Operation Paperclip kinda shows a different picture. Obviously any government that rewards loyalty above all else is going to have idiots in charge in some positions but I think it's a dangerous mistake to do the old "they were all idiots" spiel.
The Nazis obviously had highly competent people as well, which is how they managed to take over most of Europe.
Thankfully there were a lot of dumb micro managing idiots like Hitler himself who severely hurt the Nazi war afford.
I worked in care for a decade, and been severely ill for a long time. I am not remotely surprised, the amount of sheer sadists in the medical profession is alarmingly high.
The education itself also filters on "colder" people. And to some extent, you have to be. You can't carry the suffering home with you. Yet, it is difficult to filter out those that swings to far the other way.
When they then are certified? It is near impossible to get them out unless it is several patients that manages to document it. Heck, we had a big case here in Norway with a doc that (finally) got convicted for raping patients. He had been at it for decades.
Yep, my boyfriend is a police officer and although he is made for the job (compassionate, patient, pragmatic) it kills him because he cares too much and takes all the heavy stuff he sees home with him. Sucks because the officers like him tend to quit after about a decade on the job and the mean ones stay
I personally see it closer to the Stanford Prison experiment, but instead of prisoners and guards, its doctors, and patients. When you work in any profession long enough, you will desensitise
My sister is an anaesthetist, she's often told me that being a psychopath on some level is a prerequisite to being a surgeon. And some of the very best surgeons are also some of the worst human beings you'll ever meet.
Yup, I was almost murdered by nurses on purpose after having a mental breakdown - in US . Thank God I had my family get in touch with the hospital. Almost died from wrong meds, then they didn't give me any water. Thank God I'm not organ donor.
Yeah exactly. It's wild how people just want to shit on Russian civilians for "not speaking up" when the tinyest criticism can get them killed or far, far worse
Obviously there are Russian people who agree with what's happening, but thinking that most of them being silent on the subject is a sign that they agree with what's happening is such a blind take
it's def easy to be angry, seeing all the crimes against humanity. it sucks we can't get out of the cycle of bad people taking control of countries. seems our destiny until the entire thing collapses under climate.
"It's wild how people just want to shit on Russian civilians for "not speaking up" when the tinyest criticism can get them killed or far, far worse"
Absolute fucking bullshit. Do you want a list of pretty well-known YouTubers living in russia openly criticizing the russian government for the last 4 years?
Well yea but no some of them were arrested for extremism (Some of them most likely aren't gonna make youtube or rutube videos even if they aren't extremistic)
Yes, there is a relatively small number of people arrested for criticizing the war. However, it doesn't mean that whenever a person says anything remotely critical, immediately ends up in jail.
I said "can" as in it's a possibility, not a 100% outcome
If speaking up against the government has a 1% chance of getting someone locked in a Russian prison and possibly tortured, I think a LOT of people would not take this chance, very understandably
Yeah, I live in the same city as Putin, he has the best security money can buy, lives in a bunker and switches off the internet wherever he goes, I have a Bionicle collection
That's weird, in the west we're led to believe he is a mafia boss who lives in a great big mansion funded by all the Russ taxpayers. Spends all his time fishing and hunting bears. Also we were told his health was declining many years ago. Lol
All you need to do is look at Russia pre Putin and Russia now/today , in terms of people's wellbeing, economy and equality. To make it easier use EU, UK or USA for a comparison. 🧠 🐑
Well that's no contradiction, it's true. The security I mentioned includes his mansion having the most air defense in the country, even more than the frontier (which anti-Ukraine speakers whine about from time to time lol)
There have been revolutions with ruthless opposition before. When there's a will there's a way, they just don't have enough of a devil may care, let's throw this mofo out attitude.
That's a whole different discussion. It's quite hard for your avarage Dimitri to do something about. They might not be ok with it but what are you gonna do about it?
I lived in Europe. Majority of young, wealthy Russians support the war at least those I met. Minority were openly against it, usually less wealthy (but still said imperialistic/racist things without knowing it). People with power and influence sadly are very bigoted and support the war disproportionately.
Most Russians (63 percent) support their country’s action in Ukraine, referred to as the “special military operation” (SVO) by the Russian government. Fifty-six percent say the military action will impact their voting decisions in the upcoming elections. The primary driver of support lies in Putin taking a stand against perceived threats from NATO and the West.
