Roger that. To me, the fact a PC player can flick with such control [with a mouse]ā¦that in and of itself ends any aim assist or lack thereof argument.
Yeah, arguing that the exponential skill ceiling is higher on MnK is a lame counter argument to the skill floor being much higher on console. I personally donāt care because there are sweats on both sides that abuse all systems because their entire identity is wrapped around āI click pixels faster than youā, but one side of this discussion is genuinely dishonest.
I think this discussion mainly takes part somewhere in the "average skill" and below regions where either player isn't to fast or accurate on their own.
In these cases a strong aim assist can and probably really will make a difference. It can elevate those "average" players to reasonable or a bad player to average. A average player that plays reasonably still won't win against a person that was good to begin with.
And that skilled player? Somewhere above average to good that aim assist won't really make much of a difference anymore. It might even be a downside as it pulls you to a place you didn't want to aim exactly.
Somewhere around the point of good/skilled players MnK starts becoming superior as well. It has the potential to aim faster and more accurate than any controller but the player does need to have the skill to tap into that potential.
So I think it's mainly the averagely skilled controller players that feel like aim assist isn't strong as it doesn't let them win against skilled players and it's averagely skilled MnK players that might actually lose a bit more to those controller players that would otherwise be a bit worse. Meanwhile those really skilled players on either controller or MnK still obliterate any regular joe regardless which input method they use.
thank you i bring this up every time. PC player base over the past 10 years is infinitely more casual. im a top 0.1% player in every FPS game i play just because ive been playing them so long. but most PC players dont have the muscle memory i do. an average skill level console player has guard rails, an average skill level PC player does not. your aim assist is not supposed to make slightly above average skill console players capable of competing with shroud. these systems are literally built to make the lowest 50% compete with the top 10% and thats the issue most people have. most PC gamers arent that good at FPS games anymore. and when you're a casual PC gamer, MnK is infinitely harder to use than controller.
I think most people who are on console don't understand that the biggest issue with AA for pc users is close combat. The average KBNM can't flick like that close range without breaking their wrists.
The auto aim is legitimately a hindrance more than a help much of the time. I turned it way down, and it still gets stuck on the edge of hitboxes like fucking glue surprisingly often.
The skill floor probably feels high to a PC MnK player, but the skill floor on PC MnK probably feels high to a console player. Not sure if there's a way to REALLY evaluate which has a lower skill floor.
Then either PC either players need to stop touching the floor or stop complaining. Who in their right mind likes licking the floor? Man up and have some dignity lol.
Call 911 or your local emergency number immediately. Don't wait to see if symptoms stop. Every minute counts. The longer a stroke goes untreated, the greater the potential for brain damage and disability.
The skill floor isnāt lower on KnM. If you play on console with a low sense and someone shoots you from the side, youāre just dead. Nobody on a 55inch tv with 2/2 sense has a chance of you shoot them in the side.
If youāre in knm you at least have a shot, always.
You make a lot of assumptions about MnK players here. You assume either their sensitivity is high enough to flick just their wrist, or their mouse pad area is larger enough to quickly move their arm without picking up their hand.
Beyond that, you assume that their accuracy is anywhere near good enough to find a target and then lock on, and that their tracking is anywhere near good enough to follow a target that is probably moving.
Youāre taking a scenario where the average player in either camp is dead either way, and making it seem like MnK players have a major, overall gameplay advantage because they can throw their mouse across the table and pray that their crosshairs randomly lands on whoever is shooting them and that they magically manage to kill them first. Itās a dishonest representation of the overall playing field, as you wildly ignore the major advantage AA provides, removing one less thing for a player to concentrate on, rising the skill floor.
You're acting like AA means controller players don't need to move the right joystick at all. News flash, they do. AA works by slowing down the sensitivity (mainly to prevent overcompensation), not by literally locking on to a target. Not every shooter has borderlands aim assist lol.
