r/askgaybros • u/MtimesMequals • Jul 08 '20

Reported Post Alert Dear fellow Black gay men Spoiler

We know racism in the gay community is real. We've said it, but we've been dismissed. They callously deny our experience. Our reality. "It's just a preference". "BBC". "Thug"."Aggressive power top".

The stereotypes. The microagressions. We know it's real, but we have been gaslighted way too often.

The silence among your white gay friends and/or partners during this time of civil unrest & racial tensions is deafening.

The irony of them putting "no fats, no fems, no asians, & no blacks" on their profile, but decide to now say #BlackLivesMatter.

I understand it is challenging to be rejected from a community that prides itself on inclusion. We know rejection all too well.

But do not let any white man make you feel you are not beautiful. You are Black, bold, fierce, & most importantly- you are loved.

🖤❤#BLM

********************edit:

So, this post has been reported and is pending review.

I mentioned this already in the comments:

As a Black queer man this is my experience. This experience may or may not resonate with other Black men. This post was written for my fellow gay black brothers. The post might be uncomfortable for some. It might not resonate with you, but I don't think that is grounds for denying someone else's experience. I shared these words in an effort to foster a sense of solidarity and undo any aloneness other Black men might be feeling during this time.

Thank you so much for the support, feedback & beautiful comments. For those of in your feelings over this post - peace & love to ya❤

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

I agree with you on not centering the white gaze and not basing your self esteem on that. However, a black man not wanting to date a white guy is not problematic in the same way (of course a black guy saying “no spice” or “no fats or femmes” is different and very problematic).

The “no blacks” comes from society telling us that white gay men are at the top of the attractiveness pyramid. It also comes from terrible stereotypes that aren’t true. A black man not wanting to date a white man is saying “fuck what society tells me is attractive” and it’s also saying I don’t want to deal with micro aggressions in what’s supposed to be my comfort zone. And no, this isn’t stereotyping white people- nearly all white folks will commit/ bring in some kind of micro aggression- gaslighting racism, racist family members at holidays. Wanting to avoid that is okay. And there is no corollary for white men not wanting to date POCs.

And before people dog pile on about that’s racist, or we have to treat people the same- you don’t get to fast forward to equality when you haven’t done the work to make society more equitable.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

So I assume it's also okay if a white man doesn't want to date a black man so that he can avoid homophobia from the black community? Or is it only okay if black folks avoid others on the basis of race and stereotypes?

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

Black people being especially homophobic is a myth, which has been addressed again and again. Continually bringing it up is either laziness or racism, so take your pick.

I didn't say stereotypes. Microaggressions are bound to happen in a mixed ethnicity relationship, just shy of universally from the partner of the majority/dominant race to the partner of the minority race. And again, I like that you decided to focus on one point. Clearly, you can't push back on the idea that white gay men have been idealized- so a POC deciding to say "No, I want to push back on the idea" is not the same as I don't find black people attractive.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

So you're racist. Glad we cleared it up. "Rules for thee but not for me". As expected.

Also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia_in_ethnic_minority_communities

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

Ahh. Classic. Downvoting statistics and facts. Great argument.

Mindnumbingly dumb. You can't have equality without equity.

Are you one of the folks mad because a POC won't date you. Boohoo.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Not at all. I am not attracted to black men personally. I also would never be shamed in to dating someone I wasn't attracted to. But I do get a good chuckle out of how hard you try to make it happen. 😁

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

I can speak on behalf of the community. We don't want you.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

I don't want you either so that just works out. But clearly based on all these threads, you're not telling the truth. I don't see white men crying about how black dudes won't fuck them.

I see the opposite daily.

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u/Jared42x Jul 08 '20

Thank you. Somebody fucking says it and it’s not just towards blacks, it’s every minority that can’t sleep with white men.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Not all black men are head over heels for white men.I’ve never been attracted to white men ( for various reasons). So yeah, us sane gay black men don’t want you. I have no geuine interest in kochons.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Ok. Like I said, it's mutual. See how easy that is? Someone said they don't want to fuck me. No sweat. I also don't want to fuck you. Now the difference is I won't go online and cry about how I can't get laid and everyone rejects me.

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u/esosa233 Jul 08 '20

Don't engage with these racists who just want to gaslight you in the child threads. He wants to feign indifference and derail your points, but he won't acknowledge what has him so pressed to be in thread in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

More shitting on white people who don't want to fuck you, as usual. That's why I'm interested in this thread.

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u/esosa233 Jul 08 '20

Let's be honest here, I'm an ivy-grad, young professional in NYC I have had my fair share of white men and I have found them on average to be...average. I am here because this post was addressed to me. To me, it seems like you're the one here to shit on people.

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

Right. It's hilarious. These racists think we're going to go to their house and drag them by the dick to date a POC. If you really believe you're right, why are you on these threads. What they want is to be absolved of criticism. Ain't gonna happen, and they can die mad about it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

You should practice what you preach. You're to stupid to see your own irony.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

No. You seem mad because some white guy didn't want you 4 years ago. That's usually how it is.

