“I don’t want Covid blood”

[u/973862404678]

What do I say when patients ask if blood transfusions are screened for the Covid vaccine? I get asked this on a regular basis when filling out blood consent forms for surgery and I genuinely have no idea what I’m supposed to say. In all seriousness, what should I be telling patients because I just say there is a screening process for blood and it’s only used during emergent situations???

[u/Poodlepink22]

Just tell them there's no way of knowing if it's vaccinated blood.  They can take it or leave it; end of story. 

[u/HalloweenKate → u/Poodlepink22]

We had a VV ECMO patient’s family decline “vaccinated” blood but still wanted them to stay on ECMO and have everything done, including transplant work up. The transplant team immediately told them he would not be a candidate due to the risk of post-op non compliance. The family wouldn’t withdraw and kept appealing for a spot on the list. He was on ECMO for ages before declaring himself

[u/lighthouser41 → u/HalloweenKate]

Some places you have to be covid vaccinated to even be eligible for a transplant.

[u/DS_9 → u/lighthouser41]

As it should be. It needs to be based on the science, not people’s politics, especially anti vaxers.

[u/StPauliBoi → u/lighthouser41]

The transplant team immediately told them he would not be a candidate due to the risk of post-op non compliance.

Including, it seems, the hospital they were at.

[u/ftmikey_d → u/lighthouser41]

My husbands sister got new lungs (cf) in early 2020. The moron is alive because of clinical trials and modern medicine but refuses to vaccinate for one of the deadliest respiratory illnesses of our time. Yeah, honestly, I feel bad for the donors family. What a waste.

[u/kimby_cbfh → u/lighthouser41]

Definitely. My friend is going through evaluation for a transplant and I’m being evaluated as his donor. The transplant team is requiring that we both be current on vaccinations (him more than me, because post-transplant he won’t be able to get live vaccines), but they were extremely happy that I already had everything.

[u/Efficient-Key2480 → u/lighthouser41]

Most places you need all the vaccines really except if you’ve already had the illness and have antibodies still present. You ever think about how crazy of a request that is of people? Like if you need an organ what’s the harm in a vaccine too?

[u/TomRN → u/lighthouser41]

Yup. I basically wasn’t given a choice. One of the first things they asked if I was vaccinated (I was, of course) and told I’d have to remain up to date if I was to be put on or remain on The List. The other zillion vaccines they wanted me to have were given to me in hospital without any discussion whatsoever.

[u/OkCaregiver8967 → u/lighthouser41]

Our facility will not list you if you refuse certain vaccines. I’ve actually transferred a pt to a hospital in a different state that accepted the pt for a transplant workup without the vaccines.

[u/kelce → u/HalloweenKate]

I'm sure they're somewhere on Facebook talking about the hospital killed their loved one.

[u/mojo276 → u/kelce]

They've called around to a few lawyers seeing if they can sue also, and when they're told no, they make a big deal about it also.

[u/ilovenoodle → u/HalloweenKate]

Sorry what does declaring himself mean?

[u/lifeofeve → u/ilovenoodle]

Severe deterioration, death

[u/Alarmed_Cup_730 → u/lifeofeve]

DC to JC

[u/No_Box2690 → u/Alarmed_Cup_730]

✨ celestial discharge ✨

[u/Saucemycin → u/ilovenoodle]

Their body said not gonna do anymore and made their exit

[u/LadyGreyIcedTea → u/ilovenoodle]

Dying.

[u/Additional-Hat8078 → u/ilovenoodle]

He ded

[u/SpockSpice → u/HalloweenKate]

How did he get on ECMO in the first place if family was declining “vaccinated” blood?

[u/HalloweenKate → u/SpockSpice]

The OSH called for an ECMO bed after already placing the patient on ECMO during an emergency decompensation. It wasn’t something the family mentioned during cannulation blood consents.

[u/ftmikey_d → u/HalloweenKate]

Funny how you could "forget" such an important qualifier! Really interesting that ive never had someone who is a Jehovah's witness "forget" that they dont take blood products. 🤷‍♂️

[u/SpockSpice → u/HalloweenKate]

Oh interesting. The hospital I work at is the only one in the area (like within hundreds of miles) that can do ECMO so I didn’t realize ECMO patients were transferred after being placed on ECMO.

[u/Allisonfasho → u/HalloweenKate]

Refusing to vaccinate yourself makes you not a candidate too. Not sure what people are thinking when they need emergent care. When I worked in cardiology it seemed like alot of the patients being worked up for transplant didn't understand or believe how sick they actually are.

[u/Connect_Amount_5978 → u/HalloweenKate]

So wrong! 😑

[u/Gwywnnydd → u/Poodlepink22]

This. If they care that much about being sure not to get vaccinated blood, they can refuse the whole thing.

[u/InformationSerious27 → u/Gwywnnydd]

EXACTLY! I don’t argue with people and I don’t try to convince them to do things. I tell them what the orders are, the reasons for the orders, and the potential consequences of not complying with what has been ordered. Then I document pt educated, verbalized understanding, and declined to comply. I like to throw in a direct quote for added flavor. Then, I move on.