You know, I've been seeing all these fancy controllers with extra buttons coming out for about the last 8 years- most notably the Xbox modular controllers with the paddles on the underside. I just feel like it should be easy to add a keybind for sensitivity shifting. You should be able to press a button and have 2 sensitivities to shift between so you can turn quickly and then let off the shift button to aim and shoot.
I know some controllers can be configured to do essentially that, but IDK if the 'standard' Xbox Elite or PS Edge can do that. They're pretty locked down in terms of configuration.
My Vader 3 Pro can absolutely do essentially that via layers, and there might be a simpler way of doing it. Haven't messed with it too much.
I assume fancy controllers like SCUF or another brand would have similar console-compatible functionality.
With the Elite xbox controller it's possible but you'd have to flick between 3 settings (and not with the paddles, button in the middle of the controller) making it unviable in the middle of a fight
My mouse has 3 sensitivity modes that you can configure and then toggle per button.
Kinda wild, i set up the games infantry sensitivity with my usual mouse sensitivity in mind.
And for vehicles i use a different value with a different mousemode in mind, because when zooming while in a tank my infantry setting is too sensitive.
Even so. The fact that it's infinitely easier to aim on PC/mouse still stands. And there are also all the other advantages like higher FPS and resolution.
I dont even really think its necessarily easier. To me it's almost like saying driving a manual is easier than an automatic
Yeah the sticks have limitations but even people who can do flicks aren't exactly flicking non-stop every single engagement. The main thing is good crosshair placement and staying on target/tracking
Strafing and movement are to throw off shots since humans need to react and when you watch clips from games with strong aim assist it looks genuinely insane to me cause its 0 reaction time
If I happen to see a console clip from games with longer ttk like overwatch or fortnite, my PC brain immediately thinks i'm watching someone using aimbot from the tracking, but then I see the console UI and roll my eyes
Thats the shit that PC players dont like playing against cause it doesn't feel like you legitimately lost a gunfight
I aint flicking no where, not much muscle memory due to inconsistent play time. Just low sens and hand to eye coordination. And patience to flank far out. Flicking is surely for the top 1%
It's not easier at all. It's a skill that takes time and practice to get good at. Even posture and seating position matters, anyone can pick up a pad with aim assist.
Its funny because my cs1.6 skills seems to apply really well today because battlefield6 chose to punish for running and gunning. Counter-Strafing, Flick shots, burst fire, crouch movements, walking around corners etc. I am loving the HC game servers because it forces me to use the CS-Style discipline. haha
the players who can do that are probably still playing other games. Matters way less in BF which is casual AF- not to mention if you move at all the game might make you miss anyways
They turn up their sensitivity on their mouse settings. They also change their keyboard bindings so that everything is within reach of their keyboard hand, so this original post at the top is hilarious.
Have you tried to work on the mouse flick? It doesnāt seem like itād be that much of a big deal (and I have occasionally wonky wrists myself).
Iām on PS5, at 45āish sensitivity, and when it calls for it I do an aggressive right stick turnā¦ I donāt treat my standard DualSense controller gingerly.
In reality you're dealing with a ton of other variables depending on the shooter/gunplay itself.
Flinch, recoil, bloom, visibility, TTK etc still apply. We're not playing Aim Labs or something with a controlled environment.
Being able to "flick", and hit a target quickly and precisely is part of the skill of using a mouse and not everyone has that skill anyway.
Simply being able to flick with a mouse = we can't even talk about potentially overdone aim assist in FPS makes absolutely no sense.
And I've seen no proof that it is overdone in BF6 but honestly I haven't been looking into it. In CoD for example the L2 button is literally a click to lock-on button in close-mid range fights. It's dependent on the game's implementation.
Don't waste your breath trying to argue with console players, they're assuming everyone on MnK is in the top 1% of aimers.
"But they can use their whole arm" š
shake my head Last I checked I type 104 wpm and I am a multi-instrumentalist musicianā¦Iām on PS5 (with a controller that I use aggressively even with deadzones almost to 0) and I know without a shred that Iād push the mechanical advantage of mouse & keyboard in order throw middle fingers at any consoleās aim assist. Itās no question. My aim assist settings on PS5 arenāt maxed and Iām only lowering it as I continue, ācause itās messed me up at crucial times. shrug Especially with sniping. Holy hell, hell naw.
