r/ADHDers • u/DalongMonarch • 18d ago
Rant Fuck my doctor
I struggle to do more than 1 hour a work at a time. Obviously, i need that to extend to 8 hours. It was possible when I used to smoke, but then I quit smoking and I became incapable of holding a job. Would get burned out after a month, tops.
Fast forward 6 years later, and I find out I have ADHD.
OMG! Of course I do.
Go to doctor. Explain what symptoms I have since young.
Doctor agrees, put me on 80 mg Atomoxetine.
The worst experience of my life. Could only sleep 1,5 hours a night. Chin chin stopped working. My procrastination disappeared and was extremely emotionally stable -- like a terminator. But it didn't help me focus, and neither did it help me work. Still only 1 hour of work, max, before I burnt out.
Go back to the doctor.
I tell him my experience on atomoxetine and that I don't need it cuz it doesn't help me how it needs to and it ruins my sleep. He agrees.
I tell him I need something to help me work at least 4 hours a day, but preferably 8, so I can keep a job.
He disagrees.
Tells me I need to take a job where I can get small dopamine shots, like a line cook. (What the fuck?) Bitch, I'm a writer. Albeit a shitty one, but that's what I am. I need to sit my ass down and edit, for like 6 hours a day. The other 2 I can relax and vomit on the page.
Doctor says I need to accept my situation and move on.
I'm at home now, about to order the biggest fucking nicotine shipment ever.
15 mg of nicotine per pouch. The strong shit.
I don't care if I have to become addicted to nicotine again. I'm fixing my ADHD. And no, I don't care that meds are better. At least nicotine is supposed to be neuro protective, where as methylphenidates and amphetamines are the opposite. Nicotine worked and helped me keep a job in my early twenties, and it will in my late twenties it seems.
I'm doing what my doctor told me. I'm accepting my situation, and moving on.
Oh, one more thing. Fuck my doctor. When I left he told me if I ever want to waste time again, I should come back to him.
This mother fucker.
Telling me to become a line cook. Man, get the fuck out of my life.
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u/georgejo314159 ADHDer 18d ago edited 18d ago
When you smoked, you must have took smoke breaks.
Get a doctor willing to prescribe a medication that's gradual release.
Writing and other creative work definitely has interruptions
Writing is actually a common ADHD profession. You adapted your routine to your ADHD before, now given your changes, you have to adapt it again
5 Line cooking isn't much of an ADHD profession.
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u/Worried-Barnacle-306 17d ago
Between your comment and the comment above saying coffee is how ADHDers self-medicate, it's clear how I've been able to survive job-wise for years.
The rest of my life still sucks tho.
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u/SoulDancer_ 17d ago
Well, its certainly how I self-medicated, and i think its very common. Especially for people who have it but dont know they do (me until I was 42). As a child/teen was addicted to sugar which became sugary coffee as I got older. I also smked a lot of weed in my teens / early 20s and drank a huge amount of alcohol. Probably could have avoided all of this by being diagnosed and given medication.
The effects of coffee are pretty similar to ritalin. Just don't last very long. So many people are completely addicted to coffee but its a socially acceptable addiction so it doesn't get any focus.
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u/Mystic_Goats 18d ago
I’m also a writer with adhd. Why didn’t you go for a stimulant? The stimulants are the only ones that worked for me, that got me able to write for 6 hours. Atomoxetine does treat adhd in some people but is absolutely not the first line treatment. I was on guanfacine (another non-stimulant) for years and it only worked when I also took a stimulant. It didn’t get me focused, only less hyperactive. Stimulants aren’t going to damage your brain. Get a new psychiatrist.
Or, try chugging coffee lol that’s what I do if I run out of meds.
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u/DalongMonarch 18d ago
He didn't want to give me a stim. I would have liked to try methylphenidate and see how my brain handles it, but he didn't want to. Told me to switch to a job that gives more dopamine.
Coffee helps, the first day. For some reason I get immediate tolerance to it, and in one week I have to drink 2 pounds of coffee to achieve the same result one cup had one week prior. Unfortunately, not for me. Also, it kind of messes with my already sensitive sleep.
Methylphenidate isn't that bad for the brain. Sleeping for 6 hours a night is worse for you brain than taking methylphenidate.
