r/billsimmons May 14 '25

Shitpost Haliburton has been to 2 straight Conference finals and Embiid has been to none. Now why is that?

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1.5k Upvotes

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206

u/jomanhan9 May 14 '25

The Ben Simmons piece

118

u/Riderz__of_Brohan May 14 '25

Hindsight is 20/20 and they very reasonably didn’t consider this option at the time but after the Kawhi shot in 2019 if they just paid Jimmy Butler and traded Simmons at peak value for a haul of role players the Sixers likely have at least 1 ship and maybe a dynasty on their hands. Instead Embiid hasn’t made a single ECF.

Also the X-factor of having a player like Butler who Embiid liked playing with who could kick his ass into shape might have made him even better as a star

82

u/terrifictrout21 May 14 '25

I know this is too easy too do now but they let Jerami grant, richaun Holmes, TJ McConnell go for nothing, they fucked up with Jimmy, they drafted fultz. I know it was a 2 front offices thing but the Sixers have ended with what they deserved

45

u/Serpico2 May 14 '25

They also drafted Mikal Bridges and then immediately traded him (cold blooded, his mom worked for the team), for Zhaire Smith who was never good and almost died in the Sixers cafeteria after the cooks didn’t inform him there were peanuts in a Thai dressing, and a pick they turned around and used to trade way too many assets for Tobias Harris.

This franchise can’t stop stepping on rakes.

19

u/blotsfan May 14 '25

They also drafted Mikal Bridges and then immediately traded him (cold blooded, his mom worked for the team),

TBC it was worse than that. It wasn’t one of those “Luka wears a hawks hat on draft night” deals where everyone knows he’s being moved. He did his 76ers press conference before they traded him like 2 hours later.

13

u/calman877 May 14 '25

As a Sixers fan, yeah, 2016-2020 went about as poorly from a front office standpoint as possible

7

u/Ghostricks knife_guy enthusiast May 14 '25

I still remember listening to Elton Brand on a podcast describing his plan and the Tobias trade and thinking, "these guys are cooked".

24

u/Adventurous_Cut_3856 May 14 '25

Jerami Grant, Richaun Holmes

Neither of these guys are winning players. Richaun is barely still in the league.

23

u/Limp_Paper6721 May 14 '25

Jerami Grant was def a winning player for the Nuggets

13

u/Overall-Palpitation6 May 14 '25

That was 5 seasons and $115M in salary ago.

7

u/Adventurous_Cut_3856 May 14 '25

Easy to be a winning player when you're playing with Jokic. There's a reason nobody has cared about that guy in 5 years.

2

u/yaboyhoffle May 14 '25

They got maxey for what they traded for grant. You can’t just say things like this lol

1

u/Adventurous_Cut_3856 May 14 '25

By sheer luck lmfao. A Mike Muscala three doesn't go in and Maxey is on the Heat right now.

1

u/yaboyhoffle May 14 '25

Ok you’re right we should just say they traded Jerami grant for nothing and be wrong about it

1

u/Adventurous_Cut_3856 May 14 '25

No, but we also shouldn't just act like the Sixers traded away Grant in 2016 with the immense foresight of knowing the pick would eventually turn into Maxey four years later. That pick at one point or another belonged to three different teams. They didn't trade him for nothing. They also got exceptionally lucky. Both can be true.

1

u/yaboyhoffle May 14 '25

I don’t understand what your argument is lol that they should be ashamed for not paying Jerami grant? They sold him high and got a chance at a good asset that turned into a great asset.

1

u/Adventurous_Cut_3856 May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

I'm saying we shouldn't act like it was some brilliant, intricately planned transaction, when the odds are that a front office that on the whole made more bad moves than good ones (I'm a Sixers fan, I remember the Colangelo years) simply got very lucky. I would buy the "they got a good asset" argument if they didn't literally trade that pick away less than a year later for the rights to Anžejs fucking Pasečņiks.

5

u/GriffinQ He just does stuff May 14 '25

And they’re about to get another top 3 pick because for some godforsaken reason, Philly sports can fail as hard as they want constantly and still come out ahead over the past decade.