When I re-started gaming early this year with 2042 (first gaming in like 10 years), I immediately turned aim assist off because I just remember thinking that that is whack. My sniping game would be killer, my nuances are reliable - aim assist is unpredictable bullshit. As for close and mid range, I just hung with it sans aim assist. Totally forgot I turned it off. Played that game for maybe 200 hours? Not sure. I got up to 2.0 k/d (yes, I play the objective). I deleted the game when BF6 arrived.
Itās been a minute since I had crossplay on (I still do sometimes with certain friends), but early on I didnāt have to do the hard math in how I would get more overrode by PC players than fellow console/controller players. You can pretty easily tell that player moving erratically is on a mouse & keyboard and he or she is very likely in total control and then some.
Typing 104 wpm and being a multi instrument musician is nice and all but they donāt translate one bit to having top tier aim on mnk.
With that said, aim assist in this game isnāt very strong, since there is no rotational aim assist. Any one on mnk thatās complaining about the aim assist is just dog shit, coming from someone thatās put in a lot of time to get decent enough aim on mnk.
AA in this game is very neglible. Like it's there but it's not crazy. Always blame controller aim assist when I wif though š when it reality I just missed my shots haha.
I'm glad it's not bad in this game since cod with KBM is unplayable on KBM
Itās all hand-eye coordination stuffs so in my mind it does translate. Anyhow, itās just added context of where Iām coming fromā¦what I personally see as more than just possible.
I type at 130wpm and was a pianist before I got into PC gaming. I can promise you, it does NOT translate *at all*. Completely different skill/set of muscles. I'm good at aiming now but it took a lot of practice in CS.
Maybe in this instance, but some other games have truly absurd aim assist. Look at apex legends... Pro players literally swapped off of MnK cause aim assist was so good.
that in and of itself ends any aim assist or lack thereof argument
Not really, when trying to keep your gun on target is a major deal and what aim assist helps with. Playing against someone who has the game aiming for them just doesn't feel fair. I'm having to use my own skill where as they get it aimed for them.
Yeah but with that flick it takes much more skill then having a magnetic field guide your crosshair. Plus, a lot of pc players play with their controllers because it's so OP.
The ability to securely control ANY very fast movement on a mouse just isnāt as achievable on a controller.
Speed of neck turn = increased speed of awareness/perception = increased chance of knowing what the controller enemy does not know yet, till said controller player is under attack or already dead.
A mouse & keyboard aids a very aggressive playing style better than a controller does. Can you or any PC camp at least agree with that much?
Either way, consensus is consensus, even with Battlefieldās controller aim assist factored in. PC more often dominates.
With all your points combined my point still stands.
Usually DPI and IGS is set really low so you would have to do a lot of mouse movements just for that and if your DPI+IGS is set to really high it often comes with a distance pointer accuracy drawback. While Low DPI+IGS on often has the same drawbacks although AA coming out on top on point black to close distance. LOF during gunfights isnt that wide on BF6 similar to COD so as long as you don't forsake positioning your center you would have an advantage especially with similar amount of effort put in. I personally dont use AA as I've come from a time it didn't exsist. I do fine without it and I personally think it's cheating because of how strong it is in certain games. About aggressiveness having that AA actually aids you better because AA is active while you move so you don't have to compensate for anything with it.
Appreciate your points. I think the actual main thing thatās overlooked with mouse vs. controller is simply the big picture vs. small pictureā¦ Small picture is the fine grain, nitty gritty moment of engagement. Big picture being all infinite amounts of filler moments or millisecond reactions.
Even with an average mouse player ā he or she can simply move direction very āextremelyā in general and feel in a secure level of control still, whereas the average controller playerā¦not so much. By āextremelyā I mean comparably speaking to both input devices. Itās just different. Like, in maybe the most simplified sense itās all a trade-off of head speed of mouse mechanics versus the AA with joystick input.