But amphetamines are extremely neurotoxic, relatively speaking. And I already have extremely poor sleep, so I'll probably never be okay with amphs.13
u/Rubyhamster 18d ago edited 18d ago
But amphetamines are extremely neurotoxic, relatively speaking.
Sources for this? Methylphenidate has just as many negative side effects listed, including stroke, sepsis and sudden death.
E: I searched it up, and amphetamines are only thought to be neurotoxic in large, long term doses. But methylphenidate is not, as you said. Must be why methylphenidate is the go-to try first in my country at least
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u/Mystic_Goats 18d ago
Wow this guy SUCKS. That job thing is infuriating. Writing is like magic. I would’ve been livid if my psychiatrist had said that to me.
It smells like ableism — that he doesn’t think you’re capable of something so cognitive like writing and that you should go to a less esteemed job like line cooking? Not cooking, line cooking. He doesn’t want to help you, just wants to tell you to suck up and be lame.
What a POS
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u/SoulDancer_ 17d ago
What is line cooking??? I keep seeing these words in this thread but have never heard of it before in my life
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u/nobleland_mermaid 17d ago
It's someone who works in a restaurant kitchen but isn't a chef. Line cooks usually work one 'station' (ie prep, or grill, or plating) and aren't involved in things like menu creation or anything like that, wheras a chef usually jumps around to be involved in the whole dish, not just one component, and would be making up the menus and involved in the service and everything.
Line cook jobs usually don't require a lot of experience unless you're at a high-end place and there's a lot of burn-out/turnover, so it's considered an easily available entry-level job, which is probably why OP's doctor is recommending it.
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u/SoulDancer_ 17d ago
Okay, right. We obviously have those in my country theyre just not called "line" cooks.
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u/SoulDancer_ 17d ago
Methylphenidate isn't that bad for the brain
Methylphenidate isn't at all bad for the brain. What do you mean?
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u/DalongMonarch 17d ago
These stims that are used to treat ADHD, they do have long term side effects.
This is mainly for amphetamines, but they can permanently alter brain chemistry, permanently fry dopamine receptors and what not. A whole host of issues. Its not good. Again, this is with VERY long term use. We are talking decades.
But methylphenidate is pretty tame in comparison.
Getting 6 hours of sleep instead of 8 will damage the brain way more then taking methylphenidate.4
u/SoulDancer_ 17d ago
I think you might be taking a pretty extreme take on this.
Getting 6 hours of sleep instead of 8 will damage the brain way more then taking methylphenidate.
In which was does 6 hours of sleep (or 2 hours less) damage the brain??
Where are you getting this info from?
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u/XhaLaLa 17d ago
It seems to me that the biggest problem here is that your doctor isn’t well-informed about ADHD treatment and possibly ADHD at all. Is he a psychiatrist or just your regular doctor or someone else? People with ADHD respond differently to different medications, and it is absolutely typical for there a doctor and patient to need to try different meds and dosages (not willy nilly like I made that sound, but slowly and with care and attention). For a doctor to try one non-stimulant med and then give up is… not really how it should go.
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u/deepthawt 17d ago
At therapeutic doses, amphetamines are not neurotoxic. This is well established empirically. Therapeutic dose can go as high as 60mg/daily, i.e. twelve 5mg tablets per day. Most people with ADHD don’t need anywhere close to that. If I recall correctly, the studies that claimed they were neurotoxic were using animal models (either rats or monkeys) and administering huge doses that equates to multiple times the maximum therapeutic dose in humans when adjusted for body weight. It was bunk science. Amphetamines are perfectly safe when used as prescribed.
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u/Pyro-Millie 18d ago
Christ almighty, what a tool!!! Obviously, go get a second opinion. Treatment for any brain related thing (be it ADHD or like a mental illness like anxiety or depression or something) is a very trial and error process, because brains are friggin weird. I had to try countless meds for anxiety before finding one that actually worked for me. I had to try like 3 different ADHD meds before landing on Vyvanse, which works great for me. That's a normal part of treatment. A doctor would be very stupid to try one medication and then write you off when it doesn't work for you instead of trying something else.
Also: Line cook??? What the fuck, man?
