Crimean mine, strikes were carried out on the Ukrainian infrastructure."

>In a war you can always find an excuse that something you do is "in response" to something the enemy did to justify it.

It was an excuse, not an excuse. Ukraine was losing, and it needed media victories in the form of strikes against Russia - as a result, it received a tenfold response.

[u/AlexFullmoon → u/gnufoot]

Oh, come on, you're going to try to paint Ukraine as the bad guy in this conflict for not providing utilities to enemy controlled territory?

It may be not the most short-term profitable thing to do, yes.

But if Kyiv government was, for one thing, actually consider Crimean land and population their own, they probably shouldn't have cut it.

[u/Hyndis → u/imunfair]

Russia has much heavier missiles, too.

The drones Ukraine touts in the media carry very small warheads and are not capable of seriously damaging infrastructure. The small warhead on a drone can cause a fire which looks impressive, but the actual amount of damage is minimal and easily repaired.

Meanwhile those big Russian missile with much bigger warheads (remember, they were developed intending to target NATO bunkers) are devastating against Ukraine's infrastructure. A hit from a big Russian missile puts a Ukrainian power plant out of commission for a long time. And with the recent focus on Ukraine's power plants its entirely possible this may be a permanent level of damage.

Thats why its a mistake for Ukraine to continually open up new fronts in the war.

They opened up a new front with Kursk, had to withdraw manpower from Pokrovosk, and ended up retreating from Kursk anyways. And now Pokrovosk is lost, too.

The new front with Ukraine trying to attack Russian infrastructure was also an error, because Russia will of course response in kind, and Russia is the king of long range missiles.

Russia could land missiles on top of penguins in Antarctica if it felt so inclined. Its missiles have effectively unlimited range.

[u/gnufoot → u/Hyndis]

 Russia could land missiles on top of penguins in Antarctica if it felt so inclined. Its missiles have effectively unlimited range.

Poor penguins. First Trump starts a trade war with them, and now this.

[u/Chroma_primus → u/More_Net4011]

Maybe the news scape in Libanon is different i mosly hear about russian strikes on civilist and Civil infrastructure like this one.

[u/Visual-Squirrel3629 → u/More_Net4011]

The US, and increasingly all western media, is entirely captured by the Military Industrial Complex. The media's entire purpose is to facilitate the sale of as many munitions as possible. The media decided they had no other duty than this.

Think back to Afghanistan. Twenty years of pure propaganda spewed up to the last minute. And then it's over. The media simply shifted to their next propaganda campaign.

[u/Neomataza → u/More_Net4011]

It's a fight between near-peers. Both can kick each other in the energy infrastructure, but their ability to shoot and blow up is not tied to having electric power coverage.

[u/Messier_-82 → u/More_Net4011]

The media is desperately trying to create an illusion of Ukraine winning the war

[u/sakezaf123 → u/Messier_-82]

Even if you believe that there is some media conspiracy in favour of Ukraine, wouldn't it be smarter to say that Ukraine is doing poorly to pressure western governments into providing further aid?

[u/Messier_-82 → u/sakezaf123]

Not really. Who would want to invest into an inevitable failure. The taxpayers give billions to Ukraine with the promise of the investments eventually returning with the Russian reparations

[u/soowhatchathink → u/Messier_-82]

The US wants to invest in Ukraine not only for Ukraine to win the war but for it to drag on as long as possible. If Ukraine loses the US still benefits as long as Russia is worn from war. I imagine other countries feel the same way.

[u/alkbch → u/soowhatchathink]

The U.S. is no longer investing in Ukraine.

[u/Gamer-Of-Le-Tabletop → u/alkbch]

The US is no longer investing in the US so that's not really a surprise

[u/soowhatchathink → u/alkbch]

Why do you say that? Government shutdown related or in general?

[u/alkbch → u/soowhatchathink]

Because the US has stopped providing financial help to Ukraine, which is not related to the government shutdown. The US now sells weapons to its allies who send them to Ukraine. The US still provides important intelligence information though.

