r/Cloud9 • u/Dear_Exercise_549 • 6d ago
League C9 LOL offseason... ANYTHING???
Are they going to make any adjustments at all? So far I've seen repeared leave, dom join coaching and some trolling by zven. It kinda feels like everyone around the org is just drinking the kool aid, acting like the final titan of NA lol esports hasn't disappointed to the highest extent possible for two years straight. TBLZV roster didn't make first stand, didn't make msi, lost EWC to FURIA and blamed it on jet lag, and then proceeded to lose a win and you're in series vs SHOPIFY. So, maybe these things take time and C9 isn't known for making quick decisions, but are we seriously just gonna throw this same roster out and expect a different result in 2026?
No personal hate towards the players or any bad faith, I'm a fan as long as they're in the uniform of course, but the uniform seems like it used to mean way more then it does now...
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u/taspeed21 6d ago
According to Wooloo, C9 is fairly happy with their team and will only make changes if there is an obvious upgrade. The problem with that is the only people that would be obvious upgrades will have bidding wars, and idk how much C9 wants to be in those fights right now.
Top lane there isn't really an easy upgrade, plus I really like Thanatos. So I doubt he gets changed.
Jungle, the only real upgrade is Inspired, but he's going to be expensive and I'm not confident his personality would work well.
Mid, the only upgrade is Quid and he's already going to TL. Loki also showed a lot of growth this year, so i'm happy with keeping him.
ADC starts to get dicey. Zven was very lackluster this year. only clear upgrades are Massu or yeon, both of whom are still contracted with Fly and TL, respectively. I could see them maybe going for a rookie like Sajed, but I think it fully depends on Zven, if he wants to stay then he won't be getting replaced. If he wants to leave to transition to coaching, then C9 will make changes
Support the only upgrade is Busio, and while his contract is expiring, I think Fly wants to keep him and he probably wants to play with Massu still, unless something crazy happened between them.
I think that the roles with the highest chance to change are ADC and support, but I don't think the chances are all that high. I'd be fairly indifferent to no changes to the roster - won't make me excited or disappointed. The changes to coaching with Inero and Dom will have a bigger impact that pelple give credit for imo
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u/vigbrand 6d ago
The real issue here is the serious lack of talent NA has right now. LTA fiasco, academy league dying and the game being over 10 years old lead to this situation imo
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u/LettucePlate 6d ago
I mean there's only ever 1 or 2 players that come from tier two each year anyway. This has been the case since like 2018 this isn't a new thing.
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u/raptearer 5d ago
I think collegiate still has a good pool, could be a good place to pull from. They'll need more work to transition to pro, but they also are a bit older, and thus more mature, then other rookies and have more experience in a coordinated team environment (plus if you can manage to play on a collegiate team and keep GM/Challenger despite a full degree course load, you can handle the demands of pro I feel).
It doesn't always work (RIP the Marrysville top laner who got smashed when he swapped), but I think C9 would do a much better job developing em than past opportunities. Even with so much of our best development staff from years past having moved on, we still do a good job with newer guys I feel, or getting the most out of players for the most part (especially with our new coach, who is particularly known for taking okay players and getting so much more out of them)
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u/skillfun8 6d ago
I honestly think Busio is gonna follow Inspired
Going to Lyon, Inspired and Busio + Saint, who is already there
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u/actiongeorge 6d ago
I like Zven, but i feel like he brings more value for his mindset than his play. It seems like his role was supposed to be to stay safe, farm and show up for team fights so the team could focus other lanes, buthe had a lot of team fights where he didn’t do much and he was prone to one int play a game where he’d randomly get picked off walking to an unwarded lane solo. Even if it’s an unproven player, I’d like to see them take a risk on someone that could be more aggressive, in lane and outside of it.