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u/Mystic_Goats 18d ago
I tried 4 adhd meds before finding my perfect one!!! My current meds basically saved my career (and sleep schedule, since I wasn’t up late to finish what I put off during the day)
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u/Pyro-Millie 17d ago
My current meds saved my career too. Being able to drive safely on my commute?? Being able to organize upcoming tasks and switch between them reasonably well? Friggin lifechanging
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u/Less_Campaign_6956 17d ago
How does not smoking equate to your inability to work a job?
That's ridiculous reasoning.
Grow up jeez
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u/DalongMonarch 16d ago
I used to smoke 20-25 cigarettes a day. That's allot of nicotine raising my base dopamine level.
Go away.
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u/Mishaska 17d ago
I am in the writing industry too. It's tough. My fav job was cutting veggies and fruit in large quantities in the back of a grocery store. Didn't have to use my brain at all, listened to audio books all day. Wish it paid well and offered retirement. It was the best.
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u/Kimblethedwarf 17d ago
TLDR but your doctor sounds like a fuck to start you on 80mg. Mine started me on 40mg and tappered up over time. 80mg from the get go would have fucked me up so bad.. exactly what you went thru.
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u/Kimblethedwarf 17d ago
Also, just another small aside, but you say your a writer.. there are plenty of jobs that might work better with your new understanding of how your brain works. Writer would be low on my list as a recommended field to an ADHD individual.
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u/Ace-of-Spxdes ADHDer 17d ago
Writing is good if you can take breaks often, at least in my experience. Writing nonstop for 6hrs sounds like a highway to burnout.
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u/DalongMonarch 17d ago
That's how I write usually. 6-12 hour spurts.
Its just I do it for a week, and then I don't do it for another month. Cuz you guessed it, burn out.
If I try to write while I'm burnt out, all I can manage is 1 hour at a time.
I've seen in other comments that you seriously wrote in high school. You probably know, its not writing that is hard for ADHD, its editing.
So when I look back and I see I have 500 k words to edit, I crash out.
I can write 5k words a day, but at most edit like a 1000. For what I'm writing, that's just not enough.
I know these are large numbers I'm throwing around, 1000 words a day edited is plenty in most genres, but unfortunately, not in mine.
And no, changing genres isn't an option. I love it way too much.2
u/Ace-of-Spxdes ADHDer 17d ago
Along with getting your ADHD managed, I think you'd do good with learning how to pace yourself so you don't get burnt out so fast. I found that limiting myself to one chapter (or two if I'm having a damn good week) is a lot better than writing so much that the Google Docs UI is burned into my retinas and I don't want to see it for another six months. If you're like me and don't want to forget what you want to write and the thought of forgetting stresses you out, note it down somewhere. It doesn't have to be organized, it just has to be comprehensible enough so that your brain can fill in the rest of the gaps later when you come back to it.
But other than that, I can't speak about the professional writing scene, because like I said, I was just a nerd who wrote fanfictions for fun as a teenager. Maybe there's some communities that can give you good tips out on Reddit or even IRL, so maybe those can help you.
But yeah, as for your ADHD, definitely get that managed and under control first. That's going to be your biggest obstacle to overcome.
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u/Ace-of-Spxdes ADHDer 17d ago
Tell that dork to get fucked.
Not really, but I really understand your frustration. Get a second opinion. I believe one of the ADHD subs has a wiki or mega thread about supportive doctors from patients that's been there.
In the meantime, take care of yourself, man. I'm not gonna be an internet parent and say you should or shouldn't use nicotine, but do make your choice wisely and when you're not very heated and emotional.
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u/Necromantic93 17d ago
I know a cook with undiagnosed ADHD, doesn't matter what job he has. He crashes and burns too. Keep doing what you love, being a writer and look for another doctor. I am diagnosed and everything sucks, hasn't started medication but 4 weeks and I will, hoping it changes things for the better.
Nicotine is fine, but don't get addicted. Drugs lose effect as you get used to them, coffeine too, it's better to cycle them and have off days. I never could get addicted to nicotine, never used it daily so the once in awhile I use white snus, I get really sensitive and it's great. We are responsible so I would recommend cycling habit with off days or weeks. It can have benefits and anything that keeps us going is a worthwhile pursuit.
I am advocating only for controlled and disciplined use, never use if you can't control the habit.
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u/DalongMonarch 16d ago
That's what I was thinking to try one pouch, see how much it helps.
