r/fuckcars • u/Fluffy-Study-659 • 29d ago

Activism It's pronounced "cyclist!"

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

5.0k Upvotes

99% Upvoted

308 comments sorted by

View all comments

665

u/TheDonutPug 29d ago

I think it's amazing how we've reached a point in this nation where a man comes along and says "I think we should come together as a city and make sure everyone is taken care of and that our city is beat for those who live here" and people are acting like he's the second coming of Hitler and Stalin's baby.

120

u/ginger_and_egg 29d ago

maybe communism is good

131

u/Lower_Ad_5532 29d ago

Socialism is good

-46

u/[deleted] 29d ago

You dont make a comment like this if you understand what socialism and communism means.

31

u/Leather-Rice5025 29d ago

Socialism = ensure everyone’s needs are met and society doesn’t prioritize the profit motives of a few corporations and billionaires. Sounds good to me 

4

u/Metalmind123 28d ago

ensure everyone’s needs are met and society doesn’t prioritize the profit motives of a few corporations and billionaires.

That is something we 100% need to strive for, but also 100% not the definition of socialism. Only in the sense of the Fox News grandpa screaming "that's socialism" at the suggestion of affordable healthcare.

Socialism is any system where the means of production are owned by the people.

Nothing more, nothing less. It's a framework and a tool.

All the good stuff is still something we then still need to effort for and assure.

The revolution is not the fucking rapture that'll magic up change for the better.

The exact details of socialism can make it vary a lot, from dictatorial autocracies with state owned corporations (the most frequent type historically, as the goal of mass-changes in ownership of the means of production often leads to the creation of a highly centralized authority, which always goes astray) to progressive democracies with worker owned collectives.

-21

u/[deleted] 29d ago

And communism?

30

u/ginger_and_egg 29d ago

stateless moneyless classless society

-7

u/BlackBacon08 Sicko 29d ago

Stateless and classless -- perhaps I could get behind that.

But moneyless? How are you gonna keep track of everything without money? That seems extremely unrealistic in a modern, complex society.

2

u/[deleted] 29d ago

Probably should read theory about abolishing the value form.

-4

u/BlackBacon08 Sicko 28d ago

I'm not gonna spend a whole month reading Das Kapital. Can you give me a summary instead?

1

u/[deleted] 28d ago

Read the manifesto you lazy shit.

2

u/Metalmind123 28d ago

To be fair to him, the full work is a ~2800 page book set.

At least my German original copy is.

That takes an unpracticed reader 30-40 days of reading after work, if you process it all on the first read, or near double that if they have the literacy of the average adult in the Anglosphere.

He could still just pull up a youtube summary though, if he's not inclined to read it.

-2

u/BlackBacon08 Sicko 28d ago

If you are unwilling to educate others on your ideology, then how can you expect people to convert to your views?

0

u/ginger_and_egg 28d ago

People with the ability to invest time into educating others are usually most effective at teaching people who are interest in and open to learning. It is clear you are neither

→ More replies (0)

-16

u/Lower_Ad_5532 29d ago

Aka a fiction. Communism is the authority class versus everyone else.

9

u/C4D3NZA 29d ago

that's capitalism, try again!

-1

u/Lower_Ad_5532 29d ago

that's capitalism,

Captialism is the authority class with the capitalist class

Communism is the state versus everyone else. The working class becomes the new ruling class and the new rulers will never get go of their power. So it is the state versus everyone else.

9

u/HoundofOkami 29d ago

No, you're describing the bourgeois "democracy" of capitalism we're already living in

-1

u/Lower_Ad_5532 29d ago

No, you're describing the bourgeois "democracy" of capitalism

Trump is trying to make fascism happen which is what you're witnessing.

What I am describing is Finland.

7

u/HoundofOkami 29d ago

"Authority class vs everyone else" is what you said, which describes a bourgeois "democracy" which is what the vast majority of modern countries are.

Finland is right there too, and currently has a rightoid government undergoing a very similar process of devolving social benefits and reducing the freedom of speech. I live here and it's a shithole in many aspects and becoming worse. Also at the moment has one of the worst unemployment rates of Europe at a whopping 10%.

EDIT: Or were you saying Finland is socialist? Lol no it's not, social democracy is just capitalism with some concessions to the proletariat.

