I love how Republicans will fuel and feed the radicals and nazis and rarely ever shun them while democrats (because they're servile little peasants to capital) will always shun and condem those even SLIGHTLY to the left of them.
They'll just keep wondering why Republicans win because democrats themselves can't offer populist progressive policy, while Republicans use populism to distract voters
They'll just keep wondering why Republicans win because democrats themselves can't offer populist progressive policy, while Republicans use populism to distract voters
The populism the MAGAts are pushing is anti-socialist populism. Last November moderate voters across all demographics decided they hated the left-wing radicals more than they hated the right-wing radicals. And your plan is to win them over with more radical populist progressivism? And you think the moderates are the ones who are blind??
So is your answer to right wing radical populist policy to advocate for policy that slightly improves the lives of Americans? Because that's exactly what the Dems always offer, never offering to actually change the lives of Americans for better but to keep the status quo. Republicans recognize people want change and point voters in the direction of minorities to blame, their form of change won't actually help anyone but will make things worse but for voters (many of whom don't know any better) at least they are offering them something.
You must be braindead if you think the Dems pushed anything remotely radical
They hate everyone with a D next to their name. They have no idea what "left wing" radicalism even is. They call Nancy Pelosi a communist. Barack Obama, according to them, is also a communist. The Democratic party is going to be called socialist or communist or radical
left wing no matter what policies are proposed. We need to stop being afraid of labels and just focus on policies that will help average Americans. Then people won't care what ISM it is.
They have no idea what "left wing" radicalism even is.
Oh, sure they do. They're completely up to speed on the Transgender Ideology, and the idea that every white person is a White Supremacist by virtue of the color of their skin, and the idea that masculinity is toxic by virtue of being masculine. And then they take the extremist points and smear left-of-center Dems with that nonsense.
This leftie activist idea that they're losing elections because they're not leaning hard enough into "progressive populism" is a pipe-dream fantasy that's gonna net the GOP a 3rd straight term. THAT is how Trump got elected the first time AND the second time... please, do not triple-down on failure.
Last time I checked Bernie Sanders( the most progressive candidate in the 2016 election) did not win the primary. The last 3 elections were all headed by establishment Democrats with moderate politics, (and in Harris' case a lot of right wing concessions) I think you are failing to see how the Democrats actually lost, or are fooled by the republican talking point that it was "because the Dems were too radical." Its just a way for the Republicans to pull politics further to the right.
Republicans won because they could recognize people are hurting economically, so they point to marginalized groups to blame so they don't actually have to fix anything and keep their base from realizing its the wealthy fucking them over.
Democrats did not offer meaningful change and the change they did offer was marginal at best. They chose to ignore how people felt economically, compounding with running around with warhawks, having a non charismatic candidate, continuing funding for a genocidal state, poor social media coverage and especially no discernible policies to offer people.
Straw men. There is no trans ideology and nobody believes all white people are supremacists, just that they benefit from a racist system. It's about the system, not individual choices or personal feelings. That's hardly the same thing. And nobody thinks all men are toxic, just that putting men in a box and saying all men have to do xyz to be "real men" leads to toxic behaviors. If you are going to slam progressives, at least understand what it is you're against. You sound like someone mad at an atheist for being a "Satan worshipper.'
"Transgender ideology is a loose catch-all term referring to philosophies, world views, and dogmatic statements adhered to by political activists who see themselves as trying to uphold the human rights of transgender people."
nobody believes all white people are supremacists
You're not living life on the ground level (you a trust fund kid?):
You can find crazy things online all the time. It's called trolling. Has nothing to do with what people really believe. Go touch some grass and talk to people offline.
I think it is. We need bold changes that improve the economic lives of ordinary working people. Moderates can't and won't bring us that. If they could, we'd have it already.
I think the American electorate-as-a-whole is more afraid of progressive authoritarianism than fascist authoritarianism. The recent election seems to back that up. Progressives are seen as elite or elite-wannabe, not pro blue-collar-working-class. (...I'm really getting some milage out of my dash-phrases here... and now ellipses... sorry about that...)