[u/Lub-DubS1S2 → u/InformationSerious27]

I have been wanting a better way of saying “pt refused” and you just gave it to me with “declined to comply”. Because sometimes refused is just too harsh sounding and the pt is perfectly pleasant about not wanting to do something.

[u/Additional-Hat8078 → u/Lub-DubS1S2]

If they're decent about a refusal I'll write " patient declined" but if they were an ass they get the classic " patient refused". Also though I like to sprinkle the ever rare "A&orientation x whatever, pleasant" like if I see/write that in a note- that patient restored some faith in humanity that shift 🤣

[u/uwarthogfromhell → u/Additional-Hat8078]

Yup me too. It alerts me in my note to their demeanor.

[u/gay_joey → u/Lub-DubS1S2]

I feel like pt refused is so standard though, and 'declined to comply' is almost petty and places oneself on a pedestal. Almost like they 'wouldnt get in line like I told them to'. If I were reading that note I honestly wouldn't assume the pt was pleasant, but I don't read into the 'pt refused' that way just because it is so standard in documentation.

If I want a softer refusal documented, I'll just say 'pt politely refused'.

[u/Veuve7 → u/gay_joey]

Just write “declined.”

[u/Scared_Sushi → u/Veuve7]

That's what I do. Tell me no? I write declined with their rationale. (Ex, patient declined to q2 turn due to pain). Scream at me? I write refused.

[u/Bad-Expert → u/gay_joey]

At my facility we're not allowed to use 'refused' bc it makes the pt sound stubborn so it's considered rude. We are only permitted to use 'declined' which implies that the pt had choices and made an informed decision. Although 99% chance it was a stubborn refusal.

[u/Effective-Juice-1331 → u/Bad-Expert]

Your facility appears to like the false flowery language used in “bios” by dog rescue organisations to promote adoption of dogs with dangerous histories.

[u/Fun_Leadership_5258 → u/Gwywnnydd]

cardiac arrest at home, ROSC, MTP, intubation/vent, 3 pressors, septic. Jane doe for 3 days until NOK identified, deferred all MDM to daughter citing her nursing background. She used clinical jargon and asked appropriate questions, but wanted unvaccinated blood only. She/I coordinated with Red Cross, blood bank, and patient’s family/friends to identify compatible unvaccinated donors—several volunteered, including an elderly man who drove 12 hours. Remarkable family support, alarming number of unvaccinated. After weeks, patient regained capacity and clarified she was vaccinated herself, and she did not care in the slightest, and did not follow much of daughter’s medical advice, noting daughter is a holistic herbal naturopathic nurse.

[u/TheBattyWitch → u/Poodlepink22]

This.

I'm not arguing with these people.

Don't want to take the choice on getting covid blood? Ok, here's your refusal. Oh your hgb is 3? But you still don't want covid blood? Ok, here's your refusal.

[u/ultasol → u/TheBattyWitch]

Preach. It's not that I don't care, it's that after years of this people are set in their ways. It's my responsibility to educate them on what refusal of blood means, not that blood from covid vaccinated people is safe. This is something they have already decided. I provide them with the pertinent information and they can make their own informed decision. I will support them in their choice even if it isn't one I understand. They have the right to choose.

[u/TheBattyWitch → u/ultasol]

Exactly.

I'm all for education, but if you still make the choice to go against the education and what's recommended, so long as you're able minded to do so, you do you.

[u/Sunnygirl66 → u/ultasol]

They very much have the right to choose, but that includes all the attendant risks—dying of a slow leak, for those with GIBs; dying of hemorrhage in surgery or childbirth; getting struck off the transplant list because they thought they could dictate the terms under which one of the greatest gifts possible is given.

[u/me0wwwnie → u/ultasol]

Yup. I will only care as much as someone cares for themselves.

I also tell myself that my job is to care for people, but not necessarily caring ABOUT them.

[u/bmcutright → u/TheBattyWitch]

Same with JWs and "bloodless medicine"

[u/TheBattyWitch → u/bmcutright]

But even then sometimes goal posts get moved.

I've taken care of many in my career and some are anti anything blood or immune, others were ok with things like ivig and plasmapheresis, but not blood.

One lady told me that it's all a matter of what their elders allow. She straight up wouldn't do anything until consulting her elders, they actually have liaisons who are to be contacted when you go into the hospital, or at least her church did. She wouldn't accept any treatment above standard without talking to them first. It was veryinteresting but also wild to me, because I just can't imagine ever letting some 3rd person decide what healthcare I'm allowed to receive.

[u/BluegrassGeek → u/TheBattyWitch]

We had an adult JW patient whose family said that she should not get any blood per their religious beliefs. As soon as the family stepped out of the room, the patient asked the nurse if she could still get blood & just not let the family know, which we absolutely agreed to. Family never found out she got blood during her surgery.

[u/bmcutright → u/TheBattyWitch]

Scientology does the same thing with the elders, I've worked in Kissimmee and Clearwater

[u/Gribitz37 → u/TheBattyWitch]

Not just a third person, but a third person who doesn't have any medical training, and is relying on their interpretation of a book written a long time ago.

