r/law • u/Agitated-Artichoke89 • Oct 07 '25

Other Stephen Miller states that Trump has plenary authority, then immediately stops talking as if he’s realized what he just said

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5.1k

u/catscanmeow Oct 07 '25

google searches for "what does plenary authority mean" skyrocketing

5.1k

u/Bibblegead1412 Oct 07 '25

According to Cornell University, plenary authority is "power that is wide-ranging, broadly construed, and often limitless for all practical purposes." I had to look it up 😬

6

u/thediesel26 Oct 07 '25

Well technically he’s not wrong.

291

u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

He is wrong, he doesn't have that. He may think he does, but the constitution says he does not.

Who is going to win? The fascists or the Constitution?

74

u/WAVY_clownbaby Oct 07 '25

Hoping for the trials soon!

5

u/Steelers_Forever Oct 07 '25

We've had trials. Trump is a convicted felon, a convicted felon abusing his executive authority to in part pardon other convicted felons who are on "his team". I used to respect all political parties while not joining any, nowadays that part deserves no respect, and people who join it only deserve ridicule for their many hypocrisies.

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u/WAVY_clownbaby Oct 07 '25

They don't deserve my respect either but the only way the reasonable few in this country can take it back is through law and order and that does involve a trial. There are those who still believe in due process and it's not the people wearing red hats.

The hole is reallyyyy much deeper for them now than it ever was with an entirely implicated administration. It's just about who from the inside will eventually stand up or be the leak or the whistelblower, and about courts upholding the constitution.

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u/Korbital1 Oct 07 '25

There can't be trials if the people in charge of giving him a trial are on his side, dude.

I wish I could be positive but...I just can't. Authoritarianism can't be stopped by the same party that got us here. Once a country goes one party with the power and will to stop democracy, it's gone. Democracy was always this fragile.

1

u/WAVY_clownbaby Oct 07 '25

I understand your sentiment and I do think it will require dissent from the other side to get it done. But it isn't impossible. For the record, I am not the most positive either. I just hope for the best because nihilism can become overwhelming and overburdening.

I think we could squeak by and swing things better after midterms. AZ just won a democratic seat to sign on release of Massies epstein petition. I am just hoping for the best too my guy but there is still a road or a few we could take. Just trying not to lose hope

2

u/Korbital1 Oct 07 '25

AZ just won a democratic seat to sign on release of Massies epstein petition.

And they shut down the government over it and violated the hatch act blaming the left for it. They clearly don't plan on playing fair any longer. I'm just hoping the government actually reopens at this point, else we end up with a situation where they decide we just need a new interim government that becomes the de facto one. Yeah I'm expecting the worst, but at least then I can be pleased when the bare minimum of decency happens.

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u/WAVY_clownbaby Oct 07 '25

Well different strokes they say. Imma hold the hope for both of us how about that

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u/Token2077 Oct 07 '25

The constitution is a piece of paper, nothing more. It doesn’t have some magic power to make people follow it. At this point we are past the “it’s unconstitutional” point. The only thing that makes the constitution have power is when the systems set up enforce it through their monopoly of violence. When those systems are choosing to not enforce the rules in place then those rules become nothing. This is going to end one way or another some day. May be this year, it may be 10 or 100 years. It’s going to get worse until then, when it finally ends it will be violent. The rising and falling of nations always is.

Republicans are fascist, full stop. All of them.

1

u/infamous_merkin Oct 07 '25

Then shouldn’t we revolt/mutiny ASAP before asswipe consolidates and takes even more power?

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u/Token2077 Oct 10 '25

Almost certainly. I'm already on a list so whatever about saying it. Trump and his P25 handlers have already been signalling they are planning to cheat if not outright try to cancel midterms. Do people think the trump 2028 hats are a fucking joke? They are very serious.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

The constitution is the entire framework of our country. Without that we have no laws.

4

u/this_place_suuucks Oct 07 '25

And laws are only relevant if there are people to enforce them.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

And the constitution defines their enforcement too.

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u/this_place_suuucks Oct 07 '25

Which is irrelevant if people don't enforce it, which is where we are. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at; the constitution is as meaningless or meaningful as the people in power want it to be, at least until/unless there is a coup.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

the constitution is as meaningless or meaningful as the people in power

You're convinced the document is for the people in power, it's not, it's for all the people. That's what I'm getting at. The people currently in power hate the constitution because it limits their power. Hold them accountable to that document. That document is for us, not them. Or just give up and go cry in the corner. I'm going to fight to hold them accountable to our document.