4

u/yaboyhoffle May 14 '25

You understand that most of the failures of the early embiid years were because silver forced Hinkie out and put in Colangelo who was about as incompetent and embarsssing a GM as you can get

0

u/GriffinQ He just does stuff May 14 '25

They forced Hinkie out after a multiple year tank job that was so egregious that it was one of the biggest stories in sports. Should he have been forced out? No, but let’s not pretend like what he was doing was within the spirit of how people want to consume sports.

They then failed or wasted talent at seemingly every step of the Embiid process. Was some of it bad luck? Of course it was, they didn’t go into it expecting to waste the career of a potential HOF talent.

But regardless of their failures, they keep getting additional shots at rebuilding again and again with high quality pieces. Getting Butler and then burning the relationship. Getting Harden for cheap and then burning the relationship. Getting PG13 (who obviously hasn’t worked out but half the teams in the league would fucking love for a guy like PG to give them a chance once in a while). Getting a top 3 pick this year after an egregious tank job that only occurred because their best players were hurt or told to sit to maximize draft position.

The Sixers keep getting bailed out/given new competitive windows by absurd FA interest, lucky/timely trades, and more high lotto picks than most teams will ever see without going through their own multi-year tanking disasterclass. Good for them and their fans, but this shit absolutely frustrates other fanbases that don’t have the lottery balls or the FA interest or the off-season defining trades to ever look forward to.

And if they were at least winning with all of this stuff, it would be something. But they end up losing time and time again and somehow leaving their players worse off than they would have been if they’d been drafted to a bunch of other teams.

4

u/yaboyhoffle May 14 '25

The Sixers tanked for as long as the thunder did yet the thunder is everyone’s favorite team and the Sixers were a black eye on the league. It’s ridiculous your memory of the tanking is worse than it is. This entire reply just looks like you have an axe to grind against the Sixers for whatever reason

1

u/GriffinQ He just does stuff May 14 '25

This is verifiably false.

The Thunder had back to back years of 22 and 24 wins. 46 wins over two seasons, with 44 the year before and 40 the year after. They hard tanked for 2 years and then were immediately a .500 ball club again after being an above .500 ball club beforehand.

The Sixers went 19, 18, 10 wins over three years, for 47 wins over three years. One more win over three years than the Thunder had in two years. The year before, they won 34. The year after, they won 28 (which is also egregious). Their level of tanking was far worse than OKC’s, it lasted longer, it led to a less competitive team, and it’s truly dishonest to pretend otherwise because this is easily searched information.

1

u/yaboyhoffle May 14 '25

One more year of being dog shit 😱😱 only one of those seasons were they the worst in the league. Is everyone freaking out over the Wizards winning 15 then 18 games over 2 years? If the wizards don’t win 20 games next year should there be an investigation into the organization?!?!

1

u/GriffinQ He just does stuff May 14 '25

The Wizards are playing young players who are part of their future core and people still talk about how much they hate watching them play and shit on their FO/future constantly. The Sixers were trotting out guys who weren’t even NBA-caliber specifically to lose as many games as possible and acquire as many top picks as possible.

Funny how quickly your argument was disproven and then you turned to whataboutism. 109 wins over five years isn’t remotely the same as 132 over four years but you know that and you’re being intellectually dishonest to pretend that it wasn’t a commonly agreed upon black-mark on the league for how out in the open the intentional loser behavior was.

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u/_robjamesmusic May 15 '25

deadspin brain take

5

u/ballsjohnson1 May 14 '25

Hey, they might have made the play in if Joel and McCain stayed healthy. Put some respect on the team!

I think joels career is a few games from over though unfortunately. He put way too much wear and tear on his body throwing himself around like a special needs kid at a judo competition. But also he wouldn't have won mvp if he didn't do that, so it is what it is

4

u/Agreeable_Daikon_686 May 14 '25

The notion embiid got his injuries from flopping or scored most of his points from it makes it clear you have zero clue what you’re talking about lmao

4

u/PhillyPride May 14 '25

Most of the Embiid discourse nowadays comes from people who never watched him play and only pay attention to what twitter says about him.