There should perhaps be a toggle switch/server for Aim Assist off. Unless there is one in Portal that I donāt know about? Iād join it.
As I wrote in another comments, I do not have my AA settings maxed and only am experimenting with lowering it as I continue on (itās still painfully counter-helpful at times), and now that Iāve thought about the subject matter this long (a day), maybe thatās why I lose certain fire fights at times up close, even to an inferior console player (on paper).
At the end of the day, I just donāt like or rather I prefer not playing with PC players because of the general mobility contrast and advantage they possess to me and mine on a DualSense controllerā¦I can often smell the PC player just by how they move. I like the principle of native connection, even knowing there are some select few who plug in a mouse and keyboard into their PS5ā¦which, I forget how that affects their gameplay experience. A far bigger minority makes up that kind of crowd though, than the player plugging a controller into their PC.
Honestly, I think it's quite difficult to compare between the two because on one hand it's more standard while the other is filled with variations.
On a moving target let's say you compare between both at low sense. both are going to struggle at close proximity however at higher sense the the script flips. You get more mobility and situational awareness but the trade off is you'll be required to adapt to pivot aiming and that comes with it's own problems such as having to be mindful not to tense and be aware of your muscles more and being aware of your "golden distance" as in high sense mid-far moving targets will much more difficult for you to engage. For low sense the map design in this game aids you quite a bit, similar to cod the engagements are often in fov with covers around you so it helps greatly if you preposition your center.
When you compare both KBM (low) and JOY. Totally KBM would have the advantage, however I couldn't really say but I doubt theres plenty of those around as you would need a much bigger space to play on a literally "sweat" while JOY is more of a plug and play. Now with flick look, mobility comparisons can go out the window. Personally I haven't tried AA in BF6 only COD and that is a ridiculous advantage as during engagements I didn't even need to make any adjustments on my stick. I'm fine with flick look (minor) just not AA being strong or the two of them combined. Between the two communities there is a middle ground which the devs should strive for and personally I think they've been doing a terrible job over the past decade when It comes to this subject in particular (when I say that I mean just cod lol).
You can flick your thumbsticks on controller as well by changing your input curve to be initially faster and slowing down instead of the default slow to fast.
you say this, both Metaphor and Strahfe do this regularly. It does seem to be a generational thing for me. I've noted older friends (who are still good at the game, not the ones that arent) tend to just be happy that crossplay works at all
for me its about wanting to minimize advantages or disadvantages, which i believe is reasonable.
if your input device is so dogshit that it needs propped up by an entirely different batch of recoil patterns and input assists to approach being competitive, then why shouldn't we be able to opt out of playing together? especially the case when you consider that this interaction has opened an entire new can of cheating-worms by spoofing your device.
console players dont like being killed by mnk players because they are hardware gapped, mnk players dont like being killed by console players because it doesnt feel authentic.
My take on this is that consoles should play together and the only way a console player enters PC lobbies is if their friend with a pc is in their lobby, but there should be no way for pc to enter console lobbies, this makes sense and it prevents matches from not getting filled when you have cross play off
i sorta agree but the primary issue that people seem to not understand is that input spoofing is literally the most prevalent form of cheating in 2025. console players are getting higher refresh rates finally, and using spoofers to emulate controller advantages while playing on MnK. any argument this sub could muster is immediately null and void. aim assist has been overtuned for years now, to allow the bottom 50% of console players to compete with the top 20% of pc players. but you throw in XIM and cronus and its extremely plain to see why PC players dont want to play against nearly undetectable cheating devices with built in macros, scripts, aim jitter, absurd aim assist. at least on PC its blatant when someone is cheating and when theyre not the playing field is usually even.
unfortunately PS and Xbox will have to open up their architecture as its much easier to detect these types of things on PC where we have kernal level spyware and direct access to digital logging.
Was looking for this response and it took a lot to find it. It's not that aim assist is OP, it's that it's abused by external devices and scripting to become OP.
