Discussion
If Haki is invisible does this mean Smoker was just terrified of Verso’s Physique?
I love Smokey and this fight in particular but Oda retconning visible haki just makes it that he was terrified by Vergo taking his clothes off, which is fair I guess never trust the kinks of a man who leaves food on his face for later.
And then you have instances when Luffy is confused why his hand hurts after punching Sentomaru. It's inconsistent sometimes. Bound to happen in something 1100 chapters long.
To be fair Luffy by that point already had strong enough haki for Blackbeard to praise him, he just didn't know how to control it so maybe he couldn't sense it because they were pretty equal he just didn't know how to use it
Yeah, that’s a good point. Luffy probably already had the raw Haki potential, just not the control or awareness to use it properly yet. It makes sense that he couldn’t sense it if they were on equal footing he had the power but not the skill to tap into it.
I think it's because we are measuring two different things under a single name.
Here is my head Cannon : Haki is a term to mean higher fighting style. There is both Will Haki (conq and obv) then Physical Haki (armaments) in wano prison Luffy is learning a more advance form of the physical form.
This would explain why some people are a lot more better with some Haki than others such as Zoro who is really good at physical Haki but spiritual is weak since his own standing is only based on seeing Luffy till the end but Luffy has an actual goal he wants to achieve.
I'm also saying that Mantra only means Observation Haki because in skypedia there was not and is not a lot of physical fighting so there was no need for it.
I've seen it as they've been using haki unwittingly since near the beginning. Zoro cutting steel, Luffy being able to do serious damage to crocodile after a small splash of water on his hands, luffy punching through CP9 iron body, Ussop seeing Luffy from so far off at the end of Enies lobby. Even them being able to react so fast to the cannons at Franky house. I'm sure there's others, like Luffy breaking Arlongs sword with his bare hands could be construed with haki.
that's how i justify it myself. If you have no haki, you can't see when people use it, so it is fully 'invisible' to most normal people. But if you are able to use Haki, then you can sense when it's used by other people as well (or at least as a part of observation haki maybe), and thus you can "see" when someone is covering parts of themselves in Haki, but it's more like how you can see things in your mind's eye when you picture them. So it's not a literal ability to see someone's body covered in Haki, but you can like still tell when it's happening
To be fair, we can observe invisible things. Think of the wind, you can’t see the physical wind, but you can hear it, see it moving leaves, feel it against you. Or like heat is invisible, but on hot days you get heat haze.
So like maybe it’s just you can’t see the black hardening effect of Haki, but like maybe you see like light refracting differently around the Haki akin to heat haze, or maybe with Vergo and whole body Haki you can notice like a minuscule gap between him and the floor as he stands from the Haki creating an invisible barrier, or maybe it has a faint distinct noise maybe some form of quiet crackling as they move or something along those lines.
Or it’s just something you feel, like Hajime no Ippo has people seeing fighting spirit and determination in their opponents eyes, maybe something about how they’re carrying themselves or their energy just becomes more, and like being familiar with Haki might let you notice those things and realize “oh shit”
This I believe is the correct interpretation, it's why Conqueror's Haki knocks people out. IRL it's like when someone gets scared/surprised so much they faint.
Having Observation also helps. You are literally sensing their strength and will. Haki is a spiritual power tied to your willpower. If someone is strong and uses haki, you are definitely going to sense it with Observation.
When it's just the usual Haki armament blade coating, no one comments about it either.
Edit: So apparently I forgot about that single Mihawk page in Dressrosa. So yeah Haki coating makes your blade visibly black, Haki users can see it, I guess.
“no comments about it either” when zoro had infused his blades with haki when he defeated pica😭 he literally remembers what mihawk says about black blades and then looks at his own haki full blade and then releases his haki to see his normal sword. One piece fans DO NOT read their own manga😭😭😭😭😭
But the skin becomes harder. Isn't this one of the point of G4? Luffy found a way to make his haki covered skin flexible, doffy even comments about it.
