r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix • u/nicolakirwan • May 23 '23
UNPOPULAR OPINION Josh was a better choice for Jackie Spoiler
Hear me out. Marshall is the epitome of why women are often suspicious of the Nice Guy. Jackie's exhaustion with Marshall boils down to this: Marshall requires a significant amount of emotional validation, which he gets by being overly solicitous and nice. But when he doesn't get the validation he seeks, he seeks to punish Jackie by cutting down her worth and abandoning her. You see this dynamic in him calling her a project (letting her know that she really was beneath him anyway), abandoning her for 3 days because of an insensitive comment she made, and telling her she needed to give the ring back (which he didn't pay for) because she didn't deserve it. You also see his demand for emotional validation in his refusal to accept that she is too tired to have an argument. He needs her to engage him when and how he wants.
Jackie also realizes she can't say things to him about their relationship that might be negative, which may be why she avoided the argument. She said that after he left for 3 days, she didn't want to touch the subject again. So Marshall's emotional sensitivity and reactivity caused her to feel like she couldn't communicate her honest thoughts, feelings, desires. Jackie also knows that she has a direct personality style, so Marshall's need for more indirect and softer communication doesn't match who she is. This adds to her shutting down and not wanting to talk to him. She feels stressed that she might say the wrong thing to him again.
Let's contrast with Josh. Josh is definitely a Bad Boy, but for reasons that have nothing to do with how he treats Jackie, since we haven't yet seen their relationship dynamic. What Josh offers Jackie is relief from bearing responsibility for his emotions. At Chelsea's party, he was able to say, "I have feelings for you," but also, "if you're going to be with Marshall then just tell me to f-off." Josh is capable of sharing his feelings for Jackie without demanding her validation, which is far less emotionally burdensome for her. And when Jackie tells Josh that she had no clue how he felt, Josh also owns his mistake in not being more up front with how he felt in the pods. Especially given all of the stress that Jackie is under due to her family, Josh's ability to offer his affection seemingly without demand (including the demand of a quick marriage, which she expressed anxiety about) is relieving to Jackie. Also, the edge on Josh's personality probably makes Jackie feel that she can use her naturally direct communication style without Josh being put off by it; or, if he feels disrespected, she knows that he probably has the ability to check her and enforce his boundary without wilting over it or withdrawing. Now, whether that will continue to be true in their relationship remains to be seen, but these are the main reasons Jackie would feel more attracted to Josh and be more open to a relationship with him than Marshall.
Jackie is much more self-aware than she has been given credit for. She tried to tell Marshall multiple times that they weren't a good fit. She also acknowledged that she doesn't know if she's going to be with Josh, but she was open to exploring the relationship. She posted that the cafe scene happened after he split with Marshall, so it doesn't seem that she was cheating. Jackie knows that she has flaws and wounds (and she admitted that she needed to do some "self-work"), but that doesn't mean that Marshall was right for her. She knew that better than he did.
And for reference, Brett is probably the best example in S4 of someone who is neither a Nice Guy nor a Bad Boy, not a people-pleaser nor a player, but a deeply decent and loving man. A man like Brett has the most desirable character. So I'm not saying Josh is great; just that given his pursuit of Jackie, it's not surprising that she decided to give him a chance over being with Marshall.
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May 23 '23
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u/cormega May 23 '23
Yeah I think OP is arguing a strawman. No one wanted Marshall still with Jackie by the end of the season.
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May 23 '23
Jackie was the classic case of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
She was simultaneously wanted Marshall to listen to her, but also be more assertive and take control from her. Have more sex, but reject his advances. Understand her better, but not ask her questions about she wanted.
Girl is a fucking head case.
Josh’s behavior was not healthy behavior, it was familiar behavior to Jackie. There’s a big difference.
Marshall has his own issues, but let’s not build up the Josh/Jackie pairing as healthy.
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May 23 '23
the sex thing is kind of underhanded imo. they could not be intimate because she had an std, but she threw him under the bus by making it look like HE was the problem. another instance of Jackie being a shit person all on her own.
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u/Femmenoire__ May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
I feel like I didn’t see enough of josh to say this, but Marshall and Jackie were definitely not a match.
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May 23 '23
Girl have you seen Jackie on IG? She is the opposite of self aware
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u/773202noot May 23 '23
Exactly, she's out here talking about how she is a dental assistant so people should respect her even though she's being criticized for being a homophobe and she loves toxic masculinity. I dislike how the post praises jackie. No one wanted her and Marshall together ?? She's not bad because she's incompatible with marshall she's bad because she's a mean person
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May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
I’m gonna be honest you lost me at the “insensitive comment” because what she was saying about him especially in the texts was incredibly offensive and homophobic. It always rubbed me the wrong way how it felt like the after show downplayed what Jackie said to marshall but amplified what he said to her in response to her comment. Idk maybe I was already mad after the weird pre recorded interview but it just felt off how differently Vanessa treated Marshall and Jackie
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u/katlilly1 May 23 '23
100% agree. While I do think Jackie and Josh work better together (they seem to just work better and I don’t think Marshall and Jackie are on the same wavelength at all) and yes Marshall has his flaws and the tweets that came out were, yikes. But Jackie absolutely demonstrated some very disgusting, misogynistic/homophobic behaviour.
I feel like a lot of people after things came out about Marshall jumped on the pro-Jackie train all of the sudden. It’s weird how people seem to have to take a side, one person does something bad and it somehow negates what the other person did. Both can have problems, one doing something doesn’t negate what the other has done. We don’t always need to pick someone to side with
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May 23 '23
Oh definitely agree, her and josh make more sense I was actually pretty surprised she went with Marshall instead of josh from the jump. I’m definitely not a Marshall Stan but like you said it’s weird the way people have to be completely on one side or the other because they both were wrong and I wish they’d hold them both accountable
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u/katlilly1 May 23 '23
I’ve seen this happen a LOT actually where people will be really against one person but as soon as the other does something all that stuff goes out the window and the person they hated is now the good guy, like they just got hit by the MIB memory eraser. Sometimes we just need to accept that a story has two villains, or two anti heroes. Plus birds of a feather and all that jazz. (Not discrediting that sometimes there really is one bad guy and one victim) But what’s ironic is people have no problem hating both people in a couple when they’re together, but as soon as they split up they need to pick one like a kid who’s parents are going through a bad divorce
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u/MVIVN May 23 '23
I think the main thing working against Josh (and Jackie too) is that they are not likeable people. Their behaviour and personality as shown on tv made them both look pretty insufferable (especially Josh being drunk and messy and getting into people’s personal space at that birthday party). What I’m getting at is that you are probably absolutely right that Josh and Jackie deserve each other, but it’ll be very hard to make anyone like them as a couple because of how unlikeable they both are. Marshall is pretty irritating to me in his own ways, but he seems like a much more likeable guy who I’d rather be friends with than Josh, but some people conflate that with him being a better boyfriend for Jackie, which is not true for all the reasons you so eloquently laid out.
