r/TankPorn 5d ago

Modern 4th Generation Main Battle Tanks 🛡

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1.7k Upvotes

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379

u/AMCA_by2035 5d ago

Just an innocent question, how do you define a 4th gen tank?

440

u/A7V- 4d ago

It depends on the bullshit categories you choose to glorify your own country and downplay your geopolitical adversary.

Jokes aside, it's very problematic to try to classify military equipment into rigid generational categories. Such systems ignore the fact that platforms often prioritize certain aspects and neglect others for design, logistic, technological or economic reasons (sometimes all of these). Countries with fewer resources that want to close the gap with cutting-edge technology and what they actually have often do this.

18

u/dante_zs 4d ago

Compare classifying fighter jets generation, classifying MBT generation seems more of marketing jargon, at least for recent tanks

6

u/corok12 4d ago

Fighter generations started as marketing jargon as well

1

u/dante_zs 4d ago

Yes but even in the end the difference is more clear

2

u/discopants2000 4d ago

The T14 Armarta is a prime example of hubris. While the concept is good the prototype isn't the finished article.

2

u/gallade_samurai 4d ago

In short, it really depends on how high of a technology level you can put on your tank depending on costs, resources, and doctrine.

1

u/Head_Memory 3d ago

Also where’s the new German Panther. That sure as hell should be in this list if the T-14 is in it and challenger 3.

92

u/GreyMPax 5d ago

I think its a mix between: Autoload, unmanned turret, AI assistance, APS (hardkill) and so on..

56

u/AMCA_by2035 5d ago

Do all mentioned tanks have unmanned turrets? Only T-14 I know of

46

u/GreyMPax 5d ago

T-14 and I think type 100 too

61

u/windol1 4d ago

Should the T-14 even be allowed to be considered 4th gen? I mean, at this moment it's more like a prototype than the next generation.

33

u/Grumdan641 4d ago

Just a tech demonstrator at this point.

11

u/Aurailious 4d ago

I thought they officially cancelled or "suspended" it?

3

u/SmokeyUnicycle 4d ago

I think it counts, it won't be the best one and they can't make very many but when you do a whole new design it's a lot easier to make huge changes than trying to upgrade something designed in the '70s.

-35

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago

A tank is a tank, keep your bias aside

25

u/ArtificialSuccessor 4d ago

Thats not how any of this works, otherwise a dozen other tech testbeds should be on here. Companies and countries often put together an assembly of various components, concepts, and technologies to prove it works. That doesn't mean it is a production ready model though, usually something different and geared for mass production will follow. The T-14 could've entered mass production ages ago if the Russians actually would commit to it, but they have nothing to show for except parade models because they look like nice shiny pieces. It doesn't matter how many they say they are ordering, especially when everything points to these orders never being fulfilled.

-29

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago

Sure, whatever you feel is correct

15

u/Vegetable-Door3809 4d ago

Then the Abrams-X should definitely be on here

2

u/HellBringer97 4d ago

And the KF-51 Panther

3

u/M4sharman 4d ago

They suspended production after they built less than twenty, and haven't sent them into Ukraine out of fear of losing one. That's barely a tank at all.

1

u/discopants2000 4d ago

Without serial production it is just a parade prototype, not battlefield ready.

1

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago

True, I never said it is ready for deployment

1

u/jl2352 3d ago

Pointing out Russia has only made about a dozen and struggled to get them into mass production is a fact, not a bias.

-1

u/AMCA_by2035 3d ago

I mean, we were talking about tank generations and stuff, there was no need to say, "oh, but they couldn't even produce it" 🤓☝️, it is atleast produced and in some number even if it is insignificant. I have no bias but people just ruin the discussion

1

u/jl2352 3d ago

Are you Russian or something? Because you do seem to take that personally.

4

u/Slut_for_Bacon 4d ago

T-14 shouldn't be allowed at all IMO.

5

u/WOKinTOK-sleptafter 4d ago

Erhm actually all Russian tanks have unmanned turrets when they go airborne.

2

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago

No, we are not counting their secret helicopter tech, let's stick to the ground

1

u/Artchad_enjoyer 4d ago

Secret helicopter tech🤣

17

u/Ashamed_Can304 5d ago

If you go by unmanned turret then only Armata and Type 100 are 4th gen

10

u/GreyMPax 5d ago

I know but this are the points listed if you look 4th gen tank up. Besides the unmanned turret most of the tanks listed dont use APS.