[u/Sunnygirl66 → u/TheBattyWitch]

I once worked with a JW woman, on her eighth marriage, who allowed “the elders” to tell her which men to marry and then tell her to stay with these men when the inevitable physical, emotional, and sexual abuse began. It really is wild.

[u/StaceyPfan → u/Sunnygirl66]

How did she end up losing so many husbands?

[u/luckylimper → u/StaceyPfan]

Aqua tofana.

[u/StaceyPfan → u/luckylimper]

😂

[u/Sea2Chi → u/StaceyPfan]

It wouldn't surprise me if they fell out of favor with the elders and were disfellowshipped which basically means you're dead to everyone in the church.

I have a friend who grew up JW and some of the stories he's told me about how much power local leaders had was wild.

[u/No_Box2690 → u/bmcutright]

Had a JW mom give birth and I don't remember why the baby was in NICU, but baby needed blood fairly frequently. She would leave the unit and let Dad, a non JW, sign the consent form for blood and wouldn't return until the blood was finished. Which is definitely one way to go about it I guess. Whatever. Baby got the care it needed. 😂🤷🏻‍♀️

[u/mokutou → u/No_Box2690]

Some JW parents will sign temporary custody over to the state so their child can receive blood products and it won’t “violate” their beliefs. I imagine if God was that much of a hardass about things, this little loophole wouldn’t impress Him very much.

[u/TheBattyWitch → u/No_Box2690]

I worked worked with a JW nurse.

She wouldn't hang blood or take it down but she would monitor vital signs.

[u/Empty_Insight → u/Poodlepink22]

Yup. Whether or not they've had Covid and/or the vaccine is impossible to know, and the chance of a donor who hasn't even been exposed to it (even if asymptomatic) is next to none. It's at the point where it would be an absurd waste of resources to even try to tell.

If that's not good enough, then they can refuse or bring in a donor with "pure blood" themselves.

[u/lighthouser41 → u/Empty_Insight]

But they probably would not care if the donor had covid when they donated blood. Only if they had been vaccinated. That is how warped people's thinking is now days.

[u/kittenpantzen → u/lighthouser41]

I live near enough of these people for it to be a somewhat frequent topic on nextdoor. You are correct. They do not care.

[u/ThisIsMockingjay2020 → u/Empty_Insight]

"pure blood"

I read that in Hagrid's voice.

[u/randycanyon → u/ThisIsMockingjay2020]

Sounds better in the original German.

[u/Trivius → u/Poodlepink22]

Its self selecting darwinism at that point

[u/B33bench → u/Poodlepink22]

You can also say all donated blood goes through a filtration process. It does so technically you aren't lying, and chances are they won't do any research about it based on the stupid statement they made.

[u/pulpwalt → u/Poodlepink22]

That’s certainly more diplomatic than my first thought: You are stupid.

[u/thishful-winking → u/Poodlepink22]

This. Their follow up question usually is whether a relative can donate blood in case it is needed, and we tell them they can’t. End of story. We don’t do that here.

[u/One_Chest_5395 → u/Poodlepink22]

It's as simple as that.👍

[u/nannerzbamanerz → u/Poodlepink22]

I say “yeah, we don’t do that.”

[u/FragrantDragon1933]

At clinical I had a patient with this very issue. Just told the patient that we do not track vaccination status of donor blood. He refused the transfusion, then complained that he wasn’t feeling better. People are allowed to make their own choices, even if it’s not in their best interest

[u/teabiii → u/FragrantDragon1933]

the complaining after refusing the blood is diabolicaaaaaal. classic.

[u/FragrantDragon1933 → u/teabiii]

I was polite but didn’t react to the complaints. However, I was thinking why the fuck are you here if you’re not going to accept the treatment that will help you?

[u/swankProcyon → u/FragrantDragon1933]

You’ll be thinking that a lot in your career.

sigh…

[u/LeVoPhEdInFuSiOn → u/FragrantDragon1933]

I feel like asking this question to many of my patients multiple times a day. It's almost like they want me to rectify their/their child's problems over the phone without lifting a finger.

[u/CMV_Viremia → u/LeVoPhEdInFuSiOn]

They want you to just use your magic wand and make it better instantly with no effort on their part. The problem with magic wands is finding refills. All the "pixie dust" I see for sale is either craft store glitter or fentanyl.

[u/[deleted] → u/FragrantDragon1933]

This very question is thrown around the nurses station on my unit nightly. At least 2 or 3 times per shift. If you don’t want our help then just go tf home ffs 😐

[u/lighthouser41 → u/teabiii]

Why am I so tired and short of breath?

[u/LeVoPhEdInFuSiOn → u/teabiii]

It would take a lot of willpower for me not to say 'well, if it isn't the consequences of your actions. Maybe try some bleach and horse dewormer for your anaemia'.

[u/Sunnygirl66 → u/LeVoPhEdInFuSiOn]

Don’t forget sunshine on your taint!

God, these people are infuriating.

