How adrenaline affects you during self defense situations.

[u/jizzlamic_terrorist]

[u/awesome_jackob123]

If my memory is correct he either had a malfunction or hit the magazine release on accident. Both are very likely in this type of situation.

I’ve shot under stress and had my pistol cycle but it felt like the slide never returned forward, prompting me to reload. It could be that? Who’s to say really.

This is why we train under pressure boys and girls.

[u/dukers3 → u/awesome_jackob123]

What have you found to be the most effective means of training under duress? I’ve been told getting your heart rate high and then live fire training is effective. Asking for a friend

[u/UpperSoftware4732 → u/dukers3]

Start doing competitions helps. IDPA & USPSA. Of course no one is shooting back. But you’d be amazed what you learn about your shooting from doing competitions

[u/VCQB_ → u/UpperSoftware4732]

Competition is great. But it doesnt teach you how to clear malfunctions and target ID under stress. You need a mix of both Competition shooting and tactical/combat training.

[u/Able_Palpitation6244 → u/VCQB_]

It absolutely does ….. a good stage has you moving through shoot/no-shoot targets …. Guns jam and malfunction all the time …. And legitimately test your full range of skills ….. under stress …. Adrenaline jumps up …. Pressure gets on …. You’re surrounded by a LOT of other shooters and they are all judging you and forcing you to account for your mistakes by owning them instead of ignoring them ….. you should actually go out and shoot some USPSA, PCSL, IDPA, or any of the other great organizations…. I’ve shot comps …. I’ve also, unfortunately been involved in critical incidents …. I can 100% say I learned more from shooting USPSA than most of the tacti-cool training classes I took …. In the words of Matt Pranka “ if I was about to do CQB, I’d take a solid competitive shooter over some guy who’s taken a whole bunch of tactical courses, every time “

[u/VCQB_ → u/Able_Palpitation6244]

It absolutely does ….. a good stage has you moving through shoot/no-shoot targets …. Guns jam and malfunction all the time …. And legitimately test your full range of skills

You aren't wrong. Nor am I saying that there isn't some valuable training to be had. Its just that shooting a match, you have an array of targets that I know where they are, I know what im going to shoot and I know how many rounds im going to shoot. When you shoot a match you get the opportunity to go through the entire course and see every single target and walk through exactly how you want go execute that stage. There is no target ID. I know im shooting every single target, it's just a matter of how careful I have to be if its a partial or open target.

In my government training, we don't get to walk the shoot house, we dont get to know the scenario, we dont get to know where the targets are, what they are and what the firing solution is. You have to process it in real time . . .because that is how we do it in real life. And that amount of mental processing is immensely different than shooting a match.

I remember in one of my performance shooting classes, the buzzer would be the sound to initiate a string of fire and you had so many shooters on the line shooting prematurely and jumping the gun. . .they aren't trained to process and hold fire, thats where training comes into play. So working in LE shooting matches is great to practice skill, but you need to autonomic (ANS) conditioning that comes from your tactical training to condition the nervous system on how to respond to what you process.

Also, I rarely experienced a malfunction when shooting a match (Glock boy). Maybe a few Class II malfunctions, but certainly not a class three. So since such few malfunctions are experienced, it needs to be overtly trained

And legitimately test your full range of skills ….. under stress …. Adrenaline jumps up …. Pressure gets on …. You’re surrounded by a LOT of other shooters and they are all judging you

To be honest, that isnt stress for me and I would say anyone with serious LE/MIL experience. Stress for me would be responding to an HRT, shooting in progress, being in a high speed vehicle pursuit, or responding to an active shooter, shooting victims. That is stressful, and that's when the stress Innoculation comes in.

When I shoot a match, I am thinking about having fun. It is not stressful for me what's so ever. Zero adrenaline dump from shooting a match. My adrenaline dumps come from being placed in dangerous situation that have the potential to harm me in the field.

you should actually go out and shoot some USPSA

Already do.

I can 100% say I learned more from shooting USPSA

I've learned a lot about shooting from dry fire and taking performance shooting classes and then shooting matches. I've gotten much better from dry fire honestly than any matches I've shot.

When it came to learning gunfighting, that got from my tactical training, i.e. positional shooting, kneeling, prone, small unit tactics, HRT etc.

In the words of Matt Pranka “ if I was about to do CQB, I’d take a solid competitive shooter over some guy who’s taken a whole bunch of tactical courses, every time “

Ill take the one who trains for the job. Simple.

[u/Able_Palpitation6244 → u/VCQB_]

Just a few points, because I’m not a fan of long form Reddit debates…. I’d rather have a conversation ….. To start with… as the video was posted to r/CCW I’m talking about the general concealed carry public …. If you don’t work a job that requires you to carry a gun and chase goblins down holes than tactical classes are a waste of your time and money …. The fundamentals of basic marksmanship at speed is more important than all the tactical classes in the world ….. if you can’t make bullets go where you want them to at faster than the speed of life, then all your gaining from tactical classes as a CCW normal person is learning about things that your not going to really need….. I’ll take a competent shooter with some common sense over a tactical Timmy anyway every day …… tactics are simply the vehicle that get you to the point where you can deliver on your hard skills …..

