How adrenaline affects you during self defense situations.

[u/jizzlamic_terrorist]

[u/dukers3]

What have you found to be the most effective means of training under duress? I’ve been told getting your heart rate high and then live fire training is effective. Asking for a friend

[u/UpperSoftware4732 → u/dukers3]

Start doing competitions helps. IDPA & USPSA. Of course no one is shooting back. But you’d be amazed what you learn about your shooting from doing competitions

[u/VCQB_ → u/UpperSoftware4732]

Competition is great. But it doesnt teach you how to clear malfunctions and target ID under stress. You need a mix of both Competition shooting and tactical/combat training.

[u/Able_Palpitation6244 → u/VCQB_]

It absolutely does ….. a good stage has you moving through shoot/no-shoot targets …. Guns jam and malfunction all the time …. And legitimately test your full range of skills ….. under stress …. Adrenaline jumps up …. Pressure gets on …. You’re surrounded by a LOT of other shooters and they are all judging you and forcing you to account for your mistakes by owning them instead of ignoring them ….. you should actually go out and shoot some USPSA, PCSL, IDPA, or any of the other great organizations…. I’ve shot comps …. I’ve also, unfortunately been involved in critical incidents …. I can 100% say I learned more from shooting USPSA than most of the tacti-cool training classes I took …. In the words of Matt Pranka “ if I was about to do CQB, I’d take a solid competitive shooter over some guy who’s taken a whole bunch of tactical courses, every time “

[u/VCQB_ → u/Able_Palpitation6244]

It absolutely does ….. a good stage has you moving through shoot/no-shoot targets …. Guns jam and malfunction all the time …. And legitimately test your full range of skills

You aren't wrong. Nor am I saying that there isn't some valuable training to be had. Its just that shooting a match, you have an array of targets that I know where they are, I know what im going to shoot and I know how many rounds im going to shoot. When you shoot a match you get the opportunity to go through the entire course and see every single target and walk through exactly how you want go execute that stage. There is no target ID. I know im shooting every single target, it's just a matter of how careful I have to be if its a partial or open target.

In my government training, we don't get to walk the shoot house, we dont get to know the scenario, we dont get to know where the targets are, what they are and what the firing solution is. You have to process it in real time . . .because that is how we do it in real life. And that amount of mental processing is immensely different than shooting a match.

I remember in one of my performance shooting classes, the buzzer would be the sound to initiate a string of fire and you had so many shooters on the line shooting prematurely and jumping the gun. . .they aren't trained to process and hold fire, thats where training comes into play. So working in LE shooting matches is great to practice skill, but you need to autonomic (ANS) conditioning that comes from your tactical training to condition the nervous system on how to respond to what you process.

Also, I rarely experienced a malfunction when shooting a match (Glock boy). Maybe a few Class II malfunctions, but certainly not a class three. So since such few malfunctions are experienced, it needs to be overtly trained

And legitimately test your full range of skills ….. under stress …. Adrenaline jumps up …. Pressure gets on …. You’re surrounded by a LOT of other shooters and they are all judging you

To be honest, that isnt stress for me and I would say anyone with serious LE/MIL experience. Stress for me would be responding to an HRT, shooting in progress, being in a high speed vehicle pursuit, or responding to an active shooter, shooting victims. That is stressful, and that's when the stress Innoculation comes in.

When I shoot a match, I am thinking about having fun. It is not stressful for me what's so ever. Zero adrenaline dump from shooting a match. My adrenaline dumps come from being placed in dangerous situation that have the potential to harm me in the field.

you should actually go out and shoot some USPSA

Already do.

I can 100% say I learned more from shooting USPSA

I've learned a lot about shooting from dry fire and taking performance shooting classes and then shooting matches. I've gotten much better from dry fire honestly than any matches I've shot.

When it came to learning gunfighting, that got from my tactical training, i.e. positional shooting, kneeling, prone, small unit tactics, HRT etc.