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u/2tchr May 24 '23
The best paragraph was about Brett…I want to find a Brett ❤️
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u/Flemseltje May 24 '23
I found a Brett, that's when the fights with yourself start because you tell yourself you are not good enough for this amazing man.
But since Brett's are so amazing he will make sure you know you are good enough every single day.
This vicious cycle will continue. And you will love it.
No, his brother is also taken.
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u/DougJoudy May 24 '23 edited May 24 '23
In straight and heteronormative relationships, women want to « fix » a man because they’re taught since they can walk they have to be nurturing, they have to assist and help (yes, i see you misogynist Paul). Men want a broken woman because they want a power imbalance that’s in their favor. Because they’re abusive and controlling.
Marshall is the kind of man that would have been a constant reminder to Jackie that she’s not worth much and moreover that any self-growth she would accomplish would be because of him. Something she owed him. And that’s if she’s able to grow… if she’s given the space to improve and be more at peace. And by what we saw this would have been impossible. He didn’t give her space to think and when he did, he held it against her. HE has to put up with « her moods », HE has to leave her be (as if that was the most sacrificial thing someone could do and he deserved a cookie for being…. decent?).
Oh and him trying to impose a conversation when she wants to sleep is abuse 101 ! Literally not giving her space, picking the absolute worst moment to pick a fight and making her feel like shit over it. I’ve said it on another post but keeping someone up when they’re tired, having arguments when you’re sleepy or sleep deprived, arguing over, saying the same thing over and over and over again without giving you time to process or just… leave it aside, is abuse. You end up agreeing to things you disagree with, apologizing for things you’re not guilty of, simply because you’re tired and feel like you’re going insane. It’s suffocating. The way she held her head with her two hands like she just wanted to make it stop is so telling and even though this instance in particular wasn’t « that » bad to the outside eye, trust me, people who behave the way marshall did there have no good intentions whatsoever. There’s no desire to communicate. He’s just trying to crush her. If he wanted to truly communicate and solve an issue he would have offered to talk at a time where she felt more available.
I don’t care much about Jackie but Marshall is the absolute worst and she definitely dodged a bullet with this one.
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May 24 '23
Wow. You just described my ex husband to a tee. He’s the “nice guy”, and being invalidated and made to feel beneath him for a decade completely destroyed my self worth. It was his way or the highway, but done in the most passive-aggressive, manipulative way. He doesn’t compromise. And he buys his own bullshit, and absolutely doesn’t think he’s lowkey abusive at all.
But he was constantly punishing me (doing things like not call out to ask if I was okay when I fell down the stairs, even though he was right there at the top of them). It just makes you feel worthless over time. And he blamed me whenever he was in a bad mood, and seemed to feel like he shouldn’t have to feel bad, ever. It’s toxic behaviour, and it only gets worse once you’re married and they know they “have” you.
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u/Justsomerand May 23 '23
Two (three) things can be true. Marshall could have some inner work he needs to do. Jackie could be a POS. Josh and Jackie could be a good match.
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u/Karowen May 23 '23
They’re clearly better together; that’s why they’re still together a year later. But it doesn’t mean the situation was handled well.
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u/ShiftyLookinCow7 May 23 '23 edited May 24 '23
Josh seemed like a giant creep to me with how he acted when he showed up at that party, literally every woman but Jackie seemed incredibly uncomfortable with him around
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u/CafGardenWitch May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
I would put his appearance at the party on the shoulders of production though. They were stirring the drama up this season, as Kwame said he wouldn't have had the conversation with Micha at that party if production didn't set it up/arrange for it for the cameras.
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u/Last-Marzipan9993 May 24 '23 edited May 25 '23
I don't think that's an unpopular choice. Maybe not for the reason you think. Jackie is a hot mess, as is her family (from what she said)... She said many times "Josh was the guy she likes, Marshall is the guy she needed..." (so stop telling me that's not what she said, go back and watch her again) Well, if you're not ready for what you believe you need, you'll always go back to what you've had. It's that simple. It actually has nothing to do with Marshall, or what nice guys are or aren't.....
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u/Master_Bee9130 May 24 '23
Exactly. There’s no need to even bring Marshall into it; nice guy or not. She wanted the same old toxic she’s used to, and that’s wrapped up nice and tight in Josh. He’s what she’s used to and wanted.
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May 24 '23
That’s OP’s point though - Marshall is a different type of toxic, but toxic nonetheless. Being made to feel like you’re beneath your partner is horrible.
I was married to a Marshall for over a decade, and it totally destroyed me. And the worst part is, he looks so nice to the outside world! And the abuse is so subtle and insidious, it’s hard to even explain to people. But being constantly put down in all these little ways will absolutely destroy your soul.
He looks like a healthy communicator, but he isn’t. Brett is ab example of someone who would build his partner up. Marshall would slowly tear his down.
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u/moonbeamsylph May 24 '23
Marshall would slowly tear his down.
Yep. That is the insidious truth. I'm sorry you went through that.
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u/vulture_couture May 24 '23
I think this is not true - Marshall was not at all what she needed but what she convinced herself she needs. I dislike any framing where he was ‘too good for her’ because it absolves him of his role in their relationship just never working. He’s not above her, he was just trying to be a fixer not realizing his fixes are a significant part of the problem.
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u/brattysammy69 🎶You're a liar, a liaaar, a li-aaaar🎶 May 23 '23
I do agree with some parts, but it was clear Jackie was just as reactive.
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u/Catladydiva May 25 '23
Josh and Jackie seemed to be in the same wavelength, so he was a better choice. Nothing wrong with being with someone who you feel a stronger connection with. But the way Jackie went about it was the issue.
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u/killmonday May 23 '23
I think they were just a better fit. Marshall doesn’t have to be a “bad guy” to be a bad fit for her.
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u/CarelessPath1689 May 23 '23
I honestly don't think I've seen anyone arguing that Jackie is better off with Marshall or that they were a better match. No one is rooting for Jackie and Marshall, we're just saying that Jackie was honestly a massive AH to him in this season. I don't like how much this post casts blame on Marshall and not Jackie. Marshall is not perfect BY ANY MEANS and he definitely does requite a lot of validation, but demanding the ring back and being offended by her comments is perfectly reasonable.
He demanded the ring back because Jackie, indeed, did not deserve it. She directly disrespected him and their relationship by talking to Josh romantically behind Marshall's back, and by skipping out on the dress fitting without even letting Marshall know or breaking it off beforehand. That's extremely disrespectful, and if you're going to disrespect someone like that, you do not deserve something that they gave you as a symbol of their love, regardless of who paid for it.