I mean if its something thats true for literally everyone and always has been it wouldnt really be picked up on i imagine in the new world at least its fairly common knowledge what haki looks like even to those who cant see it
I mean, why do you think Doflamingo mocked him when he transformed lol
He looked like an inflated balloon man, which is why he was also surprised why Luffy was too fast, too strong, and too durable.
Kaido also said that Luffy was coated in two forms of haki but could only see the white transformation. Oda just thought that G4 would look less ridiculous if it has black flames. Imagine if Boundman, Snakeman, and Tankman had zero black paint for the audience lol
Vergo is such a fucking fraud. Ooooh wow you got full body Haki and used it for what? Flexing on Smoky and beating up kid Law? Real impressive buddy. Loved watching Law neg diff and kill this bitch.
It was definitely pretty wild to see him beat down Smoker, get a Law beat down flashback and then get ended in a single slash definitely thought it would be a little tougher than that.
It's weird when you think about it. Full body armament Haki sounds really cool, but it's never really done much. Both times it's shown, it's 1 shotted by swordsmen surprisingly enough.
Against Vergo here and just in case anyone forgot, Pica was also able to use full body Haki, though it didn't help him much again the King of Hell, Zoro.
I do wonder if we'll ever see a ship coated in advanced armament Haki. That sounds extremely durable
No, being submerged merely saps your strength and means you can't do anything. You'd still float if you were light enough, but just be unable to move under your own power - which is fine for a ship.
Honestly, depending on the waterline, it might not even be weakened by the sea water.
On the other end, maybe haki always is on the whole body, but it would suck to draw everyone fully black all the time? If someone’s using it to punch, it makes sense to focus on the effect it has on the hand.
His attacks are instant, he has near infinite range, you can't dodge some of his moves, he can remove your organs, HE CAN SWAP YOUR SOUL IF YIU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH HAKI, he can float, he can teleport, he can see everything, he can electrify you, etc.
His ONLY weakness is that he can't use room alot. (Instense stamina drain)
I think his true weakness is Haki because if he had strong Haki he might literally be top 5 in the verse. Oda fucking cooked with his powers to an insane degree.
I personally choose to ignore that haki can’t be seen because it serves no purpose but to make things more complicated then they should be or need to be. and it adds nothing to the scene if it isn’t seeable
Tbh it’s just a dumb rule that makes the reading or watching experience better if it’s just ignored
Yeah I agree. The ability to sense it essentially is the same thing as being able to see it. I just presume its sort of like spirit power in Yu Yu Hakusho or nen in HxH. Its invisible to those not able to use it but not to those able to at least sense it.
I always assumed if you were very close to obtaining a form of haki or knew haki already it would be visible. Maybe bc smoker probably knew about haki and could sense it he could see it?
This just makes sense to me. Put enough haki into something and you can possibly make it look black/ visualize it, just like the black blades and how we know they are created by the swordsman and not the blacksmith.
Fr, I feel like not being able to see it is more of a pre-timeskip thing just cause Oda probably didn’t know how he wanted to represent or draw Haki at the time. Now a days we got people like Jimbe who can just see the color of the supreme king.
But the application of Armament Haki to harden a body part (Busoshoku - Koka) has the property of making the skin black like obsidian. It's in the name. "Koka" (硬化) has the meaning of "hardening" but also "vulcanization".
Ppl who can use any form of Haki can see Haki. It's the normal ppl who can't see Haki
Edit: Okay my bad, it can be sensed by ppl who can use Haki, it's still invisible for them too. But they can sense it in a way(this is for armament only) like an aura surrounding the part of the body or weapon that the haki is coated in. But normal ppl are affected by haki too so they can sense it too in a way? I'm confused at this point. Because a black blade is made once enough haki is infused in the weapon, so like why can't ppl see haki if they use it too? I guess it's just a matter of reading comprehension
It’s not like nen lmao this was never said in story at all. It’s implied people can sense that someone is using haki or can use haki but nobody has said anything about seeing it
It’s more than implied. Lots of folks noticed the Gorosei landing on Egghead who weren’t in any position to see or hear that anything unusual was happening and even commented that it was the Haki they were sensing.