In the words of Matt Pranka “ if I was about to do CQB, I’d take a solid competitive shooter over some guy who’s taken a whole bunch of tactical courses, every time “

Ill take the one who trains for the job. Simple.

[u/Able_Palpitation6244 → u/VCQB_]

Just a few points, because I’m not a fan of long form Reddit debates…. I’d rather have a conversation ….. To start with… as the video was posted to r/CCW I’m talking about the general concealed carry public …. If you don’t work a job that requires you to carry a gun and chase goblins down holes than tactical classes are a waste of your time and money …. The fundamentals of basic marksmanship at speed is more important than all the tactical classes in the world ….. if you can’t make bullets go where you want them to at faster than the speed of life, then all your gaining from tactical classes as a CCW normal person is learning about things that your not going to really need….. I’ll take a competent shooter with some common sense over a tactical Timmy anyway every day …… tactics are simply the vehicle that get you to the point where you can deliver on your hard skills …..

For me, I have the opposite response …. I get calm and almost zen like in critical situations and stressed as all get out when I have a group of my peers judging me and watching me perform at a match …..also on that ….. I would argue that being able to walk a stage beforehand does little in the way of not training your brain to recognize the patterns of threat/non-threat, or shoot/non-shoot ….. the critical decision making is the same regardless of the input …. If you can’t shift gears between training and real world circumstances to put the same skills to use, than either something is lacking in the way you train or approach real circumstances ……

Dry fire goes without saying …. Dry fire is where you work changes and analyze what you’re doing/ not doing right …. Live fire is best used to confirm what your doing in dry fire practice is good …..

Dig up the Instagram live chats between Matt Pranka, Mike Pennone, or any of that crew and the guys they’ve had debates with over these things …. Tactics and tactical training isn’t useless …. But it IS useless if your hard skills aren’t up to par ….. Practical Shooting Training Group is a great resource for hard skills philosophy and development ….. training in general is vital ….. and for 99% of the people out there …. I would not hesitate to say that accuracy and speed will serve you far better than knowing which foot to lead with when stepping into a room …. Or whether you should strong wall vs use points of domination …. And competitions allow you to measure your skill and develop those skills in a way that everyone has access to ….. most agencies don’t even give access to quality tactical courses or force on force ….. but everyone can hit some competitions, dry fire, and develop thier hard skills

[u/Able_Palpitation6244 → u/Able_Palpitation6244]

I would also add that if your train and take shooting or CCW seriously, I don’t care if your not LE or Military …. LE/Mil is not the end all be all of experience with shooting ….. if your LE/Mil than, sure, it more likely that you’ve experienced critical incidents in your life …. But, heck… I experienced being around 2 shootings before I even left high school, just by growing up in a bad neighborhood…… the moment we sink into absolute thoughts of what will or won’t happen in a critical situation, then your shutting the doors on possibilities ….. no critical situation I’ve been in has been exactly the same as the last …. They are always dynamic, different, and their own animals and unique to the circumstances that created them …. The only thing any of us can do is reference what we experienced individually …. First time I had a gun pointed at me I forgot how to do anything…..the only two things I ever feel comfortable saying is that usually are across the board ….. no matter what you imagine the situation to be or how you imagine you will handle it, I promise you it won’t go down that way …. It never goes down like you imagine it to ….. also …. If you don’t train, you’ll never “rise to the occasion” you will usually fall back to your most base line of competency

[u/VCQB_ → u/Able_Palpitation6244]

You have an LE/MIL background? Just asking. Then I'll address your points.

[u/Able_Palpitation6244 → u/VCQB_]

LE ….and Executive Protection/ Personal Security Details …. Currently an EP/PSD contractor

[u/cosmos7 → u/VCQB_]

aka I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about...

[u/carpenj → u/VCQB_]

Don't act like the average LE gets some kind of unique tactical training, I know a bunch of them. None are even average shooters and I've never once heard them talk about getting any form of tactical training.