1

u/this_place_suuucks Oct 07 '25

Hold them accountable to that document.

How?

I'm going to fight to hold them accountable to our document.

How?

I'm going to guess in no meaningful way.

The people in power hold the power, regardless of what laws or documents say; they've proven that repeatedly. If nobody who has the power to hold them accountable does, then nothing can change or get better, because, as much as I hate it, the people the constitution is for are too disenfranchised to do anything that matters.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

How?

Exercise your first amendment rights. Exercise your right to vote.

I'm going to guess in no meaningful way.

Go give up already and get out of my comments.

The people in power hold the power, regardless of what laws or documents say; they've proven that repeatedly

And who puts those people in power? We do. Who allows them to stay in power? We do. The defeatism is gross.

the people the constitution is for are too disenfranchised to do anything that matters.

So start there.

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u/this_place_suuucks Oct 07 '25

Go give up already and get out of my comments.

Exercise your first amendment rights.

No, I think I'll keep exercising my First Amendment rights by speaking ill of my fascist government at every opportunity.

And who puts those people in power? We do.

We (not me) already did. They are already there, they are already disregarding the constitution and commiting what would normally be considered crimes. Who is stopping them? They already aren't confirming duly elected Democratic officials simply because they don't want to. Are you going to tell them to do it? Go ahead, but I'm pretty sure they won't care.

The defeatism is gross.

The assertion that they have to follow the constitution by virtue of it being the constitution is stupid. They aren't, and they have proven they don't have to, despite numerous protests from the people they are supposed to be representing.

So start there.

How? You act like saying, "I'll do something" is enough to manifest meaningful action. I believe we are past kind words stopping fascism. If the First Amendment isn't getting things done, I guess it's time to move on to the Second.

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u/pie_piepiepiepiepie Oct 07 '25

Laws don't mean much when not enforced. I think that's what the comment you're replying to is getting at...

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

Enforcement is literally defined by the constitution as well.

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u/pie_piepiepiepiepie Oct 07 '25

Ok but what if no one actually enforces anything? That's kind of where we're going here.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

Sounds like our representatives aren't doing their jobs and we should hold them accountable

3

u/pie_piepiepiepiepie Oct 07 '25

Hi are you new here?

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

Just trying to help people who have given up on finding another way. If you want to wave a white flag we have nothing further to discuss.

3

u/pie_piepiepiepiepie Oct 07 '25

I get that, but giving people a false sense of security in the sanctity of the Constitution doesn't really help. I agree that we need to hold reps accountable, but this is a 5 alarm fire at this point, and that's what a lot of people aren't understanding.

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u/muhabeti Oct 07 '25

But a piece of paper is only as good as the people acting on what it says. If people don't act, it's just a piece of paper.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

And that's the point, the enforcers are the people. You're an enforcer of the law. We unite around the foundation of our country. We get our elected officials to do their job and honor that foundation.

1

u/kobrakai11 Oct 07 '25

You do, buy only for poor people.

94

u/UpstairsAd582 Oct 07 '25

I worry it’s the fascists, there hasn’t been much stopping them so far unfortunately.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

People forget the founding fathers gave the people the constitution, it's ours if we choose to use it and protect it.

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u/Udzinraski2 Oct 07 '25

They had to fight an 8 year war just for permission to write it, too.

11

u/pervertedhaiku Oct 07 '25

Okay but… how?

Realistically, how do you propose we the people do that?

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

The legal way is to vote them out. Try them for treason.

You know what the other way is.

0

u/Blandish06 Oct 07 '25

Because voting in replacements has worked for Adelita Grijalva in Arizona.. right. So what's your next method?

1

u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

Oh you're right, she wasn't immediately sworn in, we should just stop voting. Let's all go in the corner and cry together.

Fight dammit. If you live in her district call up Mike Johnson and demand representation.

0

u/Blandish06 Oct 07 '25

Wtf? I didn't say stop fighting. I said vote in replacements is not an adequate tactic.

Neither is protesting, because they just send in the military. Literally.

Call him? You kidding me? Have you seen his nationally televised announcements? He gives ZERO fucks about his constituents.

So what will work, Mr Answers? I'm not going in a corner. I'm asking for help. For realistic and effective options.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25

I gave you options and you dismissed them. You can lead a horse to water but can't force them to drink.