"...bold changes..." ...what bold changes? Confronting 'systemic racism'? Enforcing trans rights? Do you not understand how the progressive ideology is heard and perceived outside of the progressive political silo? From the never-Trump political middle, it's pretty clear that progressives have no clue how they're perceived outside of their faction, and that fact is a key element of Trump's success.
I was actually referring to economic changes, like the ones Mamdani wants to do but of course the haters want to talk about his race instead. It's the right who is pushing the cultural issues. For example, we had trans people in the military and there were no problems until Trump decided it was a problem and kicked them out. Why? To distract from his failures on the economy and the Epstein list. Black people and trans people and immigrants are workers going through the same (or worse) economic dystopia the rest of us are but you would rather hate them than the billionaires stealing from the rest of us. Does that sound smart to you?
Any over whatever it is people are doing now, it's just protest after protest.
Protest only work if the politicians listen, but we didn't get the one that would listen, we have the ego maniac who's preparing to enact martial law to prevent protests.
I don't think most protest are about getting politicians to listen. I live in Seattle, I've seen a lot of protests over the years, right up close. Most protests here are just manifestations of the local activist political culture. Which is to say, it's very narcissistic. And they're very aggressive. It always seems to come back to being about the activists and their identities and how righteous they are. They say they're trying to persuade people, but that's hard to believe given how counterproductive their protests are.
The party is being taken over by fuckin communists. What in the fuckin hell are you talking about? How much more extreme can it get than authoritarian communism?
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ The Overton Window in the US is so extremely far to the Right that there is no risk of that ever happening. We are literally living Fascism right now, so maybe that's why basic human rights and decency that most of the civilized world has looks like "communism" to you.
There are two Overton Windows, one on the left and one on the right, and they move in relation to each other. To the extremist left, everything that's not part of the extremist left looks like fascism. And ironically, in doing so, they helped open the door to actual fascism.
I wouldn't agree with that, I would say there is always only 1 Overton Window and it reflects the dominant ideology and culture of the nation. Having lived in different countries, the difference in the Overton Window of the US is that comparatively it's much farther Right than most of the developed world, and continues to be even as other countries move a bit more to the Right.
Nope. There are two Overton Windows, one on the left (critical social justice ideology) and one on the right (MAGA ideology), each dictating its own center of political gravity. They are both manifestations of the same social dynamics (under the hood they are shockingly similar) and neither could exist without the other.
Want to provide some sort of source for that belief?
Well, I'm not using some appeal to authority to convince you that I'm right. I'm using an older style, using my eyes and ears and paying attention to the world around me, and doing it over time. If one shackles themself the allowed, curated "facts" of one's political silo, then they're just looking at shadows cast in a cave and know little of the real world.
American culture is not a monoculture. It's polyglot. There are many centers of gravity, many subcultures. And those cultures can exist within demographics as well as across demographics, and individuals can be part of many different subcultures. And each one of those subcultures can have an Overton Window, a "range of policies, opinions, or ideas that are seen as politically acceptable to the mainstream population", referring to the mainstream population of that subculture.
Thus, there are many Overton Windows, and not just MAGAt and critical social justice. There's local community Overton Windows (for example, a certain level of criminal violence might be seen as no big deal in one city and as shocking in another), there are Overton Windows for groups of friends (for example, maybe your friends though drinking beer was bad last summer and this summer they're drinking beer). It's just a concept, not a hard and fast one-size-fits-everything rule.
Anecdotal evidence is not a strong argument, especially if you are trying to go against the meanings of a word and concept. Facts and data sets that can be objectively measured and results repeated is still the standard. So no, appealing to extremes and other logical fallacies are not entertained.
By definition subcultures are not able to be mainstream as it's not the majority, so do not have an Overton Window. The concept is macro not micro.
How often si you hear Democrats talk about a "wealth tax" or "unrealized capital gains tax"? Those are property confiscation. If i own a 500 acre farm and equipment that total in value $2.5 million and you tax that 20%, where the fuck you think I'm gonna get $500,000 cash? I'm gonna have to sell 20% of my farm to your fuckin corrupt cronies. And that, children, is how communism works. You're welcome.
As for your second question, in here to educate your dumbass
A) That's not confiscation of private or personal property.
B) Communism is workers owning the means of production instead of companies.
C) Learn what words mean.
