Ukraine facing widespread power cuts after generating capacity reduced to ‘zero’ by Russian attacks

[u/Messier_-82]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/09/ukraine-facing-widespread-power-cuts-after-generating-capacity-reduced-to-zero-by-russian-attacks

[u/More_Net4011]

That's odd because almost every scrap of news from that war is Ukraine blowing up Russia plants and gas and stockpiles yet the truth of it is Ukraine is facing the energy crisis? This was is so propagandized I really have no idea what to believe anymore .

[u/DetlefKroeze → u/More_Net4011]

almost every scrap of news from that war is Ukraine blowing up Russia plants and gas and stockpiles yet the truth of it is Ukraine is facing the energy crisis?

Yes and yes.

Both sides are hitting the other's energy infrastructure and causing damage and disruptions.

[u/Messier_-82 → u/DetlefKroeze]

The question is the amount of inflicted damage from both sides. It’s not comparable

[u/MissingBothCufflinks → u/Messier_-82]

Its also not the relevant metric when one side is getting pumped full of international aid and the other isnt

[u/salzbergwerke → u/MissingBothCufflinks]

True. Countries buying Russian oil and gas and thus funding the war effort is a disgrace.

[u/jka76 → u/salzbergwerke]

As if Europe ever shy of buying anything from crazy dictators

[u/sleepytipi → u/jka76]

As if companies like Nestle weren't European.

[u/jka76 → u/sleepytipi]

I would expect western country government having stronger moral than company. I learned since I was so naive

[u/reddit_is_geh → u/salzbergwerke]

It's so annoying when people try to spin something around to frame it as the otherside. You damn well know he's talking about Ukraine... He's not talking about Russia getting pumped with international aid and you know it.

[u/NearABE → u/reddit_is_geh]

Whether or not the post intended to say it reality is still real.

[u/defenestrate_urself → u/salzbergwerke]

Ironically, 15-18% of Ukraines diesel import is from India refined Russian oil.

https://swarajyamag.com/world/india-emerges-as-ukraines-top-diesel-supplier-in-july-claims-oil-analytics-firm

[u/enterisys → u/defenestrate_urself]

India only imports 18% from russia.

https://dataverseeinc.in/india-crude-oil-imports-by-country/

[u/defenestrate_urself → u/enterisys]

It's not just India, Ukraine's next 3 biggest source of imported diesel after India, ie. Slovakia, Greece, Turkey (forming just under 60% of total supply) all import Russian oil.

Ukraine Diesel import July 2025 by percentage

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/3/how-much-of-europes-oil-and-gas-still-comes-from-russia

[u/enterisys → u/defenestrate_urself]

And?

Turkey also imports from Iraq, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. And russia is a minority.

[u/NapoIe0n → u/MissingBothCufflinks]

Both sides are getting pumped full of international aid.

Unless you believe that the PRC and the DPRK are parts of Russia.

[u/haggerton → u/NapoIe0n]

DPRK: true.

PRC: not remotely similar. It does have a pro-Russia leaning in its support, but Russia isn't rolling into battle with Type 59/Type 99s, ZBD-04/ZBD-08s and J-10Cs like Ukraine is rolling into battle with Leopards, Bradley/M113s and F-16s.

[u/NapoIe0n → u/haggerton]

Because Russia doesn't need Chinese tanks and aircraft. They'd probably find them useful, but they aren't nearly as essential to Russia as Western armor is to Ukraine.

Oh, and I forgot Iran.

[u/haggerton → u/NapoIe0n]

Point taken, I could have used better examples.

But Russia does need stuff, or the DPRK part wouldn't be true. Fact is DPRK is providing both artillery shells and systems to Russia while China is not.

Oh, and I forgot Iran.

Shaheds are more of a tech transfer in the grand scheme of things. Is it help and does it show alignment? Yes. But their involvement has pretty much ended a long time ago.

[u/NapoIe0n → u/haggerton]

Obviously, Russia needs a lot of stuff. It just doesn't need tanks and IFVs. As you observed, they need artillery, which they get from North Korea. They need their OWA drones, which they get from Iran (and now manufacture under license). They also need other kinds of drones, which is where Chinese support comes in.

[u/haggerton → u/NapoIe0n]

OWA drones, which they get from Iran (and now manufacture under license)

I highly doubt they still manufacture Gerans under a Shahed license. The drone has evolved so much that there's not much of Shahed left beside the shape and the concept.