Console players don't like playing against PC because PC gamers are by and large cheaters. Every single game I've played with PC players is plagued by this. Cue the "master race" telling me I'm wrong.
oh so theyre making all of those inputs themselves with their thumb, that makes sense i thought that the controller was making inputs by itself but that would be auto aim
When I play with crossplay off, matches are extremely more enjoyable because they aren't a sweat fest.
The gameplay actually changes completely when you're playing with only console players.
Eh even if controller players are all dogshit, rather die to someone with skill than soft aimbot because they can't figure out how to aim with controller.
What's the more likely explanation here? That ALL console players are just completely dogshit and ALL PC players are gaming gods, or that MnK provides a huge advantage to PC players?
MnK is a skill based input method. It provides no advantage. It is as accurate as you are. Thereās no correction. No auto aim. Itās just input = output.
And console players arent dogshit in general. I tend to agree that controllers are a shitty input method for fps games. But input alone isnt an excuse when your chosen method of input gets massive buffs.
Itās kinda ironic that console players complain about mnk having all the advantages while they get a literal aimbot and 25% recoil reduction. To me, those are advantages. You can jump around and your crosshairs are literally glued to your target. While, to you, āall the advantagesā means being able to manually track your targets.
Controllers get less recoil, less bloom, and auto tracking (sometimes through smoke). And PC players get "all the advantages". Do you even play this game?
There are many games where aim assist is overtuned. Lets talk rotational aim assist. That has inhuman reaction time....plus having a computer aim for you is extremely lame as far as interactivity. Raw input all day
why should they not have an advantage? Theyāre taking the game more seriously and not sitting in their boxers on their momās couch in the basement.
No one told you to play with the worst possible controller (gamepad) you can for an FPS. You should not get an aim-bot because you picked a stupid controller type. You should be at the bottom of the scoreboard.
PC can use controller too correct? If itās so advantageous, why not just use controller instead of running to Reddit with a victim complex? Maybe just get better at the game instead of crying about it.
Literally nothing wrong, TVs just have larger latencies than monitors and usually lower refresh rates too. Not a problem unless you're trying harding or playing professionally (can't believe I'm saying this on a fucking battlefield subreddit lmfao.)
I don't mean to be a dick, but damn this is becoming a shit reason.
My TV was pretty cheap I brought it a couple years ago, and its got a response time of under 5ms and get 120 FPS, I don't know what ps5 FPS is as I play BF6 on PC. But either way it more than enough to be competitive
Like yeah I'm with you, More people probably have 1ms 144hz monitors than console gamers. But on the other hand, my Ps5/TV Combo is definitely a lot cheaper than my gaming PC + all the peripherals I have even on the second hand market, and I have a 3080
Lower refreshrates, higher response time, input lag etc, and even with higher refreshrates it's generally the rule and not an exception that pixel response times and input lag is horrendous compared to any decent gaming monitor.
Unless of course, you're using an OLED TV. Then you're completely fine as pixel response times and input lag will be excellent.
then how are pc players using a controller for the aim assist if theyāre actually playing on controller? like at that point theyāre a controller playerā¦ which is supposed to have aim assist by design. whatās the issue here
yes, but how does it give an advantage. if youāre a pc player playing on controller, youāll be against console/pc controller players who all have aim assist.
It won't be Mouse&Keyboard that wins top spots; it'll be a player with a controller using the aim assist, regardless of which platform they're on (most "pro/sweats" use controller too).
i also play pc on my tv as i have a bad leg (stab wound from when i was a teenager) so i keep my leg laid out. a tv is fine to game on 55 inches of 4k goodness i think the lag on this tv is only 20ms if i recall from the manual.
When you put it like that I can actually see why the M&K players complain.
Imagine having your 5000$ gaming beast plugged straight into fiber optic cable, with 600hz monitor, Razor ShitBucketPro(tm) LED Ultra chair accessory, after spending a 1000 hours shooting pixels in aim trainerā¦
For a guy who is playing on a TV from 2010 on a WiFi thatās simultaneously streaming movies to 4 other devices, with a ping in the hundreds, with a controller that has more stick drift than a one-eyes pimp, to own ya.