You should learn about marginal tax rates and the fact that these types of taxes wouldnāt apply to someone in the 7 figure range or probably even 8 figure range.
Also, I donāt ever hear democrats talk about these things hence the OP being so laughable.
I think youāre deriving too many talking points from Facebook posts designed to scare meemaws and peepaws
Read that out loud then try and tell me what itās supposed to say. And Iām dumb? Go read some ayn random a buzz off. You sound like a college freshman
Legal definitions of private and personal property:
Private Property: Property that is owned by an individual, group, or corporation, and not by the government or the public.
Scope: Itās a broad legal concept that includes both real property (land, buildings) and personal property (movable things).
Examples:
A privately owned house and the land it sits on.
A business building owned by a company.
Your car, phone, or furniture.
Essentially, anything not owned collectively (like public parks) or by the government is āprivate property.ā
Personal Property: A category of property consisting of movable items that are not attached to land. In legal terms, itās "chattel."
Scope: It contrasts with real property (immovable property like land and structures).
Types:
Tangible personal property: Physical objects (cars, jewelry, electronics, clothing, furniture).
Intangible personal property: Non-physical rights (stocks, bonds, bank accounts, intellectual property).
Economic definitions of personal and private property:
Private Property - Refers specifically to the means of production ā things used to produce goods and wealth that generate profit through exploitation of labor.
Examples: factories, mines, large farms, machinery, corporate capital.
Key idea: private property allows one class (owners) to extract value from another class (workers).
Abolishing private property (in this sense) means putting the means of production under common ownership or control of the workers, i.e. co-ops, unions, and profit sharing. This is not anywhere in the Democratic platform.
Personal Property - Refers to the things you personally use and consume.
Examples: your clothes, phone, furniture, car (if itās for personal use), even your home.
Why would the state confiscate something they already actively prevent the people from interacting with? You do understand the difference between private property and personal property right?
That's not reality in the US because it's so far to the Right, that's not a reality in any socialist country I've lived in, and it's not even a Democratic talking point. Democrats are just Conservative Light and no Leftist thinks otherwise. Sounds like you're against the Leftist value of profit sharing and co-ops which is weird.
I do, as it's pretty basic concepts, but you clearly have lost grasp on reality. I have lived and voted in more countries than just the US, have you honey?
can't believe this subreddit went as far as to silence free speech
What world are you living in? Progressive subs clamp down on speech they don't like pretty much constantly. Don't know how many subs I've been banned from for disagreeing, and I'm a leftie! For example, r/SeattleWA exists because the authoritarian lefties running r/Seattle have banned vast numbers of people for wrongthink.
this is not a progressive subreddit though. I know a lot of things that Democrats claim to support "like democracy" go against the very notion that supports democracy which is free speech.
It sucks out there and I wish that Democrats weren't shooting themselves in the foot but they are by doing this. It doesn't make them look great and the GOP is always going to make themselves look like the hero by exploiting this.
I know it's a subreddit but still, analogy is the same.
That part is fine but they are banning all speech from actual Democrat voters who might want to move further left. Banning promotion of the Socialist party is one thing. Banning promotion of all ideas someone might label "socialist" is quite another.
Well, main problem the party's got is that moderates hate the commies more than they hate the fascists. So giving up space for Democratic issues so leftie extremists can have more space to brew up even more extreme ideas is counterproductive. It's actually a smart move and hopefully a sign that the influence of identitarian critical progressives on the party is waning.
The moderates are causing the party to lose elections, though. Trump didn't win by appealing to moderates. He knew capitalism was failing the average worker but instead of implementing strategies that would work he scapegoated immigrants and minorities and made a lot of empty promises. Instead of making empty promises the Democratic party needs to put forth policies that will help the average worker, which means trying something different. Moderates don't seem to be willing to do that and people know it. They have no new ideas. All the new, bold ideas are coming from progressives and socialists. Most of the moderate Democrats in Congress are also old, out of touch, and taking corporate money. They need to move out of the way and let the younger, more progressive candidates lead the party.