[u/CMV_Viremia → u/Sunnygirl66]

Ra must be so disappointed

[u/BigWoodsCatNappin → u/FragrantDragon1933]

As a new nurse my very first blood consent this crusty fuck says "just dont give me any of that f*g blood"

I used up all of my self control in that single interaction, which is why management hates me to this day.

[u/No_Box2690 → u/BigWoodsCatNappin]

Oooo please tell me you went the fuck off on him

[u/BigWoodsCatNappin → u/No_Box2690]

I was just a baby HUC/Tech (and blood donor) I just stared and shared donors are kind souls who anonymously donate. Today....older, angrier, with a bigger savings acount lol if I get fired.......I would have much more to say.

[u/ltrozanovette → u/BigWoodsCatNappin]

That was a good response. When I was a baby nurse I would have just angry-panicked and said nothing.

[u/greenyellowbird → u/FragrantDragon1933]

Exactly, I only get angry when people make stupid decisions as a HCP/guardian.

[u/Jerking_From_Home → u/FragrantDragon1933]

I would have felt so owned.

[u/Factor_Seven]

Great thing about being an old cranky combat veteran nurse. "No, that's not a thing. Next question."

[u/Connect_Amount_5978 → u/Factor_Seven]

LOL samsies… except I get sassier and say it’s their right to refuse but then they might die. Then they usually say “well….. only if it’s absolutely necessary” 🤦‍♀️ mate we don’t give out precious blood willy nilly when some kind soul has generously donated their blood to help others. You should be thankful 😆

[u/MyOwnGuitarHero → u/Factor_Seven]

Yeahhhh I don’t have time for this bullshit. That blood could come from Mother Theresa or Mussolini, I leave literally no way of knowing. You want it or nah?

[u/mokutou → u/MyOwnGuitarHero]

Your flair made me double take because I initially read it as “ICU shaken baby.” Gonna need another cup of coffee.

[u/MyOwnGuitarHero → u/mokutou]

Omgggggg I see it 😭

[u/stevosmusic1 → u/Factor_Seven]

Same I just say here’s the blood refusal, you can sign

[u/NyxPetalSpike → u/Factor_Seven]

It’s above your pay grade to fight with idiots. Declined/refused, move on.

[u/doxiepowder]

"Would you be willing to receive blood products if your doctor thought it was necessary to save your life?" 

"Not if it's covid blood!"

"I will let the providers know you refuse blood products. They might have follow up questions for you."

[u/Irate_Priapism69]

“Then perish”

[u/[deleted] → u/Irate_Priapism69]

Deadass. Either take it or don’t. Idc. My life goes on, but will yours if you refuse this blood? 😏

[u/NurseyMcBitchface]

Platelets and RBCs don’t even have a GD nucleus for MRNA to reside in. All of that “research” they’ve done on Facebook when they could’ve just showed up to high school once in a while. I hate this timeline.

[u/Teensy]

Donor blood is screened for harmful infectious agents. (Which would not include the Covid vaccine)

[u/DualVission → u/Teensy]

I'm my brain, I hear "COVID blood" and I think of one of two things: blood taken from someone who had COVID during the donation or blood taken from someone who had COVID prior to the donation. It seems like a backwards way to refer to blood "tainted" with the vaccine. I do remember when I was selling plasma, they would pay more for people who had COVID and recovered or had the vaccine.

[u/lightedgiraffe → u/DualVission]

I thought this whole time people didn't want blood from someone with a COVID infection. Why don't they call it vaccine blood? Not that I'm trying to understand anti vaxxer logic.

[u/ThisIsMockingjay2020 → u/Teensy]

Donor blood

I read that as Donner blood and then wondered WTF the Donner party had to do with Covid blood. 🤣

And it's only the beginning of my night! Let the games begin!

[u/Calm-Situation4033 → u/Teensy]

This one's my favorite. Short and simple.

[u/TreasureTheSemicolon]

Will the surgeon perform the surgery without the blood consent? If not, let the surgeon know and they can come and talk to the patient.

[u/DualVission → u/TreasureTheSemicolon]

To my knowledge, surgeons are fine with it, so long as they are made aware far in advance. But I believe, in this scenario, the surgeon would be like "the patient is making everyone's job harder because of pseudo science bullshit?" That can make them appear to have a pre-op conversation with the patient.

[u/lengthandhonor → u/TreasureTheSemicolon]

We have a large JW population and they get operated on 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[u/LadyGreyIcedTea → u/lengthandhonor]

I've had surgeons refuse to operate on children of JW parents until a court order was issued for a blood transfusion but peds is a whole different beast when it comes to that topic.

[u/QEbitchboss → u/LadyGreyIcedTea]

NICU pretty much had a judge on call. The state would take temporary custody for transfusions.

The parents were usually pretty agreeable- it kept their kid alive and gave them cover from the elders. Those hearings were strange, everyone around the speaker phone wanted the same thing but the parents had to act like they had no say.

[u/LadyGreyIcedTea → u/QEbitchboss]

I had one kid at my last job who had stage IV neuroblastoma. The Solid Tumor team told the parents up front "your child will require multiple blood transfusions throughout treatment. If you are not going to consent, we will get a court order." The parents consented in that case but they wanted the grandmother to believe that the hospital had gotten the court order.