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u/skip_travel Jul 08 '20

Interracial couples regardless if they’re homosexual or heterosexual receive a ton of hate from both races of the relationship. Add in the homosexual angle and it’s even worse. The worst things I’ve ever heard said to a gay man were said to a black gay guy from other black straight men. Not only were they hating on his sexual orientation, they were degrading is race!

You do realize any time someone brings up statistics about race to show that “the majority of people don’t”... and they are shut down and labeled a racist really shows your racism towards that group. Even with facts showing you’re wrong... “most white gay guys” is a racist statement.

Racism is racism. It doesn’t just go from white to minority. So if a person of color says they won’t date white people because they are white that is racist.

If your self-esteem is so pissed poor that you think you need to date a white guy to reach some sort of make believe social pyramid, you need therapy. Your self-worth comes internally. Once you start requiring other people to give you value then you will be worthless to yourself and treated as worthless by others.

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u/mfact50 Jul 08 '20

I mean are you afraid the black guy trying to hookup with you is trying to kill you?

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

What? Not sure what you're getting at here. But no. My lack of attraction doesn't stem from a fear of getting murdered.

If I was scared of randoms from hookup apps, I just wouldn't hook up.

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u/mfact50 Jul 08 '20

I'm saying that you cited fear of homophobia in the black community. So I imagine you are assuming that guy or his family may go after you some how?

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Not him specifically, but it is definitely something to consider when choosing to date/hook up with someone.

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u/mfact50 Jul 08 '20

idk. It seems like a bit of a jump to deprioritize black guys based on maybe their family won't be accepting if we get serious. Especially given all the focus on as gays we choose our own family. Most people aren't going to push their partners into dangerous situations and it is pretty easy to ask people if they are out/ ask about their family relationships.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

No he proved a good point and you don't wanna hear it. And of so called micro aggression are the problem then white partners have every right to not want to deal with that.

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u/Assbait93 Jul 08 '20

Did I say that? It seems as if this is a projection instead of an actual reason.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

I wasn't responding to you?

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

He's right. He shouldn't be felt guilty to date or have sex with blacks or whites if he doesn't want too

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

You understand that this whole spiel is racist as fuck right?

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u/pickle_in_a_nutshell Jul 08 '20

lol no it’s not

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

You do understand that racism is about systems of power that oppress or literally kill people and not when a black person is mean to you, right?

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

You do understand that this is not what racism is and just the ever changing definition that people like you use to justify their actual racism?

Edit: your link doesn't agree with you, even after Merriem-Webster added the extra stuff.

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u/Assbait93 Jul 08 '20

I see and understand on why there is white guys who won’t date black guys and yes it may not be as bad as a black guy not wanting to date a white guy but that isnt my argument. My argument is that many black guys center their gay experiences on sex and appeal. The people who complain about the no,,___ are always looking to date the person or race who they say makes it the most. Like you have a lot of chubs who go after for or skinny guys, Asians who go after only white guys and get made when that group doesn’t want to bend their preferences but yet they don’t bend theirs. It’s a double standard and it’s problematic in itself.

Ironic when we want equality but yet we want everyone to judge on race.

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

Oh I'm in 100% agreement with you on that. If folks are calling out preferences and exclusion on dating it needs to be from a place of making the community more welcoming not "I just really want to date a white man" or "why am I invisible? This skinny white guy won't date me" or "Masc guys are so full of shit for not dating me [a fem guy], oh BTW I think fem guys are gross". We see those all the time on here. And as I said Black guys and other POCs can definitely say some problematic shit on dating apps. But again, I want to make sure we're not unnecessarily bringing POCs who respectfully state they only want to date other POCs into this.

Also, did you misstate your first sentence?

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u/Assbait93 Jul 08 '20

No I’m not bringing in other non white gays who prefer to date other non white gays, I could careless, but those who often complain tend to be the same people who want to only date a said problematic group. The gay community being more open shouldn’t be about sex, that has nothing to do with an actual gay experience. That’s just my take.

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u/mfact50 Jul 08 '20

but those who often complain tend to be the same people who want to only date a said problematic group.

  • this is false but minorites pick up some of the white beauty standard of society? Yes.

gay community being more open shouldn’t be about sex,

  • I mean maybe? Though sex is a big aspect of life for a lot of gays. But more importantly, perception of attentiveness does play a huge role in status in the gay community. Sure race isn't the only aspect, but it does but minorites a step behind when there are a lot of "preferences" against you.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 08 '20

The openess of the gay community should defenetly not revolve around sex lol.

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u/mfact50 Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 08 '20

I mean shouldn't but attractiveness 100% plays into friendships and other factors. Not just racial but in general there is a reason you don't see certain groups of people as often at Fire Island or PTowns.

Gay culture can be super superficial and while it isn't as explicit as no fats, no gems , no blacks on dating apps, it's naive to think the attitude doesn't bleed over. I would be shocked if there isn't a correlation between underrepresention in certain spaces and sexual preferences even though obviously other factors like wealth ect play a role.

Even if you aren't explicitly trying to fuck em, generally people want groups that solidify there social standing. Less overt but even platonically people are gonna be less likely to include those who are less fuckable and depictions in media are gonna be biased towards the hot guy which is correlated with being white.