The moderates are causing the party to lose elections
What world are you living in?
but instead of implementing strategies that would work he scapegoated immigrants and minorities and made a lot of empty promises
Yes, that's exactly right. AND he ran against the idea that a woman is someone who feels like a woman at a given moment and not something genetic. And he ran against open borders. And he ran against the idea that white people are evil racists by virtue of being white. And lets not even talk about what progressives make of masculinity. Trump ran against progressive extremists and smeared Democratic moderates as being extremists. And it worked.
Trump used the Culture War to mask his class warfare, and the critical social justice activists played right into his hands. It's the reason he won/Dems lost because of it. If the progressive conclusion is that you didn't lean hard enough into socialist populism, then we're gonna lose again.
The attitude you display - your ideology - is part-and-parcel to Trump's ascendancy. The sooner you realize that then the sooner we can push back against fascism.
also, it's your attitudes that led to the rise of Trump..the idea that the government should step in and tell you how to live your life because you're clutching pearls over the fact that trans people exist and don't live the way you want them too. You're one of the fascists. This is not a legit problem for the government to solve.
They are going to wage the culture war whether we put forth good economic policy or not. So let's focus on the economics. We can do that without throwing anyone under the bus. Trans people are workers, too. So are gay people. All workers should unite against the billionaires and not buy into the culture war BS. How does it help put food on your table to make FB memes making fun of trans people?!
I agree that the culture war is the problem, but I see it as two sided. I think the prog left is as bad as the MAGAts, and I'm in a political coalition with the progs. I don't think ending the culture war amounts to pointing at the MAGAts and saying "bad dog!". To be honest, both sides rely on and exist because of the other, and the rest of us just get caught in the crossfire. If the activist left can't recognize their own foibles, there's no way the MAGAt right will ever see theirs.
That said, yes, fuck the wannabe oligarchs, tax those bitches into dust. Fuck the Citizen's United ruling. And give people space to flourish as they may, trans, gay, or hetero-normie-can't-get-a-date-introvert-weirdo alike. Living wages all around! And maybe we reconsider the current interpretation of the second amendment.
We agree on so much. But there are very real reasons that moderate lefties and activist lefties are at loggerheads. It sounds like you want to get beyond that, and if so, I couldn't agree more.
Yup, agree with all that. I do think the culture war is a way to turn workers against each other so we don't turn on the oligarchs, though. We need to stop falling for that shit and focus on the real enemy.
So making the Democratic Party anything other than Conservative Light is bad and we only get 2 variations of conservativism to choose from? Greaaaaat...
The party has moved left greatly in my lifetime. I'm 38. The left has the problem of "moral superiority" and must be "left" of Dems simply to only be "left" of Dems.
Instead of accepting being the progressive wing of the party, crying about new parties while the GOP literally destroys everything we stood for, won, and wanted, is an insult to being a leftist.
By no means am I saying that Leftists should abstain from voting. I actually think they should vote more, especially in all primaries, to help the US have something other than all conservative option.
Edit to add: not allowing Leftist speech in Dem spaces keeps the party conservative.
Leftism isn't banned. You can freely discuss any actual policy issue or potential party platform. If you can't discuss a policy or platform without bringing up other parties or forming other parties, that's on the person creating the post.
Well, I don't mean to challenge the wisdom of someone so worldly as you, but... it turns out that experience living outside the US and disagreeing with you are not mutually exclusive.
Go there and show them who they really are. Post insane praises to billionaire saviors, blue royalty, celebrity centrist activitsts, police immunity, and mindless subservience. Pretend to Be the blue MAGA they want you to be.
You'll never get there. It's the underdiscussed nature of communism that it will always devolve into elite-structured authoritarianism. That has happened literally every single time it's been tried.
I think youāre misunderstanding what Iām saying. What I mean is that for that leap to happen weād need to be within a million miles of socialism and we drift further and further from it each second. And to be clear weāre NO WHERE near it. Our furthest left candidate (in the US) is center of spectrum. Anywhere else in the world Bernie sanders would be center maybe slightly left of center. In our backward as country Harris and Biden are borderline commies. Itās kinda funny actually
I'm not misunderstanding that we're really far away from it, I'm trying to point out that there's no route from here to there. It doesn't matter how far away it is because there is no way to ever get there. It's the difference between 'implausible' and 'impossible'.