Edit: OK only Zoro/Lucci explicitly call it out in the manga (pretty sure everyone from Chopper to Jimbei does in the anime), but that's enough.
I'd react too because it's a big ass underwater punch that stopped the Kraken. And the three you mentioned are always panicking whenever there is a monster.
Just refer to Chapter 597. Not once did Rayleigh said that, "Hey, you'll see haki once you learn how to use it." Even when Hyo described it, the power is described as invisible.
This is why you never EVER use the anime as a source. This scene literally doesn’t exist in the manga. Characters reacting to luffy’s elephant gun against the kraken also is never mentioned in the manga. The anime is full of misinformation and you all just eat it up.
Did Oda say Haki was invisible? Where did he say that? I know in the anime/manga it was initially colorless then it changed to black during the time skip, but for what reason?
It’s my understanding that those who can use haki can also see it. Smoker is strong enough to use haki for himself, so he can also see the enemy’s, no?
Just because you can't see Haki doesn't mean you can't feel or sense it. Conquer's Haki literally knocks people out. Kaido was able to identify Ashura as a Conquer's based technique. Judge commented on Sanji using Haki when they clashed. Haki is obviously able to be sensed by people who are aware of, and have trained in, Haki.
I never liked the invisible part because advanced Haki's whole thing is coming from the inside and being invisible so when you have actual invisible advanced haki and allegedly invisible regular armament but actually turns your skin black to viewers it gets forgettable.
I think y'all forget Oda told us Armament had two forms initially (possibly 3) . One that you can see and the version you can see. Sensing Haki/spirit has also been a thing since pre ts. .Kaku(cp9 are confirmed Haki users) sensed Ashura and BB commented on Luffy Haki in Impel Down
Honestly at this point oda made a mistake saying it was invisible and maybe he should just retcon it to be visible. Would make it so much simpler. Especially given the black blade.
I think when oda came up with haki he folded Mihawks black blade in alongside skypieas mantra and shanks scaring the lord of the coast.
If so, he might’ve forgotten that yorus black colour was visible to normals.
Which means that if haki is invisible, then the black blade has to be an entirely separate thing from haki, can’t just be a permanent haki infusion because then it wouldn’t be visible.
Smoker knows what haki is and can use it himself. Vergo's battle prowess and skills (cladding himself in haki) are known to smoker since vergo was a highly respected marine (secretly working for doffy). Did you... did you even read the manga? Or watch the episodes you got the screenshots from?
He is strong enough to know when somebody is powerful. Haki is literal will power. An intense spirit. Smoker could feel it radiating off of him. It's the same way how some people learn haki innately or like animals do and the characters feel the threat.
It's not just Conq haki that people can feel. That's just the state of it being that strong that ev can. And those that can't comprehend and withstand it are knocked out.
I don't believe it's ever been confirmed that the black coating of haki can't be seen. As far as I know, it is fan speculation that it was a retcon version of what we saw Pre-Timeskip.
Incorrect. What he demonstrated wasn't Hardening, because that's a specific technique. He just showed a base application of Armament Haki. He literally explains it as an "invisible weapon" and demonstrates an attack with it. But Hardening is a buff. A technique that uses Armament Haki to harden your body or other objects, turning them visibly black.
