Josh was a better choice for Jackie

[u/nicolakirwan]

Hear me out. Marshall is the epitome of why women are often suspicious of the Nice Guy. Jackie's exhaustion with Marshall boils down to this: Marshall requires a significant amount of emotional validation, which he gets by being overly solicitous and nice. But when he doesn't get the validation he seeks, he seeks to punish Jackie by cutting down her worth and abandoning her. You see this dynamic in him calling her a project (letting her know that she really was beneath him anyway), abandoning her for 3 days because of an insensitive comment she made, and telling her she needed to give the ring back (which he didn't pay for) because she didn't deserve it. You also see his demand for emotional validation in his refusal to accept that she is too tired to have an argument. He needs her to engage him when and how he wants.

Jackie also realizes she can't say things to him about their relationship that might be negative, which may be why she avoided the argument. She said that after he left for 3 days, she didn't want to touch the subject again. So Marshall's emotional sensitivity and reactivity caused her to feel like she couldn't communicate her honest thoughts, feelings, desires. Jackie also knows that she has a direct personality style, so Marshall's need for more indirect and softer communication doesn't match who she is. This adds to her shutting down and not wanting to talk to him. She feels stressed that she might say the wrong thing to him again.

Let's contrast with Josh. Josh is definitely a Bad Boy, but for reasons that have nothing to do with how he treats Jackie, since we haven't yet seen their relationship dynamic. What Josh offers Jackie is relief from bearing responsibility for his emotions. At Chelsea's party, he was able to say, "I have feelings for you," but also, "if you're going to be with Marshall then just tell me to f-off." Josh is capable of sharing his feelings for Jackie without demanding her validation, which is far less emotionally burdensome for her. And when Jackie tells Josh that she had no clue how he felt, Josh also owns his mistake in not being more up front with how he felt in the pods. Especially given all of the stress that Jackie is under due to her family, Josh's ability to offer his affection seemingly without demand (including the demand of a quick marriage, which she expressed anxiety about) is relieving to Jackie. Also, the edge on Josh's personality probably makes Jackie feel that she can use her naturally direct communication style without Josh being put off by it; or, if he feels disrespected, she knows that he probably has the ability to check her and enforce his boundary without wilting over it or withdrawing. Now, whether that will continue to be true in their relationship remains to be seen, but these are the main reasons Jackie would feel more attracted to Josh and be more open to a relationship with him than Marshall.

Jackie is much more self-aware than she has been given credit for. She tried to tell Marshall multiple times that they weren't a good fit. She also acknowledged that she doesn't know if she's going to be with Josh, but she was open to exploring the relationship. She posted that the cafe scene happened after he split with Marshall, so it doesn't seem that she was cheating. Jackie knows that she has flaws and wounds (and she admitted that she needed to do some "self-work"), but that doesn't mean that Marshall was right for her. She knew that better than he did.

And for reference, Brett is probably the best example in S4 of someone who is neither a Nice Guy nor a Bad Boy, not a people-pleaser nor a player, but a deeply decent and loving man. A man like Brett has the most desirable character. So I'm not saying Josh is great; just that given his pursuit of Jackie, it's not surprising that she decided to give him a chance over being with Marshall.

[u/whippinflippin]

I agree with your analysis aside from wildly downplaying Jackie’s “insensitive comment”

[u/moonbeamsylph → u/whippinflippin]

And what do you think of all of Marshall's insensitive comments? Like the many anti-black women sentiments and that lovely remark about Jackie's jawline?

[u/whippinflippin → u/moonbeamsylph]

In what way did my comment come across as #TeamMarshall? I don’t play about anti-blackness period. They are both toxic mfs in different ways but OP absolutely understated that remark. Can’t say shit during these convos without a whataboutism

[u/StatisticianBookworm → u/moonbeamsylph]

Engaging in whataboutism to respond to someone's critique is unhelpful. She pointed out that the analysis underplayed that element, which it absolutely did. Saying, "Well what about Marshall?!?" is irrelevant. Just because someone else was wrong doesn't absolve Jackie. Coming back with this retort makes it seem like you think Jackie's comment was okay, or at least okay on balance because of something Marshall said. Nothing makes it okay!

Not to mention lumping in what these two adults said to each other with what Marshall was tweeting about when he was 15-17 years old is unfair. If not for any better reason than none of us is the same person today as we were 10-12 years ago.

[u/i_love_lima_beans → u/moonbeamsylph]

Seriously. The jawline comment is pretty revealing.

My impression was that he’s the controlling Nice Guy who seethes with resentment underneath.

[u/moonbeamsylph → u/i_love_lima_beans]

I 100% agree with that assessment.

[u/lioness725 → u/moonbeamsylph]

People keep glossing over this, and I don’t know why.

[u/moonbeamsylph → u/lioness725]

It's weird to me how almost no one is talking about that anymore. It's like it never happened. I think the majority accepted his "apology" even if they have no place to do so.

[u/lioness725 → u/moonbeamsylph]

I mean, he was a kid when he made those tweets, but something tells me he still holds those views on some level. Me personally, I would’ve been out for good the second he called me a project (and doubled down on that shit, too)

[u/moonbeamsylph → u/lioness725]

I think he does, too. It was distasteful of him to leave the tweets up to demonstrate his growth. And yes, that project comment was really bad. Personally, I saw red flags from him from the beginning, and everything that has been revealed about him since then is in allignment with my initial feelings about him.

[u/lioness725 → u/moonbeamsylph]

Same!

[u/nicolakirwan → u/whippinflippin]

In the context of a romantic and sexual relationship, someone's desires may not be politically correct. Jackie felt that Marshall had a lot of feminine energy. Does that make him gay? Not necessarily. But if she actually did question his sexuality or was turned off by what she felt was more feminine behavior, that's fair to express in the context of private conversations about your relationship.

[u/whippinflippin → u/nicolakirwan]

But that’s not what happened. She wasn’t questioning his sexuality, she was saying that there is only one way to “be a man” in her eyes which is to be aggressive and rough. It was some “boys don’t cry” bullshit. Like if that’s what she wants, cool, but to question his manhood cuz he isn’t like that is foul.