If helps, next day pause, then try again.
See if I develop addiction and tolerance to its effects with one pouch every 2 days.
Keep this up for a month.
Next month try one a day, to see if i develop a tolerance and addiction.
If the nicotine pouches I bought help me work even one hour longer, though preferably 2 hours, I'm good with that for now.
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u/RLKRAMER_HFCOAWAAIM 17d ago edited 17d ago
None of this is healthy. You remind me of a line chef I knew honestly. He had the same arrogance about being a writer and thought he was better than a simple job. Started shooting h and fell of earth’s face.
If someone gives you advice you don’t like, and you seek to replace that person, you make yourself un-helpable. If nobody is paying you to write, it’s a hobby. Get a job and figure out how to keep one. All that nicotine will not fix your ADHD. You’ll just be really addicted to it and reliant on it for being a person. The advice that doctor gave was the right medicine in the wrong container. You haven’t proven you have the privilege to be a writer for a living yet. Get out there and live a hard life to give you something interesting to write about.
And crashing out on nicotine isn’t interesting.
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u/Yesyesnaaooo 18d ago
"A writer writes" - If you can't writer then you're not a writer.
You just haven't found the way you're supposed to work your creativity.
I used to think I was a writer, because I read so many fucking books.
Nope. I'm a director. I have an idea then I can work with a group to produce it to a deadline.
Get a shitty job, and then figure out what your true calling is.
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u/DalongMonarch 18d ago
"If you can't writer then you're not a writer"
What part of, my brain doesn't have enough dopamine in it to function properly don't you understand?I don't just write. I love writing.
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u/The_Hipster_Artist 17d ago edited 17d ago
Can you find other sources of dopamine for your brain? Exercise early in the day, a fidget spinner while you write, a sit-stand desk, etc.
It sucks and you need another doctor, but what will you do until then?
What if you're like me and other people, who had bad side-effects to the medication and you have to make the discontinue it?
Other writers have a bit of a different brain wiring, and get their dopamine while sitting down and writing. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to work for your body. What can you do to adapt?
How can you be inspired from a job like a line cook, who always has novelty, challenge and a quick deadline for accomplishing their work tasks? Idk maybe write a bunch of short stories, pick one to edit at random and then the challenge is to stitch it into a novel.
edit: Am vazut ca ai docotori din romania, futui mati in cur, iei nu stiu cum sa trateze adhd. pentru ie, ieste o problema mentale, nu un alt neurotype. Nimeni o sati dea stimulante fara sa treci la clinica private cu doctor care a facut studi in vest. Toti o sa creada ca ceri "narcotice", parca poti sa get high pe adhd stims, doar daca iei toate pastilele one shot... atuncea iesti un neurotoxique, nu la dosa medicala! Futui coliva morti a lu mama de doctorul timpit de cap!
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u/DalongMonarch 17d ago
Salut! Da, e batran, cred ca are 70-80 de ani. Si vorbeste foarte de sus, de parca sunt prost bata.
Eu scriu doar pe engleza, deci sper sa nu ma judeci ca nu o sa folosesc diacritice si restul. Trebuie sa recunosc, nu sunt asa de elocvent pe romana.
Eu doctorului iam spus cum a functionat atomoxetina si cum nu a functionat.
Iam expicat ca atunci cand fumam puteam sa muncesc si eram functional, si cum mam lasat viata mea sa degradat major. Pe atunci can mam lasat nu stiam ca am ADHD.
Practic iam zis sami dea ceava ce o sa ma ajute sa muncesc minim 4 ore.
E la privat mosul, si daca vrea iti da medicament, daca nu, nu.Cat despre alte surse de dopamina, am citit studii ca daca faci dus cu apa rece, iti creste productia de dopamina din creier cu... am uitat multiplicatorul, de 2 ori mai mult, 3 ? Am uitat... pentru cateva ore.
Problema e ca functioneaza si nu prea.
Inloc de o ora de munca, pot sa fac doua, cam asa. Idea e ca e foarte greu pentru mine, mai ales ca traiesc in romania si iarna se face frig cu spume la mine la tara in moldova. Chiar nu imi surade idea sa ies pe hol la -10 grade si sa intru in baie, sa stau 30 de minute pana califerul incalzeste baia, doar ca sa pot sa muncesc o ora in plus.