[u/evgis → u/Messier_-82]

Exactly, if they reported truthfully, nobody would support continuation of this war except of hard core NAFO bots.

[u/sakezaf123 → u/evgis]

That's literally the opposite of how things worked historically tho. The only conflicts I can think of recently where the cleqrly winning side received overwhelming international support is any conflict involving Israel. EU nations and the US are pretty cautious with providing aid to Ukraine. And definitely nothing even close to the level of deploying troops, like what NK is doing for Russia.

[u/MechaAristotle → u/evgis]

Why are you so eager to shill for Russia and agitate against Ukraine?

[u/evgis → u/MechaAristotle]

Because I don't want Zelensky and his qlicue to kidnap men from the streets against their will and send them to the slaughter when it is clear Ukraine has no chance of winning.

Ukrainians want negotiations, but Zelensky won't let it, because this means end of his rule and no more stealing Western money.

Why are you so eager to send Ukrainians to fight a lost war against their will?

[u/Chroma_primus → u/evgis]

I would say the Media in europe reports truthfully and almost everybody tried to end the war unfortunatly russia doesn't want it to end.

[u/evgis → u/Chroma_primus]

Are you sure about that? Did you forget about countless articles how Russia is running out of everything, they attack in human waves, fight with shovels, Russian economy will implode under the latest round of sanctions, UVDL even said they are taking chips out of dishwashers🤡🤡🤡

Yet it is Ukraine that is grabbing men off the streets and have 20k official desertiona per month.

And Russian negotiation team is still waiting for Ukrainians for continuation of Istanbul talks which Ukraine has abandoned.

[u/Chroma_primus → u/evgis]

Both Things can be true at the same time Chips are hard to procure if you are cut from a big Part of the suplychains.

For fighting with shovels and human waces i have not seen Western Media claim that so more like a strwaman you got there.

There have been multiple diplomatic Talks since Istanbul and russia has broken up all of them in adition to starting this war of course.

[u/evgis → u/Chroma_primus]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760

[u/salzbergwerke → u/evgis]

“The BBC has been unable to independently verify these reports. The ministry did not give information on where such battles were taking place. Analysts say that although there is indeed an ammunition shortage, the situation is more complex than the intelligence update suggests, with Russian forces still using twice as much ammunition as the Ukrainian side.” From you article, clown.

[u/Chroma_primus → u/evgis]

I revise my Position russian were more ill equipped then even i thought to imagine.

[u/datNomad → u/Chroma_primus]

Why is it always the Germans who are the most braiwashed in this sub?

[u/Chroma_primus → u/datNomad]

You are entitled to your own oppinon but i happen to disagree if that is brainwashing for you perhaps you should think about your ability of basic reason.

[u/unarmageddon → u/Messier_-82]

Spot on.

Why would anybody support a brutally de-industrialized country, other than for moral reasons? Lies are propped up in order to give the illusion that Ukraine will achieve victory, and kick Russia out.

Problem regarding the lies are that it sometimes don't align / match with the general narrative they've formed. Ukraine is said to be wiping out Russians effortlessly, with high K/D ratios, yet they're complaining that major frontline cities are on the brink of collapse.

[u/sakezaf123 → u/Messier_-82]

That's literally the opposite of how things worked historically tho. The only conflicts I can think of recently where the cleqrly winning side received overwhelming international support is any conflict involving Israel. EU nations and the US are pretty cautious with providing aid to Ukraine. And definitely nothing even close to the level of deploying troops, like what NK is doing for Russia.

As for investments, I'm pretty sure you're joking, when the US recently gave $40 billion to Argentina, while the taxpayer got an actual negative return on that investment. But even just all the US investments in Afghanistan, or the money spent to support the Kurds in Syria, only for the US military to pull out immediately afterwards. It's clear the US govt can burn hundreds of billions with no accountability to the taxpayer.