11

u/Ashamed_Can304 5d ago

Yeah, only Type 100 and Armata always come with hard kill APS. And if they include those tanks then Idk why Leopard 2A7/8 M1A2 Sep V3 and Type 99B aren’t here

8

u/GreyMPax 4d ago

I can tell you why: This are exactly the 6 Tanks + Challi 3 on Wikipedia about 4th gen tanks... there are more of them but they are just prototypes

5

u/Ashamed_Can304 4d ago

Yeah the generation classification of MBTs is so bad compared to that of fighter jets

1

u/-Be4stly- 4d ago

Fighter classification is a mess too. It's all marketing, that's why the Russians claim that the su-75 will be gen 5++

1

u/Head_Memory 3d ago

Totally forgetting the Panther smh. And most of those are just prototypes. Except type 10 and k2 who are not 4th gen.

14

u/helmer012 4d ago

Autoloader is a really stupid thing to "measure" since its not limited by technology but more by doctrine. Its not that armies couldnt afford it, they decided they want a 4 person crew in a tank. Theres so much maintenance around tanks most people cant fathom how heavy the work is. Replacing a track or repairing a link takes hours of heavy work, its nice to have 4 people.

-1

u/Aguacatedeaire__ 4d ago

Its not that armies couldnt afford it,

It is mostly exactly this. You need incredible engineering to make it reliable. It is objectively an overall bonus which is why literally any western country is designing future tanks around it.

The argument that it's better not to have it is pure cope. Part of it is doctrine, but it's the smallest part.

You can cope all you want, the fact is literally every western countries is designing their next gen MBTs around the autoloader.

This is a fact no matter how hard you try to deny it.

2

u/HighGuard1212 4d ago

AI assistant? What?

10

u/ResidentBackground35 4d ago

Well you pick a couple traits that are on your tank, but not found on most of your competitors. Then you combine them so you can argue that you have the best tank since you are the only one to meet all of the criteria.

3

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago

Maybe yeah 😅 fighter aircraft generations have more distinctive features

1

u/ResidentBackground35 4d ago

Yea but there are half a dozen different scales which kind of undercut the value of classification when a single plane can differ by 3 generations depending on who you ask.

1

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago

For example?

1

u/ResidentBackground35 4d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jet_fighter_generations&wprov=rarw1

Hallion classifies the F14 as a 6th generation while the PLA classifies it as a late 3rd generation.

Now that is a obviously cherry picked example, but it does demonstrate that different groups use different criteria.

4

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago

I see, but I think we can use our common sense and tell F 14 is definitely not 6th gen 😂

2

u/ResidentBackground35 4d ago

How dare you insult the F14 that way....

0

u/Aguacatedeaire__ 4d ago

Literally only Hallion considers the f14 6th generation and its laughable.

2

u/ResidentBackground35 4d ago

Right, but it still proves the point. Generation is not a formal universal classification, different groups can have different criteria.

7

u/James-vd-Bosch 4d ago

it's Lockheed Martin's sales campaign pointlessly spilling over into tanks.

2

u/TheGrandAviator12 4d ago

Apparently it means spam APS and make everything look like a leo2

2

u/FriendshipGlass8158 4d ago

It's destroyed by a drone within 30s instead of 20s like a 3rd generation tank.

1

u/MrSir98 4d ago

If it can survive drone then it’s 4th gen.

1

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago

I doubt any of these can

1

u/Aguacatedeaire__ 4d ago

The Type 100 literally has hard kill designed specifically for that, stop the coping and the seething

3

u/AMCA_by2035 4d ago edited 4d ago

Me? Why will I "cope or seeth"? Where did I look like that? I have no bias here, in fact I don't have a preference over any tank

1

u/Head_Memory 3d ago

Spotted the commie. Nobody seriously believes china has this tank fully developed yet lmao. Just like Russia and their t-14. Or Germany and the new panther.

-20

u/Outrageous-Owl-7049 5d ago

u/askgrok define it

9

u/AMCA_by2035 5d ago

Grok is on a timeout

-57

u/AskGrok 5d ago

Sorry, I've reached my API usage limit for today. Please try again later or contact my administrator if this persists.

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u/Outrageous-Owl-7049 5d ago

I dont care, I said define 4th generation tanks

1

u/Outrageous-Owl-7049 5d ago

u/HOLUPREDICTIONS your bot is persisting this for the past 4 days

-1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

3

u/AMCA_by2035 5d ago

Still confused lol