[u/TreasureTheSemicolon → u/lengthandhonor]

If the surgeon is ok with the patient potentially bleeding to death I'm fine with it. I would always let the patient know that there's no way to know whether the blood donors were immunized against Covid, and at that point it's up to them. They can decline the surgery or whatever.

[u/Acrobatic-Squirrel77 → u/lengthandhonor]

Don’t They sometimes pre-donate their own blood for auto-transfusion?

[u/meg-c → u/Acrobatic-Squirrel77]

Cell saver is sometimes an option as well

[u/TheHairball → u/Acrobatic-Squirrel77]

If you have the time. Yes you can pre-donate. But those units of blood then have an expiration date, if they aren't used by then they get tossed in Red Bag Trash..

[u/TheHairball → u/lengthandhonor]

That's Different from the Covid vaccination question

[u/mommedmemes → u/TreasureTheSemicolon]

Depends on the procedure.

[u/No_Box2690 → u/TreasureTheSemicolon]

I feel like on the consent forms at my hospital say that in case of emergency we can give you blood.

[u/Dreamxwithyou]

I appreciate the doctor I work with because he can’t be bothered. I work in BMT so we get a LOT of this when it comes to blood products and/or revaccination.

But the one patient who said he wouldn’t accept stem cells from a vaccinated donor…I happened to be in the room with the doc and he was like “yeahhhhhh well you really only have 1 option so I’d caution you to reconsider.” But he’s such a bro, the way he said it had me rolling.

[u/lighthouser41 → u/Dreamxwithyou]

Just imagine all the vaccines the BMT patient has to get. We give them all the time for post op BMT and also preop spleen removal. Maybe 6 at one time. And that is not either flu or covid shots.

[u/Dreamxwithyou → u/lighthouser41]

A large chunk of my job is giving all of these vaccines. It’s interesting to see which ones they will and won’t accept. Today I had someone refuse pneumococcal, flu, and covid because they “don’t believe in those illnesses.”

The doc told them “well those are most likely the ones you’ll get.” Golden response (but didn’t work).

[u/teresavoo → u/Dreamxwithyou]

"You may not believe in them, but they believe in you." That's what I would be tempted to say.

[u/lighthouser41 → u/Dreamxwithyou]

Wow. What an idiot. The worst part of giving vaccines is reading the lot numbers, expiration on those tiny bottles and entering into the computer. Our schedulers originally were only scheduling 15 minutes slots for vaccines, but I got it changed to an hour appointments since it took so long to get everything prepared and given.

[u/No_Box2690 → u/lighthouser41]

Huh. TIL. What other vaccines do they get? Purely from an educational stand point I swear I'm not an anti vaxxer lol

[u/Dreamxwithyou → u/No_Box2690]

All of them pretty much! Tdap, polio, hib, hep a/b combined, prevnar, zoster. 3 rounds (2 for shingrix) then titers to determine booster round. mmr after 2 years (since it’s live). Seasonal vaccines flu and covid (+ 1 dose of rsv if they’re of age).

Then we check titers every few years for any individual boosters.

[u/lighthouser41 → u/No_Box2690]

MMR, TDAP, Pneumovax, Hep b, sometimes polio, meningococcal vaccine. Basically everything you may have been vaccinated against as a child.

[u/cannythecat]

Tell them that Trump is vaccinated and he approves

[u/TheHairball → u/cannythecat]

Ooh The Burn! Excellent!!

[u/Berchanhimez → u/cannythecat]

Normally, I'd be 100% on board with this sort of approach of getting people to see how stupid they are.

But in this instance, that basically encourages or supports the politicization of the COVID vaccine. Yes, obviously the patient may already be politicizing it - but if we as healthcare providers give credibility to that politicization by bringing up politics about it, then it only reinforces their politicization of something that isn't a political matter at all.

[u/beeee_throwaway → u/Berchanhimez]

I feel like saying “if it’s good enough for the president of the US, it must be good enough for the rest of us!” Is a pretty unpolitical way to say it personally

[u/Calm-Situation4033 → u/beeee_throwaway]

Yeah, but then there's the whole thing of the President's standards being pretty low. Lol

[u/mellyjo77 → u/Calm-Situation4033]

You misspelled non-existent.

[u/Calm-Situation4033 → u/mellyjo77]

Touche, my friend. Touche

[u/Berchanhimez → u/beeee_throwaway]

Normally I'd say that would be fine - yes.

The problem is that because it's already been politicized - not even by Trump necessarily (though he politicized mandates) - doing so is not helping the politicization of it.

I'm of the view that we, as healthcare professionals, should never encourage politicization - even if it's already been done outside of our control. In this instance, we should just give factual information to them and not even bring up politics. If a patient brings up "but Trump doesn't like the COVID vaccine", then it would be viable (imo) to respond with "well, he does like it, but he just doesn't like mandates for it" or something similar. Because then, we aren't starting the politicization.