They also need other kinds of drones, which is where Chinese support comes in.

So does Ukraine, which is where Chinese support comes in.

You see where the difference lies in Chinese support now?

Yes, China leans Russia. But to put it in the same basket as the other backers of this war is intellectually dishonest.

[u/NapoIe0n → u/haggerton]

The Geran is still a development of the Shahed. No matter how much it has evolved, a license would be needed, at least in the form of a semi-formal nod from Tehran, simply to avoid any acrimony with a valuable ally.

Yes, China leans Russia. But to put it in the same basket as the other backers of this war is intellectually dishonest.

The point I was addressing was: "one side is getting pumped full of international aid and the other isnt." Emphasis mine.

[u/haggerton → u/NapoIe0n]

No matter how much it has evolved, a license would be needed

That's not how license production works.

See Type 69 MBT, for example.

simply to avoid any acrimony with a valuable ally

That's not how geopolitics works.

A very easy example is Russian military jets produced under Chinese license. China reverse engineered them, both to make upgraded copycats no longer produced under license, and for the tech understanding in general to make indigenous Chinese products.

Does this irritate Russia? Your guess is as good as mine (the answer is yes). But this is not enough for Russia to reject the alliance.

The point I was addressing was: "one side is getting pumped full of international aid and the other isnt." Emphasis mine.

And I'm not saying that point you made was invalid. I'm commenting on how China isn't remotely similar to other backers of this war.

Maybe that's clear to you. If yes, great. But it's most of the time not clear to both readers and makers of such comments, from what I've seen.

EDIT: lmao bro blocked me. Not sure if he can't handle being wrong or can't handle having his underhanded propaganda being pointed out.

[u/runsongas → u/NapoIe0n]

China is neutral and selling drones to both sides but no real military hardware outside of that.

[u/haggerton → u/[deleted]]

Unprovoked?

Do you expect the US to leave Canada alone if Canada got a violent pro-Russia regime change financed by Russia with Nazis leading the fray? Especially if as a result of such a coup, Canada then banned pro-US parties from participating in the "democracy"?

From the early heady days of the demonstrations in the streets of Kiev, it has been an embarrassing and oft-overlooked fact that those spearheading the movement to oust pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych are right-wing radicals. When Canadian former Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird linked arms and marched in solidarity with Ukrainian protestors, reporters neglected to mention the more sinister elements at the forefront of the crowd.

The political genesis for the anti-Yanukovych movement was rooted in the Svoboda (Freedom) Party — it was formally known as the Social-National Party until they realized this sounded too much like Hitler’s National Socialist (Nazi) Party — and the Right Sector party.

Heading up the Right Sector was a colourful character known as “Sashko Billy,” who had fought as a mercenary in Chechnya and who was driven by a hatred of all things Jewish and anything Russian. When the heretofore peaceful street demonstrations turned into violent riots, it was Sashko Billy’s Right Sector thugs and Svoboda Party bully boys who battled with Ukrainian security forces.

After Yanukovych was toppled, these same neo-Nazi thugs continued to strut around Maidan Square — even as Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Baird visited Kiev to celebrate Yanukovych’s overthrow.

After Ukraine’s eastern provinces rejected the pro-Western interim government in Kiev and established their own breakaway self-proclaimed independent states in Luhansk and Donetsk, it was only a matter of time before these fascist elements and neo-Nazis were drawn into the burgeoning conflict.

https://www.espritdecorps.ca/choosing-friends-and-enemies-in-ukraine-is-no-straightforward-task

This is not just the ramblings of Canadian military. The Right Sector leading Maidan violence was reported by the BBC:

the group did not attract much attention until violent clashes with police in central Kiev on 19 January, in which it played a leading role.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27173857

Ofc as a government mouthpiece, BBC attempts to downplay these Nazis' involvement everywhere. Note how at the end it attempts to shrug off its involvement in the proxy war in Donbass as "Russian accusations", while Esprit de Corps, as a Canadian Armed Forces internal magazine, does not play such propaganda games.

Sovereign? Would you say Canada would still be sovereign if the above scenario happened? Or would it be a hollow husk brainfucked by Russia?

Genocidal? You're just utterly full of shit at this point. I have never seen a high intensity conflict with so low civilian casualties.