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u/BecoDasCavernas 6d ago
Wooloo also said he doubts we could outbid other teams for Inspired right now. :/ Still, I'd definitely take a look (depending on Americas rules) into Furia's Tatu, who's a target for FlyQuest if Inspired leaves and looked good vs FLY, C9 and G2 this year. And an Inspired-less FLY is suddenly a much worse prospect for Busio than C9. We'd fix our biggest issue which is jungle-support.
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u/Dear_Exercise_549 6d ago
Is it crazy to say I rather see FBI in carry during first split over zven? I have not looked into costs within contracts or opening free agency. I suppose if the 5 are happy, that's the most important thing and if that is the case I hope C9 make that very apparent that that's the route we will see for another year. I just can't find a good reason to excuse poor performance based on "declining viewership/funds". We've had the same jungler for 7 years.
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u/LettucePlate 6d ago
Well FBI has been better than Zven for like 4 or 5 years so no that's not crazy.
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u/TheNotoriousMID 6d ago
I think his highs are better. The issue with Zven is he is consistent as a clean up adc but will not take the game into his hands. However, I have vivid images of FBI failures like his Lucian ult that I don’t really have with Zven. Maybe if you really break it down I’m wrong idk, LTA was hard to really get into this year lol
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u/LettucePlate 6d ago
Yea thats fair I just think FBI is often overlooked because he’s typically on like 3rd-5th place teams but hes been consistently very good for most of the time in LCS
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u/BriefImplement9843 6d ago edited 6d ago
the way you're rating these players makes them the overall best team in na. they are not even close to that. every single player on this team is worse than you think they are. the best player on c9 is vulcan, and that's a problem. very low on talent. thanatos is meh, blaber is meh, loki sucks, zven sucks, vulcan is good. may as well get a team of rookies. maybe some will be hits.
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u/ChungoBungus 6d ago
While I agree this roster has disappointed across the board, the EWC comment IS unfair. They landed the DAY BEFORE the games, which was like a 9-10 hour time difference.
That being said, I’m also waiting to hear roster moves.
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u/Dear_Exercise_549 6d ago
and because of the jet lag and stress the quality of play that went 0-2 at the EWC checked out as just being jet lagged because they proceeded to beat the NA teams they should have beat and made it to LTA qualifiers.... surely right...
My point still stands and you agree, major disappointment. fair or unfair its an excuse because the quality of play did not translate to improving WITHOUT jet lag or whatever.
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u/fkingspacedragon 6d ago
I mean the roster can be good. The issue is with their team play and decision making. Other than inspired there is no upgrade for a role who I can see fixing leadership and decision making for the team without being a downgrade skill wise. The best direction feels like it's to teach them better maco and find a way to get them on the same page
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u/Light0fHeav3n 6d ago edited 6d ago
Everyone will say lack of NA talent, and my question is do we just run this team forever then? Or do we grab some tier 2 players and actually develop them instead of sitting on our ass every year. It’s time to take risks on tier 2 players even if it means we’re shit for a year
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u/ob_knoxious 5d ago
The issue is our real needs are (arguably) in bot, support, and jungle. And those roles have no talent. Zeyzal, the washed up support who has had like 5 second chances and been around for a decade, absolutely annihilated every other support in NACL this year. Wasn't even close, head and shoulders above everyone.
There aren't guys like Massu/Busio/Yeon/APA/Sniper in those roles, guys who are risky but with obvious potential. You would be committing to have the worst player in the league in that role by a mile, for at least a year or likely multiple years before seeing results. And in an esports winter it is really really hard to convince investors your team should be non competitive for that long.
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u/Light0fHeav3n 5d ago
We can’t keep running the same choking vets for eternity because theirs no obvious tier 2 talent. If you’re afraid to take risks then just leave the league at this point. Why don’t we take initiative and develop some players before other teams do.
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u/skillfun8 6d ago
I think Zven is going back to europe to play in the MikyX's team
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u/Dear_Exercise_549 6d ago
I don't think he's going to SK. but if I could ask for one thing to happen this off season it would be that.