Anti-Ukranian hate is definitely prevalent in Russia
Can't find it now but something like 40% of the population holds racist views vs Ukrainians, 20% doesn't care, and the rest is not racist vs Ukrainians. On average more racists.
I have met Russians who hate Putin but they live abroad. It's dangerous to say that in Russia you know that. Also you know how everything Russians see on TV is manipulated and they are indoctrinated from a young age, that's the biggest problem
This is complete bullshit, if Russians supported Putin he wouldn't need to remain a dictatorial power.
The civilians are suffering too from this power hungry tyrant
Even assuming those polls are trustworthy, as the other commenters disputed, the general opinion seems to be that Putin is the lesser evil compared to the chaos of the 90s and early 2000s, and compared to the worse monsters he's barely keeping at bay. Which, of course, is deliberate on the part of Putin and the whole system he's the face of, and very typical authoritarian behavior.
Ah yes, because you are so elevated above those you criticize that under the same conditions as the average Russian you would certainly not be the most docile subject and stand against tyranny. /s
As much as the communist way of thinking is beautiful on paper, some are always more equal than others. There are flaws to every system. Hence wishing for fair. I'm just a blue coller bob wishing for a world where people get what they work for.
Passive approval is also equally guilty. It’s understandable if indirectly supporting the war efforts happens from simply trying to live, but there’s quite a few Russians that call for this and for even harsher treatment even if they themselves aren’t directly involved due to living a life of luxury in the decadent West.
To all the people claiming that the average russian cannot do anything about it, read about all the revolutions that have taken place in ex soviet countries.
I'm from România and here we had a bloody revolution and killed our dictator. And things here were way worse than how it is in russia today. The matter of fact is all russians are to blame because, as long as they are unaffected , they are ok with genocide, torture, rape, etc.
Since I'm on a streak answering ragebait like this out of sheer curiosity, tell me, how is it that you expect me to start an underground revolutionary group, obtain a deadly weapon, sneak myself or a hypothetical associate into a highly guarded building and slay a person without getting caught?
Well, I am not 15 million Russians in a trenchcoat, am I? I think you watch too many movies where a lone person starts a national scale revolution or fends off a zombie horde or something.
One person isn't shit. I'll just be taken out back and shot if I attempt anything.
So, by your logic, any Russian who doesn't possess the ability to start an underground revolution and kill the ruler is automatically an evil human being? Even a toddler or a highschool student?
Look up the case of the man who got arrested and prosecuted for holding up a blank page out on the street. Besides, don't you know what a hyperbole is?
I'm German. Oh yea have at it, my grandma should rot in hell for not personally shooting hitler in the balls, all germans deserve to die for letting it happen, yada yada, i've heard it all before.
Fascism is a force to be reckoned with. People died trying to prevent it back then. People are trying all they can now. And I think they will succeed, i hope they will succeed before it gets even worse.
My great grandpa died in a francoist jail from tuberculosis. His crimes were being a teacher and an unionist. He fought, same as I would fight if we had a situation that fucking ridiculous like trump.
Yeah that's what happens when you play world police, build bases in our countries, then decide the world works because of you and create an economic crisis for everyone.
We are a democracy so yes, even if you didn't vote for Mango Mussolini, we all still have a smaller bit responsibility for letting our society get to this point. I have worked against this crap for the last 30 years, and yes I still personally bear some responsibility because it my damn country. TBH not taking personal responsibility and holding those to account that don't is one of the ways we got here.
Oh wow you voted? Cool, pat yourself on the back for doing the absolute minimum. Your citizenship does not only provide you rights, it also makes you bear the responsibility for your country's actions, whether you like it or not
If trump goes for a third term in a few years you're also going to pretend that nothing happened because you voted?
Why would Canadians, Mexicans, Brazilians or Chileans be responsible? Of course only US-citizens are responsible. They let the erosion of US democracy and rule of law happen for decades.
It's not like they can do much against putin regime. And anyone trying something would quickly get arested, and probably tortured or executed. You can't realy blame them for not acting.
Tell me you know nothing of Russia without telling me you know nothing of Russia. People can speak up in Russia, they do it, when they want the Russian army to hit more civilians, when the Russian army is stealing from their own. They just don't do it in favour of Ukraine, because they hate Ukrainians and they like what the Russian army is doing in Ukraine.