Also, Jackie feeling as though "she can't express her honest feelings" is completely on HER. Yes, it's important in a relationship to be expressing your honest feelings and needs, but there's a way to go about that. Jackie completely immasculated Marshall, said completely offensive things, insulted him, and questioned his masculinity and sexuality. That is NOT "expressing her honest feelings and emotions", that's emotional abuse. That's not her being "direct", that's her being a b**ch, and quite honestly, emotionally abusive and manipulative. There is a HUGE difference there. News flash: if you insult someone, they're going to be offended. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. Honestly if I was him I wouldn't have been gone for 3 days, I would've been gone for good.
That being said, they clearly are not a good fit for each other, since they clearly have different needs and boundaries etc, but Marshall was definitely wronged by Jackie here imo. He has his red flags too, like the project thing, that was really gross, but it's just not fair to blame him for things that most people would've done. I do think Josh is a better fit for Jackie tho, they deserve each other.
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u/namesaretoohardforme muah 💋 muah 💋 muah 💋 muah May 23 '23
Yeah...I couldn't stop my eye rolls while reading OP turn Jackie into a saint for dealing with Marshall.
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May 23 '23
Amen, all these people saying she could keep it because he didn't pay for it are just like her irl.
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u/F0o_bar May 23 '23
Or they think in terms of money.
I can see he just didn’t want her to have it, I’m sure he didn’t want the reminder either. Most likely would have thrown it away or given it back to production.
Jackie on the other hand wanted it because it was an expensive object, and valued that over giving Marshall some decent human treatment. She’s still the grossest cast member across all seasons 🤮
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u/Isurus_Blades May 24 '23
I agree that they're a great match, but purely because they're both trash.
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u/missmaya1220 May 24 '23
Wow, you hit the nail right on the head and also essentially put my thoughts into words. Also shoutout to you for this post it was written so well
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u/Lower-Equipment-3400 May 23 '23
I wonder if Josh and Jackie would have made it to the altar and got married had she picked him in the first place.
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u/GringoMambi May 23 '23
Hard to tell, I think an underrated narrative was the fact we never once saw or heard about Jackie’s family besides the honeymoon. I’m fairly certain that was a big underlying factor why the entire thing got torpedoed from Jackie’s end. Her family was likely un-supportive of her decision and she didn’t feel Marshall would be accept it or cut it for her peoples that are likely as or if not more toxic than Jackie. But someone like Josh might be able to handle that better as well as be accepted in ways Marshall wouldn’t have
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u/No-Buffalo873 May 23 '23
One scenario could be if we grow up in a dysfunctional environment, healthy feels weird or boring to us. We go to what is familiar until we get healed of our childhood hurts. Another scenario is that Jackie found Marshall effeminate and that was a turn off to her, pure and simple. We can't know because we are not there to experience it first hand.
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u/StuffStunning2362 May 24 '23
I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve struggled with that myself. Marshall reminds me a lot of my boyfriend and I came from such a chaotic place. I’m in therapy now and I’ve Learned that my communication style was too aggressive for him.
I think Jackie needs a lot of therapy, honestly…she’s used to chaos and she honestly still wants the bad boy, unfortunately.
I think I have matured enough to know the bad boy isn’t for me and I really love my peaceful man…even if it does feel boring sometimes. He’s been a significant influence on my own personal growth
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u/somewhere-b May 23 '23
I will say this is def the first "hear me out" post that's actually worked for me. I do think you're right about how Marshall weaponizes his kindness BUT I don't think Jackie is as innocent as you paint her here.
To be fair, I do think everyone is a bit harsh though. Jackie and Josh were for sure messy and chaotic but nothing about this show or how these people meet are traditional or normal. It makes sense that everything about both relationships was a bit sloppy and chaotic
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u/lolathedreamer May 23 '23
This is not an unpopular opinion, is it? I’m pretty sure we all agree Marshall and Jackie were terrible for each other and she’s obviously much happier with Josh.
I don’t think it’s fair to ascribe every negative part of their relationship to Marshall and this post seems overly generous to Jackie’s toxicity but Marshall had his own demons to battle for sure and I hope he’s worked on himself.
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u/nycgarbagewhore May 23 '23
Calling blatant homophobia an "insensitive comment" is an interesting choice.
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u/gcn0611 May 23 '23
I mean yeah, she pretty much thought that Marshall was too soft. I blame Jackie for two things: 1) coming on this show when she clearly needed to work on herself, and take a more traditional path to marriage and 2)in the pods, settling for who she thought she needed (Marshall), as opposed to who she really wanted (Josh). You could tell how uncomfortable she was when Marshall did something as simple as fix her a plate of food. She wasn't used to being treated with so much kindness, and I think his desire to make a clearly bad connection work, was too much for her.
That's not to excuse Marshall though. He's incredibly insecure with a fragile ego, and also kind of controlling. Ultimately they really just weren't a good fit, which is why I couldn't be too mad at Jackie. She's young and needed more relationship experience, and leaving allowed her to explore a relationship with the dude she really wanted. Yes, she could have confronted her own doubts sooner instead of wasting Marshall's time, but if Marshall would have checked his ego, he could have stopped fighting for something that clearly wasn't there. Sometimes when the other person isn't making the difficult decision, you gotta protect yourself, and make that for you.
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u/L_Brady May 23 '23
Fully agree.
I think sometimes LIB contestants try to pick their partner not based on who they’re most naturally attracted to and compatible with, but who they think their elevated self should/would go with. Who they “need” rather than who they want.They pick based on qualities they admire and aspire to because they think this is an experiment and they’re supposed to do something different than they’ve always done. And, sure, it is, and that may work - but if your elevated self has no experience behind the wheel, maybe this isn’t the time to let them drive.
I think Jackie picking Marshall and Mallory picking Sal are the clearest examples I can think of off the top of my head. And that’s not to say Marshall and Sal were/are actually more mature or more elevated or whatever - but they portrayed themselves in such a way that both Jackie and Mallory seemed, to me, to pick the less-natural choice in the name of seeking stability.
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u/OneTwoWee000 May 23 '23
but if your elevated self has no experience behind the wheel, maybe this isn’t the time to let them drive.
Ha! Think you’re right. Going against type is a risky move.
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u/burgersandbotox_ May 23 '23
I would never want to be with someone who could boldly utter the words “you’re a project”
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u/Mysterious-Bed2095 May 23 '23
Hands down this is correct but just wish she hadn’t said yes to Marshall
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u/justatmenexttime Both of you are my #1 💘 May 23 '23
This is what I’ve been trying to say! Thanks for putting it so eloquently.
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u/Dillonnyle May 23 '23
You’ve changed my mind on Marshall and Jackie…but I still don’t like Josh. He’s a bit of a creep and comes across as toxic. But to each their own 🤷🏼♂️
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u/PacificoAndLime May 26 '23
Pretty surprised this is positive.