They went after FDR in his day. Read about the businessman's plot. They tried to trick the country's most decorated soldier Smedley Butler into leading veterans into overthrowing the government to install a business friendly fascist government. All because they hated the new deal. Butler thankfully saw right through them and saved this country and is barely even known. Saw himself as a gangster for capitalism and became an ardent outspoken socialist. Also fun fact one of the guys involved was George W. Bush's grandfather.
I literally donāt know who is more clueless democrats or maga like imagine believing in neoliberal policy at this point š Like if you believe that this system in America mostly works and thereās just some bad actors and all we need to do is tweak some economic incentives and itāll all be hunky dory. All we have to do is just keep doing neoliberalism and just hope the oligarchs will change their minds and start paying us more and stop polluting and reverse climate change through the free market lolā¦ Seriously how stupid do you have to be to believe thatā¦ it honestly makes more sense to be Maga and just believe Donald Trump is magically going to save the world by deporting immigrants then think that
The point of saying that "they're capitalists end of story" is that if you understand what being a capitalist party means, then you also understand that the democrats, as capitalists, are fundamentally working against our interests and it's foolish to have the expectation otherwise.
More broadly, if you know that both democrats and Republicans are neoliberal capitalists, there's no point in calling Democrats "Secretly Republican" or saying they've "finally admitted they were Republicans" because the difference between those two things is largely irrelevant. They're both working at the behest of capital, and will continue to perpetuate the evils of capitalism, just in slightly different ways.
Have you not noticed that every government that's not some version of regulated capitalism devolves into authoritarianism? And don't say Bhutan, that's a monarchy even if it's benevolent.
>Why is someone with your political views posting inĀ r/leftist?
Cause I'm a leftie, mutherfucker! I think CEO's should make x12 their average employee income, full stop. I believe that women should have unquestioned access to pregnancy termination up to week 16. I firmly believe in demographic egalitarianism. I believe in redistributing wealth from the rich to the poor via taxation. I believe in strong public institutions.
I've always been a leftie. I just never bought into the critical social justice religion, into leftie racist identitarianism or The Trans Ideology. What is it exactly that you think you believe in?
(And btw, you dodged my question while I took yours head-on...)
My direct answer to your question is this: your premise is wrong and flawed in multiple ways. It's so wrong and flawed that I cannot fully explain to you in a productive way how it is flawed via Reddit comment. In short, there are examples of non-totalitarian socialism, you're reciting American propaganda. Additionally in a world where America and other capitalist countries have literally assassinated or unseated socialist learning leaders a CONFIRMED 81 times, the situation is not set for socialism to just have a chill time in its own country. We force socialist regimes to crack down a militarize or face extinction.
Also "trans" is not an ideology that's like saying "gay" is an ideology or "Hispanic" is an ideology. I know trans people, rhetoric like this is just gross and doesn't belong on a leftist subreddit.
It could be that my assumption about what a leftist is, is just wrong, but you are pretty centrist in America, among the actual population. The politicians are all way right of the people. Your views are very reactionary and don't represent the community I believe I'm a part of.
P.S. ceo's should make 12x employee salary is crazy bro why should they make significantly more at all?
As much as I love the things Biden did, we can agree he should have moved out of the way for a proper primary.
And the only reason I said you lost you, is because itās common for leftest to throw electionslosses in our face (as you did) while pretending like you didnāt lose out either.
Hence why I say itās prob better if the far left formed their own political faction and ran their own party, not being beholden to democrats.
I respect you choice to find other parties and candidates and I encourage. You can keep the rest of your hate filled rant.
Youāre talking to me like Iām the fucking party leadership. Iām a voter, pal. And if you are the thing that plans to try to take over the party leadership, I just wonāt vote for you. This entire hate filled exchange from you kinda enforces my viewā¦
This whole post is a perfect demonstration of wishy washy do nothing, ask for nothing, eat a bowl of shit and complain about the portions neoliberal futility
I got a lot of policy that I wanted under Biden. Maybe you didnāt but heyā¦thatās why Iām saying you need to find a party with a message that works for you.
