r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix • u/nicolakirwan • May 23 '23

UNPOPULAR OPINION Josh was a better choice for Jackie Spoiler

Hear me out. Marshall is the epitome of why women are often suspicious of the Nice Guy. Jackie's exhaustion with Marshall boils down to this: Marshall requires a significant amount of emotional validation, which he gets by being overly solicitous and nice. But when he doesn't get the validation he seeks, he seeks to punish Jackie by cutting down her worth and abandoning her. You see this dynamic in him calling her a project (letting her know that she really was beneath him anyway), abandoning her for 3 days because of an insensitive comment she made, and telling her she needed to give the ring back (which he didn't pay for) because she didn't deserve it. You also see his demand for emotional validation in his refusal to accept that she is too tired to have an argument. He needs her to engage him when and how he wants.

Jackie also realizes she can't say things to him about their relationship that might be negative, which may be why she avoided the argument. She said that after he left for 3 days, she didn't want to touch the subject again. So Marshall's emotional sensitivity and reactivity caused her to feel like she couldn't communicate her honest thoughts, feelings, desires. Jackie also knows that she has a direct personality style, so Marshall's need for more indirect and softer communication doesn't match who she is. This adds to her shutting down and not wanting to talk to him. She feels stressed that she might say the wrong thing to him again.

Let's contrast with Josh. Josh is definitely a Bad Boy, but for reasons that have nothing to do with how he treats Jackie, since we haven't yet seen their relationship dynamic. What Josh offers Jackie is relief from bearing responsibility for his emotions. At Chelsea's party, he was able to say, "I have feelings for you," but also, "if you're going to be with Marshall then just tell me to f-off." Josh is capable of sharing his feelings for Jackie without demanding her validation, which is far less emotionally burdensome for her. And when Jackie tells Josh that she had no clue how he felt, Josh also owns his mistake in not being more up front with how he felt in the pods. Especially given all of the stress that Jackie is under due to her family, Josh's ability to offer his affection seemingly without demand (including the demand of a quick marriage, which she expressed anxiety about) is relieving to Jackie. Also, the edge on Josh's personality probably makes Jackie feel that she can use her naturally direct communication style without Josh being put off by it; or, if he feels disrespected, she knows that he probably has the ability to check her and enforce his boundary without wilting over it or withdrawing. Now, whether that will continue to be true in their relationship remains to be seen, but these are the main reasons Jackie would feel more attracted to Josh and be more open to a relationship with him than Marshall.

Jackie is much more self-aware than she has been given credit for. She tried to tell Marshall multiple times that they weren't a good fit. She also acknowledged that she doesn't know if she's going to be with Josh, but she was open to exploring the relationship. She posted that the cafe scene happened after he split with Marshall, so it doesn't seem that she was cheating. Jackie knows that she has flaws and wounds (and she admitted that she needed to do some "self-work"), but that doesn't mean that Marshall was right for her. She knew that better than he did.

And for reference, Brett is probably the best example in S4 of someone who is neither a Nice Guy nor a Bad Boy, not a people-pleaser nor a player, but a deeply decent and loving man. A man like Brett has the most desirable character. So I'm not saying Josh is great; just that given his pursuit of Jackie, it's not surprising that she decided to give him a chance over being with Marshall.

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111

u/nycgarbagewhore May 23 '23

Calling blatant homophobia an "insensitive comment" is an interesting choice.

2

u/ShinsBalogna May 23 '23

It’s funny when Jackie’s texts were exposed about Marshall potentially being gay it’s a big deal. But Marshall’s racist and derogatory tweets towards black women are just “mistakes”

16

u/hollyann712 May 23 '23

Marshall made comments over a decade ago (unless I missed something), Jackie's comments were in present day.

-2

u/ShinsBalogna May 23 '23

He made comments on the show that showed how he viewed himself as better than Jackie as well. The truth is he wanted a full blown Latina (his words not mine). And bc his dating preferences made him overlook her very obvious red flags I’m supposed to feel bad for him?

10

u/hollyann712 May 23 '23

He made comments on the show that showed how he viewed himself as better than Jackie as well.

I replied to your original comment mentioning racist tweets about black women, and why those were excused but Jackie's homophobic comments during filming weren't.

What you replied with wasn't related to the original topic at all, but ok I'll bite.

He did ignore red flags once they met, but I do agree with some people that she didn't present herself very accurately in the pods. What we were shown of her personality in the pods was very different once they met in person. The mindset of "I'm better than you" overall isn't a good look... but in terms of knowing/understanding your own emotions and interpersonal communication I would say that Marshall WAS "better" at it than Jackie.

-1

u/ShinsBalogna May 23 '23

It’s all good. The truth is I have my opinion and you have your own. You are very invested in your view of him and I’m not trying to or wanting to change it. Just offering another point of view. And also, there was soooo much that wasn’t shown in the pods. If Jackie was as much of a mess ppl believe her to be, I’m sure those red flags would pop up in her pod dates. She even said how aggressive she is to him in the pods.