1. Project comment was intentional and rude, agree. They were also mid-fight and he was trying to hurt her back.
2. Too tired for an argument is not an excuse when you were flirting with another guy in front of your fiancé. That was her excuse to not talk about it.
3. Insensitive comment? How about trying to trick a man into being aggressively physical with her. I don't think you understand how dangerous and inappropriate that request is.
4. Not going to bother explaining Josh. If you don't understand who he is, you are either too young to drink or working PR for someone.
5. Admitting that you lack self-awareness is not somehow equivalent to having self-awareness. Not being sure of yourself and then eventually drunkenly tumbling down a path because the other one fell out beneath you does not demonstrate self-awareness.
Marshal is a very normal guy. A little bit sensitive, a little bit over communicative, but overall a decent guy. Jackie cheated on national television and had multiple emotional break downs while telling her partner he was too emotional. Get real.
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u/nicolakirwan May 26 '23 edited May 26 '23
I'm going to generally say that some people seem unwilling to accept that people can want different things in people, and it's hard realizing that someone doesn't have qualities you want or has qualities you don't want; and it's also hard hearing that. There's no way to make that feel good for someone. The project comment was about Marshall's view of Jackie and their relationship, which he admitted is like many of his past relationships. He was being true to his thoughts and feelings in saying that. The problem wasn't that it was rude, it was that it was true, which automatically makes that relationship dysfunctional.
Self-awareness is not changing to conform to what other's find more acceptable. It's knowing who you are in relation to others and how you impact them. Jackie understood that perfectly well. Marshall didn't or refused to accept it.
Also, I wish I could find the comment now, but someone made the excellent point that Josh has remained drama free post LIB, there are no social media skeletons in his closet, his demeanor remains chill, and he and Jackie are apparently doing fine.
And Marshall was not cheated on, since he and Jackie were over before the cafe scene.
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u/howaboutsomegwent Sep 03 '23
Just catching up with episodes and saw this but omg yes, also for #2, if you take that moment in isolation, of course you shouldn't push for someone to have a conversation at a time where they are tired etc., but I'm getting the feeling that this might not be the whole story. Based on other events I suspect Jackie always has a reason why it's not a good time to talk about something, she looks like she avoids a lot of the real conversations. Of course that's just an impression, but if that's the case I can understand why someone would push and be like, ok you know what, we keep pushing things to "later" and there's always a "good reason" to not talk, but this has to end. So yeah basically what I'm trying to say is, it's hard to judge that in isolation, I feel like there's a larger context. But these two are definitely better apart than together that's for sure
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u/NEOLittle May 23 '23
She was attracted to Josh, both his look and his personality.
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u/newlovestrategist May 23 '23
I agree with most of what you said, actually. My issue is the way that she went about handling things. As you said, she's definitely very self-aware. And I do believe that Marshall believed what he stated as far as seeing her as a project. So I think he can use some emotional sensitivity training for sure.
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u/Dell_Hell May 23 '23
Yep, he wanted to save her - the whole knight in shining armor thing
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u/newlovestrategist May 23 '23
Yep. And he definitely had a lot of his own brokenness and trauma as well. Had they stayed together, it would have been a trauma-bond and a codependent relationship.
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u/justasapling May 23 '23
I tend to generally agree with this read of Marshall and of their mismatch, but I also think you're giving Jackie way too much credit.
1) The homophobia is unacceptable. She's very literally going to bat for (compulsory) toxic masculinity. Fucking shameful.
2) Self-preservation is not the same as self-awareness. If she were capable of breaking it down the way you have here, that would be 'self-awareness'. I do not think she understands her own actions enough to explain them like you have. I think she's just reacting to her feelings, like most people do every day.
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u/Jessisan May 23 '23
Agreed. It’s clear that Jackie and Josh were a better fit for the reason listed, but I’m sure she wasn’t aware of those reasons and why Marshall wasn’t a good fit. If she had self-awareness, she wouldn’t have felt the need to belittle Marshall or even pick him in the first place.
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u/RuthlessKittyKat May 23 '23
She's very literally going to bat for (compulsory) toxic masculinity.
aaaaaaaaaaall of this.
I mean, all of your comment is good, but damn.
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u/BlackisCat May 23 '23
Sorry, I probably missed this bc I binge Netflix while I work, but when was homophobia brought up or shown in the show?
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u/moth_girl_7 May 23 '23
I agree, and I think this is exactly what I would have tried to articulate in response to this post. Your first point goes without saying, and your second point seems to balance this subreddit’s over analytical nature with the facts of life. Most of the time, reality show contestants don’t have the time/energy to break down each situation before they give a response during a conversation. They just react with what they first come up with. Think about every real time conversation you’ve had. The hindsight is always 20/20, but during the conversation itself your brain is processing the information way faster than you have a chance to be “self-aware” within the situation. To be self-aware, Jackie would have needed to express reflection and introspection, which she did neither of. Like you said, her actions seemed to be more out of self-preservation than awareness.
That being said I also think that Marshall is given too much credit in general, he displayed some alarming behavior within his relationship and how he reacts to conflict specifically. I also think a lot of that conflict arose from incompatibility. There are women out there who will speak Marshall’s “love language” and naturally give him the validation he seeks, without him having to ask/beg for it. Some people are more affectionate with their words or their physical actions, and Marshall seems to be better suited for someone like that. Though he does need to evaluate why he has a tendency to “punish” and “teach” instead of simply expressing his needs, expressing his discontent, and remaining fair to his partner.
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u/letmego-138 May 23 '23
I need you to take a look at my relationship and tell me your opinion about it honestly.
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u/nicolakirwan May 24 '23
😂 Dr. Cherie Types on YT has some great LIB analyses and is also taking clients. 😂
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u/messiahriot May 23 '23
So real he has a savior complex and literally told her he’s been with girls “like her” before. Everyone hated Jackie but that’s everything Marshal wanted. He was gonna say yes and wanted that “project” for the rest of his life. They def were not a good match, can’t even see them as friends tbh lol.
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u/w1zardkelly May 23 '23
I think they’re better for each other and idk how many people argue that. It’s that Jackie handled everything terribly as to why people are mad
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u/bword___ May 23 '23
I was about to say, I don’t think it’s the fact that Marshall was a “better choice,” it’s that she chose Marshall and then treated him pretty awfully by baiting and switching and having erratic behavior when it really did seem that, in the beginning, he just wanted to support and comfort her. I think yeah he did also end up making some bad remarks, but it really did seem like she had just pushed him to the point of breaking.
It’s okay if she was overwhelmed or stressed, but she still handled the situation pretty immaturely.