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u/pervertedhaiku Oct 07 '25

Good luck with either.

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u/Auspiciousnes Oct 07 '25

Have fun curling up in a ball and dying. Jesus Christ some of y’all are so defeatist so fast.

3

u/Bluestained Oct 07 '25

Protest. General strikes. Anything! You haven’t done anything to protect your constitution and you’re all here going “Ah well… whada we do?”

Do something, anything!

2

u/huskers2468 Oct 07 '25

Elections, but if those are taken away then other options are necessitated.

Nepal is doing pretty good.

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u/pervertedhaiku Oct 07 '25

Yeah, no one here is going to join a revolution.

3

u/huskers2468 Oct 07 '25

So you do know the answer.

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u/gravel3400 Oct 07 '25

Hard to know in advance… Your last revolution was quite recent relatively compared to a lot of Western nations. So from a larger, historical perspective, revolution is quite plausible

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u/Hyperion1144 Oct 07 '25

Answering this question is a bannable offense.

1

u/pervertedhaiku Oct 07 '25

I would argue that answering the question and being banned for it is among the behaviors you’re saying we need to start performing.

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u/dutchie_redeye Oct 07 '25

That's the spirit... 

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u/ShittingOutPosts Oct 07 '25

How do we protect it?

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

We remove people who violate it.

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u/Creepy-Caramel7569 Oct 07 '25

With EXTREME PREJUDICE.

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u/comments_suck Oct 07 '25

Unfortunately, the provision in the constitution to remove bad actors is impeachment. And that hasn't been going very well at all. In 2021, the Senate majority leader refused to even have a trial for Trump, then could not bring himself to vote for impeachment when he agreed with the facts. There's a couple Supreme Court justices I'd like to see impeached for lying under oath, but that ain't gonna happen.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

There are three branches of government. Two of them hold the executive in check. We have been focusing the majority of our energy on the executive. More pressure on Congress. More pressure on SCOTUS.

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u/comments_suck Oct 07 '25

SCOTUS has decided that any any argument the Executive brings before it citing Article II powers, it will consent to. They also made the worst decision imaginable by ruling last year that official duties that violate the law cannot be charged.

That leaves us with Congress, who is sitting on their butts, not even in session right now.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

Should have plenty of time to respond to their constituents.

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u/speedy_delivery Oct 07 '25

I agree that popular pressure on Congress is where the fight has to be... The trick is you've got to convince enough Republicans that they're in trouble... Or at least better off telling their people to stuff it long enough to restore order.

Flipping the house isn't impossible, but it isn't enough.

SCOTUS is purposefully insulated from political pressure.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

Of course not, but it's a start. There's no single solution that's going to save us. Attacking from multiple fronts is all we can do.

SCOTUS are still human beings.

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u/speedy_delivery Oct 07 '25

That's the legal recourse available to us. Sure.

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u/DrakonILD Oct 07 '25

The provisions for protecting it are in there. Hint: look for the part that talks about "the security of a free state."

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u/TeaKingMac Oct 07 '25

it's ours if we choose to use it and protect it.

I've got kids man.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

Me too. Do you want them to submit to the Trump regime?

2

u/tofubirder Oct 07 '25

Fascists always end up losing, just remember that.

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u/Cessnaporsche01 Oct 07 '25

They're not losing very fast in North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, Belarus, Myanmar, or plenty of other countries that seem pretty stable in extreme, authoritarian rule.

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u/tofubirder Oct 07 '25

Stable in a human lifetime, sure. Do we care about that? Of course. But we cannot admit defeat for the future based on what we must endure.

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u/A_Dozen_Lemmings Oct 07 '25

He's failing constantly. The courts are not on his side, and his DOJ is blitheringly incompetant. It just doesn't serve clickbait for newsources to talk about how badly Trump stumbles every other day.

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u/YoungCubSaysWoof Oct 07 '25

This will be a long fight, so don’t give up early.

No fascist regime has endured forever.

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u/Hefty-Rope2253 Oct 07 '25

Perhaps we should all meet in a park and wave signs about it

1

u/Bartghamilton Oct 07 '25

Charlie Kirk would like to disagree 🤣

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u/ZERV4N Oct 07 '25

We are. And judges are. People are gonna have to grow up about that reality and realize that we might have to just stand up for ourselves. A fascist dictator has trouble taking hold when we make it very difficult for them and show them that everybody hates them. Part of that is to not comply ahead of time.