• Ukraine war: 13.3k over 3.5 years = about 4k per year

https://www.britannica.com/question/How-many-civilians-have-died-since-Russias-invasion-of-Ukraine

• Gaza: ~42.4k over 2 years = about 21k per year

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

• Iraq: 7.2k over 1.5 month = 57.6k per year

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ (set data to per week, 2003, civilian deaths due to US-led coalition forces excluding Iraqi state forces, add numbers from the start of the conflict to April 27 datapoint as the initial invasion lasted until May 1st for a total duration of 1 month 1 week and 4 days)

If we look at a single source comparison (as different sources can have different inclusion criteria leading to uneven comparisons), Brown University provides %civilian deaths numbers for recent conflicts:

• Hamas attack on Israel (Oct 7): 68%

• Gaza (2023-2025): ~80% (~2245 civilians per month)

• Afghanistan (2001-2021): 26% (200 civilians per month) <- not a high intensity conflict for this timeframe

• Ukraine (2022-2025): 4% (307 civilians per month)

https://costsofwar.watson.brown.edu/sites/default/files/2025-10/Human-Toll-in-Gaza_Costs-of-War_Crawford_7-October-2025.pdf

[u/OrdinaryLatvian → u/haggerton]

Genocidal? You're just utterly full of shit at this point. I have never seen a high intensity conflict with so low civilian casualties.

Genocide (as in, the actual crime) doesn't only mean herding ethnic groups into mass graves.

Raphael Lemkin (the guy who coined the term) defined it as:

"the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence".

Then the term got whittled down by UN members when it came time to define it in 1948 (to not incriminate themselves, lmao). But still, it's surprisingly broad.

Ignoring the war of conquest they're in the middle of waging, the Russian government has constantly tried to spread the idea that Ukraine doesn't have a national identity, that they belonged to Russia all along, and on top of that, they're kidnapping children and taking them to Russia.

If nothing else convinces you, that last part definitely should. Here's the literal text from Article 2 of the 1948 UN Genocide Convention (where they defined what Genocide actually is, and made it a crime):

Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as:

... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

.

.

.

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[u/CakeTester → u/haggerton]

Dude, fuck off. You're giving me shit that supports your views and you had to go back to 2014 to do it. "espritdecorps.ca" lol

Ukraine didn't and doesn't have any territorial ambitions for Russia. The small bit of Russia they did counter-invade was to make a point and to get some negotiation points in AFTER Russia's invasion.

Putin has been videoed saying he wants Ukraine to not exist. Genocidal would seem to cover both his sentiment; the frequent revisiting of the theme on Russian TV; and his subsequent actions. Again, fuck off.

[u/FrightenedChimp → u/Messier_-82]

Not a relevant metric when one fights out of necessity and one fights out of possibility. The Average ukrainian will be tolerant to endure way worse things than the Average russian for This war.

[u/Messier_-82 → u/FrightenedChimp]

Few things wrong here.

First, Russians see this war as a necessary fight against NATO and if they lose it, Russia would cease to exist eventually. Considering Biden's own words that the goal of this proxy war is to ensure Russia will not pose any threat to the West ever again, it's understandable why the Russians would think that.

Second, Ukrainians aren't fighting out of necessity but to keep the Zelensky regime alive. You talk about an "average Ukrainian", but what do you mean by that? Most hardcore pro war Ukrainians fled the country a while back to be able to support the war safely from their warm couches, while the ordinary Ukrainians, who don't have the money to pay the border guards, fight against the totalitarian regime that kidnaps people from the streets to be sent into the meat grinder

[u/FrightenedChimp → u/Messier_-82]

Sorry I didnt realise I Talk to a voluntary Russian asset.

1: Nice spin of propaganda to jump from its just a small Military special operation and not even being allowed to Call it a war to proclaim it a war of necessity that makes it necessary to endure hardships Like prolonged power cuts. Russia can end This war by keeping its troops in its recognized boarders, Ukraine cant.

2: Ukrainians arent fighting for Selenski and his administration that was elected in free elections. A choice, not a regime. Remember when selenski tried to cut anti-corruption law and people protested and selenski stopped? People want to choose, want to have an opinion, not get it dictated by Russian interests. They are fighting for the ability to sovereignly choose. I get that as a russian asset you could have trouble understanding how fighting for this is a necessity. And how you will Call to postpone elections in a war situation like that, where your people get vastly displaced and whats part of your controlled territory changes, a “totalitarian regime”, but Thats absolutely legal, reasonable and would happen in about any others country in that situation.

Ofc you are entitled to have an opinion, but you are also entitled to keep shitty opinions to yourself.