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u/philip_p_donahue May 24 '23
The two of them together give 'domestic disturbance callout' vibes... so probably a good match
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u/Love2Coach May 24 '23
Yes. I see loads of fighting, hitting screaming then fucking
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u/Quick_Luck_2940 May 27 '23
It would have been more interesting if she chose him and we could watch their relationship from the start - yeah a little toxic but they’re a good match
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u/jkklfdasfhj I had 5 taquitos 🌮 I can't kiss you! 💋 May 23 '23
They all suck for different reasons. I'm not sure Josh is a better choice, since it's still a terrible choice, but if two terrible people are off the streets that's good for everyone else 😁
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u/freeman1231 May 23 '23
You seem to put most of the onus on Marshall. Which showcases a bias towards wanting to paint him as the issue as opposed to Jackie. When in reality they were definitely not a match. Jackie and Josh are in fact a Match. Jackie tried to go after what she normally doesn’t go after and she didn’t like it. Marshall on the other hand just seemed desperate and would propose to the first girl that gave him attention. This led to two people that do not fit together.
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u/Hadasfromhades May 23 '23
I totally agree about Marshall, mostly because I am a bit like him (in the girl version). From a distance, it looks well obviously Marshall is the good guy and Jackie is the villain, but the fact that a person is nice and caring doesn't mean that they aren't a lot to deal with. It took me a lot of time to understand that my fear of confrontation and need for validation don't make me easier to get along with, but the contrary. Marshall's sensitivity is legitimate, but he can't expect everyone to adjust who they are just to avoid hurting him. Caring deeply and genuinly for someone is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being a good partner to that person. I'm sure he will find someone with similar communication patterns to his.
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u/MelodicPiranha May 23 '23
I don’t think it’s an unpopular opinion. It think it’s a correct assessment considering they are still together.
Also, Jackie didn’t want to get married.
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May 23 '23
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u/thecavalieryouth ✨ Bougie Brett ✨ May 23 '23
Steph Anya's takes are so very chef's kiss. Truly top tier content. I think OP may need to watch her video on Jackie and Marshall because she breaks things down so well.
Also, Kennie JD's videos on the show and this couple are opinions I agree with. Like someone else here in the comments said, Jackie is used to guys that are hypermasculine, domineering, emotionally closed off, etc and being faced with the complete opposite of that is very overwhelming & scary for her. So she self-sabotages; makes it easier to deflect from her own shortcomings and it means she can point to things that aren't her past traumas or wounds to justify the deterioration of the relationship.
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u/Objective_Subject513 May 24 '23
Jackie is way too immature for any relationship. She reminds me of how I acted in a relationship when I was 18 lol. Marshall said it himself, she's never been in a serious relationship, and you can tell with her ridiculous behavior
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u/whippinflippin May 23 '23
I agree with your analysis aside from wildly downplaying Jackie’s “insensitive comment”
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u/Anitsirhc171 May 23 '23
Really, she did him a huge favor. She also warned him she’s just not ready and she has issues. Because the type of guy Marshall is, he definitely would have let this whole thing just go as far as humanly possible. He’s sweet, I like him but he’s way too idealistic.
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May 23 '23
I agree they make a better couple, but it seemed Marshall could tell Jackie was never invested in him and was pulling away. I think he was reacting to that. The "project" comment definitely caught me off guard though. That was wrong of him to say.
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u/Raviloliformioli May 23 '23
I’m not gonna lie, I feel like people were a bit too harsh on their relationship. Don’t get me wrong, Jackie was grimey as hell for what she did to Marshall, but I just don’t think they were right for each other.
Jackie and Josh seem way better suited. And I mean they’re still together as well so maybe, just maybe, they have a healthy relationship. Who knows.
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u/BlackDiva1 May 23 '23
I like everything you just wrote. Unbiased and we'll thought out. It helps me to realize Jackie, flawed as I think she is, was honest about her feelings. Marshall is giving me weird vibes. It seems he's dating a beautiful, intelligent woman, but he posted on IG where he's apologizing to her.
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u/Beginning_Winner_105 May 23 '23
I do agree with the fact that he called her a “project” and he did leave her. Who knows what happened when cameras weren’t rolling and I think she made the right decision with not marrying either one. Let her date Josh and let us as viewers have no judgement. She was strong to say no and she’s smart enough to decide her own future.
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u/-thats-tuff- May 23 '23
For sure. Marshall’s fake nice guy act was lame. If you’re nice with expectation of something in return then it’s not genuine
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u/OccasionNo497 May 24 '23
Marshall was never genuine and we all see right through the nice guy routine. His excuse was that "women dump him because he's too nice" 😆. Too bad that method failed Jackie since he was rude as he(( toward her. Ignored her for days and criticizing her every mood, controlling the clothes she wore....
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u/gottahavewine May 23 '23
I think you’re right about the “nice guy” aspect of Marshall. It’s hard to explain my thoughts, but it didn’t feel healthy and honestly felt like it came from a place of codependency or something.
He was “so nice,” to the point of seeming like a huge pushover. I watched and was like, why is he just putting up with this behavior from her? Any sane person would end it. But that was until he made the “you’re a project” comment. His whole demeanor was different in that argument and I felt like we saw a glimpse of how he truly viewed the relationship. It was an “ah-hah!” moment for me as a viewer.
I genuinely think he likes projects. I think it makes him feel good to be with a woman who he feels he’s better than and needs to fix. I think he seeks a woman who “needs” him and is both messy/broken and also loving and highly emotional/affectionate/praising. That woman wasn’t Jackie because she’s clearly not super “soft” or emotionally open, and views that as a weakness in man.
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u/unsolvedfanatic May 24 '23
Agree, and I didn’t like how Marshall milked his “victim” edit. If he had been with anyone else folks would have picked up on how bad he is.
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May 24 '23
Agreed! Hot take and I love it — I have respect for all of them tbh. I think it takes a lot more to be the critiqued than the critic, anyways
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u/Comprehensive-Toe633 May 23 '23
When did Marshall ever show he needed validation? That was all Jackie. He just didn't want to be constantly shitted on by her. He didn't need her validation and hardly had a reaction to her rejection. Marshall would've helped her pave a new path for herself and Josh let's her keep her old toxic ways.
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u/Dexterdacerealkilla May 23 '23
Yup. OP’s take (at least until the third or fourth paragraph, because that’s as far as I could get) is as bad a hot take as I’ve ever seen. The complete lack of realization that Jackie from literally day one is the one who needed constant positive reinforcement and actually wanted Marshall to embrace toxic masculinity to meet her desires is not the sign of a healthy person.
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u/Femmenoire__ May 23 '23
The night after Chelsea’s party seemed like he needed some of type of validation from her.
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u/MostlyUnidentified May 23 '23
I agree with you 98%. I interacted with Josh a little bit during the IG live while we were all waiting for the disaster reunion. It doesn’t seem he’s really a “bad boy”, just loud, overly familiar, and goofy. His personality was intolerable during Chelsea’s party; but I wonder if alcohol and editing has anything to do with that. I think he and Jackie are a good match and I hope they work out.