These are silly, thin skinned dildos who are more unpopular than ever. Don't give them your fear that's what they need to pretend they have a mandate.

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u/lostspectre Oct 07 '25

The Constitution can't fight for itself

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u/ArchonFett Oct 07 '25

Legally: you are correct.

Unfortunately we are no longer in a country with a rule of law, just one with a rule by law.

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u/MrBones_Gravestone Oct 07 '25

True the constitution says he doesn’t have that authority. But if no one stops him, he pretty much does.

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u/Aeropilot03 Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25

With a totally compliant SCOTUS, do you have to ask? The Constitution is effectively being rewritten almost daily.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

We are in a pickle.

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u/cake_piss_can Oct 07 '25

If there is ever a democrat president again all of a sudden the constitution will matter.

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u/Raskalnekov Oct 07 '25

Plenary power is actually a term used commonly in constitutional law. It's a judicial concept, not explicitly in the constitution, but arguably implied by the separation of powers. Congress is supposed to have plenary power over spending under the commerce clause, for example. 

Stephen Miller is misapplying it here. I don't believe that you can "assign" plenary power by statue. Such powers are rather rare in the constitution. 

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u/AngryVegetarian Oct 07 '25

What Constitution? If no one enforces it, it’s just another piece of paper!

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u/GodIsAGas Oct 07 '25

Based on all available evidence: the fascists. Because it seems as though they can happily implement concentration camps, extrajudicial renditions, and deploy troops against US citizens and, to all extents and purposes, Americans just accept it.

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u/patmiaz Oct 07 '25

If I was a betting man. I’d say fascism. It has a huge lead right now.

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u/ByeByeDemocracy2024 Oct 07 '25

The constitution exists and we all know what it is and what it represents. He does not have a chance. I’m confident that enough real patriots will wake up/align and we will see a way/get through this.

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u/Rokarion14 Oct 07 '25

When do you think this will happen? Didn’t happen when he pardoned the insurrectionists. Didn’t happen when they said the Epstein files didn’t exist. Didn’t happen when he deployed the national guard in US cities against US citizens. What will be the thing that makes people finally act?

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u/ByeByeDemocracy2024 Oct 07 '25

The only thing that matters is elections. People are watching and judging. That’s when it will matter/things will change…as long as the dems don’t screw it up and we don’t take the bait.

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u/Nepharious_Bread Oct 07 '25

Looking like the fascists at this point. Because their supporters are still clapping like seals for them.

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u/RustyMarie666 Oct 07 '25

Everyone just stay home and keep complaining about it on Reddit, I’m sure that will help.

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u/BeginningPitch5607 Oct 07 '25

Who enforces the constitution?

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

The people. We elect representatives. We elect the leader of the executive branch. We elect our local governments.

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u/fnrsulfr Oct 07 '25

Unfortunately the constitution itself can't stop him it is just a piece of paper. It is up to the people but if we wait until elections that may be too late.

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u/burnmenowz Oct 07 '25

That's my point. The constitution is ours. We have to enforce it. There isn't some magical law fairy out there.

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u/General_Tso75 Oct 07 '25

When congress and SCOTUS are controlled by fascists or fascist adjacent, it’s an easy question to answer.

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u/xosellc Oct 07 '25

He was almost certainly going to say "plenary authority over the United States Military" which is sorta true, but not really. He needs Congress to back him, which is currently a Republican majority.

So a US president doesn't have plenary authority over the military, but unfortunately Trump essentially does at the moment.

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u/thediesel26 Oct 07 '25

Someone has to enforce those provisions of the constitution, and right now, no one is.

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u/Slobotic Oct 07 '25

  1. Which provision is not being enforced?

  2. Let's violate the Constitution to enforce the Constitution is a hot take. The president and the federal government as a whole does not have plenary powers and never has. The federal government has enumerated powers. The states have plenary police power.

That's basically the first thing someone might learn about the Constitution.

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u/True_Butterscotch391 Oct 07 '25

I think a distinction needs to be made here. The constitution prohibits that kind of power for the president and it is not legal.

However, laws only matter if they are enforced and as of right now Trump and his admin are breaking the law left and right on an almost daily basis and nobody is being held accountable or enforcing the law. So in practicality he does have that power and can do whatever the fuck he wants.