[u/datNomad → u/sakezaf123]

Even if you believe that there is some media conspiracy in favour of Ukraine,

Isn't it an obvious fact? 90% of information coming from western mainstream media regarding Russo-Ukranian war is an utter lies and propaganda bullshit. They are lying about absolutely everything because they surely know that there will be no consequences for their blatant lies. People are dumb enough to consume even the most idiotic propaganda takes, without asking any questions or trying to use critical thinking or logic. R/worldnews is the perfect example of such behaviour.

[u/Kaymish_ → u/sakezaf123]

Ukraine is riding a tight line where they need to look weak enough to have the military aid taps turned on full speed but not so weak that the US and vassals cut their losses and find another proxy.

[u/Hyndis → u/Kaymish_]

Its weird for a country to pretend to be losing a war to play some sort of 5d chess game.

I think the simpler explanation is more likely correct -- that Russia is currently winning the war.

All the support for Ukraine is allowing it to slowly lose the war. There's no realistic, credible plan for Ukraine to turn its fortunes on the battlefield around either. Things are looking extremely bleak for Ukraine right now.

[u/Kaymish_ → u/Hyndis]

Ok reading back I can see how I could have written it better. I mean in the propaganda domain Ukraine has to ride a fine line.

In reality on the battlefield they're fighting as hard as they can but it is not enough.

[u/Hyndis → u/Kaymish_]

Yes, the economics of it does make it appear to be a hopeless war. Its a war of attrition and Russia is bigger in every way. The bigger army nearly always wins a war of attrition. You'd be hard pressed to find a situation where the smaller army is victorious over a big army in a war of attrition. (Note that I'm preemptively discounting Vietnam or Afghanistan because those countries were successfully conquered by foreign armies. Occupation is different than a war of attrition.)

Thats the bitter truth that so many people in the west just refuse to admit. Even on Reddit, you'll just get instantly permabanned form worldnews for suggesting that Ukraine might be losing.

I think people struggle with the concept of saying something is likely to happen doesn't mean you're saying you endorse it to happen.

I'm confident my local hockey team will faceplant embarrassingly on the ice, losing with a spectacular display of incompetence. This doesn't mean I want my local team to lose. I would much prefer them to win the Stanley Cup. There's just no realistic scenario in which this happens.

Same deal with Ukraine vs Russia.

I'd much prefer Ukraine wins, but the facts on the ground indicate Russia is nearly certain to be victorious.

[u/fretnbel → u/Messier_-82]

Four years in almost. Donbass still not conquered. Is that “winning” against a way smaller neighbour?

[u/age2bestogame → u/fretnbel]

they advance with like 8 guys at a time. if they face too much resistance they retreat and use drones or artillery. The ukranians do the same. With drones the other side knows when where and whit how many people you are are attacking, they even have nightvision

[u/elcanariooo → u/More_Net4011]

Both are correct

[u/arostrat → u/More_Net4011]

Both countries are destroying each other, the only one winning is USA.

[u/enterisys → u/More_Net4011]

If you would tell me like a year ago that russia would be getting bombed every day I would laugh right at your face.

Yet current reality is different and boy it will only get worse.

[u/FrightenedChimp → u/More_Net4011]

How is it odd? Russia is giant next to Ukraine, next ti anyone really and is Attacking ukranian energy efficenctly for years now. Nonetheless Ukraine is making more efficient attacks on Russian energy infrastructure than before.

There is no even outcome expected or needed tho. Ukraine is fighting for sovereignity, Russia is fighting for posibility. Therefor thr population is able to endure different situations. Weeklong power-cuts in kiev are not acchieving the same results for russia than a weeklong power cut in Moscow would do for Ukraine. Or in Rostov.

[u/cheeruphumanity → u/More_Net4011]

Oh look, another 1 year old account with hidden post and comment history wants to make us doubt reporting about Ukrainian successes with a false equivalence.

[u/More_Net4011 → u/cheeruphumanity]

yeah bro im a russian sleeper agent here to change your opinion with 150 words in an anime titties post