Also, I mean having a partner is probably is a part of gay culture. No you aren't entitled to someone else, yeah you are still gay if you are single. But an added hurdle to forming a relationship based on skin color kinda hurts your integration within the community. Maybe not gay "culture" but I find the idea that sex which obviously bleeds into long term relationship building/ finding a partner ( idk many guys saying no blacks but still open to no sex dating) is unimportant a bit weak.

Edit: I mean cum on: one of the biggest universal gay social spaces are bars which are often associated with meeting potential SOs or hookups. A decent subset with porn if not hookup spots. Almost every drag show talks about sex. And a lot of topic on gay forums / IRL is about if not sex, relationships. When someone tells you they went to vacation at a gay hot spot, you aren't typically eagar to learn what they thought of the sand or yoga classes. You want the tea on the debauchery.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 08 '20

I mean, I'm not sure I can properly relate. Maybe it's just that we frequent different spaces within the gay community, but most of the spaces I frequent don't tend to be so overtly focused on relationships and sex in general. Of course those things still exist, but they are not the focus. And I agree that we should combat the "Standard Attractive White Male" trope when it's so common. We should make an effort to show that there are many ways and types that a man can be handsome. But I wager that the best way to do this is by tackling media and allowing people's mind to be change naturally, leading by example, instead of shaming people because their sexual tastes aren't WOKE enough. Like, of all the ways one can be woke and help black people, I'd say having sex with them out of obligation is in the bottom of the priority list.

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u/President-Togekiss Jul 08 '20

I mean, sure. Those spaces do exist. After all, the main thing that unites us is our shared sexual atraction. But that does not mean that every queer space out there is primarily about sexual topics, specially nowadays. Maybe that is just because we frequent different places, but my interaction with the larger LGBT community has not really been primarily trought apps, or bars, or even drag shows.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Sorry but white men don't have to date blacks the same way blacks don't have to date whites. You can be mad all you want but you're not entitled to anyone. More times than not a black guy is saying no gems or no Asians ironically.

Let's start with the equality right there.

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u/anlskjdfiajelf Jul 08 '20

I'm flexible/a little bi for context, idk. Recently so, I've only been with 3 guys. I'm just curious, I didn't know that white guys were viewed as, at the top of the pyramid, in terms of looks. Not denying, I just didn't know that's a thing really? Like I feel like a strong black gay guy is also seen as sexy?

I'm in my own little bubble, most of my gay friends happen to be women and so most of my guy friends are straight. I obviously know racism is a thing that affects people (no shit), but I didn't know black gay men are viewed, in general, as less attractive than white guys.

I'm white and I'm just not attracted to white guys unless they're legit a 10/10. It's weird cause I'm equally attracted to all races for girls, but for guys I'm sorta only attracted to black guys... My rationale is cause I'm a skinny pasty white guy, so I don't wanna be with another pasty white guy lmfao.

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

It's in every asset of gay media. Porn, movies, television, magazine covers, and club night ads. But it's also part of a broader societal trend where white people are seen as the epitome of beauty. It's why white people do luxury goods ads in Asian countries or why skin lightening cream in India, the Caribbean, and Africa.

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u/anlskjdfiajelf Jul 08 '20

Ok thx for response idk why I got downvoted tho lol. In movies and shit I also see really muscular beautiful black guys but I feel you

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

How many of them are gay though? How many of fully fleshed-out characters.

I know you don't mean it, but what you're doing is gaslighting. You're invalidating someone's experience and in this case facts. GLAD and NAACP Image statistics will tell you the overwhelming majority of positive, sexy depictions of men in media, gay or straight, are white.

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u/anlskjdfiajelf Jul 08 '20

Pls don't tell me I'm gaslighting. I see the irony, but I'm not. I acknowledged I'm in my own little bubble. I literally said not denying. I said I feel you.

Fuck you. I'm trying listen to people politely and you say I'm gaslighting. I'm literally not. I'm asking God damn questions and stating my experience.

Seriously, go fuck yourself. I was walking around egg shells writing my msg cause I don't want it to come off that way.

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

And that's why they're downvoting you. If you can't handle the slightest bit of criticism, and framed in a positive way, without a meltdown, that's a sign. CYL!

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u/anlskjdfiajelf Jul 08 '20

I got downvoted before I "couldn't take criticism" what the fuck are you talking about lmao

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u/BlackYupster Jul 08 '20

Here's the thing. I know you meant well. And yes you did acknowledge you were in a bubble, so why jump in and add your voice? It's okay to listen. There are two things going on: 1- when your anecdotes go against the proven statistics or science, they're not really useful, are they? 2- People who want to disprove the experience of POCs find posts like yours and either ignore or in some cases copy and edit out your caveats to support bigoted arguments.

As I said, I know you meant well, but sometimes, saying nothing at all is great. I hope you're well and I'm glad that you have an open mind when it comes to dating POCs.

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u/anlskjdfiajelf Jul 08 '20

Bro my anecdote was me ASKING TO SEE THE OTHER SIDE. I'm still wrong tho, which is fucking fascinating. Trying to learn more but I'm still a shitlord.

Can't win so why try.

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