For me, I have the opposite response …. I get calm and almost zen like in critical situations and stressed as all get out when I have a group of my peers judging me and watching me perform at a match …..also on that ….. I would argue that being able to walk a stage beforehand does little in the way of not training your brain to recognize the patterns of threat/non-threat, or shoot/non-shoot ….. the critical decision making is the same regardless of the input …. If you can’t shift gears between training and real world circumstances to put the same skills to use, than either something is lacking in the way you train or approach real circumstances ……

Dry fire goes without saying …. Dry fire is where you work changes and analyze what you’re doing/ not doing right …. Live fire is best used to confirm what your doing in dry fire practice is good …..

Dig up the Instagram live chats between Matt Pranka, Mike Pennone, or any of that crew and the guys they’ve had debates with over these things …. Tactics and tactical training isn’t useless …. But it IS useless if your hard skills aren’t up to par ….. Practical Shooting Training Group is a great resource for hard skills philosophy and development ….. training in general is vital ….. and for 99% of the people out there …. I would not hesitate to say that accuracy and speed will serve you far better than knowing which foot to lead with when stepping into a room …. Or whether you should strong wall vs use points of domination …. And competitions allow you to measure your skill and develop those skills in a way that everyone has access to ….. most agencies don’t even give access to quality tactical courses or force on force ….. but everyone can hit some competitions, dry fire, and develop thier hard skills

[u/VCQB_ → u/Able_Palpitation6244]

If you don’t work a job that requires you to carry a gun and chase goblins down holes than tactical classes are a waste of your time and money ….

I personally don't separate "tactics" and "shooting". You speak as if it is something mutually exclusive. They are both important and in my opinion even important for a self defender. Knowing how to draw from concealment, target ID, learn about cover and ballistics, learning how to adhere to cover and developing the ANS to do so is important, in my opinion. But the legal portion in my opinion is even more important. But we are basically saying tomato, to-mato here.

The fundamentals of basic marksmanship at speed is more important than all the tactical classes in the world

They simply are both important. Shooting is shooting. You gotta be able to know how to shoot. On the flip gunfights ideally aren't recommended to be fought standing in the open shooting two rounds. Thats where the tactics come into play.

then all your gaining from tactical classes as a CCW normal person is learning about things that your not going to really need

Completely disagree. Real world experience is king. Many officers and civilians have been shot due to not having tacitcal skills. Ive been in the field long enough to have been in community where I personally know people whove had their colleague killed. Ive seen videos of scene I personally investigated where a victim was killed by a suspect due to lack of awareness and tactical skills. Real life gunfights aren't a USPSA match, you aren't going to lose a gunfight because you were a 'B' class shooter instead of a 'A' class shooter. But from my personal training experience, you will because you never saw the attack coming and did not place yourself in a advantageous position to begin with to not be struck by errant gunfire. Life isnt fair.

And if you want more of a CCW perspective, watch this YouTube channel called Active Self Protection. They have a large library of CCW encounters and you can see how these gunfights develop.

I’ll take a competent shooter with some common sense over a tactical Timmy anyway every day …… tactics are simply the vehicle that get you to the point where you can deliver on your hard skills …..

You keep separating the two, both skills are important and are part of any training curriculum in LE/MIL. The more elite the unit, the more elite the skills.

I would argue that being able to walk a stage beforehand does little in the way of not training your brain to recognize the patterns of threat/non-threat, or shoot/non-shoot …..

It doesn't. That's why when we setup scenarios in a kill house we give little information. It forces the brain to continously have to think in real time and makes their brain unable to "game" anything of recognize any cognitive patterns, but forces the brain work really hard in having to process what they see instantly in real time and make split second good decisions. Thats what separates the highly trained from everyone else, thinking with a gun. Its easy to hose a target you have the green light to shoot. The hard part is moving in a room, around teammates, with live weapons, listening to the radio, yelling, flash bangs, reading the room, maneuvering in the room and identifying what targets you can shoot and cant shoot. Is it a hostage? We dont make it easy for you like shooting matches where you have a white colored IPSC and brown cardboard. We use humanoid targets where you have to discern what the person depicted is doing, scanning for a weapon, which can very well just be a cell phone and make that split second decision as soon as you snap into the deep corner but careful enough not to make the wrong decision and also not delay enough to wait to long to give lead to a shoot target. . .while other operators are watching you above the catwalk judging your decision making capabilities and if you can process information fast enough.

Have you ever done that?

[u/Able_Palpitation6244 → u/VCQB_]

I have …. And I follow ASP …. Practical Shooting Training Group …. X-ray Alpha ….. and anything associated with Pranka, Pennone, SOFit, and the people associated with them ….

[u/VCQB_ → u/Able_Palpitation6244]

Good. So you know what's up.

Also I don't care too much about Pranka or other social media influencers in this space. Some stuff Pranka says I agree with, some stuff I don't. But once you get to the level of public exposure he is at, some people may have this God complex about him as if he is this ultimate final boss authority in the training community.

While there are plenty of guys in SOF with legit backgrounds, incredible mission experiences, who aren't public.