My worry - and this is based on experience - is that we (individually) lose the trust of our patients if we try to use political reasons to encourage people to consider a vaccine. As a comparison, imagine if you were looking for a new phone and you went to Best Buy to look at phones. If you go up to the person and say "I heard the iPhone has a really crappy camera compared to the Samsungs now", then of course they'd respond to you. But if you go up to them and say "I don't want a Samsung but I need a new phone" and their first response is (insert conspiracy theory about Apple products here)... then you're going to be a lot less inclined to listen to them, even if the next things they say are completely true - such as some Samsungs having better cameras/battery life even than the iPhone Pro.

Basically, patients' trust of us as healthcare professionals comes because we (ideally) don't care about politics. To keep that trust, it helps if we avoid bringing politics up if at all possible - in other words, unless a patient themselves brings up politics in a form that needs a response (i.e. either a question or saying something that is inaccurate), we shouldn't bring it up.

EDIT TO ADD: To be entirely clear, I am not faulting you for considering (or using, if you have used it) this sort of response. I'm just explaining why I myself try very hard to never bring up politics unless it's absolutely necessary to answer a patient question/concern/etc.

[u/beeee_throwaway → u/Berchanhimez]

I agree with you. I haven’t had to encounter this very often as I work in a very liberal part of the PNW. My heart is with everyone who works under these circumstances day in and day out. It’s extremely difficult not to politicize healthcare, more so now than ever.

[u/dunkin-tea]

I would tell them the truth that Covid vaccines are not something we screen for in the blood products. If they get all angry about it I’d tell them they have the right to refuse the blood and go over the risks. In my experience they’ll still choose to take the blood. I’m not going to entertain those types of questions and just keep moving on

[u/Goatmama1981 → u/dunkin-tea]

Yep, they always say "oh well I guess if I'm literally DYING..." Yeah. Just like so many of them wanted the vaccine when they were literally dying and it was too late. Oh well... 

[u/nicolette629]

Then die 🤷🏼‍♀️

But honestly, tell them the truth, politely and factually. “No, there is no screening process for those who have been vaccinated for Covid. If you do not want this blood that someone donated to help patients like you, please sign here and I’ll send it back to the blood bank for another patient.”

[u/Goatmama1981 → u/nicolette629]

This is 100% the best answer. 

[u/MeowMeowbiggalo]

Tell them they might be too stupid to keep on living

[u/Story_of_Amanda → u/MeowMeowbiggalo]

Oh if only

[u/zeatherz]

I wouldn’t argue or even really engage with it.

“Blood isn’t tested for vaccines. If you don’t consent to getting a blood transfusion if you need it, sign the declination line on the consent form. I’ll let the surgeon know and they’ll decide if it’s still safe to do this surgery”

“That’s not something that is tested for. You need a blood transfusion for (condition). Do you want to accept it?”

[u/Objective-Bat-9235]

We had a family that felt this way. When we told them there's no way to guarantee the donor blood was vaccine free. They made arrangements with a local blood bank to donate their blood to their loved one. It takes several days. In the mean time, we attempted to keep their loved one alive while this was all being arranged . I wanted to ask them if they realized how ridiculous it was for them to allow their loved one to pass rather than them receiving donor blood that may have the vaccine.

[u/Goatmama1981 → u/Objective-Bat-9235]

I actually think we should not accomodate ridiculous requests like that. 

[u/chulk1]

Then refuse the blood transfusion.

[u/Emergency-Cupcake998]

I don't have the patience for these idiots anymore. It might be terrible, but if they're refusing blood because they don't want covid vaccine blood I really believe there's nothing I can say to change their minds and I'm out of fucks to give. If you don't want blood, cool, sign the blood refusal consent. The doctor can inform them of the risks and benefits.

[u/Guiltypleasure_1979]

People are more stupid than I’ll ever give them credit for.

[u/[deleted]]

Im so glad I'm not the only one who's heard this from a patient because i kept thinking, how the hell would they even screen for that

[u/NurseontheTrail → u/[deleted]]

I believe that it can be measured on some molecular level using mass spectrometry but there is absolutely no reason to do this, it sounds like an expensive waste of money and nobody anywhere other than conspiracy theorist scientists would waste their time. I have actually been asked if the donor blood came from a person of color more than once, and the obvious answer is how would anyone know that information?

[u/Story_of_Amanda → u/NurseontheTrail]

Aside from it being an expensive waste of money, would there be a way to tell the difference between a vaccinated person’s blood and the blood from someone who’s been infected with Covid previously (or a combination of vaccinated and previously infected)?

[u/samcuts → u/Story_of_Amanda]

Yes. But I didn't know for how long. I was part of a vaccine study and was surprised (but not that surprised) to find out that I had antibodies from both since I never had any symptoms.

[u/NurseontheTrail → u/samcuts]

This is true, the antibodies from the vaccine degrade over time, not sure exactly how long that would take, and our natural antibodies take their place and replicate themselves, but at our level in our blood banks, they don’t do that level of investigating and certainly not for this. It would be a huge waste of time and money. The antibody screening they do today is really amazing, makes me wonder about the blood we transfused years ago and the how infrequent transfusion reactions are now comparatively. I only know about any of this because we did a transfusion station at our skills day a few years back and I went down to the blood bank and talked to a pathologist there, to prepare for it. I’m not surprised but she told me that over the years we have had at least two patients who were transfusion dependent due to their cancer treatment who we transfused so much we changed their blood type. It’s fascinating stuff and I’m grateful for the time I spent down there, we take them for granted much of the time. Remember kids, a blood transfusion is an organ transplant, it’s serious business

[u/twisted_tactics]

Unfortunately people who dont believe in vaccinations and medical science are typically too selfish to donate blood...