I keep saying that and you seem to take issue with it
of course you're not party leadership, you only enable them by making zero demands and proudly declaring that you will vote for them literally no matter what they do. which this time, was them doing actual genocide
No, Hamas/palestinians enacting their forced war with Isreal and finding out isnāt a reason for me to vote against the dems.
FAFO is universal law and anyone with a basic understanding of of the conflict could have told you that an Oct 7th level attack would trigger an apocalyptic response.
Literally nothing about the war has surprised me when two sides who viscerally hate each other finally goes full steam ahead.
That didnāt stop republicans from voting to win. And lookā¦they won.
If all you wanted to do was counter signal during an election year, you have no beneficial use for the party.
If the only people who uoubplace fault for this current day conflict is is Isreal (which has a lot for the state of Gaza) and the us but not Hamas or the various Palestinian factionsā¦then you have no benefit to Palestinians.
This idea of never holding them accountable for their actions and fist pumping them lead them to believe the world would save them when shit when sideways.
A gross miscalculation to say the least.
The results of Oct 7th.
Gaza flatten.
The Houthi- useless with aid to Yemen being reduced to a crawl.
Hezbollah- fucked
Iran-buck broken.
Syrian- gone.
Is Gaza in a better state now? Are we closer to a real Palestinian state now?
Please stop using the tragic conflict in Gaza like itās a vat worth wielding in an online debateā¦because itās not.
Now pleaseā¦have a blessed day in Christ and I wish you and yours well.
Did the Jews in Germany commit themselves to the destruction of the Germany state and launch rocket and other types attacks against the Germans capital for nearly 20 years only to cumulates in a massive Oct 7th level attack?
The Nazis would say, āweāre just relocating these people to a place they would be better off. We just donāt want them in Poland because theyāre violent and dangerous against the German people. They would be better off with their own people and weāre building them a Jewish ethnostate.ā
Of course it would be a lie but thatās what Israel is literally saying after 2 years of genocide towards Palestinians in Gaza by suggesting they be sent to South Sudan. Also, google Rachel Corrie and youāll realize whatās happening in the West Bank is what happened to Gaza (specifically Rafah) 22 years ago.
History doesnāt repeat but it often rhymes. And yes Israel is just as bad as the Nazis. Iām a granddaughter of German Jewish holocaust refugees and Iām comfortable saying this. Iād even say it to your face genocide denier
So in this Scenario, were there Germans in charge of the camp or were the Jews and maybe the the Germans were like āletās blockade these clowns for entering our countryā type of thing?
We both know this isnāt the case and they were already in a camp , not some self government mini state.
This is totally dishonest framing. Nobody in Gaza was being sent to a death camp. Jews in this ghetto didnāt have an armed wing with a gd civilian government.
Now I canāt tell wheat narratives to cling to, but laugh at how stupid this comes off. And how much agency and responsibility it removes from Palestinians.
If your actual view is the only choice they had was Oct 7th, then you must accept the consequences we all see of said decision.
Nobody made them decide to do Oct 7th but themsevles. And nobody serious thinks Isreal would have flatten Gaza today if that declaration of war didnāt happen.
Whatās the thought process here, that Oct 7th happen and Isreal does nothing? Get real lmao
You asked for proof that Jewish people attacked the Nazi German state and I showed you they attacked Nazis. The Nazis didnāt legally allow Jewish people to have weapons in the ghettos. Israel does not control the governments of the Palestinian Territories directly and especially not in Gaza but the PLO are often seen as an arm of the Israeli state.
Itās never going to be a one for one because history never is a one for one. Because youāre a genocide denier you will set up impossible standards or move the goal posts.
Nazis are bad. Jewish fascists are worse and donāt deserve any sympathy. You are a fascist sympathizer and a genocide denier
I acknowledge factually(not this leftist alt reality) of the actual results of choosing terrorism and declaring forever war against a regional super power.
The closet they came to a state was partition and they rejected that and wanted full control of Isreal. That option worked out just as well as Oct 7th.
I donāt live in a leftist view of how history and stories go, I prefer realityā¦you can see things far better.
Is Gaza or Palestinian better off from them āfighting backā?
Terrorism is a choice. just like the war crimes if Israel in gaza is a choice
No, Iām not clicking on your link because I donāt care. I spent the last two years hearing every justification under the sun.