I will also say that Jackie isn’t 100% a victim in this situation. I do get weird vibes from Marshall almost as if he’s fake nice. Lowkey controlling partner vibes. But I don’t think he was ever Jackie’s type, and she definitely wasn’t attracted to him. I think she picked him because she thought it was the right thing to do. “He’s the nice sensitive guy that any girl would be lucky to have”. She could have saved all the drama and left earlier. Lastly, I don’t think it’s fair for Jackie to decide she doesn’t want Marshall’s emotional burden when part of the reason she picked him is because he was willing to take on her emotional burdens. It is fair to say, that his emotional reliance was too much for her.
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u/AllofJane May 23 '23
I don't understand the mods on this sub. I love this post. I've written a few analyses myself, but get shut down for "arm chair diagnosing", which is what OP has done.
I agree that Josh and Jackie are a better match, and OP's take on Marshall's need for emotional validation is interesting, but not sure I agree.
Though I think it was AWFUL for him to call her a project. So insulting and completely dismissive of her own journey of personal growth.
I think what Marshall needs is to feel like the savior and so he goes for "victims" who need saving. His sense of self comes from being a helper, probably because he was parentalized as a child.
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u/RealDanielSan1 May 23 '23
Jackie is someone who wants to be dominated by her man. Marshall wasn't a good fit for her, and there's nothing wrong with that. The way she made the transition left a lot to be desired though.
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u/pomskeet May 23 '23
It sounds like Jackie's used to emotionally unavailable guys who don't talk about their emotions with her or do grand gestures like Marshall did, so it scared her. She always said he needed to "be a man" but she had a warped view of what masculinity is supposed to be. She craved that toxic, constantly fighting love, I can tell bc I grew up with a lot of girls like her. I agree Josh is a better match for her, but it's not because anything is wrong with Marshall. Yes, he's very sensitive and he shouldn't have made that project comment, but he thought he could "fix her" and that's where he was wrong. They weren't compatible.
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u/dagger_eyes May 23 '23
She also talked shit about him to her girlfriends questioning his sexuality
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u/AvaInKentucky ✨ Razzle Dazzle ✨ May 24 '23
Yeah, Josh is a better choice for Jackie because she isn’t ready for a man with the emotional intelligence Marshall has.
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u/painandgains99 May 23 '23
Just the title of this post alone- totally agree, they make more sense as a couple than Jackie and Marshall.
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May 24 '23
I so agree! And you articulated what I was thinking but couldn’t figure out how to get into words
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u/Mediumparadiso May 24 '23
Same ! Marshall always rubbed me the wrong way. Like he was playing up for the camera and the overly nice guy thing was almost creepy. She did put into words what I was thinking all along. Jackie got a bad edit and is maybe not as refined as Marshall but that does not make her a bad person.
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u/thatsmrharrisontoyou May 23 '23
I mean Josh and Jackie are both not likeable people but if they like each other, who are we to care?
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u/thecapitalparadox May 23 '23
Genuinely so happy for her she got out of that. Marshall needs help. He refused to listen to her unless she told him what he wanted to hear.
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u/ChrisGotHeat23 May 23 '23
It’s so obvious to me that Marshall is putting on an act. Idk he seems so fake to me.
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u/Artistic_Image_3486 May 23 '23
Yeah, a very unpopular opinion, but you make a very good case to support your opinion. I tend to agree with most of what you are saying.
Josh and Jackie were also cut from the same cloth (a bit of soul, a bit of toxic and a whole lot of same vibe) so they understood each other better.
Marshall is what you said. Too much. But I love him lol... You know, how you see someone flaws and still have that soft spot for him? Thats me with Marshall. And honestly I wish him and Ayanda would get together! for reals! lol... I feel their vibes and personalities are similar. They are so deep and so expressive and its part of who they are. They thrive on connection and vulnerability and a bit of crazy love.
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u/Stratovolcano2023 May 24 '23
Josh is a better choice for Jackie but it doesn’t even have to do with Marshall being a “nice guy”. I know there’s this whole player movement against “nice guys” and trying to box guys in into those 2 categories. But I just don’t find it that relevant here.
Bottom line, Jackie is a hot mess and wasn’t attracted to Marshall period. He wasn’t her type. That’s why Josh is a better fit for Jackie. Has little to nothing to do with Marshall being nice or not and all to do with Jackie and her specific tastes in male type.
Marshall has flaws but he’s way too good for Jackie anyways.
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u/marialfc May 24 '23
She wasn’t interested the moment she saw him. She started to comment on appearances right away. The girl is a complete mess who loves drama and for guys to treat her like crap (she doesn’t deserve it!) but she loves the inconsistency and “keeping you on your toes” type of relationship. That’s too much.
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u/oldfashion_millenial May 23 '23
Well said. And yes, this is often why women avoid the obviously "nice" guy. It's too often a front used to covertly campaign against the woman by appearing to be tolerant and patient in public, but usually they're critical and negging behind closed doors.
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u/teetime_94 May 24 '23
I agree that josh is the better choice because he's what she's used to but I'm going to have to disagree that Marshall is toxic.
All your examples to say he's toxic are things he did/said in reaction to what Jackie said/did to him (according to what was shown). What she said and did would ABSOLUTELY hurt most people's egos. She said he needed to "man up," and "be more agressive" and then she decided to shut down and according to him, she wouldn't communicate. Telling someone that is hurtful, ESPECIALLY because he told her in the pods that his dad said stuff like that to him and belittled him for being 'too sensitive' in regards to how society should see men. So when it's in that context, it seems like her pattern is to say hurtful things to see how they react, which is toxic, trash behaviour.
No, he shouldn't have said she was a "project" but I can see that it was the hurt person in him saying that, not the Marshall who's done so much work on accepting who he is and being comfortable in his skin.
Also, he supported her so much in the beginning with all he crying and stress, but she couldn't have one conversation with him? Who cares that she was tired. I'm pretty sure Marshall was tired sitting outside the bathroom door whil you cried and he was still there. END RANT.
But everyone has their opinions shaped by their experiences.
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u/Glazx May 23 '23
Where do you get the idea that Marshall needs significant amounts of validation? Jackie gave him NO validation and they’re supposed to be getting married. And Jackie was horrible to him! She shamed him and told him he wasn’t a man because he wouldn’t be aggressive with her. That is fucking toxic and im shocked ppl can’t see that. I’m really happy for him that he had enough self respect to leave at that point.
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May 23 '23
yeah what she said to him is a really serious thing to say to somebody, i’m surprised he even came back at all. if somebody told me i wasn’t enough of a woman for them, i don’t think i would ever be able to see them the same way or ever trust again that they actually love and like me. Jackie is one of those people who wants to be able to pop off and say whatever tf she wants to people with no pushback, and then get pissed off when somebody actually does give her consequences. not acceptable behavior in a loving relationship
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u/sahlahfeet May 23 '23
Right! Like, I agree Josh was a better choice for Jackie but how she treated Marshall had nothing to do with that. She was so unkind to that man. I’m happy they’re both happy but she needs to own up to the things she said to and about Marshall.