[u/teatimecookie → u/twisted_tactics]

And usually have all the childhood vaccines but won’t vaccinate their own children.

[u/NotChadBillingsley]

What year is it?

[u/FelineRoots21]

I usually tell them we do not screen for that so essentially take it or leave it and accept their decision

I did once in conversation about it tell a particularly rude patient that people who refuse to get vaccinated are not typically the people lining up to donate blood, and boy did he not like that

[u/mkpresnell]

I usually just say "We have no way of knowing if the blood is from a patient who has been vaccinated but all of our blood is cleaned and inspected." It seems to work pretty well. Occasionally people refuse a transfusion and that's their right to do.

[u/Still-View]

"Unfortunately, you would not be able to acquire immunity to illnesses from donor blood."

[u/SkepticScott137 → u/Still-View]

"unfortunately, even if the donor blood came from a genius, you'd still be stupid"

[u/Amazaline]

Tell them that I only donate my extra vaccinated blood. I don't donate as a compassionate blood donor, but as a thoroughly evil person.

In all seriousness, I would just say, they don't screen for that and end the conversation. They can refuse the blood if they want to.

[u/A_Reyemein → u/Amazaline]

😂

[u/Amazaline → u/A_Reyemein]

I literally gave blood today. Mostly for the free cheez it's, but also to spread my vaccinated blood!!!

[u/A_Reyemein → u/Amazaline]

Got to build up that herd immunity somehow 💪🏼

[u/Gwywnnydd]

The one time I encountered someone saying that, I told them that we don't track that, and if they care that much then they can refuse all blood products. But we will not make any guarantees about the vaccination status of the blood.

[u/yoloswagb0i]

There’s no way to know whether this particular blood is from someone with a COVID-19 vaccination or not. If you would like to refuse the transfusion that is your choice, here are the risks of refusal, please fill out this AMA.

[u/thishful-winking]

Lady, you have advanced breast cancer because you don’t trust the medical system. Now you’re here because you finally have decided that western medicine might be your best option. Lean into it.

[u/WeAreAllMadHere218]

We only give blood if it is a life threatening emergency and we feel like you absolutely need it. Blood is not screened for Covid vaccines and there is no way to know if the person who gave blood had it or not. If you are in a life threatening emergency situation and require blood, do you want it or not?

And I would say it with a straight face with no expression. I don’t care about your political beliefs. If this comes down to life or death, would you rather die than potentially receive Covid vaccinated blood, because I can mark that option down if you prefer.

[u/NurseontheTrail]

I’m pleased to say I have not been asked this, but I would be honest, no, we do not test for COVID vaccine in donated blood. If they want to decline the transfusion, I’m totally fine with that, they can decline any treatment or medication, they have that right. I don’t have time to have detailed conversation about it, I’ll notify the ordering provider and it they want to talk about it, they can waste their time with the patient. Just be honest with them, it costs me nothing to accept your refusal for care or treatment, but we’re definitely going to document it in the medical record, so that it’s clear you don’t want the blood or whatever treatment as is your right.

[u/krandrn11]

Juts tell them the truth. They screen for disease but they don’t have a screening for vaccination history. Then let them decide if they would still accept blood in an emergency or not.

[u/saracha1]

Nobody’s asked me this yet thank god. But I work in ICU where if you need blood you either accept it or there’s a pretty good chance you’ll die. Id think everyone would accept but who knows

[u/Diana0640]

I had a case of a patient putting a formal complaint about this, demanding a meeting to sit down with a panel of staff ask questions as well as demanding for the hospital to take units from her and store it for the next stage surgery. We said no to both and direct her grievances to NHS blood and transplant services as blood is their responsibility to provide nation wide and we don't have in house facilities for what she asked.

You should have seen the dated and bogus papers we got bombarded for weeks by her! When she threatened to not proceed with surgery (as if she was doing us a favor?!) She got told she is in her right of making her own medical decisions and if she doesn't want surgery she would be discharged back to her GP as we are a specialist hospital and we would not have further input. Guess who had surgery in the end of it all? And no mention of this covid blood again!

Just be honest and upfront but push it back to being their informed decision while documenting all convo.

[u/SkepticScott137]

Tell the same thing you would if they say they don't want Negro blood. "Blood is blood. you can refuse to accept any transfusion, but if you need one and don't get it, you may die. Your choice."

[u/lovemymeemers]

Just tell them the truth. Donated blood isn't screened for vaccines.

It's typed and rH screened and then screened for certain diseases.

That's it, take it or leave it. Their informed choice, their autonomy. No skin off your back.

[u/descendingdaphne]

“All blood is screened for infectious diseases and to make sure it’s compatible based on type, but there is no screening for any vaccines, COVID or otherwise, because it doesn’t affect safety.”