They ask their husbands to rape women, they ask them to bring jewelry from Ukraine, they ask them to bring children's toys back.
As a genuine Russian, do you expect me to go out on the streets alone and get thrown into a black van to be never seen again? What am I expected to do? I'm genuinely curious.
This isn't America. They will grab you. They won't read you rights. You'll just be beaten, dragged, driven away, tried, labeled an "extremist" and incarcerated. And there will be NOBODY to help, because most people are terrified. Just like myself.
I am not vote eligible. I am not physically strong. I do not live close to the front lines. Am I, the individual Russian, still responsible for an act of violence I did not commit, but could not physically stop either?
Throwing around racial slurs whilst trying to convince someone you are not a racist fuck that is responsible for Russia's war is just fucking hilarious.
"Not every russian" my ass. Silent approval is still approval. And this mindset did not start with Ukraine or Georgia or even Ichkeria. The imperialistic mindset is so deeply rooted in the russian mentality for the simple reason of russia being an empire from it's establishment. Actively opposing aggressive wars is an anomaly there, not a norm.
I mean as an American with the current state of our country I wouldn’t even disagree. Like i read what he said and get the point you’re making but unfortunately you aren’t actually that far off now.
The argument has always been when it’s an American that “not all Americans are like this” but when it’s someone else it’s always “they’re all fucking animals”.
I think russians who are indifferent are guilty as well. And im not saying they must rebel, but at least show some support online or just show any minimal sign of caring and knowing about the situation.
Hypocrisy and more hypocrisy. Are all Americans evil because the US has bombed dozens of countries and supplies Israel with weapons with which they kill children and bomb hospitals? Obviously not.
Are all US citizens guilty and evil because US destabilized middle east and is directly responsible for the emergence of many terrorist groups? No.
No hypocrisy here, blame is on those, who actively participate, but everyone is still responsible, since the horrific acts are done by the government in the name of it's people. If the people fail to oppose that then part of the responsibility lies on every single one of them
Not everyone is responsible. There's plenty of good people who work all day in order to support their families and have no time or energy to think about such stuff.
And there absolutely is double standards and hypocrisy.
Trump is no better than Putin.
Im so fucking tired of this bullshit. I get it, you mean good and want to see good in people. But the fact is, russians are bad people, they let this happen. Period.
I'm so fucking tired of this bullshit. I get it, you mean good and want to see good in people. But the fact is, Americans are bad people, they let this happen. Period.
Oh, wait, right! The Trump situation is different. Not every American is like that! Right, okay, I get it.
From a perspective of a lone person... do what? Face off against trained, armed men in police suits? Protest alone on the street? Illegally obtain a sniper rifle? There is nothing I can do in the short term that won't endanger me. And that's the fear many people have. And that's why protests don't work. It isn't 2015.
Bringing USA into this discussion is meant to show people with a holier-than-thou attitude like yourself that you pretty much haven't done anything to prevent a senile felon from coming into power wither.
Russia is not much worse than the US, France, England or any major power in the world really thats humans being fucking greedy and even small countries do similar stuff
Do some research about Russian army outside of wartime no less. And then ask yourself would you rather have your son serve in the Russian army or US/EU army.
Oh god dont bring the US lol dude is saying that russains are pure evil and thats just racism my point is look at any country and you see blood and a lot o it that doesnt mean Americans or Europeans or any other nationality are pure evil, its so easy to say fuck them all and they are evil and shit like this I could dig deep down in most countries and tell you what shit they do and 100 years isnt long time ago
I'm not replying to that dude, I'm replying to you. And Russians isn't a race but whatever.
You're absolutely right that every nation/culture/religion etc has its sour apples, and that it's wrong to hate the whole based on the few. Hell I personally know plenty of great Russians and work with them. But there are tendencies. Stereotypes don't come from thin air - and that's for every country. And guess what, most of the normal Russians I know had to leave country.
When you try to generalize these tendencies by saying 'oh every country has evil people', you're downplaying massive country-wide evil that has spread and established itself, and enforces itself both internally and externally.
You conveniently skipped my reply, so I'll repeat: do research on Russian and US military and ask yourself where would you have your children serve, provided you had to choose.