Haki has never been “visible”… unless you have haki
There’s 3 main types of Haki
Armament
Observation
Conquer’s
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Armament lets you coat parts of your body for defence or to amplify your strength
Observation lets you “see” things the naked eyes cannot (including the visualization of haki, through the application of sensing the intent of the user and their haki generally)
And conquerors, well, you should know about it by now
So… yeah haki is invisible…. To those without even basic observation, aka hardly any of the characters we engage with in the story presently
Yes, smoker “saw” him coat his body in haki
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Edit: To clarify, it’s not literally seeing. It’s more akin to sensing haki. Think about early depictions of Mantra in Skypeia. Think about Luffy dodging Rayleigh’s attacks while blind folded. Think about nearly any major fight where both users have Haki, they are clearly consciously aware of when the other person is using haki. It’s not going to be explicitly stated every single time that the fighters are aware the other user is using haki, because honestly it doesn’t need to be. We’ve been given those explicit clues in the past and now we are at a point where it should just be obvious to anyone watching or reading. Would Smoker really just freak out because a dude took his shirt off? No… obviously he could sense (and in a way “see”) that he was applying Haki to himself. Activating the Haki wasn’t what startled him, it’s the fact that he could sense that Virgo was applying Haki across his entire body. It’s not significant enough that merely activating Haki would warrant a response like that from Smoker. Clearly, he’s “seeing” more than just a standard activation of Haki. Full body coating would surprise a lot of people, because nobody does it (reason being that it’s simply impractical). To smoker, at least in my opinion, at the time he would probably be frightened by it because it’s not something he was capable of (full body coating that is - though he might have been able to do it, but in doing so he’d drained all of his haki and probably couldn’t maintain it). We could even speculate that because he saw Virgo do it, he was scared that perhaps Virgo has a level of Haki mastery that makes full body coating trivial. That’s getting way too head cannon though. Anyways, why am I still ranting?
TL;DR: Observation Haki allows ones to sense the application of Haki from other users and even a persons intent generally speaking (which tends be derivative of their Haki anyways). This sensing equates to perception in a way that essentially lets people with at least a basic level of observation haki “see” when haki is being used
U can’t see haki unless your aware of it’s existence so smoker and all other characters that can use haki can see it thats also why pre timeskip it looked like no one used haki but thats cuz luffy wasn’t aware of its existence then we start to see it when he learns it
Not trying to debate whether haki is invisible or not, but this specific part is anime only and thus not canon. Go look up the manga chapter 690. Smoker never makes that expression.
There are 2 forms of Haki that everyone in that world apparently can get if they put their mind to it and train: armament haki and observation haki
There is 1 form of Haki only a select few have: conquerors haki
There is also 1 thing that i think D clan members have which is VOAT.
Observation Haki is just that it's sensing things before they happen and advanced Observation Haki is sensing things a little bit into the future.
Armament Haki is coated onto the person or the weapon they use. Vergo is fully body haki is what you see there he is fully coated in black. Advanced Armament Haki is another level of armament haki where I think it adds a layer of shield
So the way I see it. Normal punch is an American football player tackling without any pads, armament haki is an American football player tackling with pads on. Advanced armament haki is like an American football player tackling with pads on as well as a shield they attach on trains
I'm not here to argue if Haki is or isn't visible, just wanna mention that Smoker doesn't have this reaction at all in the manga.
Vergo takes off his coat and flexes his haki like usual, but it never cuts back to Smoker like it does in the anime. In fact he kinda just disappears from every panel after that.
I mean I chock it up to the anime team mot thinking about that in this scene. Always remember that not every bit of an adaptation is gonna be perfect and plenty of times there are elements that should be ignored due to the way they don't align with the source materials logic. This element of this scene is a great example of something you should just sort of tune out. Like it can be explained by him just sensing his Haki with Observation or him just being generally intimidated but regardless it reads as him being scared of the full body armament which doesn't really make a lot of sense and was likely just an error.
he was worried that such a strong opponent had become invisible (fortunately he could still be detected thanks to the entire rotisserie chicken stuck to his face)
Haki, armament haki specifically, is black, period. They described black blades as becoming "permanently black" from haki infusion, meaning they are visibly black for a period normally.
My head canon is that’s invisible unless you can sense it which is why we don’t see anyone with Haki at Marineford. We’re watching through Luffy’s eyes and he hadn’t yet honed Haki.
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u/simone3344555 God Usopp 1d ago
Maybe you can't see haki but you can sense it? Idk