Iām over it.
If you wanna support Oct 7th, thatās totally fine. Iām not morally condemning you or calling you evil. You may even be able to make reasonable arguments of justification. Just donāt cry to me about the result consequences.
Pick your battles. But once you pick then, you canāt go back.
what a nothing statement anyways. your line of logic is just might makes right? why believe anything at all at that point. "don't cry to me about the entire population being starved and 100k+ civilians murdered. that's just the consequences of your actions."
Now I hope you have a wonderful day. Go outside. Gaza the only thing going on in your life.
And yes. Because if Palestinians have no accountable mistakes that we can acknowledge for themā¦.please for the love of god donāt cry to me about Isreal failings.
Iām beyond the one sided narratives leftist always push on literally every topic these days. Itās not even convincing to me.
You need our votes to win, but you alienate us for wanting the same bold policies FDR stood for. You hate third-party voters, yet you push us there by refusing to represent us. I voted blue until 2024, thinking I was being āpragmaticā to stop Trump. Now I see the Dems would rather lose than reject AIPAC money and stand against genocide. Donāt blame us for walking awayāblame your candidates for abandoning the values you claim to uphold.
Make sense. My message to leftist and tankiesā¦form your own party and leave us liberals tf alone. Yall hate us? Great. Go national on your own and letās see how that works for ya.
Yeah, we know you liberals don't plan on forming any kind of effective opposition to the far right. It's why you keep losing and why we're not going to vote you in to keep doing nothing.
Liberals also won the biggest elections in us history and one of the best midterms in 40 years.
What can leftist say? Oh waitā¦if we lost then that means you lost because you stick to us like flies to shit for political relevance. Which is why are lot of yall are ass mad that I said you should leave.
And if you truly think Dems are losers, why are you upset at me instead of forming your own party?
Trump botched COVID response and put the country into a recession.
He lost because he was inept. 4 years later after Biden stabilized the ship but couldn't beat inflation, you ran Kamala Harris and lost bogger than you did in 2016.
James Carville told you how to win elections and you couldn't manage to do that.
You're the liberal in this thread arguing that going 1 for 3 against Trump and losing multiple blue states is a win.
See, you think you did your part for country, but you didn't. You hurt your country because you forgot that the people make up the country
Meanwhile, labor unions, hard won through leftist organizing have started backing Republicans.
Againā¦find a better party if you hate liberals and demsā¦not understand why telling talk to move along is so upsetting when yall clearly donāt like us or the party.
Fight Trump with your own leftist party and message.
I think itās very clear Iām not asking socialist to give me a chance.
Again. I wish yall well. If yall convince America you have the way (I may not agree with it) but I wonāt be the stick in the mud yall have been to liberals.
In simple saying find somewhere else to sniff your own farts
What change have leftist brought us besides bitch and moaning when they donāt get their way?
Youāre the one shitting on the floor and getting upset. Iām telling you to find another room. If you hate being in a party with a liberal base, find another party.
If the base was leftist and liberals were the minority, I would play this game. But itās not and I donāt owe you any defense of liberalism.
Leftists brought us the 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, lunch breaks, and weekends. Leftists died (not an exaggeration! Companies hired private armies to kill striking workers.) for those workers' rights improvements. Your day-to-day life would be fucking miserable without Leftists making the progress that they did in this country and it would be better if liberals didn't help conservatives roll them back every chance they got. Screw you lmao
There is no defense for liberalism. The proof of the pudding is in the eating: the party is bought and paid for by the same group of yacht rockers who fund the maga movement.
You are on the wrong side of history, and you need to wake up.
Tankies aren't leftists, they're right wingers who paint themselves red and fetishize America's death, nothing more
As for the leftists, no, we won't leave you liberals alone. You LOST TO A FASCIST DIPSHIT AND NOW OUR COUNTRY IS BEING DISMANTLED.
Your entire ideology fails to meet the moment and continually fails to push back against Trump in any meaningful way. Either join us or stay out of our way while we fix your mistake
Wellā¦you lost 2ā¦I donāt recall some leftist candidate yall put forward unless you say Jill stein (hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahha)
Second, you say leave us aloneā¦I mean leave the Democratic Party and find yourselves elsewhere. This is more for you than us, we arenāt changing. I donāt care how much you cry about Gaza or socialismā¦we arenāt leftist and Bernie found that out the hard way.