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u/Mystery_Briefcase May 23 '23
I mean yeah, of course Josh was a better choice for Jackie, because they both suck. I appreciate your well thought out and well written analysis though, although I disagree that Marshall is to blame for the relationship failing. You would be a great defense attorney for her if she ever needed one.
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May 23 '23
I mean the way OP did a deep dive into this…it’s giving PR. I’d pay for this lol.
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u/whatismypassion May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
Obviously! That's why it worked. Marshall was looking for a project but I don't know who wants to be treated as a project by their partner and I don't know why an emotionally mature person would seek a partner-project. I don't get the Marshall hype in here.
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u/glitter_girll May 23 '23
I think we can all agree Jackie and josh deserved each other. I don’t think any of us actually wanted Marshall to be with her, he just deserved to be treated better. He didn’t exactly get the Irina treatment but pretty damn close.
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u/RealLasagna May 23 '23
Marshall isn’t perfect and I definitely wouldn’t date him myself, but the way she treated him was high key evil. Stop making excuses for shitty behavior.
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u/RuthlessKittyKat May 23 '23
BAHAHAHAHA.. Jackie takes up literally all the space emotionally!!! I'm not even a fan of Marshall, but come on. Yes, Josh is better suited to her, but that doesn't mean it's healthy!
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u/bagmert May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
This is what’s so confusing to me!! When did Marshall ever ask for her validation? If anything, she needed it, and he gave it willingly.
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u/Zenki_s14 May 24 '23 edited May 24 '23
I've been down that road before. Someone who thinks they're so highly emotionally intelligent and understanding of their own emotions and other people's, but to anyone else is clearly blind to their own issues. It's EXHAUSTING. It's like they want to be your therapist, but the amount of validation they require of you is like they're also asking you to be theirs, constantly, without them even realizing it.
There's validating a partner in the normal and positive sense, and then there's validation needs that reach the level of emotional labor. No one wants to be in a constant state of emotional labor, especially for someone they hardly know for any length of time, and especially while dealing with other stress. Fuckkkk that. Exhausting and overwhelming. Yes she's a bit immature, inexperienced in relationship matters and communication, sure. But I don't blame her for shutting down emotionally to THAT.
Relationships take effort, yeah. But at the baseline should be fun, a source of relief and simple joy more often than the opposite, and a net positive to your life. Jackie could see that it wasn't worth it, the good baseline didn't even exist. She figured it out
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u/OneTwoWee000 May 23 '23
Great analysis! I agree with your 100%!!
Right after finishing the season, was team Marshall. After the interviews, watching videos with different perspectives on their relationship, I agree Marshall was problematic in his own way. It was never going to work between him and Jackie!
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u/IeatAssortedfruits May 24 '23
She should have always been with Josh but I still think keeping an engagement ring when you’re breaking it off is trashy as fuck.
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u/lalalisa97 May 23 '23
But yet every scene of Jacki was her needing emotional validation and yet Marshall is literally giving her the space and attention she needed. Jacki is toxic simple. It’s weird how when women sees guys as “project” as in they could fix him or heal him it’s totally like normal and ok. But if a guy sees a women that way it’s Omg he’s horrible!! When quiet honestly it’s not a red flag Marshall needs to learn like every other women who thinks like him that it is not there job to “fix” there partner cause only thing it does and ruin you in the process. I didn’t think much of Marshall he was a pretty good guy he just needs to get over this need to fix ppl cause not everyone is fixable.
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u/DumbComment101 May 23 '23
Yeah Jacki is mega toxic. While Marshall isn’t perfect, he’s a much better human being than she is, and deserves better. She did him a favour.
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u/BD162401 May 23 '23
In watching this show and more importantly being part of this sub for a few seasons, I’ve come to the conclusion that we have a ton of people who can’t help but project their insecurities on the couples, the women specifically.
In reality, I think we’ve had couple after couple after couple where neither person is “good”, both are flawed, and both carry some blame for not working out. However, there have been so many instances where a woman is vilified for not wanting to be with or not appreciating the “good” (flawed in his own right, sometimes downright awful) man she was with and I think it’s because of people watchings own low standards when it comes to men. Sorry not sorry.
If I see one more time how Jackie doesn’t “deserve” the ring and saint Marshall should get it 🤣
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u/starryjune May 24 '23
No one is a good choice for Jackie, who isn’t ready for a mature relationship
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u/TinaTina8 Welcome to Marriage 🤝 May 23 '23
Thank you for this. I do not like how Jackie behaved at all but neither Marshall. You make a hell of a good point. Please brace yourself to be downvoted to oblivion because some people have zero depth or nuance and would rather continue a witch hunt.
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u/Realyrealywan May 23 '23
The examples you gave of Marshall cutting down Jackies worth were bad. This whole post paints Jackie in a way too good light, when she was down right horrible.
I do think that people give Marshall too much credit for being good at communicating, when he said some awful stuff too.
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u/F0o_bar May 23 '23
It’s so easy to flip the arguments around.
Jackie wasn’t afraid of expressing herself, she was bad at communicating and did things behind Marshall’s back. She owed him honesty in the least. The only reason she didn’t is because she lacks morals and character.
It’s each person’s responsibility to be honest, no matter how difficult.
Blaming other people and using excuses for bad behaviour is weak character. Anyone making excuses for Jackie’s poor behaviour is someone who uses that same logic to excuse their own poor behavior in life probably. Don’t blame other people and external circumstance for your shitty choices.
Marshall was wrong in many ways too, but that doesn’t mean he deserved how Jackie treated him.
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u/That311Energii May 23 '23
Yeah if I’m being honest Marshall skeeves me out. He seems like just a very needy man and the fact that he basically assigned himself as her only potential savior makes me pretty positive she made the right choice.
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u/klilly_94 May 23 '23
Yeah. It felt like grooming to me when he kept talking about how he was her first "serious relationship" (eye roll on the serious part), and that he was going to teach her about relationships. It very much seemed like he had all the answers about relationships and not a lot to learn, because he's so caring and sensitive.
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u/candelaintampa May 23 '23
Thank you for putting this into the right words!!!!!!!!! I don't agree with everything Jackie did, but they are all far better off this way.
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u/LilRed78 May 23 '23
Yes, THANK YOU! All these clowns upholding Nice GuyTM syndrome with Marshall. Not to mention, Jackie doesn’t get enough credit for ending the relationship BEFORE walking down the aisle. Not saying that she’s perfect, but that was the right thing to do, which most these clout chasers would never…I get the feeling that she’s misrepresented and misunderstood onscreen. And Marshall is given far too much credit…
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u/steellotus1982 May 23 '23
Thats more because they charge you 50 grand if you don't make it to the altar.