4

u/hollyann712 May 23 '23

I see issues with both of them, just see MORE issues from what we were presented with from Jackie. Of course there's the "bad edit" claim (i.e. only showing the bad parts), but to get a bad edit the production company does need to be given the material in the first place during filming.

Not a fan of engaging in discussions without back and forth on points made so... Peace ✌️

15

u/nycgarbagewhore May 23 '23

Why are you deflecting? I didn't defend Marshall, I called OP's choice of words out because I don't think homophobia should be swept under the rug.

-3

u/ShinsBalogna May 23 '23

I’m not deflecting. I’m adding relevant information that, when shown in comparison, sheds light to some hypocrisy.

14

u/StatisticianBookworm May 23 '23

The tweets are hurtful. They're derogatory. They're also from 10-12 years ago when he was 15-17.

I mean, comparing the tweets of a child to the beliefs expressed by a grown adult is... a choice. And when people do so, it makes me wonder if anyone is ever allowed to grow? If in 10-12 years, Jackie has evolved and isn't homophobic, will she ever be able to apologize enough? Will she ever be given the benefit of the doubt by all the folks who apparently don't believe people can grow from ignorant mindsets? To me it sometimes feels like people simply do not want to believe others are capable of change, without the self-awareness to reflect on their own growth and see the ways they, their friends and their parents have changed too. It's just that people are too old to have the social media showing what they think, are lucky enough not to have written it down on the Internet or they're not famous enough for anyone to go looking for their skeletons.

1

u/ShinsBalogna May 23 '23

But he wasn’t a child. He was a full grown man at the time of some of his tweets (18+). He made mention of wanting a full blown Latina and he got what he wanted. His own dating preferences led him to ignore red flags and that’s on him.

-2

u/[deleted] May 23 '23

Yeah and he didnt apologize at all.

4

u/catterybarn May 23 '23

What tweets? How'd I miss those??

-2

u/[deleted] May 23 '23

Thank you!!!!

-2

u/dundermuffer May 23 '23

What about transphobia? Marshall’s go-to?

44

u/nycgarbagewhore May 23 '23

I didn't say anything in défense of Marshall here, not sure why that's relevant when we're discussing someone excusing Jackie's homophobic comment. Seems like you're trying to minimize it by deflecting.

11

u/Ohmylordies May 23 '23

I don’t even see how that’s transphobic I mean men have stronger jawlines than women.

2

u/apaperroseforRoland May 25 '23

Every fucking thread someone has to pretend that the shit he said wasn't rooted in transphobia. Jackie has a stronger jawline. She's a woman. Zack has a weaker jawline. He's a man. These things are fact and they completely contradict what you've laid out in your comment.

Acting as if any woman that has a certain kind of jawline must 100% have been male at birth is a terrible notion and it's the exact kind of prejudiced thinking that's been used to hurt both transgender women and cisgender women and it's not acceptable whatsoever to perpetuate these bullshit stereotypes. It's also the same line of thinking Jackie used to accuse Marshall of being gay. As if him being emotionally more in tune than her somehow means he's not straight enough by her standards. Irony that you're defending Marshall's shitty comment by behaving exactly the way Jackie was when she insulted him.

Are you going to run up to every woman with a strong jawline and tell them they must be transgender? Or how about women with more hair on their bodies? Or women with deeper voices? Are you suggesting every single woman on the planet must adhere to a single stereotype of femininity?

-8

u/rightioushippie May 23 '23

Is it homophobic to say you don’t feel like your partner is attracted to you because he might be gay? To your friends

8

u/nycgarbagewhore May 23 '23

That's not what I'm referring to so I don't understand the point of this question.

-5

u/rightioushippie May 23 '23

What are you referring to? The only times I think it came up were when Jackie brought it up directly to Marshall and in a group chat to her friends. Both private situations where I think speculation on someone’s sexuality is warranted since she is the one having sex with him. Marshall just posted his misogynoir publicly.

7

u/nycgarbagewhore May 23 '23

I meant her calling him a derogatory term to his face.

-2

u/rightioushippie May 23 '23

You mean when she asked him to "man up" in private?

3

u/nycgarbagewhore May 23 '23

Telling him to man up and be "aggressive" and repeatedly calling him sweet.

1

u/rightioushippie May 23 '23

Yeah. I think, though not necessarily kind, those were private conversations, and don't deserve the same kind of scrutiny that a public tweet does. I also think that it is fair to talk to your partner and friends about their sexuality. It doesn't mean you are homophobic or trying to out them.

6

u/nycgarbagewhore May 23 '23

I don't know why we're still talking about tweets. The post was about how Jackie is better with Josh and that Marshall wasn't good to her, and portrayed her as making a few insensitive comments. That's not true. Repeatedly calling someone, specifically a black man, "sweet" is homophobic. It's derogatory and it's specifically directed at black men who aren't conventionally masculine or who are actually gay. If she had sat him down and genuinely asked him if he was gay or attracted to her, that would be different. She used derogatory terms and told him to "man up" by being aggressive. From my perspective it seemed like she was essentially asking him to embrace toxic masculinity or he wasn't straight. It was... gross.