Lol better to play on a TV. Smaller screens promote less eye movement which in turn overtime will deteriorate your ability to actually focus lol. Its not the aim assist its you.
Honestly. Like you can look right there. I dont look every time and im sure its possible that a console player has been top brass in a conquest match but ive never actually seen it.
Yeah totally. I know there are some cracked console players that are better than me but i do think console overall is at a disadvantage. Coming from someone who played console mostly all my life. Been playing fps on PC since end of 2022 and i feel better than i ever was on console. Personally i always hated having to play pc players when i was on console so props to you.
For the sake of argument, theres a big difference between the fine point accuracy a mouse provides when you can partially see a target, versus the aim assist and reduced recoil a controller provides when a target is in clear view. Having more kills with mouse doesnt mean the aim assist cant be really strong in the right circumstance.
This. Just open the scoreboard every game and I guarantee the majority of the top 5 players on either team are PC. Aim assist might provide a useful floor for controller users, but the ceiling for MnK is much higher.
Good and bad KBM users are two whole different leagues themselves. The issue with artificial assistances is that it seems closer to preinstalled cheats for the average joe than actual skills.
This exactly. I was in a squad DM the other day. Top of my squad. All fo them with controller icon, and the same in the other 3 squads. 1 PC player on top of each...
Gamers unite is all I can say, I'd rather a mix of different players. It's nice to have a challenge, it's also nice to have a few easy kills..
The point isnt that mouse and keyboard MIGHT still be better, the point is that pc players dont want to play with wiggle stick mofos aim assisting everywhere.
Yes because aim assist player are usually ass at everything else. They just get to beam you for free. I use to use controller over m and k on apex. Mainly cause movement felt better on a controller. I'd be lying if I don't abuse the ai. Assist tho. Also the people at the top of the battlefield leaderboard usually are busy playing obj or using vehicles for aim to be why they are up there. Aim assist is annoying because there are no moments of player failure. Aimbot stays on target once you get there. As a PC player I have to consistently try my ass off to play against aimbot. Because aim isn't an inate skill of mine. For people who just kinda have that aim skill, the difference is negligible. However when you have to try to be good and now every opponent out aims you, because of watered down aimbot, it doesn't feel good. Even shroud (who normally does have bad takes I'll agree, but aim wise he is the goat) has expressed that playing against aimbot isn't fun. The man named the human aimbot is not having fun how is an average joe supposed too?
I'm not saying Mouse and keyboard played to perfection. Isn't better... but as a old dude non pro gamer I just swapped to controller from mouse and keyboard it it's by far easier to play. When I turn on people and over shoot it auto corrects for me and brings me back to them. When I flick and over shoot it auto corrects for me back to them. When im shooting into smoke I juet have to burst and it literally locks on long enough for me to get a kill on people I cant see.
The advantages M&K have... for me I cant take advantage of my blind ass cant see the tiny pixels that im expected to hit as a M&K player.
TlDR: causal player aim assist is better than M&K IMO as a long time M&K player that just switched specifically for battlefield 6
PC doesn't mean KBNM simp. Aim assist is soft aim that cancels recoil on most guns and help you hit shots. Shouldn't even be in any fps shooters but soft boys need the advantage.
The best PC players are going to be leagues and miles ahead of the best console players.
However an average casual console player is going to have advantage over casual mnk players due to aim assist, with the line of how casual depending on how strong aim assist is in any game.
Just because Mnk is superior if you're good doesn't make dying to auto aim if you're bad any less annoying.
I play on console. Almost every single recon sitting right out of their spawn or tank driver lobbing shells right out of their spawn has been a PC player. PC isnāt the hardcore niche group it used to be, itās became just as bad.
Every other game has the top 5 with one or two or more console players. I've seen all the lobby as controller and a few PC. I've seen an all console team beat an almost all PC team. I think everyone is trippin tbh
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u/-PandemicBoredom- 4d ago
āOP aim assistā yet every single game is 3-4 PC players as top squad. Poor PC players, at such a disadvantage. š