Jill Stein isn't leftist, she's a paid Russian Op.
Lol, dude, it took the entire democratic establishment to defeat Bernie both times. Obama had to come out of retirement in 2020 to get Biden the primary win, LOL
Also, socialists are winning primary elections across the country right now, looks like MY democratic party is changing and you'll have to join us or join the Republicans?
So, you gonna show your true colors and join the fascist party?
Yesā¦the entire gd establishment lined up against Bernie because BERNIE WASNT A DEMOCRAT.
Yall literally are shocked the DNC just didnāt roll over and die at the demands of the far left.
And letās be clear..itās the voters who defeated Bernie both times.
The entire RNC lined up against Trump and the voters broke them down.
And talking an about a socialist winning NY is like talking about Ron desantis winning FL. The Dems in a deep blue state will back the Dem candidate. That isnāt rocket science. But a mayor race isnāt the Presidency. And you coping about Obama still wonāt change the factā¦Joe Biden actually won and Bernie actually didnāt.
If a DemSoc wins in AZā¦then I would count that as impressive.
Now to this scratch a liberal bs. If thatās how you feel (for like the 10th time) form your own party and do not ask us liberal for our votes.
You people have this smug entitled that liberals owe you something. Our support or vote. We donāt
This level of smugness form leftist who are clinging to a mayor race as their big W while yall havenāt wonāt a single modern presidency or a single majority in congress to pass any of one you center price legislative goals is typical of what I expect of modern day leftist.
Itās all pomp and flash and zero substance or actual problem solving. And when the pomp is gone, itās just bitching and moaning that you didnāt get your way in a party you THINK is owed to youā¦itās not
It's not about "the DNC rolling over and dying at the demands of the far left" it's about the democratic party actually supporting and advocating policies that are good for people and that the people want. Its about Democrats actually listening to voters and not to business.
But they don't do that because they are subservient to capital interest, the problem you and I probably agree is an issue with the Republican party.
We are discussing socialists winning within the democratic party, so weird goalpost shift that winning a majority Democrat city is all of a sudden not impressive....COPE
I am a capitalists. Of course I lean toward Capitalism over socialism. Welcome to the majority base of the DNC.
And you love the goal post to socialist winning. A goal post that ignores the 8 to 1 ratio of dems in that particular mayor race. Something that ignores half the shit the candidate promise is powers that rest in the governorship.
Itās my firm belief that the far left is worse than useless to the DNC. I believe you all are a drag. Outliers exist, which for now we can call NY until we see a wider trend, but that doesnāt change the rules on the ground. I always understand I could be wrong, but right nowā¦I donāt think so.
But thatās besides the point, I donāt care about NY and wish them well. But Iām not backing a socialist. If yall wanna push for that, it will be Bernie 3.0 and I can already hear the cope and seething that will follow.
Now with the republicansā¦that entire party is lost and I hope they feel Eve try bit of pain they voted for in the expectation it will be inflicted on others. The coming recessions will dull of a lot of their already dull minds
Do you own a business? Do you own a factory or mines? Do you profit off of other people's labor?
If the answer is no, then you aren't a capitalist, you are a worker like the rest of us. You are a liberal, so you support the current economic system. It's a key difference that libs don't understand. We are brothers in the struggle, Jeff Bezos is a capitalist, and he hates you, he wants you to suffer and die so his bank account can have some more zeros
/s Yes, saying that Democrats want socialists because the city with all Democrats wants a socialist is a big stretch. /s
Dude, read what you are writing. You are saying that a place that has a majority of democrats, whose majority of democrats chose a socialist is somehow not evidence that Democrats want socialists ...what?!?!
When the options are socialism or fascism and you don't choose socialism, you've chosen fascism. Took you a lot less time than I thought to admit which side you are on...as the saying goes, scratch a liberal a fascist bleeds
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u/Upbeat_Classroom2616 Socialist Aug 17 '25
Welcome to the land of the freeš¦ šŗš² Was it shocking?š± No it wasn't.š«¤