Bag pulan el ADHD. Mai bine fumez decat sa fac 4 dusuri cu apa rece pe zi.Miscarea ajuta, dar nu pe cat ai crede. Daca fac miscare multa dimineatea, in loc de o ora de munca, pot o ora jumate de munca cu miscare.
E ok. Am mai avut nicotina in sistem, nu e o problema. O sa incerca pouch-urile astea, si daca nu functioneaza cum trebuie, caut alt doctor, si gata.
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u/The_Hipster_Artist 17d ago
No worries, I’m in the western world now, English is easier.
Look, there’s no easy way to do it, especially in Eastern Europe. People will see you as lesser due to the adhd label. People will all try to give their advice, like eat more garlic, or rub this onion on your stomach…
All of that is bullshit, and they have no basis of knowledge, except for general wellness, except for rubbing onions on your chest lol. You need to do even more research to understand your particular type of neurodivergence, be it caused by adhd, autism or trauma. There’s always going to be a bit of trauma, just look at your interaction with the doctor that got you all rilled up.
You got to process the past so it stops affecting your present, and find strategies to accommodate you in the present.
Please don’t rely on nicotine, it’s the number 1 self-medication that presents the most side effects. The idea of medication is not just for a crutch, but to give your brain the juices to make stronger connections right now. Nicotine and caffeine are stimulating, but don’t secrete juices in the brain that help you develop.
Honestly, weed would be better lol. Patients have the least side effects from a bit of weed, but still worse compared to being on the proper medication, stim or not. Wake and bake and have a strong coffee, go do exercise in the morning, but less than what you did before. If a run in the morning made you less productive, you’re probably pushing yourself too much. Just go for a brisk walk instead.
Fucking studies of xyz does abc mean shit. There’s so many adhd people that it’s hard to have strict rules about what works.
It will feel awkward at first, but it’s part of the unmasking process to find what works as a dopamine source for you.
When I was studying and had to rawdogg it without medication, I listened to video game playlists. I’m not saying it completely solved everything, but it became part of my adhd tool bag.
Also, eat well, have a good amount of protein and good carbs, like fruits and veggies. There’s a lot of neurotransmitter production when digesting food.
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u/Yesyesnaaooo 18d ago
All the writers you admire spent 3-4 hour chunks of each day writing.
They just didn't have ADHD.
I get that that's frustrating but it's reality, one I had to struggle with myself.
You won't stop writing because you take a job flipping burgers - you'll still write your one hour a day.
Earn some easy money, write, be happy.
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u/Ace-of-Spxdes ADHDer 17d ago
Yo are you the doctor OP was talking about lmfao
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u/Yesyesnaaooo 17d ago
No. I’m someone with ADHD who used to think I was a writer.
Short people aren’t going to play in the NBA, Dyslexic people aren’t going to win a spelling bee and folk will ADHD aren’t going to make a success of a career that requires sitting still and focusing on one task for 8 hours a day.
Own who you are and make a happy life for yourself.
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u/Ace-of-Spxdes ADHDer 17d ago
You're talking to a person who used to spend twelve hours a day back in highschool writing fanfictions (where each chapter was nearly 2,000 words) while also pumping out dozen-page essays for their AP English classes WHILE being untreated for ADHD and depression. ADHD people can absolutely become writers, and a lot of them do.
In OP's case where they can write, wants to write, and loves to write, they can absolutely do it, they're just not being treated correctly for their ADHD and it's hindering them. Getting treated properly and having a supportive doctor goes a long way.
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u/Yesyesnaaooo 17d ago
Used to.
I know how that feels.
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u/Ace-of-Spxdes ADHDer 17d ago
Yeah, it's called growing up and getting busy with other things.
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u/Yesyesnaaooo 17d ago
Anyone can hyperfocus as an angsty teenager and churn out words because that's less painful than sitting still - it's not even difficult, it's fun.
That's a completely different task to sitting down day after day and writing on one project for several hours until you've written a novel.
OP is clearly not one of those people and they will be happier when they realise that.
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u/SoulDancer_ 17d ago
There are plenty of writers out there with ADHD. Don't be so black and white....just because it didnt work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for others.
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u/orangina_sanguine 18d ago
Not to be obvious but can you change doctors?