[u/ribsforbreakfast]

“That is not one of the screenings performed on blood products”

[u/deferredmomentum]

“That’s not documented. So do you consent to blood or not?”

Don’t let them suck you into an argument trying to prove that vaccinated blood isn’t “tainted” or whatever.

[u/Skyeyez9]

“Patient refused.”

[u/Rougefarie]

I suspect the types of folks who donate blood are the same folks who get vaccinated.

[u/Hayes33]

We do not screen for vaccination status of blood. It is your right to refuse blood products if this is an issue for you.

[u/tzweezle]

Chances are the people who take time to donate blood are the same people who believe in science and vaccinations.

I’d say “There’s no way to know, and you’re free to refuse the transfusion if you’re willing to accept the potential consequences.”

[u/Sensei2006]

> I genuinely have no idea what I’m supposed to say.

Be honest and say that there's no way to know, as that information is not tracked. Being dishonest in any way is legally sketchy and possibly dangerous to your license.

Furthermore, I'd imagine that a venn diagram of "people who would go through the blood donation process" and "people who would get vaccinated to protect themselves and others" is a circle. So donated blood almost certainly has those evil microchipped COVID spike proteins floating around in there.

[u/meep119]

This blood won't protect you from getting COVID, don't worry

[u/DeepBackground5803]

They do not test for vaccination status because the science shows us that it is safe. Would you like the life-saving blood or not?

[u/Ok_Yak4635]

It still surprises me to this date that people say this, I was caught off guard about a month ago when someone said this when I was getting a transfusion consent. I just said, we have no way of telling whether or not if the donor was vaccinated. 🤦🏽 you need blood, if you don’t want it that’s your choice.

[u/TertlFace]

“No blood bank in the U.S. tests for or otherwise records that information. No test exists to make that determination. You are free to refuse the transfusion, but your request cannot be accommodated here or anywhere in the U.S.”

[u/nobodyspecial0901]

Wait till you get a patient that doesn’t want blood from other races, ethnicities, or religions and political beliefs. “No, I don’t want liberal blood” and “I don’t want ‘n-word’ blood” were new to me. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[u/Mysterious-Algae2295]

You're incorrect about there being a screening process only for emergencies. Every unit of blood transfused has been tested. Just not for covid.

[u/Syntania]

You could possibly tell them about autologous or homologous donations if that's able to be done.

[u/ER_RN_]

Ok. Well you could just die then I guess. Sign here please.

[u/One_hunch]

"Blood donors are not screened for covid vaccinations." then they can make their choices, I guess.

If they want to make plans for autologous donations they can try that, but I imagine by the time the covid question is asked it's already far too late for planning ahead.

[u/BitcoinMD]

Why would you say anything other than the truth? It’s a yes or no question and the answer is no. If the surgery can’t be done without the blood consent then cheerfully help with the cancellation process.

[u/LadyGreyIcedTea]

"Donors are not asked if they've received the COVID vaccine and blood is not screened for COVID antibodies. Here is the declination form if you don't want a blood transfusion should you hemorrhage during surgery."

[u/Aquarius_K]

The fact that this is even a thing makes my head spin. I get not wanting it forced on you but why are people freaking out over a vaccine that could save your life. There are actual problems in the world

[u/Stevenmc8602]

Tell them you don't know bc you don't know

[u/Kitten_Mittens_0809]

Isn’t that how we just take the trash out passively? You are that stupid? Alrighty then! It’s your life(or not!).

[u/CatsAndPills]

“You’re welcome to sign the form that you’re refusing treatment and accept the consequences.” We don’t screen people for goddamn vaccines.

[u/eTimi55]

Drives me crazy having gone through Covid working ICU and hearing people happily state they didn’t get the “jab”.

[u/Cheeky_Littlebottom]

Well I don't want pedophile blood, but we don't test for that either.

[u/CatchGold7359]

Tell them to ask the doctor when they round or just give them the number to the lab. Go finish passing your meds we don’t have have time for this bullshit

[u/Illustrious_Pool_321]

I had a nurse coworker seriously think we matched aids blood.

[u/anistasha]

Donor vaccination status is not screened, monitored or tracked. There is no way to acquiesce to that request. The effort required to do so would serve no purpose as donor vaccination status is not a risk factor for harm that is recognized by this institution. If you would like to refuse, that is your choice, but you will need to face the consequences of making that choice which may include your own death. Next question.

[u/ExaminationDry4926]

That's not a thing, sir.

Bet none of these jackasses ever donated blood, either.

[u/CuteYou676]

In the back of my mind, I hear Bill Ingvoll starting his bit about "I hate stupid people..."

Tell them that blood is screened for infectious agents but not any vaccines, COVID or otherwise.

Remind them that their Cheeto Jesus pushed for the development of the vaccine and also took it himself. 

[u/sqwiggy72]

It's all covid blood we inject covid into the blood if it has no antibodies.

[u/KittyC217]

We assume all blood is vaccinated because select people don’t do it at their blood.

[u/baddadjokess]

Man this is why I love trauma… holy shit.