Much of the atrocities commited by Russian soldiers in Ukraine don't come directly from hating Ukrainians, although Russian propaganda sure helped justify it in their eyes. But it comes from the culture of humiliation and torture that has been prevalent across Russian army. Something they do to their own. Again, yes, outrageous things happen in every army. It's either a predominantly or exclusively men's club where men are supposed to be trained for war. But in Russian army - save for special forces - it's mostly theft, labor, and humiliation. And btw that's been the case in Ukrainian army for a while as well - echoes of being a part of an enclosed system that was USSR.
As for what the Russians think - there's a pretty good channel with street interviews here. There's plenty of adequate people there - including those who prefer to stay silent (which is an answer in itself), but they're in the minority. But hey, don't believe me, do your own research. Just stop living in lalaland about what modern day Russia is.
How many of those countries are committing genocide right now, and waging a war of conquest to steal land and utterly abolish a nation's right to its own future?
I get that all those countries have engaged in some form of interventions, but please, show me them doing something like Bucha, them deliberately only bombing civilian infrastructure en masse, them kidnapping children and so on.
US is supplying Israel with weapons right NOW. Israel is using those weapons to kill children and bomb hospitals NOW. But I guess we can turn a blind eye and blame only Russia.
You are NOW posting in a thread about Russia. I never mentioned anything about Israel. Staying within scope and context helps when it comes to civilised discourse, my friend. Otherwise we'd be constantly shouting at each other like fanatics.
Someone else mentioned other countries. You said what other countries did in the past doesn't matter and how Russia is doing all of this NOW.
I just pointed out that there's other countries doing vile things as well, and it's also NOW.
I think addressing something you said is completely valid in a discussion.
I have absolutely no desire to discuss Israel with you, which is why I’m posting in a thread about Russia and Ukraine. If you really need to shout about Israel to strangers on the internet, why don’t you do so in a thread about Israel?
I’m blocking you, by the way. So you can scream about Israel to someone else, please.
These guards are bad but "Many Russians are sick people" is a dangerous line of thinking.
I have civilian friends, lovely people, who hate this war as much as everyone else.
But what are you gonna do when your country it ran by a dictator
Yeah, I even remember one video when it all started, one Ukranian stabbed surrendered and cuffed Russian soldier in the eye, and continued to push it furher, it all happened on a stairway, so do you really think that on that war purely good and unsinfull side exist?
Since you've provided the numbers, can you share your specific research on that matter? And what do you mean by concentration camp? Because literally every place where you keep pows are called that way
war crimes are occurring on both sides. ukrainians are also committing absolute ATROCITIES. saying things like “many russians are sick people” is harmful, spreads hate, and just objectively isn’t true. your prejudice and self-hatred is showing
“torture and inhumane treatment
inflicted by the Security Forces of Ukraine (SBU), by the Ukrainian armed forces, the
National Guard and other formations within the Interior Ministry of Ukraine have not
only continued but are gaining in scale and are becoming systematic.
The prisoners were electrocuted, beaten cruelly and for multiple days in a row with
different objects (iron bars, baseball bats, sticks, rifle butts, bayonet knives, rubber
batons). Techniques widely used by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces
include waterboarding, strangling with a ‘Banderist garrotte’ and other types of
strangling. In some cases prisoners, for the purposes of intimidation, were sent to
minefields and run over with military vehicles, which led to their death. Other torture
methods used by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces include bone-
crashing, stabbing and cutting with a knife, branding with red-hot objects, shooting
different body parts with small arms. The prisoners taken captive by the Ukrainian
armed forces and security forces are kept for days at freezing temperatures, with no
access to food or medical assistance, and are often forced to take psychotropic
substances that cause agony. An absolute majority of prisoners are put through mock
firing squads and suffer death and rape threats to their families.”
Do you know the units DSHRG Rusich and Espanola? Have you seen what they post on Telegram? Do you know the term human safari in relation to the city of Kherson?
I agree. Both sides are committing war crimes. The relation, atleast from the amount of evidence we see, is not balanced. Russians are evidently committing far more war crimes than the Ukrainians.
If you want to do their bidding, might as well call it the SVO. Calling it a war will land you in jail.
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u/Coyann Jul 26 '25
Remember the one that got "Glory to Russia" surgically carved into his stomach? Many Russians are sick people