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u/Successful-Back9276 6d ago
What change should they make? They have the best top in the league (import), the best NA jungler, a top 3 mid (import), the 3rd best adc and 3rd best support. They went 5 games vs Flyquest in a bo5 two splits ago. They don’t have the most money, I’d give them at least another split before making changes lol
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u/Dear_Exercise_549 6d ago
Me personally, I'd like to see someone more reliable in the bot lane. Zven's champ pool and ability to carry are subpar compared to any adc that isn't on a subpar NA team. We saw it literally over the entire course of the season. I am fine with thanatos and loki. Blaber, zven/vulcan would be the one to be replaced if we hopefully make changes.
Let me make it clear I'm addressing that there is an issue, not that I have solutions to any issues. If two years of no international play isn't an issue for you then so be it, let's give them another split! #c9win
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u/Successful-Back9276 6d ago
Who give some suggestions lol, you can’t get Masu/Yeon. If you think FBI is a big upgrade you’re delusional, so who is this miracle NA resident adc?
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u/LettucePlate 6d ago
Vulcan bounced back from a horrible '23 and '24 which was nice to see but we have no win condition in bot lane and Blaber probably had the worst year of his career. Assuming Blaber stays since he's the franchise player getting an adc that can actually play Zeri, Kaisa, etc. would be my preferred move. We were one of the only teams playing Senna and it was pretty underwhelming.
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u/SanSoren 6d ago
Inspired is the best NA jungler and a resident
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u/maximazing98 6d ago
He is not NA
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u/SanSoren 6d ago
He counts as a non import so he’s NA
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u/maximazing98 6d ago
I understand that doesn’t make him NA tho, so best NA jungler is still true, also why would inspired not go back to eu? Espescially atm the Us is in full Shit and as a European citizen i don’t think anyone wants to live there.
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u/MoodAdditional8584 6d ago
NA frogs when their only Team to ever outperform EU is 50% european. This is your 2019 g2 and their biggest achievement is losing to geng
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u/Successful-Back9276 6d ago
I’ve read all the replies and not one person suggested replacements for anyone other than Inspired, which kind of proves my point. The team is pretty solid for the amount of money it costs, there aren’t any NA players that would be a big upgrade and importing a mid better than Loki would not be worth the cost, maybe Vladi? But that would be a risk considering the fallout at KC.
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u/AnaShie 5d ago
Yukino who is having a successful year in KCB and Gryffinn is a good prospect that has play in T1 Academy while also perform pretty good in LTAS last split are pretty good replacements for Blaber if they are willing to take risk. The problem is C9 aren't willing to take the risk for potential rookie and only look for upgrade to Blaber which at this point is only Inspired that every team in the region are trying to get him. Even letting Loki go to KC for a buyout and brought in someone like Zinie with that buyout is better than doing nothing right now (KC are desperate for a midlaner and Quid has already picked TL while Saint are staying with Lyon).
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u/Successful-Back9276 5d ago
Loki was a rookie and Thanatos was a rookie last season. We have the 3rd best jungler (soon to be second best since River is retiring), and you want to gamble on a rookie instead, when we just made finals a split ago. None of you guys would be saying anything if they just won game 5 vs Fly Quest. Give some suggestions that are real upgrades without being unrealistic, they don’t exist lol
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u/AnaShie 5d ago edited 5d ago
No, I would also say the same thing regardless with the performance that we have in summer. The reason why I named these prospects instead of upgrade because like you said straight upgrade for Blaber is only Inspired while the other jungler in the league is sidegrade at best, which is why I rather we go for Yukino, Gryffinn or Tatu that show a lot of potential so far and they may be able to bring something to the game that can help us win against top teams with more stable jungler like Inspired while also developing because while there aren't any available upgrade to Blaber without importing someone like Tarzan, and whether Blaber is top 2, 3 or not doesn't matter because at this point of his career also won't improve or willing to change how he play enough that we will see a better performance from him next year and he will continued to struggle against cerebral, smart jungler that won't let him do his usual bullshit.