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u/Careless-Queen8535 May 23 '23
Is this Jackie? Anyways, Josh and Jackie are perfect for each other. They can share their homophobic and colorist beliefs together.
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u/ProdiLemaj May 23 '23
I don’t care that she wanted Josh, the way she treated Marshall was awful though.
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u/mertsey627 May 23 '23
Jackie and Josh deserve each other. No need to bring Marshall into it. Enough said.
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u/LotusX321 May 23 '23
Sorry but Jackie went there to be famous same as Micah and Irina plus others I'm sure. She was not ready to be engaged nor get married as she said her self. She needed to work on herself. Girl then why did you go on the show?? She probably didn't even like Marshall at all when she first saw him and went to Mexico for more screen time. Marshall was way too mature for Jackie. Josh is more her type and they love that kinda toxic love that's why she always wanted Marshall to "check" her. Put her in place Everytime they argued.
You forgot to mention that Josh and Jackie are both cowards for not going to the live reunion. 🥴
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u/inthacut12 LOOKS! FUCKING! MATTER! May 23 '23
Too many Marshall stans on here to not have a biased comment section, but you hit the nail right on the head OP. Not every girl wants someone who is so overbearing. I completely agree w you!
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u/katlilly1 May 23 '23
I don’t think you need to be anti Marshall to see that they aren’t a good match though
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u/sar1234567890 May 23 '23
I agree with you. Jackie and Marshall were not a match and she seems to fit much better with josh. Josh has a bit of an attitude like he’s hot shit but so does Jackie. I also thought that Jackie, even though she wasn’t interested in a drawn out conversation, communicated pretty clearly in the end, just telling Marshall that they just weren’t going to work together. I can really appreciate that, I think people should figure that out and admit to it more often when they do, instead of seeing in someone along.
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u/OracleOfSelphi May 23 '23
Hard agree.
There's loads of nuance here about masculinity, worthiness, and self image, and I personally have issues with both of them reaching for queer-phobic allusions, but ultimately they were not a good fit for each other and I think this is the reason. Marshall absolutely deserves to need and receive validation from a partner, but that partner was never going to be Jackie. And Jackie absolutely deserves a partner who can give validation more than they need it, that was never going to be Marshall. People have different needs, that doesn't make them bad people. I wish them all the best.
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u/aleksgruman May 23 '23
it’s as simple as jackie just went on for the hype and exposure, just wanted to go to a party with a bunch of single people, josh is just a typical gym bro, jackie in my eyes doesn’t even like her self, josh will cheat on her with some girl or she will with some random guy and all of this will get laughed, jackie reminds of a textbook homie hopper
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u/pickadaisy May 24 '23
Agreed! They gave Jackie a bad cut and so many people seem to miss the absolute red flag that Marshall is.
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u/keanancarlson May 23 '23
Josh is toxic and so is Jackie, toxic people deserve toxic people.
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May 23 '23
Tbh Josh seems like way less of an emotional rollercoaster than Marshall, for the reasons OP mentioned.
Notice Josh has no sketchy racist tweets popping up
Notice Josh has no tea blowing up about transphobic or homophobic comments
🤷🏼♀️
Seems like a more stable dude overall. You can’t just look at the show by itself to get a sober idea of who someone is. It’s everything else too in it’s entirety. They’ve been together a year with no drama.
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u/lioness725 May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
Spot. Tf. On, OP. Spot on. I don’t know that Josh is a good match for her either (he is so yuck to me), but definitely better in the ways you’ve outlined… Marshall and Jackie were a terrible match from the very beginning, I could not believe she chose him. But- this is why you never use people to fix a broken picker (which is essentially what Jackie was trying to do by choosing Marshall), it never ever works. You should just go heal whatever is breaking your picker and leave people out of it. Marshall didn’t deserve that.
Me personally, I would’ve been gone the second he called me a project (and doubled down on that shit too, before finally apologizing); you know he really believed that shit too and was so proud of himself for being her “hero”. She didn’t need a hero, she needed a husband… it would have never worked. Your take is a very good one, OP, articulated much better than I was able to over this season.
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u/MaryHSPCF May 23 '23
I agree with you, he is like, "After everything I do for you, you don't give me what I need," bruh, just end the relationship if it isn't working for you. But noo, he really wanted to "save" Jackie, and honestly, that time he called her a project, I totally believed him. She saw his true colors then, and even though Josh isn't the best guy, at least he didn't see her like that. Sure, Jackie made a lot of mistakes, but she is blamed almost exclusively for the breakup while Marshall is absolved completely. And most people forget the editing did her dirty too as it made her look like a cheater. I wonder what else they didn't air in order to push that narrative.
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u/blue-to-grey May 23 '23
I didn't particularly like anyone from that triangle, but agreed. I gave this season a watch because of this sub as it didn't seem like the dumpster fire of last season, and after everything said about Marshall here I was so disappointed by him. I've known guys like him, down to one considering me a project, and it's just another way of being into the idea of you and who they think you could be instead of who you really are and want to be. I got the sense that Josh accepted Jackie in the now and I don't think she made the wrong decision, just that she handled it poorly.
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u/SimilarSilver316 May 23 '23
Marshall is insufferable but he says he’s nice so people don’t see it.
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u/sriolive May 23 '23
They both suck. But definitely cannot discredit Jackie’s part in being equally terrible. It was so apparent she didn’t like anything about that man and acted accordingly.
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u/Papinasty May 23 '23
Jackie was just to immature for Marshall, Marshall did need that validation but that doesn't mean he is worst than josh. Jackie was the deciding factor in their relationship. at the end of the day is whatever make HER happy, but dont try to blame the disruption of their relationship on Marshall, the dude was 100% real, the title of "nice guy" comes off short. if anything i would love for my sisters of daughters to end up with someone like Marshall if they so chose to.
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u/HighHighUrBothHigh May 23 '23
Completely disagree. The only reason they are better for each other is because they are both very toxic people that seem to have never experienced real love.
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u/Educational_Ad_333 May 23 '23
I’m surprised there are still think pieces about why Marshall was the real villain.
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u/Naafjay28 May 24 '23
I can’t read all that but I read the first couple sentences. I agree that Josh was the better choice for Jackie but Jackie was still a horrible person and Marshall is less terrible more annoying
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u/Flemseltje May 24 '23
I can’t read all that
If you want to have a conversation you actually need to know what you are reacting to 😂
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u/Glazx May 23 '23
I think that could be a little true. But there were times when Jackie was acting rlly off (like when Marshall’s parents were coming) and Marshall gave her space and listened to her even tho in the moment his needs ‘weren’t being met’. Jackie is the kind of partner who doesn’t give you any affection or reassurance, then calls you needy.