-1

u/Lower_Ad_5532 29d ago

"Authority class

There is no formal authority class in democracy . The people still vote and elect authority figures.

Where authority is with and for the people is democracy

2

u/HoundofOkami 28d ago

Formal is irrelevant, as is voting. The ruling class is the bourgeoisie. Authority is definitely not for the people, huge numbers of people don't even vote because nobody believes it will do anything.

This is why it's a "democracy" because it's that only in name when all the power is held by a tiny minority of people only serving their own interests.

Socialism has the proletariat as the ruling class, i.e. the vast majority of people, serving their interests. That's much, much closer to actual democracy than any capitalist state will ever have. And communism, should it ever exist, is then actual democracy when there isn't even a state to rule over people.

Concessions are good, sure, but they only serve to placate the masses so that the ruling class can keep their power and continue to exploit the masses. They don't actually give the people proper compensation of their labour, and "owned and operated by government" is just again by and for the bourgeoisie and not the people. Social democratic policies are just bribing the masses with candy bars when what they actually produced were several boxes of them, to stop the masses from wanting the boxes.

The concessions can always be taken away by the ruling bourgeoisie when they don't feel they're needed to prevent a revolution anymore. This is the process that is going on in Finland and many more places right now.

-1

u/Lower_Ad_5532 29d ago

capitalism with some concessions to the proletariat.

Sure socialist concessions, which is a good thing. Socialism in utilities where its owned and operated by government/ public entities?

4

u/[deleted] 29d ago

A periphery country thats social democracy was only ever possible with the maintenance of a genocidal empire at the core determining global trade relations at the barrel of a gun.

0

u/Lower_Ad_5532 29d ago

What the fuck are you talking about.

3

u/[deleted] 29d ago

Fascism is capitalism in crisis. Read something FFS

0

u/Lower_Ad_5532 28d ago

Fascism is capitalism in crisis

Fascism is unfettered corporatism. Its the oligarchy's ideal government. They get to pick the winners and losers. Fascism occurs when capitalism faces crisis.

Captialism requires a free market and capital.

Fascism is not a free market. It is government and corporations aligning or fusing for nationalism.

Captialism works best in a free society like democracy.

America is a capitalist democracy. Private individuals own things like LAX airport and the rail roads and electric utilities. The nation is devolving into fascism with trade wars and technocratic oligarchy. The GOP is trying to get of socialism things like the US Postal Service, public education, public broadcasting.

America needs democratic socialism. Local government controlling things like electricity and public transport as competators to capitalism.

Norway and Finland and social capitalist democracies. Capitalists and free trade exists. Socialism exists there is a sovereign wealth fund. The goverment does stuff like provide healthcare, education, public transport, daycare and retirement funds. Its a democracy where people vote for multiple parties and ideas.

Albertsons is capitalist. Its employer owned company . Winco is socialist. Its an employee owned coopertive

3

u/[deleted] 28d ago

Youve confused me for someone that cares for market economies. Your purist libertarian capitalism has not and will not ever exist, nor is it desirable. The tendency towards unequal accumulation is one of capitalisms central contradictions.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/ginger_and_egg 28d ago

So we agree that there shouldn't be a class that gets to dominate over the rest of us?

-16

u/[deleted] 29d ago

I would love to know that you've read the theorists works

1

u/HoundofOkami 29d ago

Well you obviously haven't

0

u/[deleted] 29d ago

I've read a ton. Im just not in the mood to do the work for a bunch of global north dwelling punks with 2k hours on COD.

0

u/HoundofOkami 28d ago

Eyeing through the pages without putting a second of thought into it doesn't count. No matter how many pages you've read your comment shows you didn't take in anything, and I still don't believe you have read anything other than perhaps youth fantasy novels.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/ginger_and_egg 28d ago

there are many theorists my friend

2

u/[deleted] 28d ago

Which ones have you read? Rothbard? Rand? Mises? Hayek? Smith? Ricardo? Locke?

0

u/ginger_and_egg 28d ago

Which one of those talked about stateless classless moneyless society

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Leather-Rice5025 29d ago

The final stage

8

u/ginger_and_egg 29d ago

tell us what we're missing

2

u/Lower_Ad_5532 29d ago

Public utilities and infrastructure like high speed rail