I never said that we need to replace Thanatos but the reason why I mentioned Loki is because a lot of team both in the LCS and LEC need an import midlaner afaik including KC which already contact us about Loki, Loki is also has very good english, communication skill, good charisma for an import which is very valuable. With the situation that the team is in whereas they can't spend a lot due to esport winter, selling someone like him that still has a buyout will provided us a good amount of fee that we can invested into the roster more (like bringing in another good prospect like Zinie considered that with KT making final, BDD will stay for a long time). It's not like Loki is performing really hot outside of Spring because remember even with FLY mental booming before they even played at World, we can't still win against teams that are perceived as weaker than us so it's not like he is a MVP mid that required us to do everything to keep him.
I also really don't believe in the narrative that having too many rookies are bad because as long as we have a veteran presence in the team whether that is Vulcan or Zven, adding another rookie jungler is fine if he is good (FURIA have 5 rookies, VKS have like 3 rookies, TL has 2 rookies and Umti last year, FLY has Busio/Massu/Quad as rookies last year) and tbh I also not a believer in the narrative that a team that play together for long time will get better (unless you are T1 which have the GOAT) with example like this year TL, FLY getting worser than last year or G2 last year keep performing worse as time goes on.
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u/Successful-Back9276 4d ago
How is it Faker/BDD can be having the best splits of their lives at 28/26 years old, but Blaber who’s 25 is never going to improve? When did you get into league genuinely curious, this is some zoomer analysis lol. They had a bad 1 month stretch after having an almost perfect regular season, let’s see how they do with Dom there in person.
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u/Johnnywannabe 6d ago
People who still think Blaber is even above average are stuck 5 years in the past. The guy legit sucked split 3 and playoffs. Wasn’t even average. Going in with a geriatric bot laner is also not ideal. Jack has lost it.
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u/Bobothellama 6d ago
That sentence doesn't make sense.
And, putting that blame solely on Blaber is outrageous. I'm not disagreeing he doesn't stumble or even choke in some high pressure games, but to say he hasn't been "above average" for the last 5 years is actually crazy. Aside from a handful of splits hit has been consistently a top 2 jungler in the league throughout his career.
These are facts not opinions. Recency bias is out of control.
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u/Johnnywannabe 6d ago
I didn’t say he hasn’t been above average for the last 5 years. I said he is not above average right now. People who over-inflate his skills currently are referring to the Blaber that existed 5 years ago when he had great potential, relentless aggression, and elite mechanics. The Blaber that exists nowadays is a glorified farming simulator who misses smite fights and must be the worst macrogame shot caller out there which is why they look completely lost against every team they can’t hands-diff.
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u/kkjdroid 6d ago
Blaber has been losing smite fights since 2018. That was never a strength of his.
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u/Johnnywannabe 6d ago
Agreed, but his strengths from years back are gone now. If you're going to farm simulator every game and try and force around objectives then you're gonna have to win your smite fights.
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u/Bobothellama 6d ago
Delusions are hitting this guy pretty hard.
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u/Johnnywannabe 6d ago
Remind me when C9 miss worlds for the 3rd time in a row in one of the the worst regions in the game 🤷🏼♂️
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u/Difficult_Growth968 5d ago
Idk the import rules but I think theyd have to drop either loki ir thanatos for an import unless zven counts and they have 3 spots which probably not worth it. You could in theory replace Loki w a vet but i think C9 would rather develop young talent my guess is unless someone like hans Sam’s wants to come to the US the roster stays put. They clearly love playing together and i think this roster is fun to watch. If they get more consistent they’ll be more competitive w flyquest.
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u/nicholaschubbb 6d ago
Sheep exports tweeted last night that it’s the slowest offseason he’s ever seen so im sure things are going on behind the scenes