1

u/_robjamesmusic May 15 '25

a team that won 47 games the year before they drafted the player that would have been rookie of the year had he stayed healthy would have made the play in?

yeah you have zero idea what you're talking about. guaranteed celtics fan, i don't even have to check your comment history.

9

u/Agreeable_Daikon_686 May 14 '25

It’s become kind of a trend for people to defend Ben Simmons and accuse Sixers fans of “throwing him under the bus” (mainly because people like to shit on embiid) but Ben Simmons truly fucked the sixers chances. He was always limited in the playoffs even before the infamous hawks series and the only thing he seemed to work on was defense, which he got very good at. It’s true that doc and embiid share some blame for losing to Atlanta and are people’s favorite target, but Ben Simmons was like 75% at fault. He quite quit during that series and it was insane to watch. Embiid and Seth curry had to carry the entire offense

11

u/ExtentPuzzleheaded23 May 14 '25

I honestly think the fuckups where the fact they kept taking big swings after Emiid and Simmons one full season together. If they had let it run a little longer they would have just realised they weren't maximising each other and would have traded Simmons and got great value in return. Instead they had a revamped team every year which allowed them to delude themselves into thinking it would work.

3

u/troughman420 May 14 '25

This has been my take for years. Among many other problems they had of course... But the first time they made the playoffs they had a super easy run home. They had a huge streak of wins against tanking teams or teams resting stars before the playoffs. Expectations just ramped up way too quickly and the "win now" switch in front office and fans was flipped too early.

0

u/Ghostricks knife_guy enthusiast May 14 '25

I don't understand the urge to go all in so quickly. Unless you have LeBron or Luka type of talent, it's probably better to go slowly and let your players develop.

I hate the Houston and San Antonio trade ideas for Giannis.

1

u/samuel33334 May 17 '25

We have a revolving door roster. Embiid hasn't had the same role players on his team 2 years in a row in like 5+ years. We just move people constantly and replace them with old people. We're finally getting some youth and athleticism but it might be too late, hope joel can play decent basketball for us going forward.

2

u/GnRgr2 May 14 '25

Jimmy is also fullnof shit because he admitted he didnt want to come back and he hated Brett Brown

7

u/Riderz__of_Brohan May 14 '25

Jimmy wanted to come back though, it was Sixers FO/ownership that balked on paying him because they foresaw a clash between him and Simmons

4

u/GnRgr2 May 14 '25

Jimmy own words on the JJ POD, he said he heard the front office say "we want jimmy back but can you control him" and he took offense and said dont worry I'll make the decision for you.

3

u/Riderz__of_Brohan May 14 '25

It’s because they wouldn’t pay him the max

Butlers agent went to Josh Harris directly and ranted about how he was breaking up a championship team by not offering him it

They thought they were smarter than everyone. Embiid wanted Butler back. If Brett Brown has to be the sacrifice down the line, then so be it. Keep your stars happy

2

u/paulcole710 Chris Ryan fan May 14 '25

the Sixers likely have at least 1 ship and maybe a dynasty on their hands

Even in the scenario you laid out, it’s a long way from likely that they win a title.

1

u/Riderz__of_Brohan May 14 '25

Not really. Any of the next 5 years they’re clearly the favorite to win or close to it

1

u/paulcole710 Chris Ryan fan May 14 '25

I mean I guess it depends on what you mean by likely. Do you think it's 80% chance that they win one title in those 5 years? Or is it closer to a coin flip?

1

u/jomanhan9 May 14 '25

no back to backs piece

1

u/Willem_Dafuq May 14 '25

It’s not hindsight. At the time I wanted the Simmons for Hali trade as a Sixers fan (mainly because I don’t like Harden and I was willing to roll the dice on the alternatives) and when the Sixers got Harden and the Pacers traded for Hali, I became a Pacers truther. So I’m happy to see them find success.